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#400098 - 06/11/12 04:46 AM Gay Men Connecting
1lifenow Offline


Registered: 03/07/11
Posts: 392
Loc: west coast
Its funny, I have not been in the gay world very long. Its remarkable to come to this world so late in the game, I am 50+, but what i see is not so different from what many of us survivors experience.
Gay men:
- have trouble with expressing their needs then get frustrated and over react. I have seen the elton john video and i remember freddie mercury almost kicking a roady at a queen concert.
- are painfully insecure and project that onto situations when things dont go as they wish
- hide their feelings just to get along in fear of losing a guy
- allow themselves to be taken advantage of for the sake of contact
- want connectedness so bad they often resort to anonymous sex confusing sex for real intimacy, just to get that sense of being held met
- wall themselves away rather than look at what they can do to change their situation. "I cant meet the right guy, why bother? They will just let me down anyway"

Its interesting and this is merely observational , these are many of the same feelings survivors experience whether str8 or gay. I sometimes think that is why its even harder on gay men who have been abused. I dont know what the stat is, but I suspect its even higher. Likely about 1 in 4 like women. Again completely unscientifically , i was at a dinner party, and i sure as hell did not bring it up , but the issue did. Of 12 guys, 3 had been abused.

So , I think it's more common in the gay world and I think its more difficult for gay survivors do transcend both the abuse effects and just the tangled mess that is both the gay world and that incessant music. Both have a lot of grinding but too few words.


Edited by 1lifenow (06/11/12 04:52 AM)
_________________________
The need for love lies at the very foundation of human existence. Dalai Lama

WoR Barrie 2011

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#400256 - 06/12/12 07:06 PM Re: Gay Men Connecting [Re: 1lifenow]
peculiarstar Offline


Registered: 11/28/10
Posts: 14
Loc: Stuart, Florida USA
It is interesting that you define Mercury as homosexual. Many overlook that he had an open relationship with a woman for years and years.

Anyway, I've been in and out of the gay community since college (20 years ago). Like you I've come across quite a few who were sexually and physically abused (mostly physical/mental stuff). There's a lot of guilt with gay men. I find the opposite with lesbians. There's a great deal of hostitliy there - especially towards men - maybe for the same reason. My sister is gay, and she's offended by just about anything remotely sexist. She holds men in such low esteem, I find it unpleasant to be around her.

Yes, there seems to be a veneer of "gayness" around male homosexuals that make them look shallow where really there is - lake you said - a mess.

About 15 years ago my therapist gave me an article on a socialogical reason for male homosexuality. The study found that a sizeable (I do not remember the numbers) amount of gay man are the youngest male in a family with mulitiple male children. It's a weak link/pecking order/runt/momma's boy situation. Four gay men that I know fairly well fit this description - and I don't live in the gay community anymore.

I found after years of being gay (sounds funny doesn't it) that I was reenacting my abuse. I let anyone and everyone do what they wanted with me. If they got off that's all that matterd. I didn't or hadn't found anyone I wanted for more than sex or friendship, never both.

The straight life isn't much better because when you tell your partner you've had same sex relationships they pretty much run away. I tried hanging with the neurotic bixeual folks, but nobody will have anything to do with them. They are sexy in the movies but the reality is much different.

I'm pretty much a neuter now because I'm unable to have a relationship that does not end up somewhere south of hell. I understand what you are saying - I had a lot of fun/drama when I lived in D.C. back in the late 80s'early 90s. I consider myself extemely fortunate that I'm not HIV+. Matter of fact, it's an fn miracle that I've never had any STDs.

There's a tremendous amount of guilt in both groups.

Peace.

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#400269 - 06/12/12 09:27 PM Re: Gay Men Connecting [Re: 1lifenow]
prisonerID Offline
Greeter Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/17/08
Posts: 1247
Loc: Oklahoma
Weak link? He said that? Really? Oh my.



_________________________
Broad statements often miss their true mark.

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#400280 - 06/12/12 10:52 PM Re: Gay Men Connecting [Re: prisonerID]
nevragan Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/22/08
Posts: 907
Loc: NC
After reading this, I really don't see how one group of people can be weak because of their orientation. To say that gay men are weak because of their orientation is off mark. I have met guys that are not weak but actually stronger than their straight counterparts. Same with women that claim to be lesbian. Two women I know are very much strong but both are of different orientation so that really blows the theory out the window saying people that aren't straight are weak. This seems to go along the deal with labels in my mind. Labels are too limiting and trying to put one inside a box when in reality none of us are truely 100% exactly that label. If it were me, I'd run the other way if that T gave me that advice. Sounds like a skewed view there. Could be wrong on this but that's my take.

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#400337 - 06/13/12 12:15 PM Re: Gay Men Connecting [Re: peculiarstar]
prisonerID Offline
Greeter Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/17/08
Posts: 1247
Loc: Oklahoma
So for clarification's sake...

Your therapist was saying that if enough negative variables are in place a person could turn out to be gay?

I find this to be a very disturbing thought to present to a client. Am I missing something here?


Daryl
_________________________
Broad statements often miss their true mark.

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#400423 - 06/14/12 01:50 PM Re: Gay Men Connecting [Re: peculiarstar]
bodyguard8367 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/16/12
Posts: 1159
Loc: ""
""


Edited by bodyguard8367 (02/26/14 06:34 PM)
Edit Reason: SILENCED

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#400515 - 06/15/12 03:19 PM Re: Gay Men Connecting [Re: 1lifenow]
lukehorace Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/13/10
Posts: 8
Loc: Michigan
There are more than a few guys here who have tried to live gay lives but who aren't gay--a result of their CSA. It takes time for us to learn who we are, what we want, how to love actively and reciprocally. It's very exciting for me when someone who's been told they are gay (with the implicit message that they deserved the abuse), and aren't really gay, come out as straight. A friend did that with me years ago and I cried tears of joy for him.

But it's also important to remember that even as a gay man your perception of our "community" is going to be affected by your history and circumstances. I, for instance, have had the wonder of living in a gay community that was vibrant, active, supportive, compassionate, loving, and hilarious. There are way more than 50 shades of gay, just like with straight people.

If you are gay and having trouble with the perceived "gay community," it might help to realize that there isn't a monolithic gay community anywhere. There are many communities variously constituted. If you live in an urban area you can find gay senior groups, gay square dancing (absolutely saved my life after my partner died 20 years ago), any number of volunteer situations where gay people are active, gay-supportive churches.

Personals and dating apps are very tricky. I met my partner on Match.com. If you want a partner, and someone age appropriate, GRNDR is going to end up depressing the hell out of you!

If you're hanging out with people with something you can call a "veneer" then, really, find new people to hang out with!

Gayness is a genetic component and a hormonal component due to conditions during pregnancy. It is not caused by upbringing! This is science, not conjecture.

Keep searching for the people who make you feel good about yourself. You'll feel good about them, too. Sometimes it's as hard to make friends as to find a life partner. But it's a worthy endeavor, and life isn't much without friends.

Remember to think kind thoughts about yourself today.
_________________________
Lukehorace

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#400641 - 06/17/12 12:11 AM * [Re: 1lifenow]
Smalltown80sBoy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/25/12
Posts: 2217
*


Edited by Smalltown80sBoy (04/28/13 05:54 PM)

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#400683 - 06/17/12 11:58 AM Re: Gay Men Connecting [Re: Smalltown80sBoy]
jdsrip Offline


Registered: 06/07/12
Posts: 8
Thanks for sharing. I like the affirmation that the abuse only makes it more difficult to accept one's minority sexuality. There are so many versions on this. And research shows no signs of being able to figure it out. But I identified as bi around the age of 5 despite what eventually came down the pike.

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#400758 - 06/18/12 01:47 PM Re: Gay Men Connecting [Re: 1lifenow]
bodyguard8367 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/16/12
Posts: 1159
Loc: ""
""


Edited by bodyguard8367 (02/26/14 06:42 PM)
Edit Reason: SILENCED

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#402475 - 07/03/12 01:06 PM Re: Gay Men Connecting [Re: 1lifenow]
peculiarstar Offline


Registered: 11/28/10
Posts: 14
Loc: Stuart, Florida USA
My post was about personal observations. They are mine, not yours, and there's no reason to defend your sexual preference if you are comfortable with it.

It is not my opinion that male homosexuals are weak. I know ex-Marines that are homosexuals. I was merely paraphrasing my memory of the study. I've spent a lot of time and energy studying why I'm attracted to both genders. The study is one of a plethora of social-scientific investigations on the origins of homosexuality. I brought it up in the context of the original post.

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#402482 - 07/03/12 02:14 PM Re: Gay Men Connecting [Re: 1lifenow]
prisonerID Offline
Greeter Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/17/08
Posts: 1247
Loc: Oklahoma
No defense of anything from me here. Just found it odd a therapist would use that. That is the only thing you wrote I was referring to at the time.

Daryl
_________________________
Broad statements often miss their true mark.

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#405940 - 08/05/12 09:42 PM Re: Gay Men Connecting [Re: 1lifenow]
Lancer Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/13/12
Posts: 901
Loc: Florida
My 2 on this interesting discussion. Same age as you, 1life...and similar observations. What do you think of this:

A lot of the characteristics you describe are quite similar to those of teenagers who, by definition, haven't fully developed social skills. If I can add another, the obsession with physical appearance.

My take is that, often having been forced to hide, even from parents who might have helped their social development, and having few positive, supportive role models - which is finally changing, thankgawd - many younger (some older) gay men enter the gay world without the skills their straight brothers developed naturally in every day contacts. So, the adolescent behavior you describe isn't surprising.

Nor is it surprising therefore that dealing with our brothers - even at our advanced age - is often more like dealing with a bunch of high schoolers, rife with insecurities and defense mechanisms.

Now let's add the influences of drugs and alcohol. Hell, you've been in a bar where there's a drunk or two or three who engage in vicious, catty attacks for amusement, constantly trying to top each other for the "cleverest" rejoinder. Anyone in earshot is a target.

It's like Hell's Romper Room.

Well, I can avoid those situations, walk away, or simply be the adult in the room.

So, too, you might consider that a lifetime of "straight" socialization will naturally color your perceptions. Gay culture is...well, gay! I have gay friends who live in areas not nearly as queer as where I live. They can't deal with it being "so gay" here...but these are guys who were in straight relationships at one time, too. For me, I fucking revel in the freedom to live somewhere I can be completely myself anytime, anywhere instead of being "straight acting" for someone else's prejudices. If that includes camping in the produce section - no, not with tents, shame on your gay self - terrific.

Lest I sound TOO serious, our particular brand of humor is really, REALLY good:

A gay couple in church is watching the Catholic processional, elegant flowing robes, incense on the chain, etc. One says to the other, "Shouldn't someone tell her that her purse is on fire?"


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#405942 - 08/05/12 10:04 PM Re: Gay Men Connecting [Re: 1lifenow]
Lancer Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/13/12
Posts: 901
Loc: Florida
Another thot:

Depending on your location, lots of healthier non-bar activities. Belonged to a local gay athletic group for years (aerobics, running, baseball, bowling, etc.). And gay networking groups. Great fun and friendships.

The clubs/music were fun when I was a "kid"...we're talking Donna Summer. Not a kid any more. Hell, no, of course you don't like the kids' music. Go somewhere else! Have a realtor friend our age who tries to act and dress like a 20-something...doesn't have the body for it and looks ridiculous. And if you're going to color your hair, at least do it tastefully, like ME! ;-)

The "kids" are amusing to watch sometimes, but the turn-off is that they're kids, unresolved baggage and all (see Pattinson/Stewart mess). Put another way, I find myself thinking, "yes, you're pretty and...?" Last thing I want to be is "Daddy". I've got my own problems ;-)

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