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#39501 - 06/11/03 08:23 PM Young bucks - old farts
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Sometimes I get the feeling that although we were all abused as kids and teenagers and a lot of what we go through is the same, occasionally it seems as though the younger guys and the older guys react, recover and deal with things differently.

Maybe not, but I just 'feel' that way.

I sometimes think that the younger guys have a lot more outside pressure, dating, building relationships, possibly children still at home, careers, new homes and all the rest of it. That's a lot of stress, even if someone only has one or two of those things going on. Pile on the SA and that's got to be overload !

Me ? I've gone past those things and in a very settled situation, as are a lot of guys by my age (nearly 50 ) ok, I have other stressors, but age and experience has taught me some of the coping mechanisms for 'normal everyday stress' ( just don't ask me to define that ! )

The young guys have youth, vitality and the questioning attitude that comes with it, and that's bound to make recovery easier. Young people are usually more accepting of new ideas, more willing to try something different.

We've had a long time to reinforce our disfunctional behaviours, are they any harder to overcome with time ? I don't know.
I do know that I have to make some effort to accept new ideas, I think I'm more cautious and wary.

There's a shed-load of generalisations there I know, but you get my drift I'm sure.

I guess I'm thinking about the old cliche, "If I knew then what I know now"

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#39502 - 06/11/03 09:46 PM Re: Young bucks - old farts
Mike Church Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 01/23/03
Posts: 3439
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Excellent post Lloyd:


As you know I am 62 and I have been in chat with the younger guys and we have talked and I have on occasion exchanged pm with some of them.

I think there are significant differences. As you say we spent more time with self destructive behaviours and it may be harder to re focus on reclaiming our dignity.

The young men here do seem to have a lot more pressure on them. They are a generation that are expected to move at the speed of lite and have their shxt together. See no pressure at all. When you and that evil mix called sexual assault, well all hell breaks loose.

I think they tend to see everyhing as black and white. As someone else here said you can build a thousand bridges and never be know as a master builder but give one bj and you are a cs for life. Black and white. No forgiveness of self. Hey that is really tuff.

We having lived a little longer tend to see a wide variety of shades of grey between the two extremes and maybe it gives us a better handle on forgiving ourselves. They are generally at their prime and advertising is aimed directly at them. They must feel really centered out especially because of the SA. The are expected to be competitive in everything. Hell it is hard enough for someone without the agony of sa to fill that role.

All you young wolves please correct me if I am totally out to lunch.

I think that it is our duty to our young brothers to help them see life in shades and not absolutes. And they give us the best opportunity to be young through their eyes. See that is why we are like a Pack of Wolves. Each can benefit from another.

The main thing that I admire about them is that they did not bury the goddamned abuse away and waste a very large part of their future by doing it.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWHHHHHHHHHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

_________________________
Mikey

IT REALLY IS OK TO STUMBLE. NONE OF US ARE PERFECT.

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#39503 - 06/12/03 12:48 AM Re: Young bucks - old farts
Sleepy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 288
Loc: Arizona, USA
Dave,
Thanks for starting this thread! Sometimes I feel a little alone here because I am at a very different stage in my life. Don't get me wrong, I don't feel lonely just a little unable to completely connect with much of what transpires here. You guys talk all the time about your wives/partners, careers, etc. Well, I don't really have any of those. I'm just trying to sort everything out. Sometimes just understanding these issues (even if you're not a SA survivor) is incredibly difficult. And with a warped sexuality thrown in I can easily overload myself.

Mike,

Quote:
I think they tend to see everyhing as black and white.
This is a very real issue for me. Sometime ago Don-NY started a very excellent thread on this issue:

ZERO / ONE

I found this to be a very poignant issue. As a young person we are always bombarded with messages that tell us how to be. I remember my highschool guidance councelor telling us that if we didn't go to college we would only make such and such. And if we saved so much a month we would have a million bucks by the time we're 50. And so on. The pressure to succeed was really placed on us. However, now I conciously realize that there are so many other things in life than the material goods. Unfortunatly my emotions tend to not heed my logic and I get myself into trouble.

So basically it is tought to balance a seemingly successful public persona and an emotionally stabile and healthy personal life. I think the latter here is much more important. And fortunatly I've had a year to really get my ducks in a huddle. Without being able to devote the time to myself I don't know what kind of state I would be in. Anyway, I'll end it here.
Mike

_________________________
"It is good to have an end to journey toward; but it is the journey that matters, in the end."
--Ursula K. Le Guin

"Mental health is a commitment to reality at all times."
--M. Scott Peck

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#39504 - 06/12/03 03:39 AM Re: Young bucks - old farts
mattandrew Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/26/01
Posts: 376
Loc: Florida
Hi all,

Just thought i would add two cents worth to this post.The way i was taught or not taught was that i would be a failure in life and that i would not amount to much when i became the age of majority.To this day i can say i am married and just purchased my first home last month and it should be built from the ground up by December weather permitting in ratland.I am working on a few young pups and i take care of my 3 year old nephew almost every weekend due to the father being a deadbeat and the mother who is my stepsister, working all the time on the weekends so, i take him and i try to teach him things the correct way so i know that he will grow into a man without having to go thru the same things i did as a child as no child should have to go thru what i did and i will not allow myself to be in the "Percentile of Abusee's who turn into an Abuser according to therapists who i have seen in the past" ,I am a survivor and i am moving on past the old chit of the abuse ruling everything i do daily in my life.

As they say "You can't teach an old dog new tricks" but, the younger ones here have a chance to make something of themselves and be able to make something out of what they have been thru and hopefully be able to break the cycle of abuse in their lives and be able to have children who grow into majority without ever having to know what their parent or parents went thru as a child.Daily stress can be a kicker but,there are ways to cope with stress and ways to learn how to channel them so that the stress does not overtake ones self esteem or their daily tasks as they go about their day,yes,i know easier said then done,correct but,with proper therapy and proper problem solving skills, i believe one can make it despite the past,no one ever said it would be peaches and cream but,as the old slogan also says "You can turn lemons into lemonade" this is what my objective is in life to turn the bad into positive experiences and be able to learn from them and teach other young whipper snappers the ropes along lifes curvy and bumpy road. \:D

Matt \:D

_________________________
M.A.N. ,
Boy who was trapped in society's nightmare & moving on thru healing & accountability.

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#39505 - 06/12/03 10:48 AM Re: Young bucks - old farts
Wuamei Offline
Member

Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 2700
Loc: The left turn I should have ta...
A thread started a day or two ago relates to this:

http://www.malesurvivor.org/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=002085

My comments in my post there I think fit this thread & the matters it raises just about as well.

Quote:
I remember my highschool guidance councelor
telling us that if we didn't go to college we would only make such and such. And if we saved so much a month we would have a million bucks by the time we're 50. And so on. The pressure to succeed was really placed on us.
Man, their tired tune hasn't changed a bit, and neither have their empty lyrics! Hard to believe teachers colleges haven't taught them something a bit more original over the years!

Mike they tried to hand me that same pile of crap when I was in high school (and yes that was a long time ago!)! If Id'a had a long enuf stick, I'da picked it up & dumped it on their heads!
For the record my friend it seems to me as tho you are handling things quite well!

Quote:
i take care of my 3 year old nephew almost
every weekend due to the father being a deadbeat and the mother who is my stepsister, working all the time on the weekends so, i take him and i try to teach him things the correct way so i know that
he will grow into a man without having to go thru the same things i did as a child as no child should have to go thru what i did and i will not allow myself to be in the "Percentile of Abusee's who turn into an Abuser according to therapists who i have seen in the past" ,I am a survivor and i am moving on past the old chit of the abuse ruling everything i do daily in my life.
Matt this is so powerful! You are breaking that sick cycle of SA right in your own family and in so doing you are being not only a survivor but a thriver! Damn this is so good to hear! You brother
have come a long way. As for your nephew, IMNSHO that young man has an excellent male role model to follow & learn from. This will serve him well for the rest of his life. That serves you & all of us well as male survivors, and makes the world a better and less abusive place.

My brother from "ratland" you ain't just Mickey Mousing around!

My Sunshine State friend, shine on!

WTG Matt & TY!

_________________________
"I can't stand pain. It hurts me."
--Daffy Duck

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#39506 - 06/12/03 06:00 PM Re: Young bucks - old farts
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Matt
you sure seem to be getting some of that "proper therapy and proper problem solving skills" you mention, you'll have to share the secret with us sometime.

Mike,
I think the 'shades of grey' versus 'black and white' is pretty true, whenever I've argued with a teenager it seems that way.

It's a bit like my mate Frank ( he's 61 and such a good driver ) says about the young drivers who go flat out and invariably break something when we're competing. "Us old un's know how the gas pedal actually works"

I think that as we get older we're more prepared to ease off when we need to, and maybe we have a lifestyle that might allow that as well.
Young people are under pressure, so when they get a break in the 'normal' pressures of life I think that they might feel duty bound to move right along to the next thing, which might be their recovery- and they'll deal with that untill its time for the next thing to come along.

Me ? I was at a stage where I had time to chill out occasionally, and like I said in your post - my off roading takes me away from everything for the whole day. I can remember times when I felt like shit on the Saturday, all kinds of problems. But Sunday, the SA never entered my head. Monday, the shit was back.

It's good to chill,

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#39507 - 06/12/03 07:05 PM Re: Young bucks - old farts
ecb Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/04/03
Posts: 205
Ditto to what Sleepy Mike said,

At this point I'm trying to build a life for myself. Find a job that may lead into a career, get a place of my own, ect... Plus, in my particular case, I'm the only person in my family to go to college and get a degree. I feel like I should be on my way to SOME kind of career path! Add to that all the crap with my SA, and it becomes very overwhelming very often.

Not to say that it's worse for us younger guys, just different. We don't have to worry about if the roof gets a leak or paying property taxes for example.

It's not worse, just different I guess. Both groups take different things for granted I suppose.

-Eric


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#39508 - 06/15/03 11:31 PM Re: Young bucks - old farts
Sans Logos Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/03
Posts: 5791
Loc: in my own world in pittsburgh,...
Hi Guys,

Good topic--I guess I qualify as one of the old farts at 50, but I've never been better. Wasn't always like this though.

While this in no way intends to diminish the pain or trauma of the effects of SA for younger guys, I am glad that you all have this "somewhere" to go. We had nothing. Now I don't want to pull a "Rick Santorum" here, but heck it wasn't until 1973 being "homothexthual" was declared no longer a mental disease, which is simply stated to illustrate the hopelessness of the situation at the time. This was really the dawning of a new day, and opened the doors for public discussion of these issues and their contributing elements. Most of us were well into the advanced stages of the illness perpetrated by our experiences. Any attempt to deal with the issues back then was most often met with silence, and as well today, violence.

I feel good for all of us that we are able to be here, but I especially feel happy for the younger guys who find this place early enough and begin to recover before the disease progresses mournfully into despair. Much gratitude in my heart goes out the vanguard spirit, who enforces the laws of justice in this universe as we are being vindicated through the efforts of those who invest their power in stoking the fires that make this forum effective.

Peace to all, younger and older alike,

Ron

_________________________
  1. the past
  2. ReClaiming Now
  3. advocacy


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#39509 - 06/16/03 12:55 AM Re: Young bucks - old farts
MrDon Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/08/01
Posts: 957
Loc: Deltona, FL
Good topic, but just out of having fun, I have to go and find a cane and offer it to you guys....

hheheheheheeeeeeee \:D

Seriously, I'm one of the young ones (my birth certificate says I'm going on 39. But I actually feel like I in my late teens. So you can call me young and you can call me old, but if you call me the wrong one on the wrong day, you had better be able to run!

Sorry, just having to much fun with all you old folks..... I love ya all!!

Don

_________________________
In order to journey to new worlds, we must first be willing to lose site of the shore.

The Mind Body Thoughts Blog
http://mindbodythoughts.blogspot.com/

Check out my relaxing piano music from the heart!
http://www.donshetterly.com

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