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#39394 - 01/24/06 02:21 AM Re: and just when things were going so well...
Peter 1950 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/29/05
Posts: 51
Loc: Atlanta
Larry and Seeker2,

Thanks for your posts. Larry, you've given me lots to consider, and I think you're probably right. Thought I'd share your post with my T tomorrow, and I expect a look over his glasses; you might know this look. It says: So why didn't you buy into it when I told you that? He said something very similar last week. The few days away have helped to get re-centered and settled down. I'm looking forward to tomorrow's therapy.

Tomorrow will also be interesting as it includes a scheduled phone call with someone from my past, a gay man to whom I was strongly attracted and with whom I spent a fair amount of time through a common industry committee assignment. I liked him a lot, and I was very comfortable in his company, but never (intentionally) revealed anything about my past or my attraction. We're going to talk about that tomorrow. I had a similar conversation a few weeks ago with a college roommate. It was a help. We'll see how tomorrow goes. I'm very hopeful. For me it's very powerful to unlock the past, and to unlock the hold it's had on me. I respect your opinion, as I do the opinions of a great many here. Any thoughts?

Seeker2, I'm really intrigued. It's hard for me to imagine what those onion layers were, but if it was a help to you, I'm really pleased. One of the things that's tough on all of us has been keeping all these secrets for years. It's a pretty powerful experience to tell your story...but only when you are ready. I understand your reluctance right now. And you should certainly follow your instincts.

Take care, guys.

Peter


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#39395 - 01/24/06 05:19 AM Re: and just when things were going so well...
Andrew Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/25/03
Posts: 1192
I remembering reading here that labels are for soup cans, it might have been Larry that said it, he usually has the good one liners. Sexuality, in my opinion, is a moving target. I think our ability to express ourselves sexually changes with our experience and the partners we are with. I value emotional fidelity and friendship above what gender a person may be having sex with. I have never lost any sleep over wondering whether I was gay, straight, bi or whatever. I just see myself as a sexual being .... although not so much now that I'm 55. Hey, it was a lot better when I was 30! Peace, Andrew

_________________________
there is no courage without anxiety

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#39396 - 01/24/06 06:02 AM Re: and just when things were going so well...
Morning Star Offline
Member

Registered: 12/21/04
Posts: 1124
Loc: Home
Telling our life story is what frees us from our past, as it grants us the opportunity to revisit our past objectively, to retrieve our memories and the wisdom embedded in them.
What we forget to understand the first time, we get the opportunity to understand the second time, for life is a continuum, and offers endless possibilities to empower ourselves. And to keep retelling our story is the best way to gain enough wisdom from it so that we eventually feel gratitude for it. That is when we eventually feel free, that is when it stops bothering us. Then we are ready to let go, for we donít need to, any more, we have made peace with our past.
That is when we realize that we have actually moved on, while our story has stayed where they belong, in the past. Thus, the only way to unlock the prison of the past is by picking up the crystal of wisdom embedded in it. That sets all the past emotions free, so that we are free choose our>
_________________________
~ It's over!...Let go of Thy Past, Remember Thy Self ~

Why Don't People Heal, by Caroline Myss; 30 days to clean up your vibrations - Abraham-Hicks

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#39397 - 01/25/06 02:49 AM Re: and just when things were going so well...
Peter 1950 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/29/05
Posts: 51
Loc: Atlanta
Morning Star,

You've helped me to understand how I got to a spot a couple of weeks ago when I was feeling really good. I'm not far from there now, and making progress. I think your observations about telling and retelling our life story are right on the mark. I want badly to move on, but sense that I'm not there yet. But, I am getting there, in large part due to this site and everyone here. Thanks, man.

Andrew,

I love wisdom tempered with humor. We're the same age and I completely understand your point. I think you're right, and if I back off from trying to "make a decision" I think my life will be much easier...maybe even fun again, at least from time-to-time. Thanks so much for the wisdom and the chuckle.

As always my deep appreciation to all. You guys are the best.

Take care,

Peter


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#39398 - 01/25/06 08:43 PM Re: and just when things were going so well...
Splitting Offline
Member

Registered: 12/26/04
Posts: 62
I think another applicable term here would be ambivalence (excuse the spelling0. Whether it is a sexual orientation issue, a self esteem issue, a career issue, a relationship issue, anything that has any significance in our lives may have two apparently different answers. Heteror vs homo?, I'm good, I 'm horrible? I am a good worker, I will be fired tomorrow? I love this lady, I want to peel my skin off when I am with her?

We have been programmed into black or white. Write or wrong. It has been the only way that we can make sense of the world. Someone mentioned the word "spectrum" above. It is a great word for us to try to recognize. I do not mean the old cliche, "Its not black or white...there are various shades of gray". No I mean the true spectrum between pure white light and the complete absence of light...black. There is an entire rainbow of colors to be realized.

I so struggle with ambivalence. The thought of living in a world full of color terrifies me. Each day I teeter back and forth between all or nothing. I just have to try to tell myself that there are no absolutes. Man may try to create them to answer questions that he cannot possibly comprehend, but there are no absolutes.

Hopefully this helps and thanks for letting me rant. I needed that.

Danny


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#39399 - 01/26/06 02:39 AM Re: and just when things were going so well...
Peter 1950 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/29/05
Posts: 51
Loc: Atlanta
Danny,

Yes, that does help. I'm trying to find answers, and I think I may have been too focused on black and white, gay or straight. I know that I love my wife; I love living with her; I'm emotionally connected to her; and I want to stay with her. Here's the catch. Having repressed another side of me for years, I want to integrate it with the rest of me, not discard it. I don't want to leave her and lead a "gay" life. But I don't want to repress that side of me anymore.

It is complicated and it is all about the technicolor rainbow that you describe. Thanks for the "rant". I think I needed it too.

Peter


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#39400 - 01/26/06 03:32 AM Re: and just when things were going so well...
Hauser Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 2962
Loc: United States
Peter. I've been sexually confused since the age of 12. I finally decided to try a gay relationship. I wansn't really impressed. At least I tried, but my only point is that just because you might always be wondering if it might be more satisfying or fulfilling, it might also not be for you either.

If you love many things about your wife, and are only considering leaving her because you life MIGHT be better, do you think that's really rational? You must also consider the possibility that you might find the gay lifestyle empty and simply not for you like I did.


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#39401 - 01/26/06 03:01 PM Re: and just when things were going so well...
Splitting Offline
Member

Registered: 12/26/04
Posts: 62
My "rant" was not to encourage or discourage the pursuit of one life style over the other. I look it as welcoming that part of you as a true part of you. I had to come to grips that my first three know sexuasl partners were men. Starting very young and into my teenage years. There is a certain amount of programming associated with those relationships. There is nothing that can be done about that.

Which ever direction you choose, please remember that the other lifestyle is still a part of you that needs to be cherished. Does that mean that I, as a heterosexual male should have homosexual affairs...no! What is does mean is that by facing, admitting, and embracing the various parts of me and letting all those parts know that I, the now grown up Danny, is driving the bus, they can all join in and start contributing to the joy of my current life instead of posing a constant barrage of "What ifs".

What if I left my wife?
What if I have an affair (either homo or hetero sexual)?
What if I were only more attractive?
What if I were only more desirable?

What if...you fill in the blank.

You say you know you love your wife. if this is true, cherish the fact that you know this. Love what is known and answer the "What If" question with an answer like,"Thanks for your input and I understand why that lifestyle is important to you...but I am driving the bus now and I like this one. Now let's learn how to work togther". It is amazing, they will actually listen sometimes.

This session is worth just what you paid for it...but again, thanks for letting me rant.
Danny


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#39402 - 01/26/06 03:05 PM Re: and just when things were going so well...
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Peter and Hauser,

I don't have an answer for this, but here's how I see the problem.

When a boy is growing up that's the time he learns about boundaries, how to relate to people socially, and finally how to relate to others sexually. It happens gradually, and while yeah, sure, growing up is always a drama, I think it is still a fact that what a kid needs is a stable safe and loving environment that allows him to lay down a solid foundation - brick by brick, as it were.

But if the boy is abused, whatever foundation he has is wrecked and efforts to continue building will be hijacked. That wreckage doesn't disappear just because he becomes 18 or 21 and is now an "adult" (another label). He will carry all the crap from abuse into his adulthood and it will affect how he views himself, his sexuality, and sex itself. No wonder we feel so screwed up.

So this brings me back to the questions that you raise at the end of your post above, Hauser. I think a lot of the decision-making in this area is emotional rather than rational, but okay, I see what you mean and I agree. There is a lot of tough thinking to do here, and as I said above, I would be wary of simplistic labels and easy solutions.

What hangs over all this is a hard fact: deciding things like our sexuality and where our future happiness in this area lies requires that we feel secure and safe about who we are and what we need and want out of life. Survivors have a lot of rebuilding and hard work to do before they can say they really are in that secure and safe place that will allow them to make a solid and lasting decision.

Much love,
Larry

PS to Andrew: I wish the "Labels are for soup cans" saying were mine! It's so true!!! But it was Dewey2k who gave us that one.

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#39403 - 01/27/06 03:14 PM Re: and just when things were going so well...
Peter 1950 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/29/05
Posts: 51
Loc: Atlanta
Hauser, Splitting and Larry,

Thanks, guys. You've all given me a lot to think about. I do value a great deal of my current life, and I expect to stay in my marriage. I am trying to find ways to integrate the stuff that I now understand to be true, rather than to deny it. Had a great conversation with a friend this week. He's a gay may in a stable relationship. We've known each other for about 20 years, and spent a lot of time together (because of work...no sexual relationship) until my job changed 15 years ago. We've stayed in touch, but only infrequently. I decided to reach out to him this week, and it was a very rewarding conversation. Like people here, if you chose wisely, you can find people who are receptive, who care, and who will offer love and support. A remarkable experience.

I'm looking forward to Monday's therapy with my wife. I'm going to bring up her "send it away" remark to see what our T thinks about that. (Naturally, she'll reply by asking what I think! I know that's right, but it is annoying, isn't it?) Any way, since she's said that she wants me to get over all this and to take anything having to do with same sex attraction and "send it away" I figured I wouldn't even bring it up this weekend.

I wonder if she'll ask about a movie. There's only one out right now that I'm particularly interested to see, but I'm sure she's not going to want to see it.

Anyway, thanks for everything. Your wisdom, your insight and your support is much appreciated, guys.

Take care,

Peter


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