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#389536 - 03/16/12 09:52 PM Re: Did our CSA make us gay???? [Re: AL70]
Geeders Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/03/08
Posts: 1901
Loc: Peterborough, Ontario, Canada
There is no doubt that abuse affects our behaviour in later life. No doubt at all. Does it make anyone gay, or straight for that matter? Not likely, but it does screw up things real good. As time goes on, you may be able to learn that labels like gay and straight are indeed just labels. As as a cool guy I know here taught me, labels are for cans. It doesn't matter a pinch who you choose to love. All that matters is that the person consents and that they love you back. What it looks like, or is labeled as by others is their problem, not yours.

Jim

_________________________
My name is Jim
WoR Mysthaven 2008, Level 2 WoR Alta 2009, Kirkridge 2010, 2011, Oprah 200 men

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#389613 - 03/17/12 05:34 PM Re: Did our CSA make us gay???? [Re: lbcali1978]
Chase Eric Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/25/10
Posts: 1308
When my abuse began, I suspect I was bisexual with a strong interest in the opposite sex. The homosexual experiences I had at the whims of my abuser, however - as inappropriate as they were - charged through my nascent sexual circuitry. I was only a child; my sexual physiology was being stimulated and worked for the first time. The intensity of the experience far exceeded my ability to control or understand it. You might as well have put me in the driver's seat of a Porsche - I didn't know how to shift, and couldn't even reach the pedals. The car was driving me - I was just along for the ride.

I think it takes a leap of faith to suggest that such an intensely formative experience would not alter our sexuality even to a modest degree. I think the premise that one's sexual identity is immutable in the face of CSA is as fundamentally flawed as suggesting that being gay is a "choice." I suspect the former is spouted by those who never experienced CSA, while the latter is hypocrisy echoed by those who have never had to make such a choice.

Ward, I can't tell you enough how much your post here resonates with me, especially this:

Quote:
After the abuse I not only liked men sexually but wanted to be mistreated by men and felt (feel) the only way to have male friends and keep males happy with me and liking me; is to let them mistreat me and have sex with me.

It's an amazing paradox that the only power we knew was how to be good little "victims." I knew my abuser went "weak in the knees" for me, and that by acceding to his urges I could keep my baby sister safe as well as a lot of other little girls (click my name in my signature below if you need to know the dynamics on that).

In the final analysis, none of us has ANYTHING to apologize for. We are who we are. One of the greatest secrets I have learned is that when we truly accept ourselves, we find that others accept us as well. It really, really works.

Quote:
Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
...Dr. Seuss

I've wasted far to much time trying to be who I thought "others" wanted me to be. I bought into the lie that accepting my sexuality meant I somehow endorsed what happened to me as a boy. I celebrate who I am now - who I had to become. I had no choice - and neither did you. That is how we learned to acclimate and survive, despite our abusers.

_________________________



Click my pic to see why I'm here

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#389632 - 03/17/12 11:06 PM Re: Did our CSA make us gay???? [Re: Chase Eric]
Forexpreneur Offline


Registered: 02/08/12
Posts: 141
Loc: Uranus (hell no not yours. lol...
Originally Posted By: Chase Eric

In the final analysis, none of us has ANYTHING to apologize for. We are who we are. One of the greatest secrets I have learned is that when we truly accept ourselves, we find that others accept us as well. It really, really works.



Thank you so much for writing this Eric. I am finally working on self acceptence and love how my life is already changing. Thank you for sharing this. wink

Alex


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#389730 - 03/18/12 09:31 PM Re: Did our CSA make us gay???? [Re: Forexpreneur]
Chase Eric Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/25/10
Posts: 1308
Quote:
Thank you so much for writing this Eric. I am finally working on self acceptence and love how my life is already changing. Thank you for sharing this.

I am happy to hear that, Alex, and I hope you find it as true for you as I found it for me. It started with a challenge from my therapist. His assertion was that others tended to avoid getting to close to me ironically because of the strong "don't get too close to me" vibe I was giving off. The paradox was that my fears of rejection caused me to be defensive, which in turn ensured that others would react in kind. When you send off the vibe "don't get too close", people will subconsciously comply.

His challenge was that I live a week not hiding anything (although not necessarily volunteering anything). That's all it took. Ten years later, I am enjoying a lot of quality friendship and the deep anxiety I used to feel is largely a thing of the past. The friends I do have are true ones who know me well - both gay and straight.

We are so very good at hiding. For me, it was challenging to let that go because it meant survival at one point. But it offered me nothing, and ultimately was a burden worth shedding.

_________________________



Click my pic to see why I'm here

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#389822 - 03/19/12 05:11 PM Re: Did our CSA make us gay???? [Re: Chase Eric]
JohnJoseph Offline


Registered: 03/19/12
Posts: 3
Loc: Michigan
Eric, et al,

Thanks for this post/discussion. I have been dealing with my csa/ssa for so long.... so much of this discussion is freeing.

_________________________
Keeping faith!

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#389834 - 03/19/12 06:29 PM Re: Did our CSA make us gay???? [Re: JohnJoseph]
petercorbett Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/27/08
Posts: 2435
Loc: TEXAS
Hi, my fraternal brothers.

A never ending emotional/mental question. Lots of posts over the years about it.
I invite you all to go into the archives and you'll see exactly the same emotional/mental feelings and answers.

As far this boy is concerned he was born gay.
My emotional, mental, physical & sexual abuse from my "mom," had nothing to do with me being gay.

Neither did my life long lover. I fell genuinely in love with him, at 8 yrs old. I had made an emotional & mental bonding with him.It has lasted for 65 years. Ralph had nothing to do with my sexual orientation.

I never was attracted to girls as a boy. Wanted nothing to do with them. In fact I had a sister 3 years younger than I. I couldn't tell you a thing about her. There was no emotional or mental connection at all.

I always was attracted to other boys, especially with my 3 boyhood friends. I had formed an emotional, mental, physical bond with them. We were together for the first 14 years of my life.

Then came my time in that Catholic orphanage/Home. It would be there where I experienced my first crush for another boy. We both were between 10-14 years old. We were both "different" from the other 40-50 boys. We both were ungainly, shy, loners & gay. We loved each other completely. I have wondered over these years what ever happened to him.

All my emotional & mental bonding was with males, from my youth right up to this day.

As an 73 year old boy/man i will tell you in all my years i have never made an emotional, mental or sexual bonding with any female.

No. neither CSA or SSA had anything to do with me being gay.

I offer my compassion, understanding for those of my fraternal brothers trying to come to terms with this issue.

Wishing you all well in healing.

"I will take that lost boys hand, and I will lead him from the depths of darkness, into the sunshine, forever into eternity." As he is me.

Pete..Irishmoose.

_________________________
Working Boys' Home 10-14 yrs old, grades 5-8. 1949-1953
____________________________________________________________
A very humble alumni of the WOR Dahlonega, GA.
May 15-17 2009, Alta, Sep. 2009. Sequoia, 2010.
Hope Springs, 2010.


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#390418 - 03/23/12 06:41 PM Re: Did our CSA make us gay???? [Re: petercorbett]
Vadrian Offline


Registered: 09/10/11
Posts: 111
Loc: Pacific
No, I was targeted and scapegoated because I was gay, and didn't conform to gender stereotypes that are pushed onto boys in our society. My family was very homophobic and sexist-toward-males, so that spurred on my older brother to do this to me and ensured the neglect and condescension that I received in the aftermath.

I'm glad I'm gay, I don't want to be straight or 'macho,' and I don't think people that are are any more 'natural' or better than I am.

It really disturbs me how popular the ex-gay movement is at this website.



Edited by Vadrian (03/23/12 09:27 PM)

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#390440 - 03/23/12 08:56 PM Re: Did our CSA make us gay???? [Re: Vadrian]
Avery46 Offline


Registered: 09/23/10
Posts: 1243
Loc: USA
Did the abuse cause sexual orientation confusion? - Yes




Edited by Avery46 (03/23/12 09:27 PM)
Edit Reason: took out wording as I could not delete what I wrote entirely
_________________________
aka DJsport

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#390441 - 03/23/12 08:56 PM Re: Did our CSA make us gay???? [Re: westchesterguy]
1lifenow Offline


Registered: 03/07/11
Posts: 399
Loc: west coast
This is a thread that is more complicated than it appears cuz human sexuality is more complicated.

The key for you may be WHEN did you suffer CSA. You say you werent attracted to males b4 that, only females. Then after the desire to have sex with men. There is sort of a bell curve when most guys knew they were gay, some eary, most in the middle, arround the begining to end of puberty some later. So its hard to know if your sexuality was really firmly established. Hell many men on this site , WAY after puberty are still unsure or not convinced.

Dog genes have variable genes on only 3 sites making the vast array of sizes and shapes possible. Humans its multiple places and factors including epigenetics( changes in genes after birth) and psychological factors like imprinting and such. We know that imprinting is strong but not alone cuz it doesnt work when a really str8 environment produces a gay kid without having had CSA. Most of my gay friends now were not abused.

Then there is ultimately the question of DOES IT MATTER. We live today, so unless we can go back, there is really no point on wasting stomach space on this rumination.

I guess its an accademic exercise. I found an old text on human sexuality from the 1920's. Yes we gays are considered inferior but it says that no attempts to change the orientation have been successful. Many have a phase of experimentation in early years , just curiosity but for some, that persists. Lots of kids are curios but it does not "make them gay" just having experienced a gay of you show me urs. I still remember the little girl in the blue dress in grade 4 at recess. Nope , no imprinting there.

If you still not sure if its imprinting check out and watch, A clockwork orange. AH me drugies.

Trigger warning

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7fO3bzPeBQ

We are what we are. Now that i am finally here, it feels pretty damn good. Its like I can breath finally. Look in peoples eyes instead of the floor, leave the alcohol for social lubrication to others and just BE.

_________________________
The need for love lies at the very foundation of human existence. Dalai Lama

WoR Barrie 2011

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#390444 - 03/23/12 09:20 PM Re: Did our CSA make us gay???? [Re: lbcali1978]
1lifenow Offline


Registered: 03/07/11
Posts: 399
Loc: west coast
From Joe Kort, with my own twist.

In the book The Sexual Healing Journey: A Guide for Survivors of Sexual Abuse, author and educator Wendy Maltz equates sexual abuse with a violation of a position of trust, power and protection, “an act on a child who lacks emotional & intellectual maturation.” It promotes sexual secrecy among its victims, so that even their own sexual drives, libido, orientation and desires become secrets to themselves.

The fundamental principle here is that you are reenacting your sexual abuse–not expressing a homosexual or bisexual identity.
There is a difference between sexual orientation, preferences, fantasy, and behavior.

This is the key, your orientation is what it is whether you act on it or not. The American Psychological Association defines sexual orientation as “an enduring pattern of emotional, romantic, affectional and/or sexual attractions to specific gender(s).” Sexual orientation is a constant and doesn’t change. This can be confusing when someone comes out of the closet. It looks as though the person changes orientation when in fact they are coming out to whom they always really were. They stop role-playing the wrong orientation.

SEXUAL PREFERENCES
These are sexual acts, positions and fantasies that someone prefers to have when engaging in sexual activity. They can take it or leave it and they enjoy it when they do it. Preferences can change over time and one can become more open or closed to certain sexual fantasies, behaviors and acts.

SEXUAL BEHAVIOR
Sexual Behavior is any behavior intended to pleasure oneself and/or one’s sexual partner. But the sexual behavior you engage in won’t necessarily reflect your orientation.

SEXUAL FANTASIES
Sexual Fantasies are any thoughts and ideas that arouse you. They can be erotic and/or romantic. They can be loving and they can be violent. Often they are politically incorrect and are things you would never want to do in reality but in fantasy they are a turn on. They can be about virtually anyone and anything—not just body parts, but clothing and shoes, and even natural objects such as trees and mountains—especially if they remind you of a previous erotic encounter. Memories of music and of aromas (perfume) can have a similar aphrodisiac effect.

Survivors of sexual abuse wonder if their sexual orientation, fantasies and behaviors resulted from the abuse, especially when it results in eroticizing what happened to them from the abuse as in your case here.
Actually eroticizing one’s sexual abuse and reenacting it as an adult is common. In a sense it turns trauma into triumph and victim into victor. In the sexual fantasy, you are controlling what happens unlike the abuse, which controlled you! In the fantasy, everyone is turned on where in the abuse you were turned off.
In other words, it is like your sexual psyche is returning to the scene of the crime to solve it and never actually does.

Its what i thought i was experiencing, just a phase or something that would change if i could just "get it". I was in a great marriage with a wonderful wife and kids. I remember buying books and videos on how to satisfy my wife. I never thot about me. I didnt matter.

I now realize I never could have changed. It was not me. I had never allowed myself to be OK with being me. No one ever tells us growing up that its going to be OK, Cuz it never was. That is part of what drives us to all to the crazy behavior that is then heaped on top of the CSA that only makes the guilt and shame worse. The first part of healing was understanding that, then the slow road to realization does not seem so scary.

Cheers

grant


Edited by 1lifenow (03/27/12 09:48 AM)
Edit Reason: tidiness
_________________________
The need for love lies at the very foundation of human existence. Dalai Lama

WoR Barrie 2011

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