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#398901 - 05/30/12 06:38 PM Re: self condemnation [Re: nebius]
nebius Offline


Registered: 05/29/12
Posts: 6
gbwu is it possible to share what happened?

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#398903 - 05/30/12 06:48 PM Re: self condemnation [Re: nebius]
GBWU Offline


Registered: 04/21/12
Posts: 17
Nebius,

I sent you PM.

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#398907 - 05/30/12 08:01 PM Re: self condemnation [Re: nebius]
herowannabe Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/01/11
Posts: 386
Loc: USA
Quote:
I am not insulting any of the men who were raped as adults or denying an adult man can be raped. But I also don't think you should insult them when a consenting male adult has bad sex and admits it to his wife. You are not helping him. He may be a victim in another way that needs help.


Faaaar from an expert on the topic, I have weighed each post in this thread and find Getta's train of thought most logical in this instance.

No one here believes male rape doesn't happen. There are horrid stories of male rape- all true and all very much a crime. My own survivor/husband was very much raped by male pedophiles as a teenager- a child.

However, in the case of an adult of legal age, unless the adult was rendered mentally or physically incapacitated (drugs/alcohol, roped and tied/restrained, physically assaulted, threatened, etc.), I have a very hard time subscribing to the rape theory. I am open to education in this area as I certainly may be dead wrong, but I don't know if a court of law would even view a sexual act between two adults as rape in the absence of some kind of control over the victim.

The therapist's pronouncement of rape, on paper, doesn't convince me. I'm jaded, but we all know there are less than competent therapists running amuck out there. Most of us have been strung along by a therapist or two or three who prefer to keep us as victims in order to keep us in counseling and writing out those checks!

Nebius, will you please tell us why the counselor calls this rape?

Not only do I not want to see Nebius provided with poor support, but our MS community runs a grave risk in painting situations involving adults as "rape" with so few specifics. To do so puts everyone involved in danger- including this doctor!

For example, it appears the doctor is in private practice. Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't physicians schooled in "bed side manner" so they are better-able to provide compassionate care without crossing legal and ethical lines with patients? Isn't the medical code to "Do No Harm"? Do they not answer to a state medical board?

Since this twisted woman came to him seeking/under the guise of seeking professional help, could it not be said that he used his position as a physician to gain her trust and after doing so raped her? I'm NOT saying that's what happened, nor do I even suspect it, but only wish to illustrate how dangerous it is to "assume". With so little information, not a one of us can begin to ascertain what is and what isn't. Imagine if the wrong party is being called a rapist? Just sayin'.

This community has an obligation to help eductate the general public about sexual crimes against males. In labeling this act as rape without having more information turns us into fanatics that the public will quickly dismiss.

I want to be here on MS to help men who have suffered true rape. I want to support the F&F who are suffering through the fall-out of that abuse. I don't want to be diluting the very serious crime of male rape. I also don't want to do further damage to a victim by not believing their story.

Again, Nebius, can you provide more information? Will legal action be taken against this woman? As supporters, we so greatly want to support you as you support your beloved. But as victims of our survivors' acting in/acting out, we don't want to support you in the wrong way.

Hope that makes sense?

Godspeed, All-
herowannabe
_________________________


For I know the plans I have made for you. Plans to give you a future and a hope. Jeremiah 29:11


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#398920 - 05/30/12 11:00 PM Re: self condemnation [Re: GBWU]
mmfan Offline


Registered: 09/25/11
Posts: 114
Thanks for the support GBWU. Sorry to hear what happened to your husband. frown

OP I'm glad your husband is getting support and validation from safe people. PTSD is very real and horrific. The good news is that he can and will recover and you two will get your lives back, you just have to hang on. My thoughts are with you both.

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#398932 - 05/31/12 01:31 AM Re: self condemnation [Re: nebius]
CruxFidelis Offline


Registered: 06/16/10
Posts: 486
Loc: NJ
Originally Posted By: nebius
The actual act was sadistic in nature and he says was very painful for him. He can't remember much of it but felt like he was being controlled and manipulated. We started going to a therapist who after hearing the story says he was not in an affair of any sort but fell victim to a sexual predatore who beguilled and abused him. When he told her not to contact him again she laughed and said that was fun. It's been months since this happened and he feals suicidal at times, confused and angry. How does this happen to an adult man? I am a little confused myself-is it just a cover?


Only you can decide whether it's a cover or not.

I can understand how he wold say it was an affair. I was raped as a married man and there was a lot of manipulation involved. I was raped by a male nurse's assistant in a hospital bed while hooked up to a ventilator, and he threatened to turn my vent off and end my life. It felt like I was doing sexual acts with him, it probably looked that way, and I beat myself up for a long time for being unfaithful to my wife. I know most of the world doesn't even know that grown men can be raped, but it doesn't stop that from being true. 1 in 33 men is raped as an adult. Women are certainly capable of doing this. I don't know how she conned and manipulated him, but if, like you said, this is out of his character then I'd give him the benefit of the doubt. If you don't, he will probably shut down and might not feel like it's safe to talk about the assault with you.

I love my wife and would never cheat on her, so I don't have any firsthand experience with infidelity, but when I was hiding my assault from my wife, I said some pretty outlandish things to her. I once told her that it was OK for her to have an affair, because I wasn't able to sexually perform anymore. I told her that she could just go out and find a real man. She looked at me like I had 5 heads. Intimacy is still really hard between us because I feel like the rape "defiled" the marriage bed the two of us share. I can personally attest to the fact that when you're carrying the shame of sexual assault, you will say things that don't even make sense.

Another thing to consider, is that he may have said that he had an affair because honestly the fact that a man can be raped is a taboo concept. Few people care enough to address it and our society lacks a vocabulary to adequately explain the reality of being raped as an adult male. I can imagine being raped by a woman would have its own kind of shame attached to it. My therapist has told me that the reason why it's so hard for me to understand that the rape wasn't my fault, because that would mean that I wasn't in control of the situation, and honestly that is the worst thing in the world for a man. At least, if it was an affair, he would have had control. It sounds like he didn't. Affairs don't usually hurt. Men usually have them because they get a "high" either physically or emotionally. But it might have been the only way he could have described what happened. It took me a long time to say the word "rape" out loud.
_________________________
“If a man wishes to be sure of the road he treads on, he must close his eyes and walk in the dark.”

- Saint John of the Cross

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#398933 - 05/31/12 01:48 AM Re: self condemnation [Re: Gretta]
CruxFidelis Offline


Registered: 06/16/10
Posts: 486
Loc: NJ
Originally Posted By: Gretta

Having an affair is more intentional and obviously more hurtful to wife and the overall relationship. Rape implies zero responsibility over the fact that it happened. I find that Doubtful inthis situation. When a woman comes here and asks the question I answer her as honestly as possible. I don't do it to hurt her I do it to give her the truth.

I would still like an answer on personal responsibility.


I was raped as a married man. In my experience, few people understand unless they have gone through it themselves.

Sexual assault/rape manifests itself in different ways involving different people. Women can be perps. Grown men can be victims. I can attest that grown men aren't immune to being vulnerable. We don't know what this women may have done to get him alone with her, but one thing that I learned from my experience with sexual assault is that ANYTHING is possible. This site is geared towards supporting victims and their families. None of us can say with 100% certainty that this man was victimized, but if this was a simple affair gone wrong, if I were in this woman's shoes I wouldn't feel much sympathy for him and would already have condemned him to the couch. The fact that the experience was painful, memories were blocked out, and he is suffering from depression and suicidal thoughts would lead me to believe some kind of trauma happened.

In my marriage with my wife, the two of us tend to avoid situations where we might end up with 1 on 1 time with a member of the opposite sex. Most of my friends are male, and most of her friends are female, so this isn't hard for us. Being stalked is very different from putting yourself in the near occasion of adultery. Just because he is a man, doesn't mean he is invincible. We don't know what kind of threat he was operating under.

also.... would we be talking about "personal responsibility" if the genders were reversed and we were talking about a female victim?
_________________________
“If a man wishes to be sure of the road he treads on, he must close his eyes and walk in the dark.”

- Saint John of the Cross

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#398953 - 05/31/12 05:42 AM Re: self condemnation [Re: nebius]
dark empathy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 1963
Loc: durham, north england
For 20 years my dad worked as a psychiatric nurse. When the details of my own rape as a teenager, by a bunch of girls the same age came out, my dad told me a story that one of his colleagues told him.

This friend of my dads worked in a domestic violence center. One night, a very large, six foot two man came into the center with a black eye, bruises all over his face and on his body. It was pretty obvious that this man had been beaten up quite badly. When my dad's friend asked who was responsable, he admited to her that it was his wife who had got drunk.

She was rather surprised, and asked if he'd done anything to avoid being hit. His response "I couldn't hit my wife, ---- she's only five foot one!"

Power is not always expressed in physical force, nor should what happens to a man's body be confused with what his mind is doing, which is pretty much the route of the "males can't be victims" problem.

In my case, there was absolutely no doubt of the intentions of those involved. Insults, physical violence, I even had my face spat in during the proceedings. but whatever was going on, and wherever my mind was, my body, ---- or at least part of my body, responded, which in fact provoked even more abuse.

The age thing is almost ironic, sinse both i and the girls involved in my abuse were 15, which actually makes me! legally of the age of concent, sinse in the Uk it's 14 for boys, and them not, sinse it's 16 for girls, indeed I'm fairly certain had I been a girl, it wouldn't have happened, simply because even in a school that was such a pit of shit as mine was, there are things that you don't! do to a girl, when involved in bullying, indeed on a couple of occasions when I punched a girl in the chest I! was the one to get yelled at.

I didn't even use the word "rape" in connection what had happened to me, sinse the idea of multiple girls, especially teenaged girls abusing a boy is so alien to society's understanding, in fact when my mum used the word a good few years later I was completely and utterly stunned.

This isn't of course to say that men don't have affairs. That would be a stupid statement, only that from everything i've heard nebuous saying, the fact that this woman was a predator, that she laughed at necbuous husband, that he felt such a great amount of traumer after the fact, all this says to me that there was no concent.

The view that a man by virtue of being! a man cannot be raped by someone his own age is to me just prejudiced. Of course this isn't to say that every man who has an extra marital affair is a victim, but the more I here about this, the less it sounds like this chap had any choice in the matter.

I freely confess I am sensative about this issue for pretty obvious reasons, however I am extremely worried when the first response to hereing of a man who has had a traumatic s/xual encounter is "he must have wanted it"

Would this be the same response for a married woman who made a similar claime of having been abused? definitely not.

While I don't know greta's story, and can accept that perhaps her experiences incline her to look upon the facts one way, where as mine incline me to look upon them another, I think what nebuous has said here is pretty conclusive.

For my part I'm extremely sorry this happened to your husband nebuous, and I really hope he can find the strength to begin healing, ---- at least he quite obviously and manifestly has the support of a very loving wife.

He would be very welcome to join ms, but whether he wishes to or not, i really hope he can get passed the affects of such a dreadful experience.

Luke.

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#398959 - 05/31/12 06:32 AM Re: self condemnation [Re: nebius]
Gretta Offline


Registered: 09/17/11
Posts: 239
Crux and dark empathy I am not debating your story on your rape nor that the existence of male rape. let me repeat I AM NOT DENYING YOUR RAPE OR THE EXISTENCE OF ADULT MALE Crux I am sorry your story is awful and clearly rape. First of all dark empathy you were not an adult and crux you were unable to defend yourself and your life was threaten. That's rape. I do understand the difference, it would be crazy to call your situations Affairs.

Let's stick to the story at hand And I already said if this happened to a woman I would say the exact same thing? Really I guess everyone here just reads what they want and fills in there own story.

And the original statement was how did you jump to the conclusion without more facts? Because only raped men contemplate suicide? Not true.

I thought heroes statement about assumption was very good, someone could assume as a medical provide he overstepped his bounds, his hypocratic oath. I am not saying that is true, before everyone loses their mind. Assuming and jumping to conclusions based on your own experience is dangerous. The Affair scenerio is as viable as any other that's all I am saying.

I have already said this but I feel her husband is very sincere and I also hope he gets help. Without further details it's impossible to determine what really happened.

Dark Empathy you are 100% right my experiences has taught me that some men have cheated and will do and say almost anything to cover it up. I spent many years in the dark. I wish I had known, not sunshine blown up my rear end but the truth. His first disclosure was the tip of the iceberg. I hope that is not the case for neb's husband.

I think avoiding one on one extended situations with members of the opposite sex is a great idea.


Edited by Gretta (05/31/12 07:26 AM)

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#398966 - 05/31/12 08:12 AM Re: self condemnation [Re: nebius]
lucylives Offline


Registered: 04/07/11
Posts: 359
Gretta, you are wrong about one thing. I quuote you.....

some men have cheated and will do and say almost anything to cover it up

Almost is the key word here. In my case and that of my friends on here, the word almost needs to be taken out.

They will say ANYTHING to cover it up.

Don't know this woman's husband but I know mine and yours. The stories we have heard..........and believed because we think no one could possibly make this shit up. After my experience, I have to agree with you on everything except that word ALMOST. wink

To all the rest, no one including and especially Gretta is denying that grown men get raped. It happens everyday. The story just seems fishy.

Nebius, my heart goes out to you. Whatever the situation is, you are in for a great deal of pain. We are here to support you. Have you ever thought about having him take a lie detector test?

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#398969 - 05/31/12 08:23 AM Re: self condemnation [Re: nebius]
prisonerID Offline
Greeter Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/17/08
Posts: 1247
Loc: Oklahoma
Nebius,

Seek the counsel of the therapist and follow your heart in this. I truly hope that you and your husband find the peace and healing that you need both individually and as a couple. It does not matter if there are those here who do not "buy" his story. That is up to you and him to work through with the help of someone who actually knows what they are talking about.

Unless someone is a male survivor (CSA or ASA), a therapist who has dealt with ASA victims or the family member of an adult man who was assaulted then all said is simply ignorant speculation. This is your path to follow along with your husband and I am glad that you are both seeking help.

On a personal note - I do find some of the comments said here very supportive but I also found others to be quite insulting. We do not debate whether a man might have been abused as a child but there is one as to whether a man was as an adult. What year is this again?


Daryl


_________________________
Broad statements often miss their true mark.

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