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#398004 - 05/22/12 02:11 AM Sex and Fantasies "Trigger Warning"
lynnemarie Offline


Registered: 04/29/12
Posts: 22
Hi, I will apologise if I upset anyone but I need some help.

When I first met my boyfriend/friend I knew he was highly sexual, it was very important to him. I'm a shy person and he was pretty full on and in the begining it was all very exciting. He liked to talk about sex and tell me stories and I played along. Sometimes he would get annoyed with me when I wasn't imaginative enough, it made no sense.

Then he told me about his past, about the abuse by a female babysitter. After he told me it kinda clicked that he had been building up to tellig me for awhile, gaging my reaction based on the stories he text me.

A couple of months after he disclosed one night after sex he bolted, gone before I could follow him. He text me the next day to tell me he imagined I was his little sister as we made love and it really turned him on. I didn't reply right away and he panicked asked if I thought he was disgusting, I said no I didn't think he was disgusting I was just taking my time with it and I loved him. He started to open up abit more about his turn ons after that. He wanted to watch porn with me about taboo subjects, I said I would but under one condition it was always between consenting adults. Bam!! He didn't speak to me for a month, completely closed down and has never spoke about anything like that since.

We have come back together after a break of a couple of months. He got very sexual and things got very heated. After several text he asked me to call him daddy during sex, said it would turn him on and make him feel powerful.

I suppose my question is how do I cope with these kind of fantasies. I don't want him to feel that he is disgusting for his thoughts. It must have taken a great deal of courage to tell me all those months ago about the thoughts running through his head while we were together. How do I cope with it now. I have no problem with making him feel empowered but I'm worried that I might do more harm than good. How do I deal with them without upsetting him, judging him.

How do survivors deal with fantasies, are you able to tell your spouse about them, do you work through them, does it help that your spouse is there to listen to them?

And to partners, how have/would you cope if your spouse wanted to act out fantasies with you?

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#398020 - 05/22/12 06:49 AM Re: Sex and Fantasies "Trigger Warning" [Re: lynnemarie]
whome Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/07/11
Posts: 1734
Loc: Johannesburg South Africa
Hi Lynmarie.

My first question is this. Is your boyfriend in therapy for his sexual abuse??
Secondly I want to ask you a question. How do his strange sexual habits make you feel. Are you keen to participate or do they make you feel bad.

Now the important thing is are you prepared to make sacrifices for the rest of your relationship?
Are you prepared to change your life and standards for someone that you think you love, and I say think because you don't know who this man is.
He is slowly changing you into what he wants you to be, pushing the boundaries a little further each time. When you put your foot down and say no, he has a fit and runs away.

He is slowly shaping you into what he wants and trust me that YOU don't want that in your life.
You Need to decide who it is that you are, who you want to be, and what you want out of this life, then you need to see whether he fits into YOUR life and YOUR wants, and then decide whether YOU want him.
Don't be doing things to make him feel better or hopefully make him love you, you can never predict the outcome of such a relationship. What you can control is you and what you want.

Don't sell your soul.

I know my words may be tough, but healing from a emotionally abusive relationship is even more difficult and painful.

Heal well
Martin
_________________________
Matrix Men South Africa
Survivors Supporting Each other
Matrix Men Blog

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#398021 - 05/22/12 06:52 AM Re: Sex and Fantasies "Trigger Warning" [Re: lynnemarie]
Disappointed Offline


Registered: 08/11/09
Posts: 540
Loc: U.S.A.
Hi LynnMarie,

I am here because I have a friend abused as a child. In my limited experience with him over 3 years, you are fortunate. My friend compartmentalizes himself. He dates girls & marries them, never telling them what he's dealing with, then they tire of his behavior and divorce him. He's been divorced a few times.

With me, on the other hand, very slowly, he's revealed what's going on in his head, such as you describe. However, in these years he's only met with me a handful of times. So you are right, this is difficult.

It's VERY important not to shame him, or tell him he's deviant. VERY. As long as he respects your limitation on consenting adults, if you can work with him on these things, that would be great. Calling him "daddy" sounds pretty harmless to me. If it progressed to him wanting to physically abuse you, that's a whole different unacceptable thing.

I remember a post a year or two ago, where a wife's husband wanted her to dominate him in the bedroom and she did. It took some getting used to, but she did it, and they had some fun with it, even used some toys. I don't know where that post is, though.

I count you as very lucky and envy you.

Best wishes,
D.
_________________________
Female.

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#398031 - 05/22/12 08:24 AM Re: Sex and Fantasies "Trigger Warning" [Re: lynnemarie]
Esposa Offline
F&F Greeter
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/19/11
Posts: 675
Loc: NJ
I am a spouse that was slowly, unnoticeably pushed until I woke up one morning with a life I was not proud of.

For you to write this great post, it bothers you.

Take NOTICE when things bother you and don't let them go. Have boundaries. You must live a life YOU are proud of.

You don't have to shame anyone when you state clearly what you want, what you like, what you expect. He can have your support, your love - but he can't have your comfort or your limits. Those are yours.

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#398057 - 05/22/12 12:04 PM Re: Sex and Fantasies "Trigger Warning" [Re: lynnemarie]
herowannabe Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/01/11
Posts: 386
Loc: USA
Quote:
A couple of months after he disclosed one night after sex he bolted, gone before I could follow him. He text me the next day to tell me he imagined I was his little sister as we made love and it really turned him on. I didn't reply right away and he panicked asked if I thought he was disgusting, I said no I didn't think he was disgusting I was just taking my time with it and I loved him. He started to open up abit more about his turn ons after that. He wanted to watch porn with me about taboo subjects, I said I would but under one condition it was always between consenting adults. Bam!! He didn't speak to me for a month, completely closed down and has never spoke about anything like that since.


LM-

You are confusing "making love" with being objectified. You might think you two are making love, but you are most certainly not being made love to. Your boyfriend/friend (which is he, exactly?) is displaying crystal clear signs of a serious sexual disorder. It's hard to say if he's suffering from a sexual addiction because your relationship mainly consists of texting each other and... sex.

I may have hail and brimstone rained down on me for this, but it is NOT NORMAL for a sexually healthy male to fantasize about his little sister when having sex. I'm scared to even ask how old is his little sister. Perhaps my mainstream sexuality has created some prudishness, but his proclivities ARE disgusting, and I'm freaking out that you don't recognize that.

Porn. Okay, so what about watching porn together is enriching your intimacy? What about insisting on watching porn that only features two consenting adults (whatever that is) is so repulsive to him that he'd not speak to you for a month? And why on earth would you open the door again for him after such treatment?

It's loving and appropriate to not shame a survivor for having been the victim of abuse. It is quite another thing to pat a survivor on the head for not getting help in sorting out his short-circuited emotional and sexual development. You are not helping him by coddling him in this. You are not helping him by "loving him" (what exactly do you love about this guy who hides you from others and runs from you?) Most importantly, you are not helping yourself by spending your energy looking to learn how to be a successful tool for another's masturbation.

The way you are allowing yourself to be treated is at best abusive, at worst psychotic. No one is winning here!

I'm not sure what you've read here at MS, but survivors don't typically become abusers. Those who have become abusers are dealt with as is appropriate for the safety and well-being of those in and around his life. Their dysfuction is NOT supported; their healing IS.

You are only capable of helping your own self, which I beg of you to do. Please stop trying to become whatever this man's fantasies dictate. Please see a counselor and/or join a support group to help you understand why you are so grossly devaluing your worth.

I'm sorry if I sound harsh. I just have no patience with those who use male survivors as a mask for sexual perversion and dysfuction, deciet and abuse. That is a monsterous distortion of what it means to be a survivor.

Sending you prayers for insight and wisdom-
herowannabe

P.S. You are NOT one of the lucky ones. There is nothing good about your situation. Supporters are those whose survivors are working toward their recovery with us by their sides. We support by drawing the line in the sand, by setting firm boundaries that will NOT be crossed. We who consider ourselves lucky are those who are no longer victims of fall out from our survivor's trauma. This calls for taking off the rose-colored glasses we all wore and pulling up our big girl panties. In accomplishing this, we no longer lower our standards for our beloved, we raise our standards and help our loved one climb up to them. There's no "luck" involved in the process.


Edited by herowannabe (05/22/12 12:14 PM)
Edit Reason: typos
_________________________


For I know the plans I have made for you. Plans to give you a future and a hope. Jeremiah 29:11


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#398070 - 05/22/12 01:29 PM Re: Sex and Fantasies "Trigger Warning" [Re: herowannabe]
lynnemarie Offline


Registered: 04/29/12
Posts: 22
Herowannabe

I think you have totally misread my post or maybe I haven't explained myself properly. That night he told me about imagining his little sister, it freaked him out which is why he bolted. I would never, never "roleplay" that fantasy!! I had no idea at the time. He didn't ever have to tell me about it but he did. He didn't stop talking to me about the porn because he was disguted with me, it was because he thought I was disgusted with him. This all happened a year ago, he has started to open up again and that is the reason i have posted this, how do I handle his fantasies, his dreams without labelling him.

I'm not sure what you've read here at MS, but survivors don't typically become abusers.

Where on earth have you got this idea from? This is the reason he doesn't talk about what happened to him and the thoughts he has. I know (and it is my own fault) that I have posted about the bad parts of our friendship/relationship ( I don't know, you tell me? that is why I joined here.)

I may have hail and brimstone rained down on me for this, but it is NOT NORMAL for a sexually healthy male to fantasize about his little sister when having sex. I'm scared to even ask how old is his little sister. Perhaps my mainstream sexuality has created some prudishness, but his proclivities ARE disgusting, and I'm freaking out that you don't recognize that.

I have not said, nor has anyone else that he is a sexually healthy male, of course he isn't! As you said he is sending crystal clear signs. And he doesn't have a 'little sister'! His story is for him to tell but I know he was abused by babysitters who he later found out where sister and brother thats where i believe the incesteous element comes in.

P.S. You are NOT one of the lucky ones. There is nothing good about your situation. Supporters are those whose survivors are working toward their recovery with us by their sides. We support by drawing the line in the sand, by setting firm boundaries that will NOT be crossed. We who consider ourselves lucky are those who are no longer victims of fall out from our survivor's trauma. This calls for taking off the rose-colored glasses we all wore and pulling up our big girl panties. In accomplishing this, we no longer lower our standards for our beloved, we raise our standards and help our loved one climb up to them. There's no "luck" involved in the process.

I never said I was lucky, I am most certainly not. He kept this all inside for 30 years and i had to meet him as this all came to the surface. If you want to put a label on us it would have to be described by almost everyone as 'f**k buddy, so now please tell me how I can be his buddy.

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#398071 - 05/22/12 01:39 PM Re: Sex and Fantasies "Trigger Warning" [Re: lynnemarie]
lucylives Offline


Registered: 04/07/11
Posts: 357
Hi Lynne,
I have read several of your posts about your friend. I, like many wives on here, have been thrown into some incredibly painful situations with our husbands but they are our HUSBANDS and we have alot invested in our lives with them. I would never want to sound judgmentsal because i certainly wouldn't want anyone judging me about staying in a relationship with someone who has done the things he has done but WHY ARE YOU IN THIS RELATIONSHIP? You are settling for crumbs! You deserve better.

A relationship based on texts? WTF? That isn't a relationship. Let me tell you, if I knew as much as you do now before I got married, I wouldn't have gotten married. I would have run for the hills. I deserve a man who is present and healthy and so do you.

keeping you from his friends and family? If someone did that to me, I would suspect that they are married. I am sure he isn't but that is a huge red flag.

If I were in your shoes, I wouldn't invest too much time into figuring any of this crap out. I am trying not to invest too much time into the why"s of my husband's behaviour but investing in the why and how's of my attitudes and dysfunction which led me to marrying someone so sick (though it was all hidden from me). There is something about me that made me miss all the red flags. My goal is to figure out why and how this happened.

Disappointed, I don't understand why you invest so much time and effort and why you are jealous of us? U are not tied to this man, why invest so much time?

My husband, too, had some fantasies like the ones described. I am a very sexually openminded person but that is just something I had to say no too. It would make me feel weird. I won't do anything that makes me feel creepy but that is just me.

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#398073 - 05/22/12 02:48 PM Re: Sex and Fantasies "Trigger Warning" [Re: lucylives]
lynnemarie Offline


Registered: 04/29/12
Posts: 22
Hi lucylives

I understand, we are not married, have no children together no reason to invest in this relationship/friendship what ever you want to label it. I admire the strenght you wife's must have for your husbands. You could walk away anytime, same as me.

As previously stated I would never knowing indulge in his incesteous fantasies because that would be wrong, I have asked for help into how I cope with them.
Maybe this is not the place for me.

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#398074 - 05/22/12 02:51 PM Re: Sex and Fantasies "Trigger Warning" [Re: lynnemarie]
Gretta Offline


Registered: 09/17/11
Posts: 239
Lynnmarie,
I want to state that my husband as a result of his abuse has disturbing fantasies, for example more recently, he is one of his abusers. It wrecks havoc on our sex life. Having sex with your little sister is disturbing and denying that is not helping anyone. I think it's great you are trying to be understanding but don't avoid the hard true facts. He needs to go to therapy so he can gain the skills to deal with this fantasies. If you were my sister I would tell you to run for the hills. Only you can make that decision but Esposa is right Don't overlook your gut feelings.

Good Luck!


Edited by Gretta (05/22/12 02:53 PM)

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#398075 - 05/22/12 02:56 PM Re: Sex and Fantasies "Trigger Warning" [Re: lynnemarie]
Gretta Offline


Registered: 09/17/11
Posts: 239
You need to listen, be kind and be honest. BUT He needs therapy and needs to show a willingness to change. That is all we can ask for with our survivor men. Anything short of that is not fair to your relationship and you should run.

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#398076 - 05/22/12 03:11 PM Re: Sex and Fantasies "Trigger Warning" [Re: Gretta]
lynnemarie Offline


Registered: 04/29/12
Posts: 22
Hi Gretta
I know he needs help but he won't admit it at the moment. I know that fantasing about having sex with your little sister is disturbing and so does he, I am not denying it and niether does he.
But my question is how do I help him?
I KNOW he would never hurt anyone, but how do i steer him in the right direction? How do I make it his decision? His fantasies are what fuels him at the moment. i want him to feel that I am a safe person to do this with, I am the first point for him.

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#398086 - 05/22/12 04:41 PM Re: Sex and Fantasies "Trigger Warning" [Re: lynnemarie]
whome Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/07/11
Posts: 1734
Loc: Johannesburg South Africa
HI LM

Gee you got a tongue lashing here, but remember that a lot of the ladies here have been through a lot of pain and really, out of love are trying to help you not go through this. So although the comments may seem harsh, really they are trying to spare you.

The question asked is "how do I help him" Again read my first post and make sure that you are taking care of yourself. Once you are sure that you are strong enough, well then you can try to help him.
How to help him is that you need him to know that he is not alone, that this has happened to many many other men. Not all men are ready to face the truth, many even once they see the truth still don't believe it, so there is no guarantee that he will seek help.
Try and point him to this web site, it is the best tool to healing from CSA. The other options are to buy him the books such as evicting the perpetrator, leaping of mountains, and there is another one that slips my mind written by Mike Lew.

I hope that this calms the situation and that you will stay with us, knowing that what is said is said with the utmost care and love.
Heal well
Martin
_________________________
Matrix Men South Africa
Survivors Supporting Each other
Matrix Men Blog

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#398088 - 05/22/12 04:54 PM Re: Sex and Fantasies "Trigger Warning" [Re: lynnemarie]
lucylives Offline


Registered: 04/07/11
Posts: 357
I am sorry if I sounded harsh. I still have some bitter feelings about the situation I find myself in. Not just living with someone with CSA, but with Sex addiction, alcoholism and financial problems. All of which were never disclosed to me before marriage which is why if I wasn't tied to him by marriage, the truth is I would have run. We have kids, we have debt together, we ahve a life together, we are a family. Our kids are a family. It is a tuff situation to be in. Most importantly, in spite of all the problems, I see so many good things about my husband. He is my confidant, my constant companion, the person I share my day to day life with. It is very difficult to just walk away and the truth is, there are so many things I would miss about him.

As for the incest fantasies, if yu don't want to do it, just say no. That is what I did. I may have compromised my values by staying in a relationship with someone who has done the things to me that he has done but I ceertainly will not go down any path sexually that I don't want to.

As for the thoughts of incest he has while making love to you....you can't control that but one thing that has worked for me is that I all but insist my husband keep his eyes open and on me during sex. That way I know he is present and not "acting out" with me. that is the best I can do.

Sometimes I am really jealous of the girlfriends on here because you know going in waht is going on while you still have a chance to not get into marriage. You have more information before you get in too deep. That makes me envious. Yes, you can easily walk out on a marriage but when you are married with children, everything matters and everything affects them. I don't want my daughters to think marriage is just something you get in and then jump out when it gets difficult but I also don't want them to think that you should ever stay in an abusive relationship that isn't right for them. I am at a crossroads constantly.

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#398090 - 05/22/12 05:05 PM Re: Sex and Fantasies "Trigger Warning" [Re: lynnemarie]
herowannabe Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/01/11
Posts: 386
Loc: USA
Quote:
If you want to put a label on us it would have to be described by almost everyone as 'f**k buddy, so now please tell me how I can be his buddy.


Ohhhhhh! I apologize for having misunderstood. I was of the impression that this was someone you loved and wanted to have a relationship- maybe marriage with. F*** Buddies I understand! I have my doctorate in F*** Buddies because my husband had some! I can help you with this!

F*** Buddy is synonomous with Blow Up Doll and Vibrator. A prostitute could be referred to as a F*** Buddy. To be a good F*** Buddy, you don't even need to BE there- just leave your sex organs on the bed and go do your laundry. You won't be missed so long as you leave behind the only part of you that matters to your F*** Buddy!

My husband had a couple F*** Buddies whom he paid big dollars in return for the f*** (What is it that you're getting from your F*** Buddy?).

As a survivor of CSA, my husband was short-circuited in his emotional and sexual maturity. Like your guy, he wanted to feel "empowered". He'd hidden dysfunction for so long that it was bubbling to the top- trying to overtake his "other life", the one I lived in. In the trauma survivor world, this is called "acting out" and "numbing".

The F*** Buddy who f***ed him the best was the one he kept for 1-1/2 years, and was actually a member of my family. Like your guy is doing, he kept her and their relationship hidden. Like you and your guy, he communicated with her via text and stolen hours at a hotel, or in her bedroom when I was sound asleep, or in his car during his lunch hour at work, etc. He even faked a "hunting trip" to get a F*** from her.

As he sunk deeper and deeper into his acting out (what I am certain your guy is doing with you), he became enslaved to vodka, which anesthesized his conscience enough to allow him to continue on with his secret life, which kept him busy enough to avoid the real issue of his CSA.

Like you, his F*** Buddy was the only human being he'd ever told of his abuse, which occured as a teenager who was homeless and prostituted. Why on earth would he have told her and not his own wife? Or a counselor? Or a clergyman? Or a friend? Or his parents? Because with her, he had no fear of hiding the secrets he'd carried silently due to his misplaced shame. He could tell her about his dark side because she was just as sick as he was. She'd been abused as a child, was completely confused about her sexuality, had absolutely no boundaries, and had learned that sex was for getting things she wanted. It wasn't "making love". It was a F***.

She SAW him dying before her eyes. She KNEW he was drinking daily and had stopped eating. She KNEW he'd begun to supplement her with paid prostitutes and KNEW that he could give me- her son's grandmother- disease, maybe death. But what she wanted was more important than his well-being or hers. And to my husband, what he wanted was more important than her well-being or his.

LM, if I knew someone was mentally unhealthy, I would not engage in mind games with them. I wouldn't provoke them. I would know better. If I knew someone was physically unhealthy, I would not allow them to ignore their health by not getting medical attention. If I knew someone was sexually unhealthy, as you know your guy is, I WOULD NOT ENGAGE IN SEXUAL ACTIVITY WITH THEM. I would know better, and you must know better, too.

My husband's F*** Buddies were fine with remaining in that role as they reaped rewards from it. They could not help him because they were as sick and/or selfish as he was. If you remain in the role of F*** Buddy, you are no more helpful than a junkie exclaiming how much they want to help another junkie stop using the drugs they're giving him.

You can't cure this guy. You, nor any supporter on this site can. Only a trained professional can help him- IF he wants the help, and you've not indicated he has that desire to heal- only to act out. You can stick a gold star on his head every time he tells you of a fantasy or hides from you for a month, but you are ONLY exacerbating the problem and are increasing his shame and self-loathing.

What you can do to steer him to get help is to respond to his texts with "www.malesurvivor.org". Period. If you want to help this guy, give him a list of CSA-trained counselors and keep your panties on. If you want to help this guy, help yourself because something inside of you is preventing you from seeing your worth AND his.

Or, you can remain his F*** Buddy. But if that's what you choose, you're right, you're in the wrong place. I'm sure there is a plethora of websites that can condition you to not be bothered by being used for sex.

BTW, I disagree with Lucy. I'm not so sure this guy isn't already married, but if he's not, I'll bet my arse he's in a committed relationship with a woman whom he knows would NEVER settle for what you're getting.

The best of luck to you-
herowannabe
_________________________


For I know the plans I have made for you. Plans to give you a future and a hope. Jeremiah 29:11


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#398105 - 05/22/12 08:08 PM Re: Sex and Fantasies "Trigger Warning" [Re: lynnemarie]
Esposa Offline
F&F Greeter
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/19/11
Posts: 675
Loc: NJ
If he's married, then definitely run. I think my husband uses the verbs NUMB and HIDE to describe his former fuck buddy. Ain't nothing good there, not even a BUDDY.

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#398118 - 05/22/12 09:45 PM Re: Sex and Fantasies "Trigger Warning" [Re: lynnemarie]
Julia Offline


Registered: 11/05/08
Posts: 59
Lynnemarie,

I went back and read all you posted before answering. I could be wrong but I think you feel more for your survivor than just a f**k buddy, if that is all he is to you I doubt you'd be here.

I've known my Survivor friend since we were 15. When he was younger his issues weren't as noticable as they are now in his 40's.... once he started to remember more of what was done to him. We broke up long ago but he is in my life now as a friend.

There have been times through the years where the majority of our communicating was done via text, before I understood why he preferred texting I was frustrated and questioned my importance in his life. In the begining I felt he was lying and hiding because like you and your ex, he kept us a secret. I was wrong. His mother and brother knew about me. He was afraid for us to come out as a couple because he had failed in a marriage and past relationships. He also lied a lot. Important things and insignifigant things he'd lie to me about. I fell into picking things apart and jumping to conclusisons because he had hurt me in the past. 85 percent of the time I was right, 15 percent of the time I wasen't. It was one of the many reasons we broke up.

You have found yourself in a relationship that doesn't make sense. Your friend, isn't capable of maintaining a healthy friendship or a healthy serious relationship until he gets help. He has confided in you, several times..... from my own experience with my friend, this is huge. I would venture to guess he considers you a friend maybe more. Maybe he struggles knowing himself, he probably second guesses what he feels, what he wants and what he is comfortable with. You said he is afraid of committment? He will continue to come to you and run from you.

My advice to you would be, if you want to support him as a friend, then I would stop having sex with him. He'd probably continue keeping you a secret and acting out with you sexually, not neccessairly to hurt or betray you but because it's the only way he knows. His boundaries are nonexsistant that is why your's has to be steady, clear and strong. This will keep you from falling into what you've fallen into now, and it is showing him by example what a healthy friendship is and it will confuse him less. If you want a serious relationship down the road with him that involves sex and a committment, I'd make it clear that he needs to get into therapy. It is the only way he will aquire the tools he so desperately needs to maintain and enjoy a healthy, loving relationship.

Now that time has gone by, I can see much clearer now. I can see where I misunderstood him. He had a whole different set of rules. He viewed things differently than I did, his version of love was completely opposite of mine. He wasen't always trying to decieve or hurt me... he was desperately trying to read me, make me happy, keep me from leaving him, appearing "normal" himself and going about it in the very worst of ways. He was surviving the best and the only way he knew how to.

I'd strongly suggest you think about what you want in a relationship and what he is capable of giving you. If what you decide on is friendship, prove him right.... that his judgement that he questions constantly, was right this time. That he trusted the right person in telling you about his abuse. That he is safe and it is why that untill he understands his own fantasies you won't partake in them. That you will do anything in the world to help him but not lift a finger to hurt either one of you. Help him find a quailified therapist and/or a website like malesurvivor.org. That you'll listen without judgement what he wants to share with you and only what he wants to share. Encourage him, cheer him on but don't be a part of anything that could keep the both of you stuck in the same or that could hurt either one of you. I believe you care about him a great deal.

Good luck
Love,
Julia

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#398119 - 05/22/12 09:56 PM Re: Sex and Fantasies "Trigger Warning" [Re: lynnemarie]
mmfan Offline


Registered: 09/25/11
Posts: 114
Hi Lynnemarie,

You sound like a caring supporter, and non-judgmental which is exactly what a survivor needs.

People (survivors or not) have a HUGE spectrum of fantasies. They can be especially frightening and disturbing for a survivor. It sounds like he's facing and exploring these for the 1st time, and gentle support of him allowing him to talk it through, without judgement, I think could be VERY healing for him.

Not many of us survivors (I am female btw) get the compassion, understanding and non-judgement in the bedroom that would allow us to truly feel safe facing our demons and healing them.

If you're comfortable with X in the bedroom, great. If X seriously freaks you out, makes you feel bad or uncomfortable then draw a line. It doesn't matter if you "should" or "shouldn't" feel comfortable with X, your feelings are what matter.

Boundaries don't have to be conveyed in a judgemental way. All you can do is be as gentle and nonjudgemental as you can. If he freaks out and shuts down when you issue a gentle "position statement," that isn't your fault.
Hopefully at some point he'll seek professional help, these issues are very complex and that professional guidance can be so helpful.

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#398139 - 05/23/12 12:02 AM Re: Sex and Fantasies "Trigger Warning" [Re: herowannabe]
lynnemarie Offline


Registered: 04/29/12
Posts: 22
Calm yer barm there herowannabe

Obviously I have triggered something in you, and I'm sorry for that. Your right I can't cure him, never said I could. My fella doesn't drink or do drugs but he is a workaholic, he's been in hospital twice in the last year because he has literally run himself into the ground. These fantasies burn through his mind to the point where he can't sleep. I can see he is slowly destroying himself and I don't even live with him. If listening to his fantasies even if it is by text allows him some sense of relief then I will listen.
Again I apologise if I have upset you.

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#398147 - 05/23/12 12:34 AM Re: Sex and Fantasies "Trigger Warning" [Re: lucylives]
lynnemarie Offline


Registered: 04/29/12
Posts: 22
Hi lucylives

I'm sorry about my comments it was flippant of me. Of course marriage is a huge commitment and it was wrong of me to say you could just walk away. But to be be honest most of the advice I am getting is if your not married then walk/run away. It's not helpful! How can I walk away from someone who is in pain.
There is no need to be envious, you have a commitment.
Take care

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#398152 - 05/23/12 12:59 AM Re: Sex and Fantasies "Trigger Warning" [Re: lynnemarie]
lynnemarie Offline


Registered: 04/29/12
Posts: 22
Julia & mmfan

Thank you, i was begining to lose the faith.

Alot of what you have said makes sense. He too has two failed marriages behind him, I know his second wife was sexually very adventurous but she also cheated on him alot.
His self worth is shattered and I know he has a hard time reconciling himself.
As far as the fantasies go he has a whole plethora of them and (even before I knew of the abuse) I have always said what thoughts are not for me. As far as the incest fantasies go,just to clear it up once and for all I have never indulged him in those, he has told me after the fact and I'm glad he has felt safe enough to tell me. I know they eat away at him and he pushes himself to the brink of exhastion to get away from them but sometimes they overtake him which I think is what happened that night.
I know he needs professional help but I can't brow beat him with it. It has taken 12 months for him to start to open up again so this is very early on and I don't want to frighten him off.

I understand that mixed signals are being sent by both parties by our intimate relationship and this is my area to work on.

Thank you again for your supportive and non judgmental comments.

take care

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#398199 - 05/23/12 03:56 PM Re: Sex and Fantasies "Trigger Warning" [Re: lynnemarie]
whome Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/07/11
Posts: 1734
Loc: Johannesburg South Africa
HELLOOOOOOOO

I WILL TYPE THIS IN BOLD.

IS HE RECEIVING TREATMENT, IS HE IN THERAPY???

Please don't try and be his therapist.
Please guide him toward a therapist.
Please look after YOURSELF.

To all the others that have responded to this post. Please stick to the basic rules.
Advise those in pain from your OWN EXPERIENCE AND PERSPECTIVE.
Don't lecture and DON'T instruct.
Do all in love knowing that the person posting is already IN PAIN

Heal well all
Martin
_________________________
Matrix Men South Africa
Survivors Supporting Each other
Matrix Men Blog

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#398205 - 05/23/12 04:53 PM Re: Sex and Fantasies "Trigger Warning" [Re: lynnemarie]
mmfan Offline


Registered: 09/25/11
Posts: 114
Lynnemarie don't lose heart. It sounds like you're feeling your way through this with care and compassion, that won't lead you astray. smile

I know firsthand that we can't make our survivors go to therapy, mine refuses to go either. It's not our responsibility to "make" them go, anyway! They'll go if and when they are ready!
That doesn't stop me from getting very frustrated at times -because what's inside his head is so complex, and I feel ill-equipped to deal with it at times.

Whome, I love your phrase, "Do all in love," that is beautiful advice for everything in life. smile

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#398210 - 05/23/12 06:04 PM Re: Sex and Fantasies "Trigger Warning" [Re: lynnemarie]
Esposa Offline
F&F Greeter
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/19/11
Posts: 675
Loc: NJ
Here's my own experience and my own perspective... all from love and a place of compassion....

LIVING WITH A SURVIVOR NOT IN RECOVERY IS A SCARY PLACE TO BE.

My opinion. The thing about recovery, I have found, is that there are things going on, feelings, thoughts, behaviors, that we do not even know about (as supporters).

No one can make someone else get help. BUT, we can set up our own boundaries and expectations - and they can decide to respect them or not. In my OPINION (from a place of love), NOT HAVING BOUNDARIES OR COMMUNICATED EXPECTATIONS HURTS A SURVIVOR MORE THAN IT HELPS.

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#398270 - 05/24/12 05:24 AM Re: Sex and Fantasies "Trigger Warning" [Re: whome]
lynnemarie Offline


Registered: 04/29/12
Posts: 22
Hi whome, I'm sorry I haven't replied to you just got caught up in everything.

To answer your first question, No my fella isn't in therapy for his abuse. At the moment it doesn't seem like an option. I believe he may know about this site as he once said he had read stories about abuse most of them made him feel bad but some had turned him on. whether he ever joined I don't know.

Now to answer you second question:

We'd been seeing each other for 7 Months before he disclosed. At first it was nothing to kinky, hell you could read worse in Cosmo! It was exciting to begin with, I suppose beginnings always are, but I have an imagination too, but sometimes he could be very full on and the moods about sex and and my own imagination made no sense and got very confusing.
I knew he had suffered from depression and low self esteem so i thought this was the reason for the moods and his need to be wanted.
As time went on things escalated, he sent me a story about a threesome, I laughed it off and said no thanks. I asked him if he had tried something like that before and thats when everything started to come out. The things he had tried with his ex wife and finally the abuse.
After he disclosed things took on a whole new meaning. He started to get more elaberate in his stories and I felt awful for the things I had said to him, but he enjoyed it and its hard to reconcile that. I pulled back for a while but this got him more frustrated and he thought I didn't like him anymore and said he regretted telling me.
I read books, trawlled the internet visited forums but it seems this particular behaviour is not the norm. Most partners reported that their bf/gf wife/husband didn't want sex at all, their problems included drink/drugs/inappropriate relationships emotional and physical, non of which I was facing. Now every story he tells the first thing that pops in my head is how will this affect him, everything I say to him has to be carefully thought out, but that can be hard to do.

I know he is trying to shape me into something, but I'm not sure he really knows who he wants me to be. He was/is attracted to me for what I stand for. He says I'm loving and kind my kids and family mean the world to me. All I know is that if I do become the person his fantasies want me to be, I will no longer be the person he wants.

I posted here because I genuinally want advice and didn't mean to offend anyone.

Aplogise again for taking so long to answer.

Take care


Edited by lynnemarie (05/24/12 05:39 AM)

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#398272 - 05/24/12 07:11 AM Re: Sex and Fantasies "Trigger Warning" [Re: lynnemarie]
whome Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/07/11
Posts: 1734
Loc: Johannesburg South Africa
Hehehehe You guys are so funny.

Sorry I just feel that the subject was getting a little heated and personal. Thanks for your message Esposa, you are so right about the boundaries, but the most important factor is that the person is in therapy or recovery.
So Lynmarie, there is a lot o=f really valuable info coming through here.
Remember that essentially his healing is not your problem. If you give him the info and show him the effects and he still does not want to go to therapy, then I would suggest that you sever ties, for your own sanity.

Heal well
Martin
_________________________
Matrix Men South Africa
Survivors Supporting Each other
Matrix Men Blog

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#398278 - 05/24/12 07:58 AM Re: Sex and Fantasies "Trigger Warning" [Re: lynnemarie]
Sailor John Offline


Registered: 10/04/11
Posts: 307
Loc: Newfoundland & Labrador
Hi lynnemarie,

First things first. If you are going to help your boyfriend, you have to first and foremost look after yourself. If that means leaving him, do it; if it means going for a coffee with the "girls," do it; if it means going for a walk, do it or whatever helps you, do it. If it means nudging him to go for therapy, do it even though he will resent it at first.

Having stated the above, everything about his recovery must be on his timeline. He spent years getting to where he is; his treatment also can take years. He obviously trusts you completely because if he didn't, he would never have told you about his abuse. He will need a support group and you could make an excellent shoulder to cry on or somebody to just talk to when he needs to. Ideally he would have several people he trusts enough to just vent at.

Set your boundaries and DO NOT even bend them a little. If you bend them, you are giving in to him and he will immediatly sense this and push more and more. By all means, give him support, but not in any way that you are not comfortable to do.

Remember, he has been living with this secret for a long time and has blocked out many memories and made himself a "different" person to try and hide the "person" that was abused.

For those of us that were abused, there are many side effects we try to work through. Low self esteem, fear, shame, humiliation, fear of sex, questioning of sexual orientation, excessive sex needs, lack of intimacy, promiscous sex, being asexual; the list goes on and on.

You both are heading down a long and bumpy road with many detours. Just remember that even the longest detour eventually leads back to the main road.

Good luck to both of you as you start this long and difficult journey to recovery.
_________________________
I will mourn the teenager I never was and strive to make that dot of light way out in the far reaches of the end of the tunnel turn into a bright sun.

WE ARE NOT VICTIMS. WE ARE THE SURVIVORS!!!

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#398282 - 05/24/12 08:53 AM Re: Sex and Fantasies "Trigger Warning" [Re: lynnemarie]
peroperic2009 Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/09/11
Posts: 3599
Loc: South-East Europe
Hi Lynnemarie,
Your thread is very interesting. And it seems that you got a lot of different perspectives and thoughts related to recovery. Being available and interested to listen is great help for any survivor. Problems related to survivors and sexuality are too complex for some simple approach and for me it is imposable to give some ďtipsĒ related to those issues. But as Martin-Whome said we can try to exchange our experiences.
As Iím currently working some stuff related to sexual feelings and fantasies I would like to share part of it just to give you some additional insight what is happening in my mind and my sexuality. Although it is nothing like your case (Iím not in relationship) it could be useful for you to read it.

----Trigger warning----

As you said: ďMost partners reported that their bf/gf wife/husband didn't want sex at all, their problems included drink/drugs/inappropriate relationships emotional and physical, non of which I was facing. ď
Please be aware that there is some connection in all those activities. It is escape from reality by doing some high drive or even dangerous acts. Of course that we all have different personalities and we look in different places for those escapes. Thing is that survivors in most cases trough all that trying to reproduce some traumatic event.
In my case it is related to masturbation and excessive watching of porn, something that is considered as non harmful let say, but obviously there are situations when it is not so healthy either.
Practically I sometimes went into fantasies about gay sex (even I consider myself as heterosexual) and somehow Iím trying to replay some aspects of my original abuse Ė even I hate all that. In one way it is compulsive - against my free will and destructive behavior in its nature. So be aware that even some harmless form of sexual release as masturbation is, sometimes it could be overwhelming, compulsive and out of control.
And there are many triggering situations that could be dangerous for me; I donít talk about some scenes that could be arousing and challenging for me. Iím talking rather about emotions that are connected to my behavior and that are laying somewhere in background. Those feelings are causing me flipping from reality. And I as survivor have to heavy work on myself to become fully aware of those processes. Iím learning about connections between my feelings and acts. For example one of feelings that drives me into compulsiveness is helplessness in some difficult situations, in such state Iím easily prone to escape in world of fantasies.
That all what I said doesnít mean that I canít masturbate or whatsoever, it is thing that I have to be careful and watch on my feelings and try not to loose myself to compulsiveness and unhealthy sexuality (in terms that reinforces my negative self-image). It could be completely same in case that Iíve been sexually involved with some other person - sexual fantasies could be healthy and good and not otherwiseÖ
So learning to accept my sexual feelings and finding way to choose how to act is main goal in my haling/recovery. Ö It is much easier to write it than to accomplish it. I have to nourish some positive aspects of sexuality/feelings and not those destructive and negative in any case. Off course there is some long road in front of me.
I hope that this would be helpful for you.
Please keep sharing your views, worries and questions, there are a lot of things that we all have to learn!
Be well!
Pero
_________________________
My story

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#398305 - 05/24/12 01:09 PM Re: Sex and Fantasies "Trigger Warning" [Re: lynnemarie]
peroperic2009 Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/09/11
Posts: 3599
Loc: South-East Europe
Just one more thing Lynnemarie, please consider to ask question from your post to Ask the Sex Doc part of board (http://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthreads.php?ubb=postlist&Board=76&page=1).
I would really like to see some expert's thoughts about this issue - giving support to someone who has some "strange" sexual fantasies. It could be helpfull to many of us.
Here is the link to send him PM (that is the channel for asking questions to Doc Joe Kort in that part of board) if you would like it:
http://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthreads.php?ubb=sendprivate&User=8361
Be well!
Pero
_________________________
My story

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#398309 - 05/24/12 02:53 PM Re: Sex and Fantasies "Trigger Warning" [Re: lynnemarie]
lynnemarie Offline


Registered: 04/29/12
Posts: 22
Hi whome

haha yes it was getting abit heated! But i suppose that is not a bad thing, kind of makes me realise what I am up against.

Hi Sailor John

For him it has been over 30 years, and I don't think it came bubbling to the surface I think it exploded into his life. When he diclosed he told me everything from different times in his life all in one go. It would be very naive of me to say I know how much of a bumby road it will be because I won't know how bad it is til we get to the end and look back if that ever happens.
I understand the concept of self care and boundries but very hard to actually put in place but that is for me to work on, very very hard.

Hi Pero

Thank you, I think I understand what you mean. I know the 'darker' side of his fantasies come when he is under extreme stress.

Thanks for the link, it would be great to get some thoughts on the issue. I don't know how I would share that with the rest of you tho?

Many thanks to all that have posted, its good to know I'm not going mad (well not any more than usual) and I'm not alone

Take care everyone

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#398310 - 05/24/12 03:16 PM Re: Sex and Fantasies "Trigger Warning" [Re: lynnemarie]
peroperic2009 Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/09/11
Posts: 3599
Loc: South-East Europe
Originally Posted By: lynnemarie
Hi Pero
Thank you, I think I understand what you mean. I know the 'darker' side of his fantasies come when he is under extreme stress.
Thanks for the link, it would be great to get some thoughts on the issue. I don't know how I would share that with the rest of you tho?

Don't worry about this Lynnemarie. In that part of board questions are sent to Doc and he makes threads with questions and answers. So after he post it it becomes available to all of us here at MS.
In that part of board all threads are like that (check it) and additionally threads are not open for our comments.
Cheers
Pero
PS: It is great to see you cheerful and happy Lynnemarie, keep your spirit high like that smile !
_________________________
My story

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#398317 - 05/24/12 04:15 PM Re: Sex and Fantasies "Trigger Warning" [Re: peroperic2009]
lynnemarie Offline


Registered: 04/29/12
Posts: 22
Thanks Preo

I have sent a message to Doc so hope something comes of it.

Wish you all the best in your jounery.

Take care

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#398321 - 05/24/12 04:45 PM Re: Sex and Fantasies "Trigger Warning" [Re: mmfan]
lynnemarie Offline


Registered: 04/29/12
Posts: 22
Hi mmfan

Thank you, I know exactly what you mean by getting frustrated and feeling ill equipped.

Take care

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#398392 - 05/25/12 08:51 AM Re: Sex and Fantasies "Trigger Warning" [Re: lynnemarie]
Tomcruise Offline


Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 1
[Content not related to topic]


Edited by ModTeam (05/27/12 11:17 AM)
Edit Reason: Spam

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#398395 - 05/25/12 09:33 AM Re: Sex and Fantasies "Trigger Warning" [Re: Julia]
Disappointed Offline


Registered: 08/11/09
Posts: 540
Loc: U.S.A.
Hi Julia,

Just read your post, and I want to thank you for it. Time gives perspective and yours is informing my decision on the course of action with my friend. Always learning with this stuff. Who knew trauma could make a person sooooo complex??!!

So thanks!

And from Lucylives:

"Disappointed, I don't understand why you invest so much time and effort and why you are jealous of us? U are not tied to this man, why invest so much time?"

I find this an odd attitude, an odd question. Well, let's see.... I'm not married, so I don't have to spend a lot of time on kids or a husband.... If I had been abused as a child and had never told anyone, and found it REally hard to form permanent relationships with members of the opposite sex, and I had multiple personalities from the trauma, it would really be great if someone would show compassion to me, and have patience with me, and try to get to know me, while I floundered around, trying to function...

It's called "compassion." Maybe you've heard of it?

It doesn't hurt that he's further along in many ways than some men. I mean, he's winning the battle against alcohol and drugs, he's financially very successful, and is basically a reliable man. Not to say he doesn't have major issues, but he relentlessly struggles against these overwhelming challenges. Got to admire a man like that. Got to.

And why do I envy y'all? Very simple: Your men choose to spend the major portion of their time with you. My friend only wants to talk on the phone with me. If I had my choice, I'd rather be the one he spends his time with, and someone else talking to him on the phone. But I don't get to choose. I really like him. I'd much prefer to have dinner with him.

D.
_________________________
Female.

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#398404 - 05/25/12 04:35 PM Re: Sex and Fantasies "Trigger Warning" [Re: lynnemarie]
lucylives Offline


Registered: 04/07/11
Posts: 357
Thanks for explaining compassion, Disappointed. I wasn't sure what it meant but I do know what having compassion for myself is and that is not putting myself in situations that cause me so much pain and harm or damage my self esteem or with people who do not give me the kind of relationship i want and deserve. I deserve more than just a husband who chooses to spend the major portion of his time with me. I want all of him or none of him!!!! I will not settle for second best.

I will say I am one of the lucky ones. My husband is working very hard on his issues. I don't expect him to be perfect (except with truth and fidelity, there is no room for error) but to be working hard towards his recovery. We are getting better everyday but it is so FRICKING PAINFUL to live with this day in and day out.

Why does he only want to talk on the phone? And please don't say even in jest that you want to be the one he is having dinner with and him TALKING TO SOMEONE ELSE on the phone. You deserve better than that. We all do. If and when he is truly your man, you better hope he isn't talking to someone on the phone and sharing like that. That would be very painful. U deserve more.

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#398407 - 05/25/12 05:29 PM Re: Sex and Fantasies "Trigger Warning" [Re: lynnemarie]
LouLou Offline


Registered: 04/20/12
Posts: 35
I'll give my two-pence worth. My husband is my husband, however at times he feels like just my friend. It's painful and i wish i could go out to dinner with him and feel whole...but i can't. There are no competitions here. WE ARE ALL IN THIS SHIT TOGETHER, husbands, boyfriends or friends. It really doesn't matter. When you love someone who seems to know nothing other than to sacrifice anything that really should be important, then you know something is wrong.

I don't know the answers, hell, if i did, i could work out my own life!

I came here to unite, not to fight. We all deserve more...xx

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#398423 - 05/25/12 09:27 PM Re: Sex and Fantasies "Trigger Warning" [Re: lynnemarie]
Julia Offline


Registered: 11/05/08
Posts: 59
Lynnemarie,

I had that same feeling, that he was attempting to shape me into someone else. And not just through sex or fantasies but I started to pick things apart, watching what I said or making sure I kept the peace somehow.... I started to try reading him while I noticed him reading me. That is where our failing started. I got caught up in trying to understand where my boyfriend was coming from. I was more tollerant of what I shouldn't have been. I got lost in pleasing the unpleasable.....

I use to tell him that it was like he had this big Bob Barker wheel in his head and he spun it everyday but it always landed on something different.

Until your guy figures things out... who he is, what he likes, what he dosen't... how could either one of you know? That is why it is so important for you to remain true to yourself. Sometimes men who were sexually abused go to therapy, they slowly start to become the men they were meant to be. Maybe why some of these men reevaluate the relationships in their lives, why some even choose to end their relationships with significant others. And wouldn't that be something if you changed for him and when he got well he saw you as the broken one? I know you know this, sometimes it helps hearing it validated by someone else.

When my hair started to fall out..... yeah, it started falling out..... I started to take better care of myself. My ex saw my reluctance to continue the crazy as me being selfish and neglecting him (I didn't know he felt that at the time) he lied and said he understood. But behind my back he hooked up with someone who would partake in his fantasies. I found out and we were both devastated, my heart was broken and he was so ashamed. He told me that he was trying to keep me out of that mess, that he knew I was too good for it.

I guess you can say I've been both women. I was the secret he kept from most of his family, his friends, his children. And when we finally became a couple, when we were engaged and living together..... when we were a family..... That is when I got too close and he had a new phone friend. A f**k buddy. I called the woman. We weren't on the phone for 5 minutes when I realized it didn't even matter. I couldn't hate her. During our relationship when I found him on dating websites, or caught him cheating, I'd ask him why he would hurt me, what happened to the man I knew? He would respond, "Don't you think I want to be that man for you? I don't know why I do this. I hurt everyone I love and then they hurt me. This is why I was afraid to commit". Walkingsouth once told me that, "acting out can take some strange turns. In the end it all becomes ugly. Everything and everybody, especially oneself". I got out after that.

For my friend, he got tired of the ugly. He started therapy and he is slowly coming to be the man he was meant to be. My whole life, I have never been more proud of anyone like I am of him.

Remain true to yourself. Your friend will sink or swim, there is only so much you can do while he isn't actively seeking help. Expecting more from him is like waiting for a man with no hands to do a cartwheel... it just ain't going to happen. I find most women can't give themselves sexually to a man and not develop strong feelings for him. That is why I suggested not having sex. Take care of you first, always.

Love,
Julia

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#398426 - 05/25/12 09:48 PM Re: Sex and Fantasies "Trigger Warning" [Re: lynnemarie]
GoodHope Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/05/11
Posts: 413
I wish this thing had a "like" button. Perfection Julia. Perfection.
_________________________
Wife of a survivor

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#398448 - 05/26/12 04:18 AM Re: Sex and Fantasies "Trigger Warning" [Re: LouLou]
lynnemarie Offline


Registered: 04/29/12
Posts: 22
Hi LouLou

You are absolutely right it doesn't matter what kind of relationship we are in we are all here for the same reason. This has been enough of a heated topic already and think we're all losing sight of why we came here in the first place.

Hi lucylives

There are many different types of relationships, what works for one may be alien to someone else. When some one says "your not married so you don't have as much to invest" kinda sticks in the throat a little. If you are happy and secure in the type of relationship you choose then who is anyone to judge, but I do find that the ones who aren't secure tend to be the most defensive (did I just say that? lol)

Dissapointed,

You have every right not to be judge, it is your life to lead as you want. I admire your compassion and loyalty. You man sounds like he is working hard on himself. But dissappointed, I have heard about him and his achievements, tell me something about yours, what it is you want.
i have to agree with lucylives, you do NOT want the roles reversed, alot of ladies are here because they have built a live with their partners and they have confided in someone else, I'm not in that position so can only imagine how much that would hurt.
Finally, you are wrong, you always have a choice in everything you do, what to have for breakfast, what to wear before you leave the house, who you speak to, what you do. You always have a choice in the decisions you make XX
(Again, did I say that grin)


Edited by lynnemarie (05/26/12 07:01 AM)

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#398449 - 05/26/12 04:53 AM Re: Sex and Fantasies "Trigger Warning" [Re: Julia]
lynnemarie Offline


Registered: 04/29/12
Posts: 22
Hi Julia

Thank you I can relate to everything you are saying.

Most of are arguements are about how I don't understand what he wants from me, but when I ask him he has no answer.

I know with his first wife it was just them and their children, a perfect loving family life. With his second wife it was the complete opposite. She was very adventreous sexually. He seems caught between the two. Your analogy of the Bob Barker wheel is spot on.
And you are right if I give in to what he persives he wants he will view me as broken and no longer want me, I have know this for a while but your right sometimes you need it validated by someone else.
I think one of the reasons he keeps me secret is beacuse I know him and all the dark places he has been, he keeps me sperate so I don't 'infect?' the image he has built for himself. Another is he to believes he hurts everyne he loves and they hurt him so won't let me get to close, but I'm just guessing.
I know i have to take better care of myself, it is emotionally draining to think through every situation and conversation you have with someone and it is taking it's toll.
Take care

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#398479 - 05/27/12 03:17 AM Re: Sex and Fantasies "Trigger Warning" [Re: lynnemarie]
phoenix321 Offline


Registered: 09/26/11
Posts: 912
Loc: USA, FL
deleted


Edited by phoenix321 (07/16/12 10:51 PM)
_________________________
Phoenix

A guy opens the front door and sees a snail on his doorstep. He picks up the snail and throws it across the street in a neighbor's yard. A year later, the guy opens the front door and the same snail is on his doorstep. The snail says, "What the f*ck was that about?"

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#398494 - 05/27/12 11:25 AM Re: Sex and Fantasies "Trigger Warning" [Re: lynnemarie]
Disappointed Offline


Registered: 08/11/09
Posts: 540
Loc: U.S.A.
Hi LynnMarie:

Mike Lew's book discusses the compartmentalizing CSA survivors do.

Basically, he has one story he tells one group of people, another story he tells another, and he keeps them separate. Easier to keep everything straight that way.

Also, my friend has multiple personalities, so his mask mood hates me and doesn't want to be around me. I'm in good company though, because that mood also hates his own mood that I talk with...

Also, his mask mood is afraid his mask will slip when I'm around, and he'll be revealed to all as having a girlish mood. That thought MORTIFIES him! He's worked so hard to be seen as this masculine, successful, go-getter!

Anyway, these guys are complicated, no doubt.

Later,
D.
_________________________
Female.

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#398502 - 05/27/12 02:59 PM Re: Sex and Fantasies "Trigger Warning" [Re: lynnemarie]
Julia Offline


Registered: 11/05/08
Posts: 59
***** TRIGGER WARNING *****

Lynnemarie,

I think Phoenix has a good point, there is nothing abnormal with fantasies... we all have them. And between two consenting adults who have trust between them, partaking in the fantasy can be fun. I whole heartily agree. I have to admit that a tug of my hair, a slap on the ass and even a "bitch" can turn me on now and then. I for one would have had no problem throwing a white robe on and gluing two plates on either sides of my head in a Princess Leia fantasy. The part that I would have a problem with is where he'd want me to tie a lightsaber to my waist and rape him with it. That is the kind of place my boyfriend's fantasies were going. And since he was repeatedly raped by his uncle when he was a little boy, I refused to do that. When I refused he took his show on the road and found someone who would.

And I mean this with sincerity.... Phoenix when you wrote that fantasies shouldn't be fought but to analyze the why... you made sense to me. We write here at MS, trying to be of some help and most times you don't know if what you have to offer means anything to anyone. You phrasing it the way you did, it helped me. Thank you.

If your having sex with a survivor who isn't in therapy or seeking help, fantasies can be extremely tricky. And if your with a survivor and you haven't any commitment, he isn't seeking help and you are leaving yourself vulnerable to him sexually.... most times this will end up in emotional disaster. Especially if I am right in understanding your situation (Lynnemarie).

Love,
Julia

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#398575 - 05/28/12 04:12 AM Re: Sex and Fantasies "Trigger Warning" [Re: Julia]
phoenix321 Offline


Registered: 09/26/11
Posts: 912
Loc: USA, FL
deleted


Edited by phoenix321 (07/16/12 10:51 PM)
_________________________
Phoenix

A guy opens the front door and sees a snail on his doorstep. He picks up the snail and throws it across the street in a neighbor's yard. A year later, the guy opens the front door and the same snail is on his doorstep. The snail says, "What the f*ck was that about?"

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#398754 - 05/30/12 01:01 AM Re: Sex and Fantasies "Trigger Warning" [Re: lynnemarie]
Yellowbird Offline


Registered: 04/21/12
Posts: 27
Thank you all for the input on this subject. There is every reason as a supporter to get angry and resentful. When you reach the resent I believe is when you need to reach for your forgiveness. I am finding as a survivor and now a supporter that a person does need help in differentiating and not to confuse the two. I have found a peace in all that has been written by everyone here. I let my fiancť after his assault have one of his fantasies and I did enjoy it with him until he answered a text during our encounter. I at that time almost threw every toy at him and got dressed and walked out, but I didnít, I realized that it was just sex that we were having. And that is all it was to him. And I cannot judge or blame him for what he is feeling right now. I can for me, so as not to compromise myself, is to lay down my own rules, as I did when we were dating years ago. I gave him a 3 month rule when weíre dating in which he did not know about (OK, well, I fell 2 weeks short of the rule ;)). He did let me know that he is going to see counseling. I have not spoken to him as of yet of my boundaries and my will to abstain with commitment to him. I want to be a part of his sexual life but I canít if itís just sex. He has said he feels nothing and canít commit right now. And through all the reading I have done I understand. And I understand about me too. My hope and faith is not to lose this man. The man that I am still in love with, regardless of what has happened. And my hope and faith is to let go and let God.
_________________________
Without faith nothing is possible, with it everything is possible. You just have to believe.

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