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#39374 - 01/18/06 02:38 AM and just when things were going so well...
Peter 1950 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/29/05
Posts: 51
Loc: Atlanta
For the last week, I've felt better than in a long time. Even went without beer many of those days. I need to be numb whenever this stuff gets to me. For decades that's apparently been nearly every day. So cutting back to one or none from 3-5 is kind of a big deal.

Yesterday was therapy day (about our 4th) with my wife and my first impulse was to cancel. I wasn't comfortable and didn't want to go. But we went. A big issue for us is my attraction to some other men. I think it comes from the SA somehow; my wife's not so sure and does resent the fact that I didn't tell her until last year (about 30 years too late). We usually get around to that topic every time. Her take is I need to figure out "who I am" after which she'll decide whether she can cope with that. One very good thing that happened yesterday was that she said she thought we were going to be okay; that we'd stay together. I was elated.

Later I talked about how the attraction had been around "forever" (meaning since the time of my SA) and while it would certainly ease my pain and simplify my life if it just went away one day, it was hard to imagine that. I commented that I've struggled with it for decades. Our T looked me right in the eye and said, "All you have to do is decide, then the struggle is over."

I paused. My impulse was to say, "Okay, that's it. I'm gay." And it was a very strong impulse. But I couldn't do it. Not just because my wife was sitting there. But because I just don't know. I've never even kissed a man. My SA with the minister was limited to mutual masterbation (a lot for a long time) and constant entreaties from him for oral sex. He kidded that I needed "artificial respiration" if I took awhile to get hard, but always offered it with a very clear understanding that it was a two way street. His "kidding" seemed to give me an out, which I always took. So though I know the attractions are strong, much stronger than for women, I've never tested it out.

I feel like I caught...with no solution. Part of me feels those attractions so intensely that I think I must be gay. Yet another part of me loves my wife, enjoys sex with her and craves the emotional attachment we have. Seems like there's no way to confirm that I'm gay without risking (probably destroying) my marriage, and I'm not willing to do that.

Then to keep things really interesting, my wife offered the opinion that "Dr. Freud" would say that my attraction to men comes from the fact (and it is a big-time fact) that I could never win the interest, attention or approval of my father. Never thought about that before. Maybe she's right. (Did she see that on Oprah?)

Anyway, my head is spinning...

After quite a number of beers, I fell asleep around 10:30, but by 2:00 I was awake,sitting alone at the top of the stairs more depressed than I'd been in months. Today, I've been on the verge of tears all day (probably trying to deal with the world on 3 hours sleep is partly to blame), but I'm better. I'm more in control, and I'm coping.

But, what a roller coaster! I'm seeing my shrink on Thursday and I hope he can help me make sense of this.

Meanwhile, I'm really struggling. When you read this, what do you see that I'm missing? Any thoughts, guys? I could really use some help.

Peter


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#39375 - 01/18/06 03:30 AM Re: and just when things were going so well...
endlessjourney Offline
Member

Registered: 11/01/05
Posts: 518
Loc: Cincinnati Ohio
Peter, good luck with your "confusion". I used that word because that is probably the main thing you feel now. I can relate to what you are saying immensely just by the way you described your feelings. Its scary. The hardest part is facing the actual truth whether you are attracted to men or women. Sexuality should be a lot more general when referring to someone's sexual orientation. My philosophy is that here is no one that is "gay", and there is no one that is "straight". Were all somewhere in between those two and regardless where we are on that spectrum, as long as we know that it is OK and that people will still love us, we will be OK regardless. It's so easy to just say I'm gay, label it and try to deal with it. At least you know whats going on with yourself or so you think. My T gave me a what would you do survey in regards to a similar situation to yours and I promised to myself that I would be honest no matter how scary it was. (somethings, you feel you just don't want to know). The urge to say that I am gay or straight was like taking a long test and BS'ing the last 5 answers just to get the damn thing over with. That's the easy way. Taking your time and letting revelations come to you as they will, I feel, is your best bet. And the fear, if you look at how far you've came through all of this, I'm sure the fear will subside and you'll see the truth.

Good luck! Yea, I need to cut down on the beers myself.

Jason

_________________________
Truth is the very reason we strive to live. It surrounds and resides within us. Accepting the truths we already know and seeking out those we do not is a direct path to inner balance and joy. For life is not a means to an end, but a journey. Life comes and goes but the truth will always live on.

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#39376 - 01/18/06 08:18 AM Re: and just when things were going so well...
Morning Star Offline
Member

Registered: 12/21/04
Posts: 1124
Loc: Home
I lost my power as a child when I had sex with a man first, so each time I feel out of power in real life, I act out, I go back to my old mechanisms of gaining back my lost power, I imagine sex with men.

Boy that is powerful, because it is all about power. Real sex is all about love not power, having had sex with men never made me feel loved or loving, I just felt I had got my power back.

I had 'made' this man love me, as I never could as a child, felt neglected as a child by my father, so was constantly looking for the father figure I never had, you wife is right there.

Since sex with men was all about power, it was such a hard habit to kick. But then once I decided it was acting out of abuse and not love I stopped.

Now each time such a thought comes to mind I just remind myself, it is abuse, not me. And each time I do that, my heart expands. As if I am coming back to myself.

Yes, it is a gradual process, and on has to work on it everyday for it works like deaddiction. Remember, it is all about your power to choose, between your past and your future.

Alcohol might feel good, but in your heart you know it is not really good for you. For each drink you have to say learn to say NO.

Same with sex with men.

_________________________
~ It's over!...Let go of Thy Past, Remember Thy Self ~

Why Don't People Heal, by Caroline Myss; 30 days to clean up your vibrations - Abraham-Hicks

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#39377 - 01/18/06 01:03 PM Re: and just when things were going so well...
delta.tetra Offline
Member

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 108
Loc: Netherlands
Peter I don't have any advice I just feel your struggle and your strength as you search for all your truth. You are doing OK! I think, because you are paying attention to your beers and working at your therapy and not destroying yourself and your relationships, you have got as far as you possibly could today, and tomorrow you will go further again towards healing. bless


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#39378 - 01/18/06 03:03 PM Re: and just when things were going so well...
seeker2 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/11/06
Posts: 4
Loc: Salt Lake City, Ut
I have been reading the posts on this site for several months now. I finally got the courage to register so I can interact with you guys. Peter, I am struggling with the same issue, am I gay, or am I straight? I am married to a wonderful parnter and feel so guilty when I act out with men.
I have to go to work, so the first post is short, yet it already ready feels right just seeing,(in print), the fact that I do not know who I am adds some clarity. seeker2


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#39379 - 01/18/06 03:04 PM Re: and just when things were going so well...
seeker2 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/11/06
Posts: 4
Loc: Salt Lake City, Ut
I have been reading the posts on this site for several months now. I finally got the courage to register so I can interact with you guys. Peter, I am struggling with the same issue, am I gay, or am I straight? I am married to a wonderful parnter and feel so guilty when I act out with men.
I have to go to work, so the first post is short, yet it already ready feels right just seeing,(in print), the fact that I do not know who I am adds some clarity. seeker2


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#39380 - 01/18/06 03:32 PM Re: and just when things were going so well...
george of kent Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/28/05
Posts: 305
Loc: delaware
ok, guys,
i think we're all more than a little too obsessed with labels here.
The human psyche is way too complex and too flexible for those neat little boxes we try to put them all into.
This 67 yo survivor considers himself "gay" (living in a stable same sex relationship for 26+ years) who was married and fathered three children. Despite being attracted to men, I'd probably still be (more or less) contentedly married to the mother of my kids if we had not had major clashes in parenting philosophies and some serious alcohol abuse problems (Navy careerist, officers' club happy hour, etc.,)
Peter, maybe I'm kidding myself here, but i think my point is that there is no one "right" answer for all CSA survivors. We're all different, we may each have slightly different needs.
The only thing in this arena that I think I know for sure is that, while I may have been abused because I was gay (????), I was queer long before I was abused.
Best of luck, Peter. And remember, deciding not to decide IS also a decision. Please stay in touch.
Love, etc.,

_________________________
"We are only two and yet our howling can encircle the world's end.
Frightened, you are my only friend.
And frightened we are, every one.
Someone must take a stand -- Coward, take my coward's hand"
Arthur Laurents

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#39381 - 01/18/06 06:42 PM Re: and just when things were going so well...
Morning Star Offline
Member

Registered: 12/21/04
Posts: 1124
Loc: Home
I dont think hanging in limbo regarding sexuality is the best of ideas, because if it was so Peter would not be seeking counselling, .

I believe question here is about deciding our sexual preference, amongst various possibilities. So each one of us have the right to decide where do we stand and why. Limbo or lasting confusion is not the solution for lasting peace. Sooner or later, you have to take a call.

_________________________
~ It's over!...Let go of Thy Past, Remember Thy Self ~

Why Don't People Heal, by Caroline Myss; 30 days to clean up your vibrations - Abraham-Hicks

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#39382 - 01/18/06 11:17 PM Re: and just when things were going so well...
george of kent Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/28/05
Posts: 305
Loc: delaware
Lasting confusion is not the solution for anything, to be sure. For a few of us, however, being in limbo as to sexual "preference" is not only possible but is also desirable. I guess I'm thinking mostly of the few (really few) gay men that I know personally who do remain married to women out of choice, convenience or comfortable habit -- or "for the sake of the children."
I don't know (or want to know) details of their sex lives, but these men (mostly 55+) seem to be quite content (and so do their wives as far as I can tell) to remain in between the gay and straight worlds.
This kind of arrangement would not have worked for me, nor for most of the gay guys I know; but for a few this is what they say works best for them.
True, each one of us has the right to decide for oneself.
Peter, hope this thread has been helpful to you and not too far off topic.
Love, etc.,

_________________________
"We are only two and yet our howling can encircle the world's end.
Frightened, you are my only friend.
And frightened we are, every one.
Someone must take a stand -- Coward, take my coward's hand"
Arthur Laurents

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#39383 - 01/19/06 02:07 AM Re: and just when things were going so well...
Peter 1950 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/29/05
Posts: 51
Loc: Atlanta
Guys, every one of you,

Thanks to all of you for your support. These past couple of days have been awfully dark. Maybe I'm getting very close to what will be some pretty painful decisions. The idea of ending the struggle is pretty appealing, but the idea of ending my marriage is terrifying. I already fear that I've made my life worse, not better, by disclosing my attractions to my wife.

She's said many times that she is saddened by the SA and wishes it never happened, but she can accept that news in a way that she cannot accept my attractions. Now some things have changed that make it worse. We have sex less, making me hornier and more tempted. Some aspects of our sex life have disappeared altogether since my disclosure. I can't even bring myself to talk with her about it, but it just seems to escalate and get worse and worse.

We've been married for 33 years. In many respects our marriage has been very good. We have two grown married daughters, and two grandchildren. I'm afraid to lose all that.

Then, on the other hand, I read a review of Brokeback Mountain. In one scene, one of the wives is described as witnessing a kiss between the guys and seeing passion in her husband that she'd never seen before. And I wonder am I missing out on the life I was supposed to lead.

So confusing, such a mess and so depressing. I see my T tomorrow, and I hope he can help.

You guys are great. Thanks for all your support your wisdom and your love.

Peter


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#39384 - 01/19/06 01:33 PM Re: and just when things were going so well...
Peter 1950 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/29/05
Posts: 51
Loc: Atlanta
Guys,

It's a new day, and after a (somewhat) better nights sleep, things look a little brighter and more clear.

I believe that I was "hardwired" to be gay (or somewhere near that end of the spectrum). Maybe that made me more of a target for my perp. Anyway, I hated the SA and never wanted any part of it. I think I formed some very negative feelings about sex with men as a result. But that left me really confused, because I've always been attracted to other guys. My "solution" came from meeting the woman who has been my wife for 33 years, someone who showed me love and opened the door to a life I never thought I'd have.

I'm at a point where I think I should accept that and move on. The place where I'm at right now is just too damned painful. I know I'm attracted to men. I've never acted on that attraction. I'm lucky to have the wife and family that I have, and I should be thankful for that. I just need to accept that I've been leading a life, and that I will continue to lead a life, that's different than that for which I've been "hardwired".

I think I can do that, and I think it will be a lot less painful than this. I'm going to kick that around with my T today.

Jason, your words are a comfort. And I think you're right about orientation being a spectrum. I have lots of fears about whether I'll still be loved by the people who matter to me once they learn who I am.

Morning Star, maybe all my fantasizing about men is my way of acting out. I just don't know. And, I don't really understand that aspect of our common set of issues. Can you clarify, and help me?

Delta, some days it seems to hurt so bad that it's hard to see that I've come as far as I could for the day, as you put it. Wise advice. Thanks.

Seeker2, welcome. I'm sorry that you have a history that we all share and that you need the help that's available here, but I'm glad for you that you've found this site and this incredible collection of brothers. We share a tragic past, but we support one another in an incredibly powerful way as we work toward what we all hope will be a better future. Any time I can be of help, in any way, please let me know.

George, thanks for your wisdom. I think you're right that there are different answers for each of us, and the struggle is all about finding what's right. Tough work, huh?

Guys, you all have my deep appreciation. Your support means more to me than words can express.

Peter


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#39385 - 01/19/06 03:20 PM Re: and just when things were going so well...
george of kent Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/28/05
Posts: 305
Loc: delaware
Nice summarizing of this very powerful thread up to this point, Brother Peter.
One of my mantras that I use daily is "take it one day at a time" which is intended to remind me to curb my impatience and frustration and self critical mind fuck games. I am always my own worst critic. Thanks for reminding me that it's a real positive result when I realize "I've come as far as I could for the day"
Love, etc.,
p.s. Just keep in touch; we're all cheering for you.

_________________________
"We are only two and yet our howling can encircle the world's end.
Frightened, you are my only friend.
And frightened we are, every one.
Someone must take a stand -- Coward, take my coward's hand"
Arthur Laurents

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#39386 - 01/19/06 03:46 PM Re: and just when things were going so well...
Morning Star Offline
Member

Registered: 12/21/04
Posts: 1124
Loc: Home
Peter,

I think you Act-Out when you replay your abuse, as that becomes your mechanism for seeking love or power whatever that you seek.

When I was so conviced that I was gay, because my sexual attraction to gay men was all too powerful, my guide said, "Why dont you explore those feelings, instead of assuming or pointificating, or staying in limbo or the 'What-if' zone.

So I went ahead and had sex with a man who 'loved' me, and it was awful, I hated it, it brought back memories of my childhood molestation and felt demeaning. That shocked me as for 20 years I was pining for it!

Seems I just liked the idea of a man loving me, but when it happened for real, I realized it wasn't what I was looking for.

My sexual fantasies about men, were just an extension of my abuse replay or a living nightmare, a nightmare that I lived thru everyday.

I literally had to push myself to snap out of this dream. As it felt so real.

Eventually this saved my life, as well as my dignity, helped me reclaim my sex life, my authentic sex life to be precise.

And yes I feel I am beginning to respect myself more.

_________________________
~ It's over!...Let go of Thy Past, Remember Thy Self ~

Why Don't People Heal, by Caroline Myss; 30 days to clean up your vibrations - Abraham-Hicks

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#39387 - 01/19/06 07:10 PM Re: and just when things were going so well...
Dewey Offline
Member

Registered: 11/13/02
Posts: 137
Loc: the sunshine state
For me I think my feelings of same-sex attractedness come from a sense of lack of my own true masculinity. It's more of a feeling of just wanting to be held, comforted, told everything's going to be fine, I'm strong, I'm going to make it , I have what it takes... ect. Or you know what...? Telling another male the same things that I feel I need to hear would somehow produce the desired results in me too. Really, just wanting to be genuinely loved. Somehow it gets eroticzied [sp?]. It's like, and maybe I'm oversimplifying here,that a man needs a burger [sex] and a woman needs a seven course meal,all those things mentioned above, and because true male-female intimacy was never modeled for me, I don't see myself as that great a cook. Just kinda rambling here D.

_________________________
I refuse to use my past as an excuse to not have a future.
My hero Dad; Trigger warning- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oi3Hyxuf5AE

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#39388 - 01/19/06 08:32 PM Re: and just when things were going so well...
Morning Star Offline
Member

Registered: 12/21/04
Posts: 1124
Loc: Home
Wow, Dewey you have nailed it quite well, sexual prefernces are rooted in our sense of sexuality, our masculinity or feminity. What we lack within or what we think we lack, we seek on the outside. That is unless we learn to deny what we are out of fear. Or when someone denies that in ourselves, as it happens during sexual abuse.

Since as a child responding like a man got me into trouble, I concluded that it is safe only to be like a woman. While sex with men was my only way to express my love, it also became my only outlet of my sexuality, and sex with women was unimaginable.

When abused by a man, our own sexuality got denied and repressed, and we learnt we behave the same way ourselves, thinking that is the right way, becuase that made us feel love.
Soon you start feeling like what you are not. But inside you know it is not all true. This repression of sexuality gives rise to insidious self hate and anger.

Part of my recovery has been to connect with my own masculinity, and realising that it is safe to be myself and respond like a man. I have learnt to focus on that, the rest of the issues of attraction have automatically healed. Because I have found it within.
My recovery was delayed when I tried to repress and deny my attraction for masculinity, once I allowed it to be expressed, I realised it wasn't the true thing and I was just acting out. So even stopping acting out was also repressive just because I didn't want to called gay, that kept me stuck in my attraction for masculinity.
Little did I know then, that it was only, body's auto recovery mechanism of sexual balance. So when I allowed the natural flow of sexual energies to happen without blocking it out of fear of society I allow it get balanced gradually. I realised this wasn't I was looking for!

It is like focusing on the darkness too much never makes it go away, infact only increases it many folds, it was when I started focussing on the light the darkness dissolves in it. I became what I was within. It was my true 'coming out'!


And you right that ultimately we are all looking for love. Yes I too just wanted to be held and comforted by a man, once that happened I didnt want to go ahead, once I felt loved enough.
Sadly, I didnt do that for myself as a child, I got scared, I tuned out, I ran away from myself,that is why I felt unloved. Because I stopped bothering about myself, I hated myself quietly for not doing any thing for me, for not coming for my rescue.I didnt like it, but I still did it because there was no other way I knew to get love, I kept quiet during abuse, that is why a part of me that knew the truth started hating myself, it was only I began to forgive myself that I learned to love myself again, and part of my healing has been learning to tune in to myself, listen to what I am feeling, for they always tell the truth, not what my mind says.Imagine, all my life I was looking for attention, today I know I looking for my own attention, my own love and my own respect. I had to change first for the world to change around me. I am the creator of my destiny, my reality dictates my outer truth.

But now I am learning to do all that for myself, to comfort myself when I am hurt, to defend myself when I am attacked or hurt, to stand up for what I want and need, to demand love and whatever I need, in short to love myself just the way I wanted all those men to do. To be the man that I was looking for, the man I always was.

_________________________
~ It's over!...Let go of Thy Past, Remember Thy Self ~

Why Don't People Heal, by Caroline Myss; 30 days to clean up your vibrations - Abraham-Hicks

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#39389 - 01/20/06 07:20 AM Re: and just when things were going so well...
Morning Star Offline
Member

Registered: 12/21/04
Posts: 1124
Loc: Home
Our growing up years are crucial in forming our sense of self, as much our sexual self. When we get signals from our peer regarding our male sexual behaviour, but sometimes when we donít have good role in our home, or when there is an abuse from our role models as in the case of abuse, we tend to believe in the image that has been given to us. As children we rely too much on external approvals of our sense self or for our sexual identity, our sexuality is formed by what we learn or see reflected in our peers, so when we get confused or unhealthy signals as during childhood abuse, we get confused. This dependency makes us vulnerable to abuse of influences and power of control.
Part of getting back our sexual identity is getting our sense of self back; that is when we stop relying on others and external symptoms for our sexual self.
Then it does matter how masculine or feminine we are or what the world thinks about our sexuality, we are what we are. Until we remain true to our selves, the rest doesnít matter. Proving our sexuality to the world can be an exhaustive exercise if we not convinced our selves or sure, but once we know the truth we are free.

That is when we realize that it doesnít matter which category we fall into, unless we learn to respect what we are and rejoice in it, no one else can make us happy, but if we are not happy with what we are, we will try hard to make others happy and expect them to make us happy. It is a futile race and often leads to disasters.

We are what we are at this moment, because we are meant to explore the world and our self thru that tiny window into our self, that viewpoint will make us aware of that part of our reality. And once we have done that we are ready to move on and we do.

A boy gets his reference of male sexuality thru his father, or later in life thru peers. But when that is missing or when something goes during growing up, as in abuse you tend to take wrong or mixed signals regarding your sexual identity, just as your self worth.

The only way to get back to our sexual identity or sexuality is to not depend on others to give you proofs of our sexuality.

_________________________
~ It's over!...Let go of Thy Past, Remember Thy Self ~

Why Don't People Heal, by Caroline Myss; 30 days to clean up your vibrations - Abraham-Hicks

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#39390 - 01/20/06 01:04 PM Re: and just when things were going so well...
Peter 1950 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/29/05
Posts: 51
Loc: Atlanta
George, Morning Star, Dewey,

Thanks to you all. You've given me lots to think about. Doing better today than this time yesterday. Saw my T and felt more centered afterwards. Had a pretty good discussion with my wife before dinner (the first meal I could eat yesterday), but she said something pretty disturbing. She wants me to take anything having to do with same sex attraction and "send it away." She wants me to get over the obsession with what happend. She says she hates watching me in agony.

A lot of that feels right, except that for years I've repressed the part of me that's attracted to guys. Now she wants me to discard that part altogether. I'm not sure that's right, or fair, or for the best. Then I read what you wrote, Morning Star, and question the wisdom of giving up all I've had and all I value for sex with a man, only to discover that I don't like it at all. I think that's a very real possibility, despite the erotic appeal.

My T has a small wooden box on the table next to his chair, and he suggested (not the first time) that we leave all of this "in the box" for a few days until I see him again on Tuesday. He thinks I've let this get too intense, and that I need a break. I think he's right.

I'm going to stay away from the site for a few days, I think...maybe until Tuesday or Wednesday. That's unless I drop into the hole again and need y'alls help getting out.

Thanks to all of you for the help and support.

Take care, guys.

Peter


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#39391 - 01/20/06 02:43 PM Re: and just when things were going so well...
Morning Star Offline
Member

Registered: 12/21/04
Posts: 1124
Loc: Home
\:\)

_________________________
~ It's over!...Let go of Thy Past, Remember Thy Self ~

Why Don't People Heal, by Caroline Myss; 30 days to clean up your vibrations - Abraham-Hicks

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#39392 - 01/20/06 05:31 PM Re: and just when things were going so well...
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Peter,

A lot has been said above above sexuality and labels, and here I can only add that so far as I am concerned our main task is to be true to ourselves, not to the labels of Hollywood or Madison Avenue. Gay? Straight? What about all the territory in between and all around? Why should we limit the range of our own options and possibilities for happiness and fulfillment to suit stereotypes and empty cliches?

I think the real questions are things like this: What do I want and need? Can I be faithful to anyone assuming I love that person enough? What else in a relationship do I value apart from sex? Is a drastic change worth the loss of what I already have? It is possible for anyone ever to feel 100% sexually fulfilled? And so on.

I suggest this as a way of asking you whether, for you, the essential question is really so simple as "am I gay?".

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#39393 - 01/20/06 11:43 PM Re: and just when things were going so well...
seeker2 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/11/06
Posts: 4
Loc: Salt Lake City, Ut
Peter and Morning Star,

After reading the posts, I feel as though I have found what may be the last of the onion layers I have been discovering about myself. What you guys wrote really hit home, and I have been dancing around the issue for some time. I actually feel as though a weight has been taken off my chest.
My sincere thanks to all the guys that make the effort to write into this great tool,MS.
I do not feel comfortable writing much yet, I will be reading. Thanks


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#39394 - 01/24/06 02:21 AM Re: and just when things were going so well...
Peter 1950 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/29/05
Posts: 51
Loc: Atlanta
Larry and Seeker2,

Thanks for your posts. Larry, you've given me lots to consider, and I think you're probably right. Thought I'd share your post with my T tomorrow, and I expect a look over his glasses; you might know this look. It says: So why didn't you buy into it when I told you that? He said something very similar last week. The few days away have helped to get re-centered and settled down. I'm looking forward to tomorrow's therapy.

Tomorrow will also be interesting as it includes a scheduled phone call with someone from my past, a gay man to whom I was strongly attracted and with whom I spent a fair amount of time through a common industry committee assignment. I liked him a lot, and I was very comfortable in his company, but never (intentionally) revealed anything about my past or my attraction. We're going to talk about that tomorrow. I had a similar conversation a few weeks ago with a college roommate. It was a help. We'll see how tomorrow goes. I'm very hopeful. For me it's very powerful to unlock the past, and to unlock the hold it's had on me. I respect your opinion, as I do the opinions of a great many here. Any thoughts?

Seeker2, I'm really intrigued. It's hard for me to imagine what those onion layers were, but if it was a help to you, I'm really pleased. One of the things that's tough on all of us has been keeping all these secrets for years. It's a pretty powerful experience to tell your story...but only when you are ready. I understand your reluctance right now. And you should certainly follow your instincts.

Take care, guys.

Peter


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#39395 - 01/24/06 05:19 AM Re: and just when things were going so well...
Andrew Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/25/03
Posts: 1192
I remembering reading here that labels are for soup cans, it might have been Larry that said it, he usually has the good one liners. Sexuality, in my opinion, is a moving target. I think our ability to express ourselves sexually changes with our experience and the partners we are with. I value emotional fidelity and friendship above what gender a person may be having sex with. I have never lost any sleep over wondering whether I was gay, straight, bi or whatever. I just see myself as a sexual being .... although not so much now that I'm 55. Hey, it was a lot better when I was 30! Peace, Andrew

_________________________
there is no courage without anxiety

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#39396 - 01/24/06 06:02 AM Re: and just when things were going so well...
Morning Star Offline
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Registered: 12/21/04
Posts: 1124
Loc: Home
Telling our life story is what frees us from our past, as it grants us the opportunity to revisit our past objectively, to retrieve our memories and the wisdom embedded in them.
What we forget to understand the first time, we get the opportunity to understand the second time, for life is a continuum, and offers endless possibilities to empower ourselves. And to keep retelling our story is the best way to gain enough wisdom from it so that we eventually feel gratitude for it. That is when we eventually feel free, that is when it stops bothering us. Then we are ready to let go, for we donít need to, any more, we have made peace with our past.
That is when we realize that we have actually moved on, while our story has stayed where they belong, in the past. Thus, the only way to unlock the prison of the past is by picking up the crystal of wisdom embedded in it. That sets all the past emotions free, so that we are free choose our>
_________________________
~ It's over!...Let go of Thy Past, Remember Thy Self ~

Why Don't People Heal, by Caroline Myss; 30 days to clean up your vibrations - Abraham-Hicks

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#39397 - 01/25/06 02:49 AM Re: and just when things were going so well...
Peter 1950 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/29/05
Posts: 51
Loc: Atlanta
Morning Star,

You've helped me to understand how I got to a spot a couple of weeks ago when I was feeling really good. I'm not far from there now, and making progress. I think your observations about telling and retelling our life story are right on the mark. I want badly to move on, but sense that I'm not there yet. But, I am getting there, in large part due to this site and everyone here. Thanks, man.

Andrew,

I love wisdom tempered with humor. We're the same age and I completely understand your point. I think you're right, and if I back off from trying to "make a decision" I think my life will be much easier...maybe even fun again, at least from time-to-time. Thanks so much for the wisdom and the chuckle.

As always my deep appreciation to all. You guys are the best.

Take care,

Peter


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#39398 - 01/25/06 08:43 PM Re: and just when things were going so well...
Splitting Offline
Member

Registered: 12/26/04
Posts: 62
I think another applicable term here would be ambivalence (excuse the spelling0. Whether it is a sexual orientation issue, a self esteem issue, a career issue, a relationship issue, anything that has any significance in our lives may have two apparently different answers. Heteror vs homo?, I'm good, I 'm horrible? I am a good worker, I will be fired tomorrow? I love this lady, I want to peel my skin off when I am with her?

We have been programmed into black or white. Write or wrong. It has been the only way that we can make sense of the world. Someone mentioned the word "spectrum" above. It is a great word for us to try to recognize. I do not mean the old cliche, "Its not black or white...there are various shades of gray". No I mean the true spectrum between pure white light and the complete absence of light...black. There is an entire rainbow of colors to be realized.

I so struggle with ambivalence. The thought of living in a world full of color terrifies me. Each day I teeter back and forth between all or nothing. I just have to try to tell myself that there are no absolutes. Man may try to create them to answer questions that he cannot possibly comprehend, but there are no absolutes.

Hopefully this helps and thanks for letting me rant. I needed that.

Danny


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#39399 - 01/26/06 02:39 AM Re: and just when things were going so well...
Peter 1950 Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/29/05
Posts: 51
Loc: Atlanta
Danny,

Yes, that does help. I'm trying to find answers, and I think I may have been too focused on black and white, gay or straight. I know that I love my wife; I love living with her; I'm emotionally connected to her; and I want to stay with her. Here's the catch. Having repressed another side of me for years, I want to integrate it with the rest of me, not discard it. I don't want to leave her and lead a "gay" life. But I don't want to repress that side of me anymore.

It is complicated and it is all about the technicolor rainbow that you describe. Thanks for the "rant". I think I needed it too.

Peter


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#39400 - 01/26/06 03:32 AM Re: and just when things were going so well...
Hauser Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 2962
Loc: United States
Peter. I've been sexually confused since the age of 12. I finally decided to try a gay relationship. I wansn't really impressed. At least I tried, but my only point is that just because you might always be wondering if it might be more satisfying or fulfilling, it might also not be for you either.

If you love many things about your wife, and are only considering leaving her because you life MIGHT be better, do you think that's really rational? You must also consider the possibility that you might find the gay lifestyle empty and simply not for you like I did.


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#39401 - 01/26/06 03:01 PM Re: and just when things were going so well...
Splitting Offline
Member

Registered: 12/26/04
Posts: 62
My "rant" was not to encourage or discourage the pursuit of one life style over the other. I look it as welcoming that part of you as a true part of you. I had to come to grips that my first three know sexuasl partners were men. Starting very young and into my teenage years. There is a certain amount of programming associated with those relationships. There is nothing that can be done about that.

Which ever direction you choose, please remember that the other lifestyle is still a part of you that needs to be cherished. Does that mean that I, as a heterosexual male should have homosexual affairs...no! What is does mean is that by facing, admitting, and embracing the various parts of me and letting all those parts know that I, the now grown up Danny, is driving the bus, they can all join in and start contributing to the joy of my current life instead of posing a constant barrage of "What ifs".

What if I left my wife?
What if I have an affair (either homo or hetero sexual)?
What if I were only more attractive?
What if I were only more desirable?

What if...you fill in the blank.

You say you know you love your wife. if this is true, cherish the fact that you know this. Love what is known and answer the "What If" question with an answer like,"Thanks for your input and I understand why that lifestyle is important to you...but I am driving the bus now and I like this one. Now let's learn how to work togther". It is amazing, they will actually listen sometimes.

This session is worth just what you paid for it...but again, thanks for letting me rant.
Danny


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#39402 - 01/26/06 03:05 PM Re: and just when things were going so well...
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Peter and Hauser,

I don't have an answer for this, but here's how I see the problem.

When a boy is growing up that's the time he learns about boundaries, how to relate to people socially, and finally how to relate to others sexually. It happens gradually, and while yeah, sure, growing up is always a drama, I think it is still a fact that what a kid needs is a stable safe and loving environment that allows him to lay down a solid foundation - brick by brick, as it were.

But if the boy is abused, whatever foundation he has is wrecked and efforts to continue building will be hijacked. That wreckage doesn't disappear just because he becomes 18 or 21 and is now an "adult" (another label). He will carry all the crap from abuse into his adulthood and it will affect how he views himself, his sexuality, and sex itself. No wonder we feel so screwed up.

So this brings me back to the questions that you raise at the end of your post above, Hauser. I think a lot of the decision-making in this area is emotional rather than rational, but okay, I see what you mean and I agree. There is a lot of tough thinking to do here, and as I said above, I would be wary of simplistic labels and easy solutions.

What hangs over all this is a hard fact: deciding things like our sexuality and where our future happiness in this area lies requires that we feel secure and safe about who we are and what we need and want out of life. Survivors have a lot of rebuilding and hard work to do before they can say they really are in that secure and safe place that will allow them to make a solid and lasting decision.

Much love,
Larry

PS to Andrew: I wish the "Labels are for soup cans" saying were mine! It's so true!!! But it was Dewey2k who gave us that one.

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#39403 - 01/27/06 03:14 PM Re: and just when things were going so well...
Peter 1950 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/29/05
Posts: 51
Loc: Atlanta
Hauser, Splitting and Larry,

Thanks, guys. You've all given me a lot to think about. I do value a great deal of my current life, and I expect to stay in my marriage. I am trying to find ways to integrate the stuff that I now understand to be true, rather than to deny it. Had a great conversation with a friend this week. He's a gay may in a stable relationship. We've known each other for about 20 years, and spent a lot of time together (because of work...no sexual relationship) until my job changed 15 years ago. We've stayed in touch, but only infrequently. I decided to reach out to him this week, and it was a very rewarding conversation. Like people here, if you chose wisely, you can find people who are receptive, who care, and who will offer love and support. A remarkable experience.

I'm looking forward to Monday's therapy with my wife. I'm going to bring up her "send it away" remark to see what our T thinks about that. (Naturally, she'll reply by asking what I think! I know that's right, but it is annoying, isn't it?) Any way, since she's said that she wants me to get over all this and to take anything having to do with same sex attraction and "send it away" I figured I wouldn't even bring it up this weekend.

I wonder if she'll ask about a movie. There's only one out right now that I'm particularly interested to see, but I'm sure she's not going to want to see it.

Anyway, thanks for everything. Your wisdom, your insight and your support is much appreciated, guys.

Take care,

Peter


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#39404 - 01/28/06 07:46 PM Re: and just when things were going so well...
Morning Star Offline
Member

Registered: 12/21/04
Posts: 1124
Loc: Home
Peter,
I am so glad to hear that you are making positive headways with your wife in your theraphy. Certainly this thread singular helped me clear lots of my old cobwebs and deep seated truths were shown light of the day.
Ultimately we owe it ourselves to find the truth and to not any one else. It is I can say the ultimate act of self love. I am glad to see you find self love so profoundly.

_________________________
~ It's over!...Let go of Thy Past, Remember Thy Self ~

Why Don't People Heal, by Caroline Myss; 30 days to clean up your vibrations - Abraham-Hicks

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#39405 - 01/29/06 07:09 PM Re: and just when things were going so well...
Josh1 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/02/06
Posts: 39
Loc: New York
Peter, what great work in this thread. I think this is more of a cheerleading post, but I want to recognize how brave and honest your disclosures and discussions are here. I, too, have battled with my sexual identity. I do not think these questions and issues will go away. They have a nasty way of popping back up the more we push try to push away. However, my experiences and belief is that honesty is the greatest means we have to achieve happiness. yes, these are difficult conversations with your wife and she may wish for you to be a little less honest about your sexuality complexities, but honesty and openness is the greatest tool you have to make both of you happy and do what is right in the relationship. It's better to have uncomfortable conversations now than to find yourself in a really uncomfortable situation later. Good for you for being honest with your self, your wife, and this community. It is wonderful and inspiring.


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#39406 - 01/29/06 08:51 PM Re: and just when things were going so well...
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Peter,

There is one part of your post that I wanted to come back to if I may:

Quote:
I'm looking forward to Monday's therapy with my wife. I'm going to bring up her "send it away" remark to see what our T thinks about that. (Naturally, she'll reply by asking what I think! I know that's right, but it is annoying, isn't it?) Any way, since she's said that she wants me to get over all this and to take anything having to do with same sex attraction and "send it away" I figured I wouldn't even bring it up this weekend.
It would be useful for both of you to bear in mind that each of you has to feel that you can voice your feelings and emotions honestly. If either of you feels you are being trumped all the time or guilt-tripped into silence, then - simply put - that means that that particular session isn't working out so well.

I know exactly how you feel Peter, and so many times I have difficulty communicating with my wife about abuse issues because I am fearful of where she will take the conversation. I find a lot of what she says to be selfish and hurtful, though I know she doesn't mean it that way. I keep telling myself that she has to have a voice, same as I do. It's out of our conflicting feelings and hurt that some sense of resolution eventually has to come, and for that to happen both of us have to be willing to listen and learn from the other, even if what we hear hurts and seems insensitive.

It's all about solving the problems, not winning the arguments, and that's what makes it so difficult.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#39407 - 01/30/06 01:48 PM Re: and just when things were going so well...
Peter 1950 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/29/05
Posts: 51
Loc: Atlanta
Morning Star, Josh and Larry,

Guys, thanks so very much.

Morning Star, I'm happy if this thread was of some help to you. Your wisdom and insights have been a big help to me, and I really appreciate you for that.

Josh,I think you're right about honesty. The more I think about it the more convinced I am that my destiny was to become a gay man, but my reaction to my abuse was to turn away from that. I want to find a way to acknowledge that, accept it and integrate it in my life somehow (maybe by having both gay and straight friends). My wife isn't ready for that yet, and may never be. Her "send it away" remark still rings in my ears. I've corresponded more with my (gay) friend from years ago, who is working with me to find a time to get together. He has been enormously supportive and understanding, and has helped me to see how good it is to be able to have honest conversations about stuff that matters with people you care about (just like all of you here). On Saturday morning, he wrote "Your life is just beginning." I can't get that out of my head. I do know, however that honesty in my marriage is essential.

Larry, of course you're right. Your insights are always hit on the mark. Your choice of words "guilt-tripped into silence" really resonated with me, as that's the way I've felt the past few days. My wife just doesn't want to hear about any of this anymore. So far, in our sessions, there's been a good balance of opportunity, if not participation. My wife sometimes holds back. I don't want to "trump" her in any way by bringing up that remark, but I believe it's an important issue and we need to get it on the table. She's still, I think, of the mind that I need to "figure out who I am" then she'll decide if she can live with that. Today's discussion at our therapy session might take us pretty close to that point. We'll see.

Guys, I am indebted to you in a way that I'll never be able to repay. Your support is so important to me that words fail me. I've learned a lot from all of you in this thread. Many, many thanks.

Take care,

Peter


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#39408 - 01/30/06 02:34 PM Re: and just when things were going so well...
Morning Star Offline
Member

Registered: 12/21/04
Posts: 1124
Loc: Home
Peter, finding the truth about our sexual self a part of finding our self. So, it IS a solitary journey by all means. No one can aid it, let alone understand it, except those on the path as you.

Others might just get confused or flustered at their inability to put 'some sense' into you or as you say, what is the fuss about??

For now, you can say, "I am busy finding my Self and that is the most important task on any life."

All the best,

_________________________
~ It's over!...Let go of Thy Past, Remember Thy Self ~

Why Don't People Heal, by Caroline Myss; 30 days to clean up your vibrations - Abraham-Hicks

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#39409 - 01/30/06 02:40 PM Re: and just when things were going so well...
Morning Star Offline
Member

Registered: 12/21/04
Posts: 1124
Loc: Home
You owe this clarity only to your soul, and once your wife realises that how important it is for you, she will begin to respect that, since you respect your journey.

_________________________
~ It's over!...Let go of Thy Past, Remember Thy Self ~

Why Don't People Heal, by Caroline Myss; 30 days to clean up your vibrations - Abraham-Hicks

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#39410 - 01/31/06 03:07 AM Re: and just when things were going so well...
Peter 1950 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/29/05
Posts: 51
Loc: Atlanta
Morning Star,

Your post was so timely. I'm feel like I've been run over. Therapy with my wife sucked. I'm finally connecting on a real level with a few close friends, mostly gay, and having real, honest, genuine conversations with people I respect. I never had the courage to do that before, and it is intensely powerful.

I can't bring myself to tell my wife about it, as I'm sure she'll feel threatened, and I don't want to do that to her, etc. etc. I'm probably just too chicken-shit. Anyway, when asked how she's feeling about how we're doing now, my wife of 33 years just sat there today and said she's (yawn) very busy with her business and planning a wedding for our daughter, so she's just really busy. No time to have feelings about all this.

I'm ready to quit couples counseling. It's not getting us anywhere. Our T thinks I should join a tennis team, where I'll find male acceptance and companionship. I feel threatened around jocks, and I don't expect acceptance or companionship. There's a great solution!

My good friend in Connecticut wrote on Saturday, "Your life is just beginning." And he's a gay man coaching me to keep trying with my wife! Why am I getting such support from him and none from her?

I don't get it. Maybe it's just that I'm pissed, but keeping it in. Prefering to get numb instead. Working on that.

But your advice is good advice, Morning Star. It is my journey, and she clearly doesn't understand it. I need to keep on, keepin' on. And I will. I'm just having a real bad night. I'll get through it. Sometimes this really, really sucks. Tomorrow will be better. It has to be.

Peter


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#39411 - 01/31/06 06:41 AM Re: and just when things were going so well...
Morning Star Offline
Member

Registered: 12/21/04
Posts: 1124
Loc: Home
Well, your post couldn't have been more timely; as I just finished telephonic conversation with my dad, I called him up to connect with after many years and he ended up using this opportunity to brag about himself, as I gathered he was sitting with a friend whom he wanted to impress. Later he proceeds to giving me some life advice and about my career etc. So it was disgusting as he had no real concern about me, just needed to elevate his self esteem, and I on the other hand allowed him; I could not bring myself to tell him to just shut up.

I was hoping he would say good things about me finally, and there in lies the paradox, my dependency makes me vulnerable to abuse.

Further, having been rejected by my father, and men later in life who represent him, I turn to my mother or women later in my life who represented her, for emotional approval; but that also made me vulnerable for abuse of power as I was giving them the power to emotionally reject me. We get hurt when they donít approval for our actions and see them as put-downs or when they are too busy sorting out their own lives we see it as apathy.

Dependency also leaves us open for emotional manipulation, many wives use this power wonderfully. Our own emotional dependency is what that makes us the enabler in emotional control. We allow it and that is the key word. As severe control stems from severe dependency as happens during childhood, we are totally dependent on our parents for our emotional well being, this makes us vulnerable to them and we cannot say no!
Now I am willing to free myself from this dependency as I am learning to nourish my self, physically as well emotional, and above all spiritually. So the only way out I see of this quagmire, is not fighting but reconnection with our own power, our emotional self.

Unless men are willing to feel and makes themselves emotionally available or vulnerable, gay men are the closest approximations available, for the time being, amongst men to a womanís emotional touch, her compassion to listen and her willingness to feel, but yes without her controlling or sMothering. Have you noticed how after a while in a relationship, a woman starts acting like your mother?

_________________________
~ It's over!...Let go of Thy Past, Remember Thy Self ~

Why Don't People Heal, by Caroline Myss; 30 days to clean up your vibrations - Abraham-Hicks

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#39412 - 01/31/06 07:32 AM Re: and just when things were going so well...
Morning Star Offline
Member

Registered: 12/21/04
Posts: 1124
Loc: Home
In our bodyís energy system, our sexual and emotional self have the same energy point, the Hara. That is why sexual arousal and emotional arousal are so closely linked.
When sexual abuse occurs during childhood, a certain mix up is liable to happen as our emotional being is not so developed, or our ability to detect the difference between the an emotional uplifting and a sexual arousal, for they both feel the same to a child.
But when we grow with this confused framework, further mix-up is liable to happen, as we might get confused between conflicting triggers; unless we are willing to tune into our emotional being more intensely, through our emotions. Giving up our emotional dependency on others is the first step in the right direction towards emotional freedom.

Reconnecting with our emotional self means we fine tune our sensory perceptions and learn to decipher between closely-linked emotions. For example when we feel angry we seldom know where is it coming from; a replay of old hurt, disrespect, a new hurt or simply a new way of perceiving things. This way, gradually we fine tune ourselves enough to learn to differentiate between two very close signals, love and sex. That ends our sexual confusion.

_________________________
~ It's over!...Let go of Thy Past, Remember Thy Self ~

Why Don't People Heal, by Caroline Myss; 30 days to clean up your vibrations - Abraham-Hicks

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#39413 - 01/31/06 01:52 PM Re: and just when things were going so well...
Peter 1950 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/29/05
Posts: 51
Loc: Atlanta
Morning Star,

Good morning. Thanks very much for your post. I'm sorry to hear about the call with your father. Don't know why people behave that way, but you're probably right that he was trying to impress. I sought but never received the interest, attention and approval of my father. It was bad that I never got it, but worse that when I was grown and out of the house,he finally found the "son he never had" (my words not his, but he never had to say it, it was pretty clear) in a neighbor's son and wouldn't shut up about him whenever I came to visit. So, I can relate. And I'm sorry that you went through that.

Today is a better day. I slept pretty well, but I think that's because I've come to realize that what I'm working on is, indeed, my journey. Thanks, in large part, to you. Asking my wife to be part of it makes no sense. We started couples therapy because I wanted to find a way to be together at the end of this. That takes some active particpation on her part, and the participation has not been happening. It was never so clear to me as yesterday when she was asked how she felt about all of this and her answer was basically that she was too busy to give it much thought.

That hit pretty hard, felt strongly like rejection and her not caring. Maybe she's just protecting herself. Clearly her's is a wait-and-see approach. I've come to accept that as the way it is and the way it will be, and that it may very well be the right way. The journey is mine. She's welcome to come along, but whether she does or not, it's for me to do, and it's something I must do. I think it's time to suspend (or maybe end) couples therapy.

I'm much more centered today, more clear about what I'm doing, and why I'm doing it. I see my T at 3:00, and expect an interesting session.

Many, many thanks for your wisdom, advice and support. I've learned so much from you, and you've helped me in remarkable ways. I appreciate everything you've done for me, and wish that somehow I could help you when you are feeling pain. Sounds like you understand it all very well, but that doesn't diminish the pain, does it? I hope today's a better day for you.

Peter


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#39414 - 01/31/06 03:49 PM Re: and just when things were going so well...
Morning Star Offline
Member

Registered: 12/21/04
Posts: 1124
Loc: Home
Well Peter I have learned so much from my parents that I see them as my teachers, and today's phone call was another reminder about the areas I need to work on further. Not depending on others approval, and start approving of everything I do, myself.

_________________________
~ It's over!...Let go of Thy Past, Remember Thy Self ~

Why Don't People Heal, by Caroline Myss; 30 days to clean up your vibrations - Abraham-Hicks

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#39415 - 02/01/06 01:32 AM Re: and just when things were going so well...
Peter 1950 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/29/05
Posts: 51
Loc: Atlanta
Morning Star,

Sounds like the answer for us both. Much appreciation.

Peter


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#39416 - 02/01/06 07:34 AM Re: and just when things were going so well...
Morning Star Offline
Member

Registered: 12/21/04
Posts: 1124
Loc: Home
Guess what, I received this quote just now....

"Brainwash yourself before somebody nasty beats you to it."
-Rob Brezsny

_________________________
~ It's over!...Let go of Thy Past, Remember Thy Self ~

Why Don't People Heal, by Caroline Myss; 30 days to clean up your vibrations - Abraham-Hicks

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#39417 - 02/01/06 01:04 PM Re: and just when things were going so well...
Peter 1950 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/29/05
Posts: 51
Loc: Atlanta
Morning Star,

Perfect.

Peter


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#39418 - 02/01/06 07:32 PM Re: and just when things were going so well...
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Peter, Morning Star,

This has been a remarkable exchange between the two of you. Thanks for sharing it with the rest of us. It shows how special things can become here.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#39419 - 02/02/06 02:16 AM Re: and just when things were going so well...
Peter 1950 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/29/05
Posts: 51
Loc: Atlanta
Larry,

Okay...now I am embarrassed. Maybe it's time for this thread to end.

But, thanks.

Peter


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#39420 - 02/02/06 08:14 AM Re: and just when things were going so well...
Morning Star Offline
Member

Registered: 12/21/04
Posts: 1124
Loc: Home
Strands of Our Heart

These strands
of our heart
that bind you and me;
also bind me to Thee.

They leave us at times
so that we can pick up
fresh ones.

These strands
of our heart,
they make our lives
journey endless
As they take us ahead
each day,
from darkness to the Light.

These strands of our heart
they make this journey
more perfect and
worth cherishing,

I cherish you
my strand,
as you come to me
from Thee.

_________________________
~ It's over!...Let go of Thy Past, Remember Thy Self ~

Why Don't People Heal, by Caroline Myss; 30 days to clean up your vibrations - Abraham-Hicks

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