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#392262 - 04/05/12 08:26 AM Shocked by the Consequences
Gretta Offline


Registered: 09/17/11
Posts: 239
I am totally amazed. My husband and I had an agreement that he would not drink. He could have a glass a wine with dinner when with me but other than that NO DRINKING! In the past there was lot of bad behavior, lies, emotional break downs & infidelity. It's a reasonable request and he agreed.

He came home completely drunk Tuesday night (yes Tuesday night) and he lied about where he was. The deal was he had to move out. He seems to be shocked and heart broken by the consequences. We had discussed this in advance and he was totally aware.

WHY?

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#392280 - 04/05/12 10:10 AM Re: Shocked by the Consequences [Re: Gretta]
phoenix321 Offline


Registered: 09/26/11
Posts: 912
Loc: USA, FL
Originally Posted By: Gretta
I am totally amazed. My husband and I had an agreement that he would not drink. He could have a glass a wine with dinner when with me but other than that NO DRINKING! In the past there was lot of bad behavior, lies, emotional break downs & infidelity. It's a reasonable request and he agreed.

He came home completely drunk Tuesday night (yes Tuesday night) and he lied about where he was. The deal was he had to move out. He seems to be shocked and heart broken by the consequences. We had discussed this in advance and he was totally aware.

WHY?


He didn't reject you just rejected the goodness he believes he doesn't deserve and isn't worthy of receiving. That sucks but is what it is. If he doesn't believe he's worth anything, he can't accept anything worthwhile. I'm sorry. Make sense?
_________________________
Phoenix

A guy opens the front door and sees a snail on his doorstep. He picks up the snail and throws it across the street in a neighbor's yard. A year later, the guy opens the front door and the same snail is on his doorstep. The snail says, "What the f*ck was that about?"

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#392303 - 04/05/12 01:13 PM Re: Shocked by the Consequences [Re: phoenix321]
Dar Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/15/11
Posts: 170
Loc: Missouri
I am very sorry to her about this Gretta. BUT....

My husband and I had an agreement that he would not drink.

But he was drinking and you were allowing it Gretta, Sorry, but once a drinker always a drinker, once a smoker always a smoker.
If you let a person that was smoker have one smoke a day to Appease them, that person has never stopped smoking and will find ways to get more when you are not around. one cig leads to two, then four, then eight, so on and so on.
Drinking is no differant, A Person That Was A Drinker, will always be a drinker and will find ways to drink even more if allowed to have that first drink again.
I am sorry Gretta (You know I like you) But this is as much your fault as his for allowing him to even have one drink.

This of course is just my opinion but......A person is either a drinker or they not. Drinkers cant tempt fate. They will almost always fail on their own. Thats why AA is so popular with recovering drinkers.

To make things worse, he is also trying to heal from CSA and you know as well as others how we victims of CSA can and will try to numb our selfs. Phoenix is right, your husband is confused and isn't thinking as he should be.
I am sure that if my wife allowed me to have a glass of wine with her that it would be the start of the ending for me/us again. The drink was my drug of choice and it may be your husbands too. Why would anyone tempt going back there again?

You have both started this recovery, dont let it end because of a problem that you both allowed to happen.

please dont hate me for saying these things to you. Just trying to be real.

Blessings
_________________________
All I ever wanted was a hug.

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#392304 - 04/05/12 01:15 PM Re: Shocked by the Consequences [Re: phoenix321]
Gretta Offline


Registered: 09/17/11
Posts: 239
That is a piece of it, from the abuse perspective he has been doing very well and has alot to be proud of. He has come a long way.

He is also by nature a very spoiled person. That's crazy to say about a person who was abused by his father but it was so messed up in his family. On the other side he was the only boy with three older sister, he was "The King"! They called him that and his sisters had to wait on him hand and foot. There were no consequences in normal sense. His mother always made excuses for his bad behavior, it was someone elses fault. You know the type.

I feel bad for him. But as someone very smart and special said to me I am entitled to feel safe in my own life and when he drinks I do not feel safe.

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#392308 - 04/05/12 01:23 PM Re: Shocked by the Consequences [Re: Gretta]
Country Offline


Registered: 02/29/12
Posts: 642
Loc: Alabama
As a survivor and former alcoholic I can say that these two are a bad combination. Thru my faith and support I was able to put the bottle down. Best of luck to you
_________________________
Ephesians 6:13

Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand.

Ephesians 5:25

Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her

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#392322 - 04/05/12 03:23 PM Re: Shocked by the Consequences [Re: Gretta]
herowannabe Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/01/11
Posts: 386
Loc: USA
Quote:
But this is as much your fault as his for allowing him to even have one drink


F*** THAT!

Anyone who has ANY kind of addiction born by ANY reason (CSA or not) is solely responsible for his/her own addiction and recovery!!!!!!!!!! A supporter should not be used as an addict's own brain. Would a supporter of a survivor who suffers from sexual addiction be at fault for allowing a woman wearing short shorts into their home, thus "causing" the addict to act out?

If survivors have a good support person in a wife, they should double down on their recovery efforts if only to keep that source of support. Ideally, they should double down on their recovery efforts in order to FINALLY be a source of support for the supporter who has N-O-O-N-E! Those who've been abused by the survivor's acting out are not SUPER HUMAN! We are hanging on by a thread while the survivor works his own recovery- or not. Our flippin' needs and our gaping wounds go unattended as we hold you up. And now we are to accept blame when you choose to not work on your own recovery and screw up, which further destroys our souls???

If that's the way it is, I am OUT! Please advise!

Gretta- God's richest blessings on you, hon. Whatever you decide to do is fully supported by me. YOU are not to blame for HIS choices. Please do not put any more angst onto your heart. Save yourself in any way you can. If your survivor wants to save himself, he will have to save himself.

What more can a human being do for another that you've not already done???

P.S. "allowing him"??? Allowing??? I'm thinking wives prefer to be their husband's wife, not their mother. If we'd have wanted to be moms, we'd have adopted you- not married you.




Edited by herowannabe (04/05/12 03:52 PM)
Edit Reason: Had to spit out a PS that was caught in my throat
_________________________


For I know the plans I have made for you. Plans to give you a future and a hope. Jeremiah 29:11


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#392327 - 04/05/12 04:03 PM Re: Shocked by the Consequences [Re: Gretta]
herowannabe Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/01/11
Posts: 386
Loc: USA
Quote:
He didn't reject you just rejected the goodness he believes he doesn't deserve and isn't worthy of receiving


When does a survivor come to realize that it's not all about what HE deserves, but begins to consider what someone else (his wife) deserves? This confuses me to no end, and frustrates me to the moon and back. I'm sure it's fundamental to those who know more than I, so maybe someone will enlighten me?

If a survivor doesn't feel he deserves the good wife and home, why doesn't he just leave??? Why does he choose to stay and take advantage of the good while continuing to feed his addiction/compulsion/self-destruction? I can't think of one single venue of acting out that doesn't destroy the supporter-wife. If a survivor is so bent on how "unworthy" he is, why does he feel worthy enough to take down his supporter and family with him? When does responsibility to another person's well-being come in? How does a survivor get there? What does a supporter do in the meantime?

Please help me understand this!

Thank you-
herowearybe
_________________________


For I know the plans I have made for you. Plans to give you a future and a hope. Jeremiah 29:11


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#392332 - 04/05/12 04:34 PM Re: Shocked by the Consequences [Re: herowannabe]
mmfan Offline


Registered: 09/25/11
Posts: 114
My survivor was shocked by the consequences also. The first time I expressed a boundary AND followed through on it, he kicked up a fuss so fierce it was like I had crushed his very soul. It reminded me of a young child being told "no" for the very first time.

I guess it makes sense, because if a young child was harmed regardless of how he behaved, he learns that consequences aren't linked to behavior.

These are painful but essential lessons for him to learn. You won't do him any favors by failing to enforce the consequences. And you must be true to yourself and enforce your own boundaries for your own health and well-being, independent of whatever outcome it has for him. You are doing the right thing. Hopefully it will be a wake up call for him, but most importantly you are honoring you.

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#392333 - 04/05/12 04:35 PM Re: Shocked by the Consequences [Re: herowannabe]
Obi Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 1314
Loc: kansas
scientific studies have shown that a lot of males that have been sexually abused, during their childhood, have their thought patterns, relationship skills, etc. skewed to where they do not function the same way as with someone who hasn't been sexually abused.

quite often, many of us csa male survivors, thought patterns, relationship skills, and so on have, in a sense, been stunted to the point of the age they were at when they were abused.

for instance, i know that for myself, a lot of my thoughts, reactions were that of a 7 year old male child. the age that i was abused. one are in particular, that i'm currently working on, is the area of a healthy sex life. right now i'm freaked out by it. my reaction to it is that of the 7 year old that i was.

example of this reaction. a few years ago i took a trip, with my then gf, to reno to bowl in the national tournament. i thought i had my own room and she was going to stay with her folks in their room. well, i found out after we got there that she was going to stay in my room. well, this made me extremely uncomfortable, but i pushed my way through it...

well, later that first day, while we were there in the room, we got to having a discussion that turned into a small argument. i later realized that a lot of that arguement was issues i was having. anyway, i was looking out the window and she came over, grabbed my face and kissed me. FREAKED ME OUT!!! i ran over to the door to the room and coward in the corner... i was no longer that adult male when that happened... i was that SCARED 7 year old boy...

after getting into therapy i fully understood that situation for what it was and how i was nowhere ready for a relationship... even though i tried for years... i tried thinking that if i had a gf, that i would eventually marry, all my issues would go away... yeah, i know STUPID.... however, i didn't realize at that time either that it was csa related stuff either.. i thought it was just me...

yes, i went through a LOT of thinking i don't deserve anything good in my life... nothing.. no matter any of the good things that did happen, i didn't feel i deserved it... being abused made me feel dirty, filthy, repugnant, unwanted, alone, perverted lump of crap!

it used to bug the hell out of my best friend how i would question his loyalty all the time... he would tell me all the time how much he cared about me, how much i meant to him, how much of a big heart i have, how i was a little brother to him... however, i would be in such a depression that i couldn't see it, even though he would tell me these things for several years.. i would question it... question him... "why do you hang out with me?", " why do you even bother with me?", "why do you even want to be a brother to me, i'm just worthless and don't deserve it."....

he eventually told me that it bothered him a lot but he knew in his heart that there was something that was holding me back from seeing the true person that i was, that he saw in me... so, he did his best to hang in there and learned that whenever i would question those things to keep assuring me and that it really wasn't him that was having the issue, it was me.....

after being in therapy, i realized that i did that to him... i felt incredible guilt for it... i told him how sorry i was for putting him through that and i would do my best to not question him again in that manner... he accepted my apology and forgave me...

with all of this to say.. all of those reactions i had/have were mostly based on the thought process of a 7 year old... now, if you think about it... if you had a 7 year old boy would you expect him to be able to think, behave and be able to handle more mature adult situations? no, you wouldn't..... he would think like a little boy....

well, considering that your husbands are not physically little boys anymore, mentally they could very well be... you made mention that you don't want to be motherly... well, you would be correct, but in a boys mind, that's about all they understand...

yes, there is hope... yes, it takes time... us survivors need time to work though those issues and time to develop proper, healthy, adult, thought and relationship skills...
_________________________
live another day. climb a little higher.

my story

my vlog

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#392335 - 04/05/12 04:40 PM Re: Shocked by the Consequences [Re: mmfan]
Avery46 Offline


Registered: 09/23/10
Posts: 1243
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: mmfan
My survivor was shocked by the consequences also. The first time I expressed a boundary AND followed through on it, he kicked up a fuss so fierce it was like I had crushed his very soul. It reminded me of a young child being told "no" for the very first time.

I guess it makes sense, because if a young child was harmed regardless of how he behaved, he learns that consequences aren't linked to behavior.

These are painful but essential lessons for him to learn. You won't do him any favors by failing to enforce the consequences. And you must be true to yourself and enforce your own boundaries for your own health and well-being, independent of whatever outcome it has for him. You are doing the right thing. Hopefully it will be a wake up call for him, but most importantly you are honoring you.


mmfan,

You speak volumes of truth. I say Amen and AMen!!!!

Peace,
Avery
_________________________
aka DJsport

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#392340 - 04/05/12 05:54 PM Re: Shocked by the Consequences [Re: Gretta]
phoenix321 Offline


Registered: 09/26/11
Posts: 912
Loc: USA, FL
Originally Posted By: Gretta
That is a piece of it, from the abuse perspective he has been doing very well and has alot to be proud of. He has come a long way.

He is also by nature a very spoiled person. That's crazy to say about a person who was abused by his father but it was so messed up in his family. On the other side he was the only boy with three older sister, he was "The King"! They called him that and his sisters had to wait on him hand and foot. There were no consequences in normal sense. His mother always made excuses for his bad behavior, it was someone elses fault. You know the type.

I feel bad for him. But as someone very smart and special said to me I am entitled to feel safe in my own life and when he drinks I do not feel safe.



I'm sorry about it, Gretta. Sounds like he was a spoiled brat who learned women are just there to serve him. That's messed up. ;( Drunks are hell to live with. He may not have hit rock bottom yet. Who knows, he might come back to you once he's better after hitting rock bottom. You can always hope.


Edited by phoenix321 (04/05/12 05:56 PM)
_________________________
Phoenix

A guy opens the front door and sees a snail on his doorstep. He picks up the snail and throws it across the street in a neighbor's yard. A year later, the guy opens the front door and the same snail is on his doorstep. The snail says, "What the f*ck was that about?"

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#392347 - 04/05/12 07:29 PM Re: Shocked by the Consequences [Re: Avery46]
Jim1104 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/16/11
Posts: 407
Loc: Louisiana, USA
I am sorry Gretta. Truth is, though, that he is, in some ways, still a little child. When he was abused, part of him was frozen in little child mode. Then, when he drank, part of him got stuck again. You did the right thing, but never tell my wife that.

Ok, she already knows. I am certain that she would kick me out if I started the cyber and webcam stuff, as well she should. If I started drinking again, she should also, even though there is no explicit agreement on that. The fact is, you have kids and they deserve to feel safe too. Can't be safe while you husband is drinking and drunk.

Should you guys get back together, this time, tell him NO alcohol, unless it's a sip during comunion. I can do that. If I drank a glas of wine, I would be dead. Perhaps literally. An alcoholic can not have even one drink. Even if it seems like he's ok, that one drink will lead back to where you are now.

Again, I am sorry.
_________________________
Jim
Male/USA

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#392377 - 04/05/12 10:57 PM Re: Shocked by the Consequences [Re: herowannabe]
photoangela75 Offline


Registered: 04/04/12
Posts: 5
Amen Herowannabe!!!!


Edited by photoangela75 (04/05/12 10:57 PM)

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#392391 - 04/05/12 11:52 PM Re: Shocked by the Consequences [Re: herowannabe]
jls Offline


Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 1142
A someone who went through the wringer prior to getting sober, I can say that no one could stop my drinking but me. My ex left me because of my drinking, which in retrospect I am actually thankful to her for since when she did it made the problem mine and no one else's, which created a motivation in me to change for my own sake and in tandem with working hard on my recovery from csa is why I'm sober today. The best thing you can do for your husband is what you are doing for yourself ~ setting healthy boundaries I mean. I'm not saying leave him or giving any other such brash advice. Rather, just do what you need to do to stay healthy and strong. Its amazing how much that rubs off on everyone around us:)
_________________________
Love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we値l change the world.


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#392450 - 04/06/12 06:10 AM Re: Shocked by the Consequences [Re: Gretta]
whome Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/07/11
Posts: 1734
Loc: Johannesburg South Africa
Hi Gretta

Sorry that this is happening.

Dar has a point here, you allowed him to have a glass of wine??? He is an Alcoholic, and should NOT drink at all, and visits to the local chapter of AA should be part of the weekly ritual. But then again the others speak volumes of truth. HE IS RESPONSIBLE FOR HIS OWN HEALING. If you pack him off to an AA meeting, he is doing it because of you and NOT for himself.
I have often turned people away from our room when they tell me that their wife or GF told them they had to come.
My words to them are, WHEN YOU REALIZE THAT YOU ARE POWERLESS OVER ALCOHOL, AND YOUR LIFE IS UNMANAGEABLE, come back, our doors are always open.

Stick to your guns, I might sound harsh and It might be hard for other survivors to swallow but You have to be tough.

My ideas on this are if you choose to heal as a survivor then DO IT. Respect the rules and understand the pain that you have caused the family (through no fault of our own) but accept the reality, deal with it and move on.

Sometimes it is easier to "fall" than for the survivors to face reality, and yes sometimes when we are triggered and the pain is so immense a drink might seem like the answer, its not, and he will never learn this if you don't push through with the consequences.

Stick to the rules, but most of all look after yourself, never neglect the impact that this has on you and the children.
Watch out for those Co Dependent tendencies and make sure that you are here because you love yourself, that you are doing this for YOU, and not that you are doing this because it makes you feel better that you are helping him.
At the end of the day if things go wrong (and I pray they don't) You will need to be able to exist on your own and know that you are capable of facing life alone as a confident whole person, not a broken bitter wreck because you GAVE HIM everything.

Stay strong and heal well
Martin
_________________________
Matrix Men South Africa
Survivors Supporting Each other
Matrix Men Blog

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#392492 - 04/06/12 01:04 PM Re: Shocked by the Consequences [Re: whome]
jls Offline


Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 1142
Agreed when you say that one glass of wine is too many. Once someone crosses the line into alcoholism with their drinking the only way to recover is thru complete and total abstinence. Some may disagree with the rigidity of my thinking concerning this but I am not simply speaking from my own experience. I have seen too many people I know personally fail to understand this and suffer far worse consequences that being kicked out of the house. Fact is some people's bottom when it comes to addiction is to end up under the ground, which I have witnessed as well.

I look at alcoholism like having an allergy or a disease like diabetes. One may never be cured of the condition yet recovery is possible by way of abstaining from the substance that triggers a negative reaction. For example, I don稚 eat shell fish or else I値l break out in hives and my throat will close. My alcoholism is no different, and like with shell fish failure to pay attention to my condition by not taking certain precautions will lead to disastrous consequences. Just my thoughts.

_________________________
Love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we値l change the world.


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#392493 - 04/06/12 01:06 PM Re: Shocked by the Consequences [Re: whome]
Gretta Offline


Registered: 09/17/11
Posts: 239
Thank you everyone and I appreciate your input.

This was my perspective on the whole thing...

I believe my husband has a problem with alcohol but until CSA came to light he was a perfectly good social drinker. There were times over our past 15 years that I was not proud of his behavior but he didn't drink every day, miss work or even get drunk on a regular basis. He doesn't need alcohol to get through each and every day. Gave it up for lent 4 years ago.

So to allow him a glass of wine at dinner seemed fine. In hind sight esposa is right.

As memories would hit him that's when he would secretly drink. Tuesday night was because he was mad at me. You are 100% correct in some ways he is alittle boy and that was his way of acting out. He's mad that I am going on a very special trip with a girl friend of mine. I was invited to a once in a lifetime trip basically all expenses paid and he's jealous. It's frustrating because when he went to the superbowl I was so happy for him. I would have liked the same response.

He agreed last night that he is surprised by the consequences because as a child he didn't have them. Never felt loved because no one loved him enough to make him accountable. I think he is going to rise to the occasion.

I am reading Codependent No more. So far I identify way to well.

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#392494 - 04/06/12 01:12 PM Re: Shocked by the Consequences [Re: Gretta]
jls Offline


Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 1142
I can relate to what you say about secret drinking to cope with the csa. That fit me perfectly near the end of my drinking, when I was all consumed with what happened to me as a boy and could only deal with the feelings by numbing them with alcohol. I had always drank and perhaps I had become an alcoholic years before but the drinking in isolation and the increase in my consumption definitely progressed the longer I left the issues surrounding my sexual abuse unresolved. All of that said, I don't live in regret about my past drinking. I drank for good reasons, namely to deal with feelings about the abuse, but in the end I was left with two problems rather than just one so I had to find new ways of dealing with an old problem, if this makes any sense. The upside is that when I got sober and started working on my csa issues in earnest the desire to drink declined rapidly. It was like I just didn稚 need to anymore.
_________________________
Love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we値l change the world.


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#392501 - 04/06/12 03:19 PM Re: Shocked by the Consequences [Re: jls]
Gretta Offline


Registered: 09/17/11
Posts: 239
Originally Posted By: jls
The upside is that when I got sober and started working on my csa issues in earnest the desire to drink declined rapidly. It was like I just didn稚 need to anymore.


That gives me hope! Thanks

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#392584 - 04/07/12 12:49 AM Re: Shocked by the Consequences [Re: Gretta]
jls Offline


Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 1142
I'm glad that it does:)
_________________________
Love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we値l change the world.


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#392612 - 04/07/12 06:08 AM Re: Shocked by the Consequences [Re: jls]
whome Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/07/11
Posts: 1734
Loc: Johannesburg South Africa
Gretta

Just to give you more hope, I to lost all desire to drink when I sorted out my CSA issues, as well as my porn addiction the desire for online chat sites and most of my crappy behaviour.

The important part here is that he WORK on his issues. Honesty and openness are the key ingredients here, honesty with self and with partners.

I hope that your H is doing this.
And don't be afraid of the Co-Dependency book, you can use it to develop into a self loving and self confident person, this in turn will shock the crap out of him and motivate him to get better. If he cant manipulate you, the game is over.

Let us know how it goes.

Heal well
Martin
_________________________
Matrix Men South Africa
Survivors Supporting Each other
Matrix Men Blog

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#392639 - 04/07/12 11:31 AM Re: Shocked by the Consequences [Re: whome]
Gretta Offline


Registered: 09/17/11
Posts: 239
Originally Posted By: whome
game is over


Well said. The best part is he has the opportunity to be proud of himself. No false compliments. When I say I am proud he knows it's real. His self worth and esteem might actually be real. We'll all benefit from that.

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#392844 - 04/09/12 08:54 AM Re: Shocked by the Consequences [Re: Gretta]
JustScott Offline
Greeter Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 2574
If you decide to extend Grace to your husband, I would set a new rule of "NO ALCOHOL". Period.

It's not about how much you drink, it's about WHY you drink. For me, I rarely drink... unless I'm struggling and dealing with lots of thoughts, feelings, and anxiety. Then I'll drink more than I should.

Am I an alcoholic? No, BUT my motivation for drinking (and smoking cigars "on occasion") is all about self-medicating.

By doing that, it means I'm avoiding dealing with what I'm experiencing, which means I'm not learning to recognize my own feelings and triggers and not learning how to handle them as an adult should.

So my advice, if you extend grace, is to also up the ante.

Self-Medicating will keep him from healing. If he wants to heal, it's gotta go away.

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#392851 - 04/09/12 10:16 AM Re: Shocked by the Consequences [Re: Avery46]
lucylives Offline


Registered: 04/07/11
Posts: 359
I am sorry, Dar, I think you are awesome but you are so off base for blaming Gretta for her LETTING him drink when with her. We are not their mothers. We do not let them do anything. They make their own choices.

My husband is an alcoholic, too. He CANNOT drink a drop. He will go right back to 20 beers a day. I can't stop him from drinking but he knows that as much as I love him, I love myself more and cannot go back to that life. Everyday is a day he has to make that choice.

there have been times I have been tempted to say maybe you can just have a beer or two on special occasions because I can't stand his unhappiness in those situations when he wants a drink but can't but I won't say it to him. I know he will be right back to where he was but it is HIS CHOICE not mine. I am not his mother and i refuse to be. Ihave to protect myself and my kids. I pray he never drinks again but if he does, it is his problem not mine. Everybody is responsible for their own choices!!

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#392892 - 04/09/12 07:43 PM Re: Shocked by the Consequences [Re: lucylives]
Dar Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/15/11
Posts: 170
Loc: Missouri
Well put Ms Lucy, thank you for clearing that up for me.
Boundaries were set and he broke them, not Gretta.

The way I figure it, if Gretta's husband didnt like the old boundaries and broke them he sure isnt going like the news ones he has to set for himself.

Thanks again
_________________________
All I ever wanted was a hug.

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