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#395777 - 05/02/12 01:03 AM Re: Homophobia Is Close to Home [Re: 1lifenow]
Chase Eric Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/25/10
Posts: 1283
Wow - quite a lively discussion on a topic with a doubtful resolution.

I think it is worth considering that the words we read here are stripped of inflection and prosity - simply the way something is said or the stress on a particular word or syllable is enough to change the meaning (for example - the discussion earlier in the thread on the perception of attacking vs. responding). That said, I reread your posts, Ed, without passion and think I know where you are coming from. I don't see it as anti-gay, or even a straight-is-better-than-gay thing, but do correct me if I am wrong on that. I think you are saying that our fundamental orientation is sometimes different than the one we ourselves believe (eg. SSA issues). I would also guess that knife cuts both ways - someone who perceives themselves to be straight may actually be gay, and it would be equally appropriate to explore and embrace that if in fact that were the true orientation.

I would agree that sexual orientation is a multi-faceted beast. The experts can't even agree on the social and biologic ingredients that comprise the formula of gay or straight or bisexual. So I have little faith we will arrive at anything here beyond just creating heat from the friction of our arguments. Ultimately I think we all fill in the missing pieces with our true-to-gut experiences of what we know to be true for us - and that truth can be very different for everyone here. It can be dangerous to make blanket statements from those deeper truths, for they may not be true for others.

It's too bad there are so many hang-ups about sexuality. Where there are hangups, there is hypocrisy and subterfuge and even abuse. I know far too many men who are gay yet pretend to lead a straight life, and some who are so deeply in denial that they don't even know themselves what their true orientation is. Some are in such denial that they lash out against others who are not, and I have found some of the most vicious anti-gay rhetoric comes from those who are so desperate to define themselves as straight that their remonstration is an essential component to the scaffold of the orientation they prefer others to perceive them as.
_________________________



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#395800 - 05/02/12 08:34 AM Re: Homophobia Is Close to Home [Re: Chase Eric]
EdfromNYC Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/18/10
Posts: 233
Loc: New York City
Eric

I don't think straight is better and I'm not anti-gay. I think that there is currently a one-sidedness on this issue and I counter that when I see it.

I don't think any group gets to claim that they know the basis of orientation (i.e., right-wing Christians) and that treatment only goes in the direction of either acceptance or self-hate if there is no acceptance. Its not black and white.

There are a lot of hang-ups, in ALL communities because we are all people with the same fears and issues just being exhibited in different manifestations.

I avoid making blanket statements or "rules" about sexuality. I simply carve out room for alternatives to either complete acceptance of homosexuality or the alternate idea that if not acceptance, that equals self-hate.

That's the only reason I get involved in this - to counter one-sidedness mixed with the latest inconclusive science and a heaping side of agenda. I like to remind whoever wants to read that there are other ways of seeing this issue. That's it.

There is something else here. To voice my side of this issue, it is AUTOMATICALLY perceived as an attack ON THAT PERSON that happens over and over and over. It is simply not the case but I see a pattern of projection onto my words of some inner sense of rejection that these men feel and that they have an extremely difficult time of not taking things personally.

You said you read without passion. I have learned on here to generally do that with all posts. In my opinion, its an internet skill developed over time to not demonize the other and to not insinuate or call names and if I feel that urge, step away and do not hit "post".

Always glad to see you adding to the mix.

Ed
_________________________
And more, much more, the heart may feel,
Than the pen may write or the lip reveal.
Winthrop Mackworth Praed

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#395804 - 05/02/12 08:41 AM Re: Homophobia Is Close to Home [Re: 1lifenow]
peroperic2009 Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/09/11
Posts: 3600
Loc: South-East Europe
Hey Ed,
you have great point here: "In my opinion, its an internet skill developed over time to not demonize the other and to not insinuate or call names and if I feel that urge, step away and do not hit "post"."
I hope that we all would find way to master that skill...

Pero
_________________________
My story

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#395819 - 05/02/12 11:37 AM Re: Homophobia Is Close to Home [Re: 1lifenow]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denver, CO
I remember hearing a story once about an older gentleman who got a letter from a nephew requesting money. The older gent couldn't read so he had a neighbor read it to him. The neighbor happened to be someone in a bitter divorce and family scandal. After the letter was read, the older guy said "That little snot - I'll never send him any money!" Couple weeks later he ran across the letter again and had a different neighbor read it - this time it was someone who had just had great news, had a good life, was feeling great. After the letter the old guy said "Hmm - must have had a change of heart, I'll send the money now".

My point (and opinion, of course) - when we read anything, it is flavored/colored/tainted/scented by our present mood or state of mind. At least I know that's true for me. So what I try to practice (emphasis on TRY) is if a post strikes me as an attack - I try to leave it alone for a couple days, read it again, read other's reactions if there are any - and see how I feel. 99% of the time I don't see it so much as an attack, rude, or cruel. Besides, regardless of how a post was intended - how I react is still up to me.... I think...

Now as stated earlier - if I could just master the skill...
_________________________
the story
    https://1in6.org/men/bristlecone/mark-krueger/

Kirkridge - October 2008
Alta - September 2012
Alta - September 2013

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#398700 - 05/29/12 02:50 PM Re: Homophobia Is Close to Home [Re: 1lifenow]
bodyguard8367 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/16/12
Posts: 1159
Loc: ""
""


Edited by bodyguard8367 (02/26/14 06:03 PM)
Edit Reason: SILENCED

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#400112 - 06/11/12 11:51 AM Re: Homophobia Is Close to Home [Re: 1lifenow]
1lifenow Offline


Registered: 03/07/11
Posts: 393
Loc: west coast
Southern baptist pastor comes out and defends the pres on his support of gay equality and upholds the constitution. Saw this today:

These truths are self evident:

ALL men are created equal No greater words may have ever been written in the history of humanity.
The pastor further goes on to ask why so much lighting of ones own hair on fire, it will change nothing, it does not affect you, why does it bother you SO MUCH1
If you listen he implies exactly the point i was trying to make with this thread. YOU may have some issues yourself.

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2012/06/11/vid...ge-endorsement/

There have been a few politicians not supporting LGBT equality cuz it would " shines a light" on them, and that was the last thing they wanted. A couple have come out. Often when not seeking re-election.

It is really great to see this whole is concept is now being supported by so many quarters.

Again its not to say al homophobia means your secretly gay, it doesnt. Sometimes as the pastor says its based on fear of the unknown. Just that so much disproportionate fuss raises so many questions. So when you hear this stuff, like Mr. Bachman, and so many more of that ilk. Perhaps we can now see that its really time for them to Look inward not out.
_________________________
The need for love lies at the very foundation of human existence. Dalai Lama

WoR Barrie 2011

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#420312 - 12/28/12 02:15 PM Re: Homophobia Is Close to Home [Re: 1lifenow]
SmartShadow Offline


Registered: 11/27/12
Posts: 134
Loc: Washington State
I have walked in my shoes quite some time now.

Much pain and much healing. I know nothing like this can ever be seen from only one vantage. Often when we find a path that holds answers, hope and validation we feal like we have found truth. And for us we have. If we wake up tomorrow and long for a new direction or purpose then we should be free to explore a new direction for ourselves. We, I think should also be free to say no to a dream if we are conflicted. Some choises are not that simple and alter our path forever. Fear and wisdom are good enught reason to give your self time to think, feal, grow and heal. As I have healed and matured I have become more free to decide what is right for myself. We, I think can agree that we are sexual creatures and that our sexual nature is a deeply woven part of who we uniquely are. My sexual idenity is part of me. I don't wanted to be labeled as gay, bi, straight, trans, right, wrong. I don't want some study to be used to label or define me. I am not polarized in this argument. If some ones inner being is truly trapped in there body and they can find some relief and healing in altering there body then who am I to say that's wrong? If some one wants to try a therapy to move them away from SSA, and repair something that they feal is in true conflict with who they are then I hope they find relief and healing as well. I think part of the fule that drives this debate is deep pain and yes a bunch of fear. That's ok with me as well. My conflict has not given me any real answers but it has help me to see others in a more accepting light and has helped me to look inward towards my own pain and needs. I think I have come to believe that being known and loved for who I am is very importanted. And not being sorted in to a category or being told this path is valid for you but that one is not. Or you need to accept this label and reality. Or this is not who you realy are it is just a distortion. I wish freedom for us all, even the freedom to disagree.

Freedom to be me,

Be free,

Heal,

Love,

Smart Shadow

Lets debate what love is sometime smile

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#420318 - 12/28/12 04:43 PM Re: Homophobia Is Close to Home [Re: 1lifenow]
SmartShadow Offline


Registered: 11/27/12
Posts: 134
Loc: Washington State
I realy wished I had not posted to this and brought it back to the top of the list.
Sorry I did not look at the date.

Sorry for any pain.

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