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#396529 - 05/08/12 06:11 PM What do you wish other people knew about ASA
J.Bytendorp Offline
User
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/09/09
Posts: 43
Loc: Salt Lake CIty, Utah
I have been asked by Male Survivor to create an information sheet concerning ASA issues. I am bringing this to you to get your feedback and input before I write this. What I am looking for is information that you wish people would know when it comes to ASA. For example the handout for the CSA includes questions about how to protect someone from being abused or how to approach a boy who you suspect has been abused or what to do if a boy tells you they have been abused. I want this to be your voice and about ASA issues. I need this as soon as possible I will be writing the sheet in the next couple of days. If you want to send this in an email please do.

Josh Bytendorp

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#396544 - 05/08/12 09:47 PM Re: What do you wish other people knew about ASA [Re: J.Bytendorp]
CruxFidelis Offline


Registered: 06/16/10
Posts: 486
Loc: NJ
I wish people knew it existed, period. I certainly didn't until it happened to me.

Is this directed toward survivors or friends/family of survivors, or the professionals who work with them? One thing I wish people in general could understand is that male rape is not sex, it is about controlling the victim, and often the perpetrators use violence, deception and torture to achieve that end. One of the things I have a hard time is when professionals tell me that I was completely powerless to stop it, because being told I'm powerless just tears at the core of my being. I'm a man. I'm supposed to be strong & powerful, not weak or a victim. Part of me would rather blame myself because at least that would mean that I would have had the power to stop it.

One of the central things I wish people saw was my need to feel in control of my life. After having so much control taken from me, I crave it.
_________________________
“If a man wishes to be sure of the road he treads on, he must close his eyes and walk in the dark.”

- Saint John of the Cross

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#396551 - 05/08/12 10:53 PM Re: What do you wish other people knew about ASA [Re: J.Bytendorp]
TheTwoOfUs Offline


Registered: 11/03/11
Posts: 149
Loc: USA
I wish people wouldn't insult us or harass us for daring to open our mouths and say we were assaulted.

I wish people knew that it happens a LOT in the military.

I wish people could understand that it hurts us just as much as it does a woman or a girl or a young boy.

I wish people understood that telling us to "just get over it" is about as helpful as a spit in the bucket.

Flashbacks are real. They hurt.

I wish people understood that it doesn't matter HOW big we are, how much we weigh, what we do for a living, or how good we are at fighting. I wish people understood that it doesn't matter what gender we are - rape is still rape and it can and DOES happen!

I wish people could understand just how terrifying it is for some of us to leave our house anymore, simply because we never know who can be trusted and who can't.

There is paranoia. Fear. Anxiety.

There are nightmares. Phobias.

I wish we had some SOLID proffessional resources at our disposal. Therapists don't know what to DO with us! The cops think it's a joke, and it usually never even goes to a trial!

I have HUGE trust issues. HUGE touching issues. HUGE control issues. ALL of that needs to be made plain.

And I really wish people wouldn't equate an ejaculation with "wanting it." That hurts more than anything else I've had thrown at me... if I'd "wanted it" I wouldn't have been fighting it!!!

Hope this helps. I'm sure there's more but this is what comes to mind for me.


Edited by TheTwoOfUs (05/08/12 10:54 PM)
_________________________
Matthew

Adapt. Overcome. Survive.

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#396561 - 05/08/12 11:54 PM Re: What do you wish other people knew about ASA [Re: J.Bytendorp]
J.Bytendorp Offline
User
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/09/09
Posts: 43
Loc: Salt Lake CIty, Utah
Wow thank you two for what you have shared, It is very helpful. I believe that these will be going out to the general public. Male Survivor wanted to include one specifically for ASA because they do understand that you guys are not heard and that it is not talked about. I want this to be your voice not my voice, not the professionals voice. You guys are the ones who have lived it an experienced it.

Josh

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#396564 - 05/09/12 12:21 AM Re: What do you wish other people knew about ASA [Re: J.Bytendorp]
CruxFidelis Offline


Registered: 06/16/10
Posts: 486
Loc: NJ
I appreciate all that you're doing for us.

Another thing I wish people understood was just how isolating it is. There aren't any friends I have really told, and I know men who have gone decades without telling anyone. Only my wife and a handful of close relatives know--for me anyway. I have a very close friend and he comes to visit me a few times a week but there's this wall up because I can't tell him what happened. My wife is a survivor of rape & CSA, and his wife was raped when we were in college, so the two of us have bonded over having wives with survivor issues. He has no clue what happened to me 2 years ago and even though I know he's read a lot of books about survivors and is very into supporting his wife, I can't be sure he'd be able to wrap his mind around this happening to a man.

I feel this huge disconnect between me and most of the people who I called friends.

In my life, there's the me from before the assault, and then there's me after. Those selves are mutually exclusive. I might have the same social security # or address, but that's it.
_________________________
“If a man wishes to be sure of the road he treads on, he must close his eyes and walk in the dark.”

- Saint John of the Cross

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#396574 - 05/09/12 02:06 AM Re: What do you wish other people knew about ASA [Re: J.Bytendorp]
TheTwoOfUs Offline


Registered: 11/03/11
Posts: 149
Loc: USA
One other thing - it's just as much a case of rape if your attacker is female as it is if he's male. It is JUST as much of an assault! I am so so SO sick and tired of hearing how women "can't overpower men" or how they "can't be offendors".

"Can't" be my lilly white arse! Three of the eight that attacked myself and my sis were FEMALE. We were BOTH assaulted by BOTH genders. It wasn't "just" the males. This is a huge HUGE myth that people have about rape and rapists, that "all" rapists are male. Not. True. At. ALL. And it is a very, VERY damaging myth.

So yes. We can add that in as well, I suppose. Women can rape just as well as males can. Women can offend just as well as males can.

And one last thing for the night, I think -- the transmission of STD's through assault is very, VERY real. Sis and I are both living examples of this.

We live day to day, moment to moment, because that's all we can do.

Thank-you for putting this together. I hope it gets out to more people. And I really, really hope that it actually makes an impact and opens some people's eyes. I appreciate your efforts - thank you.


Edited by TheTwoOfUs (05/09/12 02:10 AM)
_________________________
Matthew

Adapt. Overcome. Survive.

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#396624 - 05/09/12 03:31 PM Re: What do you wish other people knew about ASA [Re: J.Bytendorp]
Anomalous Offline
Greeter Coordinator
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 03/07/10
Posts: 1339
Hi Josh,

This is an impromptu reply, but given the very short deadline by which to gather this information, I will attempt to answer your question.

As Pete (CruxFidelis) asked, it would be good to know who the target audience for this information is supposed to be. The replies will be different if this is for the general public vs. professionals.

Without rehashing everything that has been said on this subject, you should read this thread. Much of what you seek has already been stated elsewhere.

Regardless of when the abuse/ assaults took place, EVERYONE needs to know that men/ males who have been abused will NOT become abusers!!!!

I can not say that strenuously or loudly enough!!!

The knee-jerk reaction of J.Q. Public is to automatically accuse us of being abusers just becuase we were abused /assaulted. Look at how many guys here who have forcibly lost contact with their kids through the courts because attorneys spew this $h*t and judges accept it as true.

For information regarding the creation of, and the debunking of that myth, read this. Here are other myths about male rape which also need to be acknowledged, and debunked in the public consciousness.

A great injustice has been done to us as a result of that "original" research. Because of the "conclusion" that males who are abused/ assaulted go on to become victimizers, money for services (back in the 1970s) was withheld. The prevaling attitude that existed for decades was "why bother treating those who will just go on to abuse?" As a result, few treatment services are available to males. Many of the rape crisis centers in the United States REFUSE to provide services to males.

Sadly, for males in certain professions such as teaching, if their abuse/ assault becomes known, it is not uncommon for them to be forced out of their positions because of the "knowledge" that they will become abusers.

Abuse / assault experienced as an adult also comes with a de-masculinaztion -- by friends, lovers, and the general public. We are not any less men because of these experiences.

Nor do these things "make us" gay or happen because we are, or were, perceived as such.

I strongly suggest those invested in this project take the time to read the books I have listed on the ASA Resource List, or at least the two books which have the highest recommendations. Again, many of the answers you seek are there.

We are blamed for "letting" ourselves be abused (acts repeated over time, may or may not have more than one perp) and assaulted. We are told that we must have "wanted it" because we didn't "stop it." For guys who's body responded they are told that was "proof" that the acts were "consensual" and "wanted."

No, the only thing an erection proves is that, physiologically, the body works as designed. PERIOD.

Statements such as "it's (rape) is worse for females than it is for males" is a very sexist and veryignorant attitude. Rape is horrifice regardless of the target, or the perpetrator.

Just as women are "blamed" for wearing the "wrong thing" or "being in the wrong place," we, too, are blamed for "being in the wrong place," "imbibing," etc.

The bottom line is, the public prefers to blame the victims of abuse/ assaults rather than put the onus where it belongs ... on those who perpetrated these acts.

Professionals need to know this, and so much more. Being told things like "men can't be raped," or "perhaps you actually enjoyed it" are damaging beyond belief. Would such things be said to female survivors?

Get the sexism out of this!!!

Law enforcement also needs to take this seriously.

This is not a "lover's spat" or a situation between two (fill in the inappropriate adjective here), "so let them deal with it on their own," nor something for their locker room jokes or other acts of bad taste and "reasons" for their failure to uphold the law.

Frequently, the police turn a blind eye if they suspect one of the people is "gay," as though that somehow ameliorates the situation or makes it "okay." ALL reports of sexual violence need to be taken seriously, and the injured parties should be given the respect and dignity they deserve.

Medical professionals ... doctors, dentists, optometrists, etc. ALL need to realize that many of the men they see have experienced sexual abuse or assault. It is commonplace to expect a man to disrobe and to be ridiculed for any "resistance" or "modesty." Hospital personnel rarely consider a male patient's reluctance to be examined (not abuse/ assault related) might be due to something other than the guy just being "difficult." Unless a male is being seen specifically for sexual abuse related injuries/ problems, it is never considered that he might have been, or currently be experiencing abuse, and that is why he is fearful and reticent to be examined and touched.

Frankly, we are invisible, except to be the butt of jokes and villianized based on inaccurate conclusions drawn by a "reasearcher" more than 30 years ago.

The therapeutic community has accepted the words of the original researcher and then has put the subject of the victimization of males on the back burner.

Even Google searches of "Rape of Adult Males" and other such search terms return results of males being the PERPETRATORS, and not the other way around.

Sadly, the same type of results are obtained while searching the PsychInfo database used by psychology students and therapists.

The National definition of rape has not yet been changed to take gender out of it. It is a work in progress, but it has not yet happened. Currently, the FBI defines rape as a man penetrating a woman.

You ask "what do you with other people knew about ASA?"

Frankly, the answers would fill volumes.

The fast and short replies from a few here who are lucky enough to make their views known before the deadline are not able to fully decribe that which needs to be known.

The research into the sexual abuse and assualt of adult males is about forty years behind the research of that regarding women.

While some progress is being made, it is much too little and much too slow. Not enough people are interested in this subject.

One very disturbing facet of the abuse/ assault of adult males is what happens in prisons. That topic is discussed very little here, but it needs to be inlcuded in any research and any resources about adult male sexual abuse and assualt. Exclusion of any faction of adult males being sexually abused/ assaulted from the discourse hurts all of us.

There is a lot of information in this forum alone that will provid some of the answers you seek.

PM me if you would like to pursue further discussion.





Anomalous
_________________________
Acceptance on someone else's terms is worse than rejection.

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#396697 - 05/10/12 05:40 AM Re: What do you wish other people knew about ASA [Re: J.Bytendorp]
earlybird Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/17/10
Posts: 1007
Loc: WA USA
I would like to emphasize what has already been said. We, ASA men, are constantly chastised, mollified and marginalized by every organization (virtual or real) we turn to for assistance - a response many, if not most, adult raped men instinctively knew and fear would be the outcome if we were to speak out.

Until we address and resolve this issue (real or unreal) instead of ignoring it, I don’t see the point.


Edited by earlybird (05/10/12 05:53 AM)
_________________________
Balanced (My goal)

There is symmetry
In self-reflection
Life exemplified
Grace personified

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#401052 - 06/20/12 02:58 PM Re: What do you wish other people knew about ASA [Re: J.Bytendorp]
HappyDays Offline


Registered: 06/16/12
Posts: 28
I would like people to understand that men all men have feeling and emotions. The expression get over piss me off, do you get over having diabetes or were glass no. You work throught it, I been thinking lately when people have something like diabetes or in a wheel chair or what ever it might be, the seem understanding about it. But lord if a man show the signs of emotions the courage to I mean the true emotions that all MS have it wrong in today's world, that is just wrong. I would love to get more involved with speak to MS and possibley to none MS to speak out for us. We are OK just like everyone we just need to work on improving life for the great good.
_________________________
Anything and all things are possible when you understand the feelings coming from you heart

Courage, honor, respect = strength!!!!

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#401057 - 06/20/12 04:38 PM Re: What do you wish other people knew about ASA [Re: J.Bytendorp]
bodyguard8367 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/16/12
Posts: 1159
Loc: ""
""


Edited by bodyguard8367 (02/26/14 06:55 PM)
Edit Reason: SILENCED

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