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#39404 - 01/28/06 07:46 PM Re: and just when things were going so well...
Morning Star Offline
Member

Registered: 12/21/04
Posts: 1124
Loc: Home
Peter,
I am so glad to hear that you are making positive headways with your wife in your theraphy. Certainly this thread singular helped me clear lots of my old cobwebs and deep seated truths were shown light of the day.
Ultimately we owe it ourselves to find the truth and to not any one else. It is I can say the ultimate act of self love. I am glad to see you find self love so profoundly.

_________________________
~ It's over!...Let go of Thy Past, Remember Thy Self ~

Why Don't People Heal, by Caroline Myss; 30 days to clean up your vibrations - Abraham-Hicks

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#39405 - 01/29/06 07:09 PM Re: and just when things were going so well...
Josh1 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/02/06
Posts: 39
Loc: New York
Peter, what great work in this thread. I think this is more of a cheerleading post, but I want to recognize how brave and honest your disclosures and discussions are here. I, too, have battled with my sexual identity. I do not think these questions and issues will go away. They have a nasty way of popping back up the more we push try to push away. However, my experiences and belief is that honesty is the greatest means we have to achieve happiness. yes, these are difficult conversations with your wife and she may wish for you to be a little less honest about your sexuality complexities, but honesty and openness is the greatest tool you have to make both of you happy and do what is right in the relationship. It's better to have uncomfortable conversations now than to find yourself in a really uncomfortable situation later. Good for you for being honest with your self, your wife, and this community. It is wonderful and inspiring.


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#39406 - 01/29/06 08:51 PM Re: and just when things were going so well...
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Peter,

There is one part of your post that I wanted to come back to if I may:

Quote:
I'm looking forward to Monday's therapy with my wife. I'm going to bring up her "send it away" remark to see what our T thinks about that. (Naturally, she'll reply by asking what I think! I know that's right, but it is annoying, isn't it?) Any way, since she's said that she wants me to get over all this and to take anything having to do with same sex attraction and "send it away" I figured I wouldn't even bring it up this weekend.
It would be useful for both of you to bear in mind that each of you has to feel that you can voice your feelings and emotions honestly. If either of you feels you are being trumped all the time or guilt-tripped into silence, then - simply put - that means that that particular session isn't working out so well.

I know exactly how you feel Peter, and so many times I have difficulty communicating with my wife about abuse issues because I am fearful of where she will take the conversation. I find a lot of what she says to be selfish and hurtful, though I know she doesn't mean it that way. I keep telling myself that she has to have a voice, same as I do. It's out of our conflicting feelings and hurt that some sense of resolution eventually has to come, and for that to happen both of us have to be willing to listen and learn from the other, even if what we hear hurts and seems insensitive.

It's all about solving the problems, not winning the arguments, and that's what makes it so difficult.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#39407 - 01/30/06 01:48 PM Re: and just when things were going so well...
Peter 1950 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/29/05
Posts: 51
Loc: Atlanta
Morning Star, Josh and Larry,

Guys, thanks so very much.

Morning Star, I'm happy if this thread was of some help to you. Your wisdom and insights have been a big help to me, and I really appreciate you for that.

Josh,I think you're right about honesty. The more I think about it the more convinced I am that my destiny was to become a gay man, but my reaction to my abuse was to turn away from that. I want to find a way to acknowledge that, accept it and integrate it in my life somehow (maybe by having both gay and straight friends). My wife isn't ready for that yet, and may never be. Her "send it away" remark still rings in my ears. I've corresponded more with my (gay) friend from years ago, who is working with me to find a time to get together. He has been enormously supportive and understanding, and has helped me to see how good it is to be able to have honest conversations about stuff that matters with people you care about (just like all of you here). On Saturday morning, he wrote "Your life is just beginning." I can't get that out of my head. I do know, however that honesty in my marriage is essential.

Larry, of course you're right. Your insights are always hit on the mark. Your choice of words "guilt-tripped into silence" really resonated with me, as that's the way I've felt the past few days. My wife just doesn't want to hear about any of this anymore. So far, in our sessions, there's been a good balance of opportunity, if not participation. My wife sometimes holds back. I don't want to "trump" her in any way by bringing up that remark, but I believe it's an important issue and we need to get it on the table. She's still, I think, of the mind that I need to "figure out who I am" then she'll decide if she can live with that. Today's discussion at our therapy session might take us pretty close to that point. We'll see.

Guys, I am indebted to you in a way that I'll never be able to repay. Your support is so important to me that words fail me. I've learned a lot from all of you in this thread. Many, many thanks.

Take care,

Peter


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#39408 - 01/30/06 02:34 PM Re: and just when things were going so well...
Morning Star Offline
Member

Registered: 12/21/04
Posts: 1124
Loc: Home
Peter, finding the truth about our sexual self a part of finding our self. So, it IS a solitary journey by all means. No one can aid it, let alone understand it, except those on the path as you.

Others might just get confused or flustered at their inability to put 'some sense' into you or as you say, what is the fuss about??

For now, you can say, "I am busy finding my Self and that is the most important task on any life."

All the best,

_________________________
~ It's over!...Let go of Thy Past, Remember Thy Self ~

Why Don't People Heal, by Caroline Myss; 30 days to clean up your vibrations - Abraham-Hicks

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#39409 - 01/30/06 02:40 PM Re: and just when things were going so well...
Morning Star Offline
Member

Registered: 12/21/04
Posts: 1124
Loc: Home
You owe this clarity only to your soul, and once your wife realises that how important it is for you, she will begin to respect that, since you respect your journey.

_________________________
~ It's over!...Let go of Thy Past, Remember Thy Self ~

Why Don't People Heal, by Caroline Myss; 30 days to clean up your vibrations - Abraham-Hicks

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#39410 - 01/31/06 03:07 AM Re: and just when things were going so well...
Peter 1950 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/29/05
Posts: 51
Loc: Atlanta
Morning Star,

Your post was so timely. I'm feel like I've been run over. Therapy with my wife sucked. I'm finally connecting on a real level with a few close friends, mostly gay, and having real, honest, genuine conversations with people I respect. I never had the courage to do that before, and it is intensely powerful.

I can't bring myself to tell my wife about it, as I'm sure she'll feel threatened, and I don't want to do that to her, etc. etc. I'm probably just too chicken-shit. Anyway, when asked how she's feeling about how we're doing now, my wife of 33 years just sat there today and said she's (yawn) very busy with her business and planning a wedding for our daughter, so she's just really busy. No time to have feelings about all this.

I'm ready to quit couples counseling. It's not getting us anywhere. Our T thinks I should join a tennis team, where I'll find male acceptance and companionship. I feel threatened around jocks, and I don't expect acceptance or companionship. There's a great solution!

My good friend in Connecticut wrote on Saturday, "Your life is just beginning." And he's a gay man coaching me to keep trying with my wife! Why am I getting such support from him and none from her?

I don't get it. Maybe it's just that I'm pissed, but keeping it in. Prefering to get numb instead. Working on that.

But your advice is good advice, Morning Star. It is my journey, and she clearly doesn't understand it. I need to keep on, keepin' on. And I will. I'm just having a real bad night. I'll get through it. Sometimes this really, really sucks. Tomorrow will be better. It has to be.

Peter


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#39411 - 01/31/06 06:41 AM Re: and just when things were going so well...
Morning Star Offline
Member

Registered: 12/21/04
Posts: 1124
Loc: Home
Well, your post couldn't have been more timely; as I just finished telephonic conversation with my dad, I called him up to connect with after many years and he ended up using this opportunity to brag about himself, as I gathered he was sitting with a friend whom he wanted to impress. Later he proceeds to giving me some life advice and about my career etc. So it was disgusting as he had no real concern about me, just needed to elevate his self esteem, and I on the other hand allowed him; I could not bring myself to tell him to just shut up.

I was hoping he would say good things about me finally, and there in lies the paradox, my dependency makes me vulnerable to abuse.

Further, having been rejected by my father, and men later in life who represent him, I turn to my mother or women later in my life who represented her, for emotional approval; but that also made me vulnerable for abuse of power as I was giving them the power to emotionally reject me. We get hurt when they donít approval for our actions and see them as put-downs or when they are too busy sorting out their own lives we see it as apathy.

Dependency also leaves us open for emotional manipulation, many wives use this power wonderfully. Our own emotional dependency is what that makes us the enabler in emotional control. We allow it and that is the key word. As severe control stems from severe dependency as happens during childhood, we are totally dependent on our parents for our emotional well being, this makes us vulnerable to them and we cannot say no!
Now I am willing to free myself from this dependency as I am learning to nourish my self, physically as well emotional, and above all spiritually. So the only way out I see of this quagmire, is not fighting but reconnection with our own power, our emotional self.

Unless men are willing to feel and makes themselves emotionally available or vulnerable, gay men are the closest approximations available, for the time being, amongst men to a womanís emotional touch, her compassion to listen and her willingness to feel, but yes without her controlling or sMothering. Have you noticed how after a while in a relationship, a woman starts acting like your mother?

_________________________
~ It's over!...Let go of Thy Past, Remember Thy Self ~

Why Don't People Heal, by Caroline Myss; 30 days to clean up your vibrations - Abraham-Hicks

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#39412 - 01/31/06 07:32 AM Re: and just when things were going so well...
Morning Star Offline
Member

Registered: 12/21/04
Posts: 1124
Loc: Home
In our bodyís energy system, our sexual and emotional self have the same energy point, the Hara. That is why sexual arousal and emotional arousal are so closely linked.
When sexual abuse occurs during childhood, a certain mix up is liable to happen as our emotional being is not so developed, or our ability to detect the difference between the an emotional uplifting and a sexual arousal, for they both feel the same to a child.
But when we grow with this confused framework, further mix-up is liable to happen, as we might get confused between conflicting triggers; unless we are willing to tune into our emotional being more intensely, through our emotions. Giving up our emotional dependency on others is the first step in the right direction towards emotional freedom.

Reconnecting with our emotional self means we fine tune our sensory perceptions and learn to decipher between closely-linked emotions. For example when we feel angry we seldom know where is it coming from; a replay of old hurt, disrespect, a new hurt or simply a new way of perceiving things. This way, gradually we fine tune ourselves enough to learn to differentiate between two very close signals, love and sex. That ends our sexual confusion.

_________________________
~ It's over!...Let go of Thy Past, Remember Thy Self ~

Why Don't People Heal, by Caroline Myss; 30 days to clean up your vibrations - Abraham-Hicks

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#39413 - 01/31/06 01:52 PM Re: and just when things were going so well...
Peter 1950 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/29/05
Posts: 51
Loc: Atlanta
Morning Star,

Good morning. Thanks very much for your post. I'm sorry to hear about the call with your father. Don't know why people behave that way, but you're probably right that he was trying to impress. I sought but never received the interest, attention and approval of my father. It was bad that I never got it, but worse that when I was grown and out of the house,he finally found the "son he never had" (my words not his, but he never had to say it, it was pretty clear) in a neighbor's son and wouldn't shut up about him whenever I came to visit. So, I can relate. And I'm sorry that you went through that.

Today is a better day. I slept pretty well, but I think that's because I've come to realize that what I'm working on is, indeed, my journey. Thanks, in large part, to you. Asking my wife to be part of it makes no sense. We started couples therapy because I wanted to find a way to be together at the end of this. That takes some active particpation on her part, and the participation has not been happening. It was never so clear to me as yesterday when she was asked how she felt about all of this and her answer was basically that she was too busy to give it much thought.

That hit pretty hard, felt strongly like rejection and her not caring. Maybe she's just protecting herself. Clearly her's is a wait-and-see approach. I've come to accept that as the way it is and the way it will be, and that it may very well be the right way. The journey is mine. She's welcome to come along, but whether she does or not, it's for me to do, and it's something I must do. I think it's time to suspend (or maybe end) couples therapy.

I'm much more centered today, more clear about what I'm doing, and why I'm doing it. I see my T at 3:00, and expect an interesting session.

Many, many thanks for your wisdom, advice and support. I've learned so much from you, and you've helped me in remarkable ways. I appreciate everything you've done for me, and wish that somehow I could help you when you are feeling pain. Sounds like you understand it all very well, but that doesn't diminish the pain, does it? I hope today's a better day for you.

Peter


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