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#396071 - 05/04/12 12:03 PM farewell church ... family?
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2503
Loc: Denver, CO
We used to sing
     we used to laugh
          we used to clap our hands

We used to cry
     we used to pray
          we used to bend our knees

We used to break bread
     we used to share meals
          we used to help one another

But now
     now that Iíve quit attending
          itís like I never was

Tell me

Did you fill my place in your heart
     as quickly as my place in the pew?

Or did I really ever have a place in your heart

at all?
_________________________
the story
††† https://1in6.org/men/bristlecone/mark-krueger/

Kirkridge - October 2008
Alta - September 2012
Alta - September 2013

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#396072 - 05/04/12 12:27 PM Re: farewell church ... family? [Re: MarkK]
JustScott Offline
Greeter Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 2582
I totally understand your sentiment.

Both my wife and I (while we still attend) have had the "fallen from grace" feeling at our church. She quit her job in the church office, and I decided I wanted nothing to do with future leadership in an organization that was more about money etc, so now we're pretty much on the outs.

Don't know what people thought before, but I care even less what they think now.

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#396076 - 05/04/12 01:48 PM Re: farewell church ... family? [Re: MarkK]
MarkK Offline
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Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2503
Loc: Denver, CO
all i did was decide i no longer wanted to be on the worship team.
_________________________
the story
††† https://1in6.org/men/bristlecone/mark-krueger/

Kirkridge - October 2008
Alta - September 2012
Alta - September 2013

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#396082 - 05/04/12 02:33 PM Re: farewell church ... family? [Re: MarkK]
JustScott Offline
Greeter Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 2582
Yeah it sucks. My wife decided she wanted to stay home with the kids rather than do all the work in the church office and I decided not to become a pastor in the UM church.....

Sucks to realize that people around you seem to only care when you're doing something FOR them and when you stop, they stop caring.

I'm sorry Mark. Christians are supposed to be about unconditional love and sadly it seems the church is the one that needs the most eduction on it.

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#396083 - 05/04/12 02:40 PM Re: farewell church ... family? [Re: MarkK]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2503
Loc: Denver, CO
the kicker was the pastor's comment "if you do this, the enemy wins".

that made me feel loved in ways I can't begin to explain
_________________________
the story
††† https://1in6.org/men/bristlecone/mark-krueger/

Kirkridge - October 2008
Alta - September 2012
Alta - September 2013

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#396086 - 05/04/12 03:58 PM Re: farewell church ... family? [Re: MarkK]
JustScott Offline
Greeter Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 2582
That right there is ignorance and manipulation.

I grew up with "spiritual" guilt trips as a daily standard of practice.

Your choices are your own and no one should heap a guilt trip on you for it.

I didn't get any guilt trips about my decision, but now I'm just ignored. My wife and I both.

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#396098 - 05/04/12 07:13 PM Re: farewell church ... family? [Re: MarkK]
mike13 Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/02/11
Posts: 419
Loc: California USA
Mark it is OK to give up on church, I have done it many times but try never to give up on God. Mike

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#396107 - 05/04/12 09:59 PM Re: farewell church ... family? [Re: MarkK]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2503
Loc: Denver, CO
not strong enough
_________________________
the story
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Kirkridge - October 2008
Alta - September 2012
Alta - September 2013

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#396110 - 05/04/12 10:33 PM Re: farewell church ... family? [Re: MarkK]
pufferfish Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6875
Loc: USA
I have come to see the church (not capitalized) as a collection of needy people, some of whom are Christians. Some of them haven't the slightest idea of God or righteousness. (Sheep among wolves). There are some who are pretty close to God. These are a minority.

Puffer

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#396113 - 05/04/12 11:12 PM Re: farewell church ... family? [Re: MarkK]
peroperic2009 Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/09/11
Posts: 3610
Loc: South-East Europe
Isolation mostly is not good thing, however in spiritual issues sometimes I've found it like blessing. Especially when dealing with some people and even more with institutional part of church...
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#396169 - 05/05/12 04:30 AM Re: farewell church ... family? [Re: MarkK]
mike13 Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/02/11
Posts: 419
Loc: California USA
Excellent point Igor

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#396194 - 05/05/12 10:56 AM Re: farewell church ... family? [Re: MarkK]
JustScott Offline
Greeter Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 2582
Very good point... and if we study the life of Christ, He spent time alone at times and he also was openly against the established "church" of His day because of their hypocrisy.

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#396202 - 05/05/12 12:14 PM Re: farewell church ... family? [Re: mike13]
Still Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6501
Loc: Terminus
Originally Posted By: mike13
Mark it is OK to give up on church, I have done it many times but try never to give up on God. Mike


I've was allowed to just slip-away into invisible oblivion with Church #1. Dang did they ever love Rob & Lorie when I had cars to gift to single, poor mothers. Lorie and I were the go-to people when something needed to be done for the needy ASAP.

10 years there, and we slipped-away after vigorous requests for marital help.

Church #2: Showed me the door (they showed me the door)!! They walked me to the door and said we don't deal with that stuff here.

People fail. People hurt you. People are inherently evil. That's why Jesus reaches his hand down to save us.

GOD WILL NEVER LEAVE ME! He's not going to leave anyone. He WILL hold those in churches filled with arrogance, apathy and self-centeredness.
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When the phone don't ring, I'll know its you.

The Aftermath Video

My Absolute Hero!

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#396210 - 05/05/12 02:14 PM Re: farewell church ... family? [Re: MarkK]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2503
Loc: Denver, CO
never leave anyone
so why am i so godlessly alone

i need a long vacation from the human race
_________________________
the story
††† https://1in6.org/men/bristlecone/mark-krueger/

Kirkridge - October 2008
Alta - September 2012
Alta - September 2013

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#396270 - 05/06/12 09:59 AM Re: farewell church ... family? [Re: MarkK]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2503
Loc: Denver, CO
it was odd not going to churvch this morning
spent some time playing piano which was nice
very mixed feelings
_________________________
the story
††† https://1in6.org/men/bristlecone/mark-krueger/

Kirkridge - October 2008
Alta - September 2012
Alta - September 2013

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#396423 - 05/07/12 02:29 PM Re: farewell church ... family? [Re: MarkK]
peroperic2009 Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/09/11
Posts: 3610
Loc: South-East Europe
Wow Mark, you playing piano sounds great to me wink!
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#396427 - 05/07/12 03:20 PM Re: farewell church ... family? [Re: MarkK]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2503
Loc: Denver, CO
Thank you Pero - you always have an upbeat response, which - to me anyhoo - is an amazing ability.
_________________________
the story
††† https://1in6.org/men/bristlecone/mark-krueger/

Kirkridge - October 2008
Alta - September 2012
Alta - September 2013

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#396431 - 05/07/12 04:09 PM Re: farewell church ... family? [Re: MarkK]
JustScott Offline
Greeter Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 2582
I went to church yesterday. It was lonely.

I still remember your playing at Kirkridge. Was still one of the highlights for me. I love music and wish I had talent there.

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#396432 - 05/07/12 04:16 PM Re: farewell church ... family? [Re: MarkK]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2503
Loc: Denver, CO
Being lonely in church is a very unique, cold, empty loneliness - one of the worst hurts I think ...

I'm glad you still remember my playnig at Kirkridge. The response from all of you still is a high point for me. Sometimes I go to my website and just sit and listen ... some of it still amazes me.
_________________________
the story
††† https://1in6.org/men/bristlecone/mark-krueger/

Kirkridge - October 2008
Alta - September 2012
Alta - September 2013

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#396438 - 05/07/12 05:03 PM Re: farewell church ... family? [Re: MarkK]
peroperic2009 Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/09/11
Posts: 3610
Loc: South-East Europe
Wow Mark I've just seen your web page and I have to greet all of you here like you have written there: Greetings in the name of the Lord, Jesus Christ!
Your web page is great!
This talk on loneliness and church has brought me some thoughts seeing every one of us as God's temple. Maybe as completely lonely is actually only way to feel His presence in real terms, something similar reflecting in me when reading name of your web page - Restorative Worship. I can't imagine that without including some peaceful isolation even that includes some painful feelings. Everything beside that could be just plain mirage.
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#396442 - 05/07/12 05:42 PM Re: farewell church ... family? [Re: MarkK]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2503
Loc: Denver, CO
i just have so much to do to it yet - never seem to find the time. songs to finish is a biggie - and getting lead sheets posted.
should start on a second book too someday. not to mention a blog - really need to start blogging. but that sounds too much like journalling ...

anyhoo - thank you for the kind words; that's why my web site is there. to touch and if possible, bring peace or comfort.
_________________________
the story
††† https://1in6.org/men/bristlecone/mark-krueger/

Kirkridge - October 2008
Alta - September 2012
Alta - September 2013

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