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#399667 - 06/07/12 11:27 AM Almost at the end of my rope
patientlywaiting Offline


Registered: 06/07/12
Posts: 16
Loc: New York
I'm hoping that some one here has had a similar experience and can give me advice, or a survivor has a different way of looking at the situation and can explain it to me.

I've been with my partner a little over 4 years. When we were about 2 1/2 years into our relationship, I brought up the topic of marriage. I expressed my desire to want to marry him and he started having anxiety issues and lashing out at me whenever I brought up the topic. He would go into these uncontrollable fits of anger, during which he would express feelings of worthlessness. I couldn't understand it and asked that he see someone about anger management. This led to more stress since he is without health insurance.

6 months after this, he went to the local health clinic for help with anxiety. He started seeing a social worker, and that's when he decided to reveal that to her that he a CSA survivor. He was 25 when he revealed this and it happened when he was around 7 or 8 at the hands of a college-aged male neighbor. The social worker was the first person he had ever told, followed by me. He went through 6 weeks of therapy (including EMDR) with her, and that's when his "allotted" time was up. Now he can deal with the memories without the amount of anxiety and emotions that it once brought about.

Now he's going to a local non-profit that helps helps survivors of rape, incest, and CSA. I'm hoping that this will help him out, but I'm starting to grow weary of hearing him tell me that he loves me, but he's not ready to commit to marriage until he's "right with himself." I want what's best for me, and for him, but I worry that he's never going to want to get married. I gave him my boundaries, which were that I will not stay in a relationship that has no promise of a resulting marriage. I also told him that I want him to seriously think about us getting married and we'll talk about it at the end of the summer. I feel strongly about holding my bottom line, but I worry about his well being if I do so. Will he be ok if the only person he's trusted enough to tell about the CSA leaves him? I'm so confused...

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#399674 - 06/07/12 12:39 PM Re: Almost at the end of my rope [Re: patientlywaiting]
GoodHope Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/05/11
Posts: 413
I'm biased, but I LIKE that he doesn't want to mArry until he can manage the fallout from his childhood. If he says and behaves committed, why the urgency for the marriage. Do you feel societal pressure? Is there an internal clock you have that you want him to adhere to? I ask because I felt that way w my husband. I did not know of his abuse until 7 years into our marriage. I wish for him the luxury of concentrating primarily on his healing. As a married man w three children, it is hell on him. Examine why getting married soon is so important to you. If you fear your future husband is not committed--commitment is not found on the paper it's found in the heart.
_________________________
Wife of a survivor

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#399683 - 06/07/12 04:00 PM Re: Almost at the end of my rope [Re: patientlywaiting]
patientlywaiting Offline


Registered: 06/07/12
Posts: 16
Loc: New York
No societal pressure, and he does act committed. Until I met my partner, I did not believe in marriage. I come from a home with a happy, successful marriage (as does he), but I simply did not understand the desire to want to "settle down" and spend your life with one person. I now understand the desire to want to do this when you've found the right person. It's trying for me because he's said that he's pretty certain that he wants to marry me someday, but won't give me a timeline. It seems like when I ask him about it, he either digs his heels in and doesn't want to discuss or consider it and we end up backtracking instead of moving forward with our relationship.

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#399691 - 06/07/12 06:27 PM Re: Almost at the end of my rope [Re: patientlywaiting]
GoodHope Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/05/11
Posts: 413
Listen to him. Listen to me. Let it ride for now. He's not ready. It doesn't matter the reason. If he is "the one" he will be a year from now. He says he is committed. You say he acts cOmitted. That's all he can give. If he is using the the time to work on his healing, back off and let him do it. It's a gift for both of you. It gives you a much better shot at a healthy, long marriage. If you come to the place where you aren't willing to wait on him any longer, tread lightly when you leave. I didn't know it then because my husband seems to have it together and seems self confident, but I triggered a fear of abandonment when I broke up w him. I was not trying to manipulate him but it wasn't working for me without the legal commitment so I walked. If I knew then that he was a survivor and what that entailed I would have handled it more delicately. He's giving you a gift so precious you can't see it. He wants to be whole for you! Marriage is so much harder when one or both are not whole. Take the time to work on you, enjoy you, pursue you. If its right, it will be ok in the end.
_________________________
Wife of a survivor

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#399693 - 06/07/12 07:03 PM Re: Almost at the end of my rope [Re: patientlywaiting]
Esposa Offline
F&F Greeter
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/19/11
Posts: 675
Loc: NJ
Listen to me too.... CSA aside, don't marry someone who isn't ready to be married for whatever reason. Why do women marry men they need to push to the alter?

Now add back the CSA, this man is handing you a gift that most of us wives WISH we had been given.

I agree with GH, do YOU. Figure yourself out. Read GETTING THE LOVE YOU WANT and know EXACTLY why you are drawn to this man and what your own goals will be within the relationship. You need only read our posts to see the misery you have escaped by having someone who revealed his issues and knows that he needs to be stable in order to offer you the commitment you deserve.

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#399773 - 06/08/12 09:00 AM Re: Almost at the end of my rope [Re: patientlywaiting]
herowannabe Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/01/11
Posts: 386
Loc: USA
I concur! The only one you can control is you. If your boundaries are being bent too much, then move on. If you two are meant to be, it'll be, and it will be healthy for you both! You aren't wrong to feel as you do; you have rights, too! Moving on doesn't have to mean you abandon him! You can still support him with out feeling that you are being strung along and compromised
_________________________


For I know the plans I have made for you. Plans to give you a future and a hope. Jeremiah 29:11


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#399861 - 06/09/12 01:21 AM Re: Almost at the end of my rope [Re: patientlywaiting]
Anomalous Offline
Greeter Coordinator
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 03/07/10
Posts: 1339
Hi PatientlyWaiting,

I think the advice you have been given is very good and sound advice.

What is the rush?

Why do you have an arbitrary timeline?

If the love you have for each other is as true and as strong as you say it is, the love will always be there. A quick trip to the alter and a piece of paper isn't going to make the relationship.

It is what is in your hearts that matters.

The man you love is dealing with a lot of trauma and turmoil right now. As the others have said, he is giving you a gift by having revealed to you, and trusted you, with the most terrible secret and pain he has had in his life.

Out of love and respect he told you that which he has never told another.

Respect his decision to want to heal before he marries you.

Whether you are married or in a committed relationship, his healing journey is going to impact you; it is just the reality of the situation. It is advisable for you to get your own therapist, preferably one who specializes in trauma and / or sexual abuse.

You neither want, nor need, a therapist who specializes in relationships/ marriage!! That is the wrong kind of therapist for you to see.

For help in finding a therapist please read the Consumers Guide to Therapist Shopping. Psychology Today has listings for all states and counties. You can choose the type of therapist you are seeking as well as the area(s) to which you are willng to travel.

Also, there are many books written for the partners of abused males. I am certian others will share titles they have found useful. You can find these titles, and others here at the bookstore.

Digging in your heals and demanding an answer in a few months will be to the detriment of your relationship.

Rather than being angry because he cannot "give you the date" yet, take this time to go to therapy and to learn about trauma and sexual abuse.

Dealing with this stuff is not easy, not for the survivor, and certainly not for the person who loves him. But it can and does get better. A lot of energy and committment is required to achieve the desired results.

One of the things you need to do is self care. You need to eat well, exercise and do things that are not trauma related. You need to have a support system that does not focus on the issues. You also need to have activities that you can do independent of your partner.

You have all of us here. If you have not found it yet, there is also a chat room (aka: the lounge) which includes a room just for friends and family.





Anomalous
_________________________
Acceptance on someone else's terms is worse than rejection.

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#399896 - 06/09/12 11:20 AM Re: Almost at the end of my rope [Re: patientlywaiting]
patientlywaiting Offline


Registered: 06/07/12
Posts: 16
Loc: New York
Thank you all for your advice. I have read books, specifically, Aliies in Healing and When a Man You Love was Abused. These both have helped me to understand a bit of what he's dealing with. I didn't think it was an arbitrary time, more like if he's not ready after 4 1/2 years of being together, then he'll never be ready. I feel like it's been all about him for the past 1 1/2 years since he's started dealing with the fact that he is a survivor of CSA. When will it be about US?
I do have a therapists for just myself, which has helped some, but I guess it's a slower process than I anticipated.
I'm angry at the shithead that did this to him and that now I'm the only one who's helping him figure all this out. I didn't do anything to deserve this, and now I'm right in the middle of it with all my hopes and dreams on hold. Oh yeah, and I get to deal with him gearing his anger and insecurities toward me when he's having a hard time dealing with everything, any small conflict turns into a huge fight because he feels the need to vent in the form of an argument. Does it ever get better?

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#399899 - 06/09/12 12:41 PM Re: Almost at the end of my rope [Re: patientlywaiting]
Obi Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 1276
Loc: kansas
it does get better....

you do have to protect yourself as well, but it does get better.

there is no time table as to how long a person, who has been abused, takes to get through his recovery.

i know that can be frustrating to hear, but it's the truth...

we all process things in a way that is comfortable for us at a pace that is comfortable for us...

this i do know, if there was some magic elixer believe me when i say that all of us who have been abused would be in line to take it asap if it meant that our issues would be completely gone and we wouldn't be affected by it anymore...

sadly, no such magic elixer exists....

i've been in recovery since '06.... still going through it. i know that i still got a long ways to go.... but i'm getting better...

the start of this year i decided that i needed to start putting me first. i need to take care of me and my issues instead of always putting me on the back-burner and help everyone else out with their stuff...

i did this because i finally realized that, while i may be helping others to some degree, i wasn't taking care of me... that i still was suffering with my issues..

the last relationship i was in also was a HUGE sign to me that i really wasn't ready for that yet. i had too many issues that i know would make any relationship i had with a woman difficult and pretty much always end up in the same spot of NOT working out. my last gf knew of my abuse because i told her early on. i know she meant well, but she thought that buying me a book would instantly "cure" me... well... sorry... doesn't work that way... she kept asking if i read the book. i would say yes.. she then would say well, why are you still having these issues... i tried to explain to her that the book she gave me wasn't dealing with sexual abuse issues and that also by reading one book wasn't going to instantly fix me... it doesn't work that way.. she didn't understand.... i finally told her that i had to end the relationship because she was wanting an instant husband, which we only had dated for a few months, and that i had too many issues to deal with that i wasn't ready for marriage yet and that i didn't feel it was fair for me to make her wait for who knows how long it would take me to work through my issues.

after many tears, i think she finally somewhat understood that these issues that come from abuse run deep and cling to us tightly... they are not easily taken care of.. that it takes time..

i don't know if this helped you or not.... i'm not saying you should dump him and move on. i'm also not saying you should stay with him either... i am saying that is perhaps you can think about what your needs are.. not your wants.. your needs.... there is a difference between a want and a need...


Edited by Obi (06/09/12 12:43 PM)
_________________________
live another day. climb a little higher.

my story

my vlog

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#399907 - 06/09/12 01:36 PM Re: Almost at the end of my rope [Re: patientlywaiting]
GoodHope Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/05/11
Posts: 413
Originally Posted By: patientlywaiting
I didn't think it was an arbitrary time, more like if he's not ready after 4 1/2 years of being together, then he'll never be ready. I feel like it's been all about him for the past 1 1/2 years since he's started dealing with the fact that he is a survivor of CSA. When will it be about US?
I do have a therapists for just myself, which has helped some, but I guess it's a slower process than I anticipated.
I'm angry at the shithead that did this to him and that now I'm the only one who's helping him figure all this out. I didn't do anything to deserve this, and now I'm right in the middle of it with all my hopes and dreams on hold. Oh yeah, and I get to deal with him gearing his anger and insecurities toward me when he's having a hard time dealing with everything, any small conflict turns into a huge fight because he feels the need to vent in the form of an argument. Does it ever get better?


And marriage changes any of those circumstances how? If you having a difficult time adjusting now, you will find it just as difficult as a Mrs. (maybe moreso because you thought marriage would change those circumstances). If you ran to the JP tomorrow and got married, if he wasn't ready, he still wouldn't be ready (just married and not ready). If he is self centered at this time due to his recovery (which I don't object to, NOW, with no wife, no kids, etc is the time to be that way) he will be with you as his wife. This advice transcends CSA. It's good to remember for anyone entering a marriage. If you feel like you invested 4.5 years and now you need a "return" rethink it. Those 4.5 years are gone. GONE. Jumping into something that has so many different levels of concern is no way to redeem those 4.5 years. And know that no matter how this turns out, they weren't wasted. Hopefully you learned, you grew, you understand what it takes to make a healthy partnership and if it's meant to be, you get to share that with you current guy. And if it isn't, you'll be all the better for whomever comes after him. Best wishes.
_________________________
Wife of a survivor

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#399909 - 06/09/12 02:06 PM Re: Almost at the end of my rope [Re: patientlywaiting]
GoodHope Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/05/11
Posts: 413
Also, I read both of the books you mentioned and I couldn't help but feel like if I were in the position you describe in this thread, I could ROCK that thing. When I read the books, I was in the throes of depression knocking on the door of divorce because my husband's untreated CSA led to some pretty serious acting out.I had to build and be this support mechanism while broken into thousands of pieces myself by HIM.

If you love this man, and you want to stick this out, those books seem to me to have excellent advice and insight. it does mean subjugating your needs and wants for a time. I wrote a review about those books and participated in another thread here http://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthr...7794#Post367794 that talks about that need. I don't think I'm wrong in saying that MOST partners would want to provide what those books suggest, but it's super difficult if there are emotional wounds caused by the survivor's behavior (even his anger can cause wounds) and if you have kids and/or a job and/or anything else going on in your life, it's harder to walk out, but by not being his spouse, may be better able to build that framework he (and probably most survivors) need.
_________________________
Wife of a survivor

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#399932 - 06/09/12 07:16 PM Re: Almost at the end of my rope [Re: patientlywaiting]
lucylives Offline


Registered: 04/07/11
Posts: 357
I agree with Hope. In theory, those books are awesome. The truth is though that many of us have such huge wounds fromthe acting out behaviours that occured and thus it would be super-human to think we'd be able to follow all the suggestions.

I read that book too and it was great but I would have to be Mother Theresa, the most self-less human in the world with no needs of my own and no very deep, emotional wounds at the same time.

Unfortunately with alot of us wives here we are stuck with huge gaping wounds from the acting out, lies and betrayals and I don't think any of us human beings are capable of saying "oh u were hurt as a child. Then cheating and such is a-ok. No problem. I am here for u"

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#399942 - 06/09/12 10:12 PM Re: Almost at the end of my rope [Re: patientlywaiting]
karin4him Offline


Registered: 03/18/12
Posts: 18
Loc: Illinois
The advice you've received here is sound. My husband has just started dealing with his csa and we've been married for over 20 years. If I had only known when we got married, what I know now, our marriage would not have been as rocky and I would have strongly encouraged him to get the help he needed much sooner. After all of these years of boozing and issues, we are just beginning to heal together. So, if you truly love him give him the time he needs to heal.

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#400203 - 06/12/12 05:37 AM Re: Almost at the end of my rope [Re: patientlywaiting]
Anomalous Offline
Greeter Coordinator
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 03/07/10
Posts: 1339
Hi PatientlyWaiting,

Your fiancÚ, nor anyone, has the right to harm you.

The fact he is taking his anger out on you is unacceptable. If you decide to keep him in your life, you must set limits with him. Speaking to you in an emotionally abusive manner is no longer an option for him.

To be blunt, you need to set limits with your fiancÚ about the behavior you find acceptable and that which is unacceptable. There are consequences for unacceptable behavior. But only set limits and consequences if you are prepared to follow through with them.

These are not punishments, nor are they forms of blackmail. You are telling him, unequivocally, what you will tolerate.

He has every right to be angry, depressed, and rageful. But taking it out on you and others is not an option.

Loving him means setting limits. Hopefully he will see that he has to find constructive, rather than destructive, ways with which to deal with his pain. You are setting limits out of love.

Dealing with this stuff is not easy, not for the survivor, and certainly not for the person who loves him. But it can and does get better. A lot of energy and committment is required to achieve the desired results.

Your fiancÚ has a lot of diffuse rage for which he does not have a specific manner in which, nor a specific target at whom, to express it. His rages and arguments are defenses against the pain he feels. But he needs to express his pain in a manner that is not harmful to you, to himself, or to others.

The truth is, your fiancÚ survived the worst part. While the memories and feelings may be painful and unpleasant, they are just that -- memories and feelings, and they cannot harm him.

This is not to say the feelings, flashbacks and memories do not hurt. At times that pain is excruciating. But using rage and verbal abuse to distance himself from further pain is neither appropriate nor helpful. The only way to get the pain to stop is to do the work in therapy.

It will be a rough road for each of you, but the rewards are immeasurable.

One of the things you need to do is self care. You need to eat well, exercise and do things that are not trauma related. You need to have a support system that does not focus on trauma related issues.

If you have not found it yet, there is a chat room (aka: the lounge) which includes a room just for friends and family.

The best way to support him is to continue working with your therapist and to be healthy.




Anomalous
_________________________
Acceptance on someone else's terms is worse than rejection.

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#400204 - 06/12/12 05:43 AM Re: Almost at the end of my rope [Re: patientlywaiting]
Blessedcurse Offline


Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 93
Well, I would like to make some input since I have the experience of being at both sides of this problem. Being the one that cannot make promises and is afraid of commitment, and being the one that needs more commitment than he gets.

I think the matter of what is fair or right is pointless. When it comes to a relationship that is not the issue. The issue is how much you can compromise. Wich needs are neccesary and wich are not. Because if you compromise with needs that are neccesary you get bitter, strained, angry and tired in the relationship wich will not be good for any of you.

To me in both situations the solution has been making the requested commitment. It was not marriage but it was promising a life together. In my current relationship I'm the one in need of commitment while my partner was for two years considdering moving across the country. I waited and was patient but eventually I started noticing that I was on my way out of the relationship. I started to ajust to the possibility of not having a future together. This led to me being less interested in my partner, spending more time away, not feeling the need to tell him about stuff in my life and so on. My partner then started to feel insequre and abandoned, of course, and complained about my distancing. I explained that in a relationship (with me) you can not take more sequrity than you give. That is just how I work. I can not give stability and sequrity to someone that does'nt give it back. Not everybode funktion like me but this is how it is.

After some serious discussions he made the decision to commit and give up his plans of moving wich made me feel secure enough to re-commit as well.

So what I'm saying is that I think you need to find out your own needs and limitations and be honest about them. That is the only way and no book can tell you about that.

Sorry about my spelling, this is not my original language.

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#400437 - 06/14/12 04:55 PM Re: Almost at the end of my rope [Re: patientlywaiting]
patientlywaiting Offline


Registered: 06/07/12
Posts: 16
Loc: New York
Well, now I've gone and done it. We had a fight last night about everything. It started with him being super-lovey as I was trying to concentrate on what I was doing. I got annoyed and said "can I please finish what I'm doing first? You've been mentally gone the past 4 days and now you're having a good day so I should drop everything?" Probably not the best way to have reacted, but I can't be at his beckon call when he decides to "be there" in our relationship.

I hurt him, and I know that. However, I can't be ignored for close to a week because he's been so in his own head that we don't talk at all when he gets home from work besides the obligatory "how was your day?"

He said I don't understand what it's like for him, and that sometimes he'll be withdrawn. He compared this to me not being able to understand his inability to commit to marriage in the future in order for me to feel secure in our relationship. So, then marriage was brought up again. He tried to make me feel bad about it, saying "you know that's just a label, right?" So right now, we're letting our relationship just "be," but I told him that I don't think I'll be able to stay if he doesn't know if he'll marry me or not in the future.

I don't know if I have the strength to continue on with this relationship. I feel worn out emotionally (it's been an especially bad few weeks: he says he thinks he's in "crisis mode"). What is crisis mode?

Ultimately, I want him to get the help he deserves (and needs), but I'm not sure that my needs are aligning with his right now, and he needs to focus on his recovery. Has anyone felt like this with their partners (or exes for that matter)?

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#400439 - 06/14/12 05:24 PM Re: Almost at the end of my rope [Re: patientlywaiting]
Disappointed Offline


Registered: 08/11/09
Posts: 540
Loc: U.S.A.
Look, Patiently Waiting, it's natural for someone with issues to rationalize marriage to someone they want to stay around, by saying it's just a label. But it's not just a label. And after 4 years, the honest truth is, the honest fact is, you are using valuable time of your life waiting for him.

Every month you lose a chance to have a child. Women only get one shot a month. And as we get older, it's harder for us to bear a child.

It's not just a label. It's a difference between a thriving family and being single into old age with no one.

I recommend you find someone else. When he's further along his recover, THEN he can find someone he can devote his attention.
_________________________
Female.

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#400469 - 06/15/12 12:00 AM Re: Almost at the end of my rope [Re: patientlywaiting]
learning2luvme Offline


Registered: 06/12/12
Posts: 49
One word. LoVe. Do it for him and do it for you. It's what he wants and needs right now. I lived a double life and hid behind the masks of my career. Eventually....after 35 years of denial, hiding and bad decisions and after 20 years of marriage...I was forced to deal with it.

My wife had lots of reasons to say....I didn't sign up for this, and this isn't something you keep from your spouse...but the reality is that healing takes a long time. It was hard for her and hard for me. I've been doing EMDR therapy for a year. I still have crappy days and I have good days. I could not make the progress I have made without the uncontional support and LoVe from my wife.

What's most important is that out of all this ugliness, my relationship with my wife has only grown stronger and deeper. Her unconditional love helps me to heal. I love her more every day because she did not give up on me and she easily could have.

Your fiance needs you. Love him. Love yourself. Give him time. Out of unconditional love and ugliness....I promise something beautiful will emerge and you'll know it's time to get married and you'll enjoy a lifetime side by side. Don't rush it. Love him. He will heal and you'll have the deepest love that a traditional couple never gets the opportunity to know.

Best wishes. Hang in there. It's worth it. Don't rush into marriage...you'll know when it's the right time.

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#400488 - 06/15/12 08:25 AM Re: Almost at the end of my rope [Re: patientlywaiting]
Blessedcurse Offline


Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 93
Don't know but it sounds to me he doesn't respect your needs all that much. Ok he feels hurt when you don't emediately fall in his arms when he is interested in you after four days of isolation, but if he could put himself in your shoes only a little bit he would see that you have your own life, your own needs and priorities and he can't possibly expect you to just stand there waiting for him to come around. Seems self absorbed to me.

I too have periods of withdrawal and I feel rejected easily when I come back (the feeling och connection is so strong an wonderful) but that is my problem, not my partners. Of course he or she also has the right to need space or not be in the mood.

How is your relationship really? How much attention, care and respect is given to your needs?

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#400498 - 06/15/12 11:10 AM Re: Almost at the end of my rope [Re: patientlywaiting]
patientlywaiting Offline


Registered: 06/07/12
Posts: 16
Loc: New York
Disappointed-It's awfully presumptuous of you to assume that I want children. Our relationship has nothing to do with that. Just because I'm a female doesn't mean that I want to have children.

learning2luvme-thank you for your advice and support. He's working on getting into therapy. It's a difficult situation as he doesn't have health insurance and can't afford the up-front cost of a therapist. He's currently working with a local non-profit to get in somewhere.

Blessedcurse-at times, he is self-absorbed. I didn't immediately fall into his arms the other night and explained to him how his withdrawing over the past few weeks had an effect on me. He understood and I think that's a step in the right direction. After reading accounts of what other wives/partners/husbands have been through in their journey of recovery, I think I've been lucky. He's never cheated on me, succumb to a debilitating addiction, or been violent towards me. He's also aware that he tends to unleash his anger in my direction and is working on not reacting like this.

Overall, our relationship is good, though we've been going through some strain lately, hence why I started this topic. He does give me attention and care (he typically spends about 1/2 hour talking and cuddling with me before bed). Last night we talked and resolved the fight and issues we've been having. My therapist suggested that when he's having a good day, that I approach him and ask him what type of support he needs from me when he's having his bad days. That way we're communicating about both of our expectations when those days occur, and each others feeling aren't hurt because we've come to a mutual understanding.

I think that it's hard to not think about marriage because a good deal of my friends from college are engaged right now. I've been denying that it has an effect on me, but I think I'm now realizing that it does. And learning2luv me, you're right; I shouldn't rush. I will know when it's the right time and heck, with everything going on right now, I don't want to be married when there's so much turmoil in his life right now.

Thanks to all who have listened and given advice. It's nice to know that there's good community support at malesurvivor.

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#400499 - 06/15/12 12:05 PM Re: Almost at the end of my rope [Re: patientlywaiting]
Disappointed Offline


Registered: 08/11/09
Posts: 540
Loc: U.S.A.
I always groan when people assert they may not want children. It's short-sighted.

I have a mother and father who are elderly. I have 3 half-siblings and a sister and brother. Of the 6 of us, 3 of us make sure their needs are met. Anyone who doesn't have children is banking on either never making it to old age, or believing that when THEY get old, they won't need anyone to take care of them.

That is the most juvenile thinking I can imagine. Dad's 96, and he doesn't even remember what "doing the laundry" is, much less do any of it.

Wake up, all you childlessly inclined types.
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Female.

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#400500 - 06/15/12 12:42 PM Re: Almost at the end of my rope [Re: patientlywaiting]
prisonerID Offline
Greeter Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/17/08
Posts: 1247
Loc: Oklahoma
I am not sure that having someone take care of me in my elder years is a decent enough reason to have kids. I actually admire people who qustion having children and come to the right solution for themselves. No doubt it would be in the best interest of any possible children.

I feel the same for someone who decides to remain single in life.


Daryl
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Broad statements often miss their true mark.

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#400501 - 06/15/12 12:49 PM Re: Almost at the end of my rope [Re: patientlywaiting]
Blessedcurse Offline


Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 93
I agree with prisonerID. But I feel this is a bit OT and also I think noone has the right to an opinion about other peoples choise in this matter unless invited. Wich is not the case since the questiong in this post was about marriage, not children.

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#400505 - 06/15/12 01:22 PM Re: Almost at the end of my rope [Re: patientlywaiting]
Disappointed Offline


Registered: 08/11/09
Posts: 540
Loc: U.S.A.
Dear BC,

Maybe you're not aware, but many women want to have children, and when they wait and wait and wait for a man, it diminishes sometimes to the point of impossibility, the ability to have children for a woman.

This is part and parcel of marriage. I've known lots of girls who waited and waited, and then, the man doesn't marry them, and the women who wanted children couldn't.

So, this is part of the calculus for a woman, whether she wants to have children. If she doesn't, then she can wait on a man for a hundred years, it doesn't matter.

I consider these things, because I am a woman. Unlike Bruce Willis, I can't have kids when I'm in my late 50s.

Also, it's not off topic. She wanted to know if she should wait or not. Part of that calculation for a female is how much longer can she have children? She didn't mention if she was thinking of it or not. I"m not a mind reader. I do the best with what I have, as we all do.

D.


Edited by Disappointed (06/15/12 01:23 PM)
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#400581 - 06/16/12 09:58 AM Re: Almost at the end of my rope [Re: patientlywaiting]
GoodHope Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/05/11
Posts: 413
A couple of thoughts...a wise woman on this board pointed out that the response I was expecting from my husband is perfectly reasonable IF he were coming from a healthy emotional place. Survivors who have yet to fully address their issues are not coming from that place. Some don't even know what it looks like. Furthermore, responses of loved ones to their overtures can impact them greatly. To the in damaged psyche, a pulling back because he pulled back for a week might sting but the brain would say, well I see her point. For some survivors all they can see is rejection - and not of the moment or the behavior - but them.

Your situation until he gets along further in his therapy is pocked w tiny little minefields. While abuse is something that happened to him, the residual effect is woven into who he is. It doesn't make him bad or even damaged as a whole per se, but you both have to learn how to navigate the differences. It's neither quick nor easy. This week, I think it's worth it. (can't say for next week). Patiently, like your guy, my guy has so many wonderful qualities.

For the OT subject of children--progeny to care for you in old age seems like a selfish reason to have them and also a risk--I know people who have children that don't do this. The money spent on raising kids, no small amount, could be saved/invested to purchase reliable care.
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#400597 - 06/16/12 02:44 PM Re: Almost at the end of my rope [Re: patientlywaiting]
Disappointed Offline


Registered: 08/11/09
Posts: 540
Loc: U.S.A.
Yes, it's a risk. Everything has risk. But it's not selfish to want to have support in old age. It's simply practical to invest in your children, who then return it. From what I have heard, raising children is hard work - not exactly a "selfish" enterprise.

Or you could let the government take care of you, then the government gets to decide when it doesn't want to spend money on you anymore.




Edited by Disappointed (06/16/12 02:51 PM)
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#400605 - 06/16/12 04:12 PM Re: Almost at the end of my rope [Re: GoodHope]
patientlywaiting Offline


Registered: 06/07/12
Posts: 16
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: GoodHope

Your situation until he gets along further in his therapy is pocked w tiny little minefields. While abuse is something that happened to him, the residual effect is woven into who he is. It doesn't make him bad or even damaged as a whole per se, but you both have to learn how to navigate the differences. It's neither quick nor easy. This week, I think it's worth it. (can't say for next week). Patiently, like your guy, my guy has so many wonderful qualities.




Thank you, Good Hope. I feel like you "get" it.


Edited by patientlywaiting (06/16/12 04:13 PM)

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#400649 - 06/17/12 01:12 AM Re: Almost at the end of my rope [Re: patientlywaiting]
mpm01 Offline


Registered: 09/27/11
Posts: 85
Loc: Australia
Hi patiently waiting.. I think that Good Hope is on the mark. I am in the middle of working full time on trying to 'not' communicate unless in the "functional adult" emotional self. The moment that I enter into any interaction which is from the "wounded child" emotional state, the content and tone of what I am saying has nothing to do with what I really think, what I want to say, or what I really feel. I am just reacting as a angry belligerent child would. Often this would end up in highly abusive rage, or extremely irrational arguments. I am now able to come back after one of these arguments and say what it was what I really think... this took months of dedicated work to be able to do this. Now, as I say, I am now working on identifying the triggers as they happen, and just stop myself from participating in the communication.

A good example would have been like you saying "can I please finish what I'm doing first? You've been mentally gone the past 4 days and now you're having a good day so I should drop everything?" This would instantly trigger me into the 'wounded child' emotional state and I would be overcome with feelings of complete self deprecation and contempt, which would immediately result in me thinking like a wounded child, irrational and impulsive. It would sometimes even seem like nothing has changed, except for the things that I am saying are not what I really think... other times I would just end up in a total rage and in a total attack of my partner.

BTW, I have been with my partner for 14 years, unmarried, no children... I have only been working on my CSA for 1 year. I have provided my partner every opportunity to leave in the past 12 months, but somehow she is still with me. I am extremely grateful, she is my support and my rock, but it has been at a cost her, I have caused her much pain... but we are both holding tight to the one real positive, and that is that our relationship will be stronger and closer than it could have every been without having gone through such a monumental struggle.

It can be worth it.

Martin
_________________________
I apreciate you all being here for me and for each other...

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#402006 - 06/28/12 12:50 AM Re: Almost at the end of my rope [Re: patientlywaiting]
colours Offline


Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 23
Loc: Australia
I know it is off topic but its a part that struck a chord with me, Children.

Until recently i felt very much like men had robbed me of the ability to have children, i am nearing the age where it simply wont be possible biologically.

Upon reflection i am glad of that, as i can now see (without blaming but more of an understanding) how much my parents unhealthy relationship exposed me to unhealthy beleifs about intimacy, love, marriage and parenting. It was what it was, there is always a reason, but I am so glad that i am where i am now with no children. I need to learn about what is healthy so that my children, should i have enough time left to have any, will grow up knowing what healthy is, not thinking that unhealthy is normal, not being more comfortable with unhealthy and not quite knowing healthy when they see it or what to do with it when they have it. Unfortunately, i beleive, that to have a healthy example of relationship requires two healthy partners, will it ever be perfect?? Probably not, but i dont think healthy equates to perfect anway.

I am now starting to learn about what intimacy really means, sex i know about, am good at, i beleived that was what intimacy was.

Putting my care for myself above the care i have for others is almost like a foreign concept, i understand it, but my exposure to this lesson was watching my mother give give give and my father take take take. Watching mum compromise herself and her beleifs, perceptions, dreams and goals so that dad was happy and wouldnt leave her. Unaware as i was of this until recently - monkey see monkey do, im working on this but i have been like a little replica of my mother in this behaviour.

Healthy Behaviours are what you should be experiencing from your parents or indeed single parent, they are how we first begin to learn these life lessons, when they were unhealthy, and this is my view, I feel that we owe it to our prospective children to learn healthy behaviours prior to becoming parents. Rather than repeat the cycle.

Now in saying all that, i have done many things in the past that i didnt really have understanding for the reasons why, so lets just say my first husband and i had of had children, well i cant erase the first say 10 years of my childs life learning from me but i sure can do something about it now, and i am.

I am just lucky, i could have easily have had children before my csa even came to the surface or before i understood the impact that my early family life had on my behavioural development. We can only do what we know at the time i guess, i didnt know that i even had unhealthy behaviour, i just felt bad, sad, angry etc, and i did what i knew how to do to get what i needed, thats just how it was. I couldnt do any different because i didnt know any different.

Now im learning different, and i can say for me, that i wont be having children until i have a much better understanding of HEALTHY and am able to participate in HEALTHY behaviours within my relationship. If that means that i run out of time well so be it, I cant teach my kids what i dont know. Will it be my current partners fault that i ran out of time?, NO, this is my decision, I am not a victim, I have the choice to find another partner, or have a child by any other means, but that wont help if i am not healthy anyway.

I guess what i am saying is that there are a multitude of choices that can be made in relation to choosing kids over staying in a relationship with a csa survivor, or not choosing, or waiting, or not having kids, or not choosing anything etc etc, but they are all choices, looking at yourself on the inside and seeing what choices you are really making and why i guess is more important, weighing up what it is that you really want from life for yourself, what is important and identifying the risks to that associated with whatever choice you make.

I will say this, be very careful that your choice to have children heavily considers what YOU can GIVE to your child to ensure that YOUR CHILD has healthy development. and again "MONKEY SEE - MONKEY DO"

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#402040 - 06/28/12 10:10 AM Re: Almost at the end of my rope [Re: patientlywaiting]
Valkyrie Offline


Registered: 04/27/12
Posts: 167
Wow. Just wow. Thank you for posting. I am married to a CSA survivor and he only just started dealing with it after our being together for 12 years. I am 39 and time is running out for trying to have a child - something my husband couldn't handle despite always dropping statements like "when we have kids..."

So now, children are on hold. And it may be permanent. My husband is in a fragile place and his survival is first and foremost. I may regret never having a child, but I will never regret choosing my husband's survival over that.

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#402043 - 06/28/12 10:23 AM Re: Almost at the end of my rope [Re: patientlywaiting]
Valkyrie Offline


Registered: 04/27/12
Posts: 167
I am just coming off a really bad month with my husband. I didn't take care of my needs for last 6 months and I completely melted down.

His incessant calling and texting to all his female friends sent me over a cliff. I know it is a coping mechanism, and he is just trying to survive, but I am recovering from the discovery of all his infidelities and I just completely lashed out at him in the worst way. We had a horrible fight where I truly thought the marriage was over.

My husband works out of town for many of the summer months. I was supposed to join him and our marriage counselor and his therapist urged me to stay home. Something he latched onto with great enthusiasm. He pulled himself out of latest spiral for the few days before he left but after he was gone, I crashed. Hard.

Now I realize it was a good thing. After a few days of non-stop crying, I finally reached out to friends, did some activities I enjoy, and feel like I can breathe again. The marriage counselor is working with me on the side.

The point is this: my marriage may not survive. I will stick it out on the gamble that my husband may get better and may still decide not to be married to me. WHICH WOULD KILL ME. But I love him enough to see him survive. My needs are secondary in this marriage right now. It's not fair, but it is what it is. If you cannot commit to the gamble - and it is a gamble - then you are doing niether him or yourself any favors.

A crappy decision to make, that is certain, but you need to start addressing with yourself.

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#403810 - 07/16/12 03:53 PM Re: Almost at the end of my rope [Re: patientlywaiting]
patientlywaiting Offline


Registered: 06/07/12
Posts: 16
Loc: New York
After another circular fight between us about marriage on Saturday night, I did some real soul-searching on Sunday. I came to the conclusion that since he's unable to give me any sort of commitment to the future, I needed to leave for a while. Right now, we're not broken up, but are on a break. This hurts me so much, but neither of us saw any sort of solution to the problem. I'm not sure that this will help the relationship, or hurt it; I guess only time will tell.
I'm unsure if I should give it a few weeks and ask him to go to therapy with me, or this will even help? Does anyone have any other suggestions than to just "let it ride and give him unconditional love," because I couldn't do this while sacrificing my needs any longer. Thanks

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#403824 - 07/16/12 06:52 PM Re: Almost at the end of my rope [Re: patientlywaiting]
Haps Offline


Registered: 07/06/12
Posts: 89
Loc: Ohio
Patiently - I can only ad that my P and I have been separated for 3+ months, and it was the best thing given our situation. Constant arguing, resentment, emotional games... Oye. Not cool.

We r on vacation together right now, though. Far from perfect, for sure, but what the hell is perfect, right?

I chose to leave the house for my own sanity. Found great ways to take care of me in the process, and uncovered a lot of things that I'm happy to be working on. Wouldn't have done that living together.

Thr first week sucked, sure, but it got so much easier so much faster than I thought. I'm also way more clear about my needs right now, and this vacation is like a bit of a date. Checking each other out again.

It's also not the end. We did take vows that we take seriously. We (nay I) are not rushing to divorce. We are hopeful. I'm coming to understand much more with the gift of time and space.

PS - On the other topic, adoption and foster parenting are also options! smile

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#404183 - 07/20/12 10:55 AM Re: Almost at the end of my rope [Re: patientlywaiting]
patientlywaiting Offline


Registered: 06/07/12
Posts: 16
Loc: New York
So, I stopped by our apartment the next day to grab some stuff and I accidentally ran into him there (he was not supposed to be there at that time). Long story short, we talked for about 2 hours and came to a resolution that we could both comfortable with.

Then he asks me on Wednesday night if I would be mad if he went on vacation (one that we had been planning to his family cottage together) by himself back to his parents house. I was hurt and confused, because I thought we were trying to work on stuff. I come to find out that before we talked things out on Monday, he had invited a friend to go with him to the family cottage. I only knew this because of a text message conversation I found on his phone. The thing is, it's a female friend, and I don't know her. I told him that I wasn't comfortable with this and that he betrayed me by not telling me, and me having to find it out myself. I told him that I feel threatened by her and that it is a natural instinct. He reassures me that there is nothing intimate or sexual there and that he's not attracted to her.

I'm ok with him taking time away to get his head clear of everything that's going on with the memories of molestation (more came up a week ago) and the tough times of our relationship, but I'm not ok with him going to the cottage with her. I feel like he's doing this TO me, but do any survivors think he may be doing this FOR himself, or is he acting out?

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#404184 - 07/20/12 10:56 AM Re: Almost at the end of my rope [Re: patientlywaiting]
patientlywaiting Offline


Registered: 06/07/12
Posts: 16
Loc: New York
I should say, the resolution was that we decided to stay together and continue to live together.

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#404204 - 07/20/12 03:51 PM Re: Almost at the end of my rope [Re: patientlywaiting]
GoodHope Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/05/11
Posts: 413
If its for himself, why isn't he going alone? If he doesn't have to go alone, why can't you be his companion? When is it ever appropriate for someone to go in vacation with a person of the opposite sex whom the committed partner knows nothing about? The other woman is no threat to your relationship, your partner is. You aren't married, your stuff is already moved out, keep it that way.
_________________________
Wife of a survivor

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#404207 - 07/20/12 04:38 PM Re: Almost at the end of my rope [Re: patientlywaiting]
scottyg Offline


Registered: 06/26/12
Posts: 253
Loc: Seattle
hi... I've learned there are two distinct kinds of survivors. Some of us totally withdraw and want nothing to do with sex with another person. Others of us swing (no pun) the opposite way and are looking for validation through sex with as many outside partners as possible. I believe that many of the contributers within F&F are here because they're married to the latter. You haven't indicated to which extreme he swings but I have an idea because I haven't detected lots of anger about other women til now.

Let me just tell you that many of us CSA guys prefer the company of women. For many years I had only female friends, not girlfriends. Friends. We have deep issues with trust and because men abused us we do not trust men or their motivations so we gravitate to females for support. Your man was clearly affacted by a much older male so that manly trust issue may be a factor here. We like women better b/c they're usually more emotionally available, they don't participate in macho posturing, is short they're more relatable. So it may be that your man has found a confidant he trusts and she happens to be female. Maybe he didn't tell you because it looks bad. Your natural reaction was something he was trying to avoid. By no means am I giving his weird behavior a pass, only explaning the possible motives. From your point of view it's a horrible breach of trust and respect. You should be that confidant. Be he's fearful of you. I was terrified to tell things to my wife because I feared rejection and abandonment. Abandonment is another tangent, like children, that I could derail this whole thread with. Focus, scott, focus.

But in the bizarro world of CSA up is down and black is white. Example: Because I love my wife too much I cannot have sex with her. Like that makes any sense? It does to me. So one explanation for this trip without you but with someone who's female is that he loves you and needs you too much to be honest with you about the things he needs to tell you. Fear and secrecy are the recurring themes in our lives, remember that.

I want to conclude by re-stating what I think I understand: He will be with his family on a family vacation at the family cottage (must be nice, Montauk is it?) without you but with his entire family who will no doubt be asking where you are. Don't know if I got that right or not but that's the premise I'm working from. On paper, leaving your live-in-fiancee to go away on vacation with another woman looks reaaaaaly bad. But if I understand this right, he's not actually blowing town for some tropical hideaway. He's going to participate in family activities under their supervision with one obvious future member of the family absent. I could be way off, and I'm sure someone will tell me if I am, but I think he's going to re-charge and get his head together a little bit. You're not invited because he needs to talk and think about you and figure out how he can be a better partner. At least that's what I'd do in Montauk (well, after a full day of sailing and shrimp cocktail at the Club).
_________________________
I've got a bike you can ride it if you like.
Its got a basket, a bell that rings
And many other things to make it look good.
I'd give it to you if I could -but I've borrowed it.

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#404359 - 07/22/12 01:00 PM Re: Almost at the end of my rope [Re: patientlywaiting]
patientlywaiting Offline


Registered: 06/07/12
Posts: 16
Loc: New York
No, he was going to go up there just him and her. No family would be there. I told him hands down, I am not comfortable with this and if he goes up there with her, he will not be allowed back home. I also said that if he thinks that he'll just agree to my terms and do what he wants, think again. I found out about his ulterior plans and I'll find out if he goes up to the family cottage with her. We'll see how this goes. At this point, I don't even want to go on vacation with him. I need this time to clear my head, too.

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#404438 - 07/23/12 02:39 AM Re: Almost at the end of my rope [Re: patientlywaiting]
havenlost Offline


Registered: 07/15/12
Posts: 27
Loc: Alabama
I have to chime in from where I am right now in my relationship. Maybe that will help.

It feels like you are on a constant teeter-totter at the playground, and it's fun while both partners are participating, but when one suddenly decides to jump off abruptly and you go crashing into the ground busting your being and then falling over and hitting your head on the ground, which causes an excruciating headache, only to see that same partner not even notice the pain he/she caused you, and then five minutes later he/she wants to take you on another joyful ride, and then gets confused when you say no thanks.

I'm all about faith, and hope, and change, and lights at the end of long tunnels. People CAN become stronger and better for the long hauls of life. Question is.....what is our threshold ?

We all have to make our choices in each given situation.

Life is short.
Really short.

My husband did not want to get married. I think he did it because he was afraid he would lose me. We are in deep trouble now. For what ever reason guys say no to marriage, please heed it. It will only get worse if he gives in, and it is not a promise from the core of his heart. Let him work his issues out on his own. As others have said, if he shows up at your door someday, and you are still available, then address it then, but not now, he is not ready, and unless you're willing to be on the falling end of that teeter-totter, neither are you.
_________________________
But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.

Isaiah 40:31

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#404721 - 07/25/12 03:44 AM Re: Almost at the end of my rope [Re: patientlywaiting]
Clueless2 Offline


Registered: 07/25/12
Posts: 9
patientlywaiting, I feel for you.

I knew fairly early in the relationship with my boyfriend that he was a survivor of CSA, but I was clueless! Now, I am 2 years into a relationship with a wonderful man, but... At first when he would withdraw I would think I had done something that had angered him, hurt him, or that he was thinking about ending our relationship, and after a few days of anguish on my part, he would reconnect and act like nothing was the matter. And I would be a wreck. We do not live together, so he would drop text conversations, not call, or not pick up if I called. He would usually connect on a daily basis with a one liner text and that would be it. After 2 years you would think I would be used to it, but it is painful every time it happens. Thankfully it happens only about every 2-3 mon., maybe longer. I am fairly certain that he has been faithful to me, but he is so secretive about his phone, but wants to know who is texting me or calling me. I understand that he was violated and that trust and privacy are huge issues, but is this typical? I think the thing that bothers me the most is that everything has to be on his terms. I am pretty laid back, so usually it doesn't bother me, but when I ask him to just let me know if he needs me to give him some space, he ignores me and doesn't respond. Does this happen to anyone else out there?

I have been reading When a Man You Love Has Been Abused and it has offered a lot of insight. I offer unconditional love, I don't push, I support him as much as I know how, but I really do want to marry. I love him and am very attached. I just have a problem with the fact that our relationship is on his terms and my needs or desires do not seem to factor in. I don't want to be selfish, I just want what is best for both of us, not just him. He has asked for us to move in together, but I am not really interested in blending my life together with his and committing to building a future together outside of marriage. Am I being unrealistic?

On one hand he has resisted a timeline for marriage and on the other he talks about how we are going to manage our finances, where we will live together, etc. Sometimes I feel like a little girl with a flower pulling the petals out one at a time, he loves me, he loves me not, he loves me...

I can't describe the emotional turmoil.

Sometimes I feel disrespected and at other times treated with love, kindness, and compassion. The duality is hard to reconcile. But I remind myself that this is part of the process of healing, I just don't know if I am strong enough to weather through the storm.

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#404726 - 07/25/12 04:34 AM Re: Almost at the end of my rope [Re: patientlywaiting]
scottyg Offline


Registered: 06/26/12
Posts: 253
Loc: Seattle
i was wrong before. Let's see if I can be wrong twice in one thread. DANGER Clueless2 DANGER. You are right to want equity in this relationship. Some one is testing how much you will put up with. You need to push back. I see you apologizing for manipulative behaviors and it scares me. I am not normal but I play normal on TV. I do not mircomanage my partners texts and calls. I do not demand every descision to be on my terms. Why not? Because I am through trying to manipulate people. These are the behaviors of somebody with boudary issues. Meaning he does not recognize yours. Be careful not clueless.
_________________________
I've got a bike you can ride it if you like.
Its got a basket, a bell that rings
And many other things to make it look good.
I'd give it to you if I could -but I've borrowed it.

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#404737 - 07/25/12 09:01 AM Re: Almost at the end of my rope [Re: patientlywaiting]
patientlywaiting Offline


Registered: 06/07/12
Posts: 16
Loc: New York
scottyg, I wish that you had been right! I'm going to pick up the co-dependent book that's been mentioned on multiple forums here. It seems like the easiest route to just leave him, but I've always taken this route. Yes, he has done some terrible shit in the last week. Yes, he is in great need of getting into therapy. Yes, WE are in need of therapy. It looks as though I wasn't nearly as close to the end of my rope as I thought when I first made this post.
Clueless2-he's never been controlling when it comes to know who I'm calling or texting. That combined with his extreme secrecy about his cell phone makes me concerned that he's up to something. This is a behavior that my ex displayed, and he ended up being a big-time cheater! With a CSA survivor, it may be his way of control, but maybe not. I didn't know about my partner's past until about 2 years into our relationship. I will reiterate what scottyg said, be careful.

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#404738 - 07/25/12 09:07 AM Re: Almost at the end of my rope [Re: patientlywaiting]
Disappointed Offline


Registered: 08/11/09
Posts: 540
Loc: U.S.A.
Dear Clueless,

1. If he is secretive about his phone, I would make a well-educated guess it's because he's doing something on the phone he doesn't want you to know about.

2. Marriage is a great institution, IF YOU PICK THE RIGHT MAN FOR THE JOB OF HUSBAND. If he doesn't want to get married, he's not the right man for the job, and you might as well be thinking about who's a good divorce lawyer while you're picking china patterns.

3. I'm here because of a friend. He's on a cycle also. Read 1 above. What's on his phone could be very revealing. If you look at it and don't like what you see, DO NOT TAKE IT PERSONALLY. IT'S NOT PERSONAL. It's the result of the trauma he suffered.

4. If you want to be married, FISH OR CUT BAIT. I recommend you read "Mars and Venus on a Date" by John Gray. And, believe it or not, "The Rules" by Ellen Fein and Sherrie Schneider.

There's so much you don't understand about this, unless you're willing to spend hundreds of hours learning about it AND enduring near constant disappointment, I'd move on. There are plenty of fish in the sea.

D.


Edited by Disappointed (07/25/12 09:27 AM)
Edit Reason: Additional thought.
_________________________
Female.

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#404747 - 07/25/12 11:35 AM Re: Almost at the end of my rope [Re: patientlywaiting]
Clueless2 Offline


Registered: 07/25/12
Posts: 9
Thanks, scottyg, patientlywaiting and disappointed. I had never posted before now and just found the website a few weeks ago. I am really wondering about his phone now. A few days ago, I went to use his bathroom and he barged in on me because he had left his phone in there. It sounds like we need to have a heart to heart. Although he tells me I can tell him anything, he is hard to approach.

I wonder how much of his behavior is CSA and how much can be assigned to other factors. His withdrawing really gets to me. I tried to tell him in a text, but he didn't really get it. He says what was all that about? I decided that I really can't say anything of any substance unless it is in person. Too many ways for my words to be misinterpreted. Sometimes I will ask a question and he will ignore me. From the beginning it was difficult for him to look me in the eye, but he is getting better at it. I have to be careful about what I say because he gets upset about stuff in ways that I don't really get.

I don't have anything to hide. I am 5 years into my own recovery from a long term marriage to an unfaithful man, so I am sensitive about anything that feels disloyal. I don't feel that, but things just don't add up. Sometimes I feel really positive about where we are headed, and at other times like now because he is shutting me out, I think why am I doing this? Being shut out feels too much like rejection and abandonment and I don't cope with that really well because of my history.

My issue is this. I have worked really hard to accept him where he is at, love him, be a support, not push, be trustworthy, demonstrate loyalty, etc. In so many ways he is a really good man. Yet, you all are encouraging me to confront, set boundaries, and give him a choice.

Will accountability feel like manipulation and control to him? Will this set him back in his recovery?

I have had all this in my heart and head with no one to really talk about it who might understand.

Thanks,

C2

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#404753 - 07/25/12 01:20 PM Re: Almost at the end of my rope [Re: patientlywaiting]
scottyg Offline


Registered: 06/26/12
Posts: 253
Loc: Seattle
Are you a fixer? Do you grvitate toward puppy-dog men who are in need of your help? I wonder because that is exactly what you've got here. I like extended mataphors so I will bore you with one now.

A new relationship with a CSA guy is like an electical fire in a dirty old toaster. You know, all the shit builds up in the bottom and they'll smoke and burn and catch fire eventually if they're never dealt with. That is where you are at right now C2. It smells funny and there are some plumes of smoke. And you're asking, should I keep making toast? Lets say you ignore the signs. You keep moving along the current trajectory of the relationship. You keep making toast. After a while all that shit burning deep down inside will set the whole appliance on fire. You have an electrical fire now. Confused, panicked, not knowing what to do, you throw water on it. Water conducts electricity so now you've got sparks and bigger flames... it's getting out of control. There is a fire extinguisher that will work to control the destruction. You can see it, point to it, hold it in your hands. But you cannot use it. Only he can use it to stop the burning and that's only if he wants to use it. Some of us are in such denial with a straight face we say, what fire? There are others among us here that are still watching the flames spread as this destruction takes ove the entire house. Sometimes it doesn't end till the house is burned to the ground.

So yes. He is a manipulative child who wants it his way always. He will say your confrontation demanding him to address his issues, seek help and heal are a diabolical manipulation. It will not go over well. Your strength is you come from a place of love and you are on the side of righteousness. He says you can tell him anything. Be honest. Tell him you are deeply concerned. Tell him you want to help. Tell him you know you can't. Tell him that he and ONLY he holds the key to his greater happiness. Tell him that happiness and healing come through therapy and support. Tell him you will be there for him as he heals. Tell him you'll support him in his journey. Tell him he is not alone, that we are waiting with open arms on MS. Tell him this is the only answer. Tell him you will not be manipulated. Tell him you will not allow secrecy. Tell him you have heard the forcast and it is dire. Tell him you will provide that shelter if he will only allow himself to heal. Tell him you will not waste your time on a child who won't man up. It gets real around here...life's too short to endure unnecessary pains. It's timeto make hard choices C2.

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#404762 - 07/25/12 02:05 PM Re: Almost at the end of my rope [Re: patientlywaiting]
Disappointed Offline


Registered: 08/11/09
Posts: 540
Loc: U.S.A.
Dear Clueless2,

I didn't suggest you confront.

D.
_________________________
Female.

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#404800 - 07/25/12 09:05 PM Re: Almost at the end of my rope [Re: Disappointed]
Clueless2 Offline


Registered: 07/25/12
Posts: 9
Disappointed,

I don't know how I can set boundaries without a confrontation. Or how I can ask him about the phone secrecy without confronting him. Suggestions?


Edited by Clueless2 (07/25/12 09:08 PM)

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#404802 - 07/25/12 09:14 PM Re: Almost at the end of my rope [Re: scottyg]
Clueless2 Offline


Registered: 07/25/12
Posts: 9
No, I am not a fixer. Used to be, but have been working on my own recovery for about 5 years. I can't fix anyone. That is why I have left things alone for so long. Hoping and praying that with acceptance and support he would continue to heal.

My heart is heavy and I don't think a happy ending is in my future.

Thanks for the suggestions on what to say to him.

C2

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#404888 - 07/26/12 01:04 PM Re: Almost at the end of my rope [Re: patientlywaiting]
Disappointed Offline


Registered: 08/11/09
Posts: 540
Loc: U.S.A.
I don't know either of you, but just from what I have gathered:

He's not giving you what you want. Start dating other men as well. Just explain this relationship isn't going in the direction you believe is in your best interest long term (baby without husband - or house loan with unmarried co-signers - or whatever your belief is), and you love him, but no longer wish to be exclusive with him. You're going to date other men as well.

This is not an ultimatum or confrontation. Just a statement the relationship isn't working out as you'd hoped, and you're going to see what else is out there.

Then see if he starts changing in order to persuade you he is the one for him.

Don't settle on his terms if they're inadequate.
D.

P.S. Read the books. Seriously.
_________________________
Female.

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#404889 - 07/26/12 01:06 PM Re: Almost at the end of my rope [Re: patientlywaiting]
Disappointed Offline


Registered: 08/11/09
Posts: 540
Loc: U.S.A.
Also, I wouldn't call him or text him or anything. Let him call you, text you, etc.

Let him come to you.
_________________________
Female.

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#404903 - 07/26/12 03:51 PM Re: Almost at the end of my rope [Re: patientlywaiting]
Clueless2 Offline


Registered: 07/25/12
Posts: 9
Thanks to everything for the wise counsel. Will post with an update soon.

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#406095 - 08/07/12 09:50 AM Re: Almost at the end of my rope [Re: patientlywaiting]
patientlywaiting Offline


Registered: 06/07/12
Posts: 16
Loc: New York
Here's an update with my situation-

We broke up last night. Very saddened by this and wish there were another solution, but it just isn't working anymore. Thanks for the advice from everyone and good luck to you and your partners on your journey.

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#406106 - 08/07/12 01:41 PM Re: Almost at the end of my rope [Re: patientlywaiting]
HD001 Offline


Registered: 07/30/12
Posts: 236
Loc: us
Wow, I cant relate you your struggle so much.
This the same thing I went through with my husband. Before we got married we were together for 3 1/2 years. Every time I brought up marriage he said he wasn't ready, but he would not sit down and really tell me why. He did say that he needed to figure stuff out with himself. But not details. I had known about his CSA our whole relationship but it was something I knew to not talk about. I eventually got fed up and moved out. It had seemed like the more I pushed the meaner he got. I told him that I was leaving him because I wanted to be married and have a family. If he didn't want to marry me I would find someone who did. I told him I loved him so much and hoped that he could figure his stuff out because I felt that all the anger he was projecting on to me was because he is really mad at himself.

3 months later he came and begged me back. He got me a ring, at first everything was great. He was so excited, and helped plan everything. However in the days right before the wedding he started getting really distant again.

We have been married for year now and let me tell you that the shit really hit the fan. Because of his CSA he feels like I don't really love him, and he isn't good enough. We are trying to get some help for him. A good therapist. But I will warn you that this is Hell. Sometimes I wonder if I should have told him to go to counseling before we got married, however part of me thinks that the reason things got so bad he is finally dealing with them, is because we are married and he feels more secure. I don't know, my husband is 26 and I'm 27 he is a great provider but emotionally I'm on my own. It's hard, painful and exhausting. Be careful what you wish for, because if you guys get married before he has healed you could find yourself in a hard situation.
_________________________
Everything comes from within

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#406108 - 08/07/12 01:57 PM Re: Almost at the end of my rope [Re: patientlywaiting]
patientlywaiting Offline


Registered: 06/07/12
Posts: 16
Loc: New York
There's no getting back together this time; I'm fairly sure of it. Good luck with your husband, I hope you make the best choices for you. What I've learned from this whole experience is that you can't sacrifice yourself and your needs for those that you love-no matter HOW much you love them. All that I can say now is that I hope he finds peace with himself and is able to be as close to whole in the future.

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