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#39124 - 06/10/03 11:43 AM rambling
fragile37 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 06/10/03
Posts: 7
Loc: WI.USA
how do you keep going after losing your dad who abused me from 5 until 15. Does anyone know why it became a need until I was struck by lightning and I came to my senses of what I become? To wake up and see him in my face when I prayed for God to take me home...only he got to go first. I love my dad. To be born on Father's Day and to be his boy forever. I need to go back in therapy or I may be calling on God again. Why did you Lord let me live when I was knocking on your door for peace. There is never peace after what I been through. No peace when what has occured in our lives effects us forever. As I developed as a child from a young age it seemed so right. The feeling of hatred is beneath me even forgivness. Whats to forgive when I only honored my dad's wishes. Dad left me when I could not help and worst of all to say it's alright dad. He died March 16 in 2001 and my peace is the Lord forgave him as in John 3:16. How else can you make sense of his passing. To me God judged him in the end by the cancer. It was where no male wants it. Ironic really ...sad but true. I dunno if anyone here can relate. It seems most have had issues later in life and it was not a learned thing that developed for years. I realize it was wrong but it took to long. Im still alive and kicking but things change too quickly. Well off to therapy...bye 4 now.


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#39125 - 06/10/03 12:19 PM Re: rambling
Mike Church Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 01/23/03
Posts: 3439
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Fragile:

I know that you honour your father.

But look at it in another way. He took advantage of a child who trusted totally. I mean you were his little boy. Is this normal for a loving father? Ask yourself?

Yes you miss him. I am 62 and lost my father in 2000 he was 82. He used to beat the living shit out of me and that is why I ran away from home so many times. Funny thing tho he was my father. And deep down I loved him although I did not respect or like him. I forgave him before he died and his passing has left a hole in my life. But that happens to us all unless we are unlucky enough to bury our children.

Your last words give me hope for you. Off to therapy.

Remember that whatever happened it was never is not and never will be your fault.

Peace my brother Wolf
AAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWHHHHHHHHOOOOOOOOOO

_________________________
Mikey

IT REALLY IS OK TO STUMBLE. NONE OF US ARE PERFECT.

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#39126 - 06/10/03 12:43 PM Re: rambling
MDD Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 06/05/03
Posts: 12
Loc: somewheres on this thing calle...
Kinda weird.

My father is alive, if what he has for a life you can call living. I hate what he did, I hate how he treated me and I hate how he allowed my brother to treat me as he did.
But somewheres in the back of my head there is a different picture. I remember he was a cool guy every now and then, when I was a little kid. When I was 5 or so he once took me to the port and showed me what he did. That was great! I think I could have lived with just the SA, but the way he treated me was just too much.
But Mike is right. Your father, Mikes father and mine and all fathers like ours had no right not to love us and no right to do what they did.

I think I will throw a party when he dies. Perhaps it sounds cruel, but I feel it will be a good way to say my goodbyes. Whatever he did that was remotely father-like, it is so offset by what he did otherwise, its a definate no-go all around.
Dont let the emotions of a kid cloud over reality.
He may have been your dad, but what he did was wrong and he doesnt deserve your love. Or forgiveness. Or understanding.

hope my anger doesnt cloud my reaction,

Tom

_________________________
Something old, something new, something borrowed, something blue

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#39127 - 06/10/03 01:09 PM Re: rambling
outis Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/27/03
Posts: 2258
Loc: Maryland USA
Fragile,

It can be very hard to live with both feelings, love and hate, for the same person. It's perfectly OK to feel love for your Dad, despite the things that he did to you. It's certainly ok to feel hatred for those things, and for how he did them to you.

That's part of the confusion when the abuser is someone close. Both feelings can be so intense, and they seem to wage war inside us. But they're feelings; they don't have to make sense or agree with one another. It's not a math proof or computer program, it's human emotion.

If you have any happy memories of time with your Dad, treasure them. You will have to work on the painful memories, with your therapist, partner, close friend(s), and even here with us if you so choose.

Working through the effects of SA is hellishly painful at times. We offer our experience, strength, and hope to help you with that work.

A brother trying to heal,

Joe

_________________________
"Telemachos, your guest is no discredit to you. I wasted no time in stringing the bow, and I did not miss the mark. My strength is yet unbroken…"—The Odyssey, translated by W.H.D. Rouse

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#39128 - 06/10/03 01:29 PM Re: rambling
jmac Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/21/03
Posts: 3
fragile,

I have visted this site many times but as yet never posted. I was abused by my father from age 10 and it lasted into my 20's. I would just freeze and shut down - let him do what he did. My father is still living - having survived cancer 3 times. I recently lost my mother to cancer - a woman who was never sick a day in her life.

I can't tell you how much rage I felt over this. I cursed god for taking her and not my father. He now is looking for support with his grieving. I find it so hard to "there for him". To give him the hug he is looking for to tell him it is all ok.

Yet I feel so much guilt about not being able to be the son he is looking for now. To me it seems a little too late to have that type of relationship, yet it is pulling me apart. I cry to myself when I am alone away from my family and I go from feeling the guilt back to being so angry at him - I just don't know what to feel towards him anymore.

As you said, they are still our fathers. I can remember moments when he was kind and loving (as a father and son should be) and not just looking for more in the way that involved SA.

This may be cruel, but I would have to agree with MDD, for me it may have been better if he had passed. I would hope that it would help with closure for me - that the intense feelings (both hate and guilt) would end. For me, I am at loss on who to deal him while he is living and I am so tired of just having to deal with it and feeling what I feel.

JMAC


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#39129 - 06/10/03 01:50 PM Re: rambling
outis Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/27/03
Posts: 2258
Loc: Maryland USA
JMAC,

I am sorry that you lost your mother, and sorry that SA entered your life. I hope you will be able to find some peace and healing, maybe in part from writing to the other people here.

You have to do what's best for yourself. If you can't be there for your father now, then you can't. It sounds like your mother's passing was recent. What about your own grief over losing her? Is there someone there for you and that pain?

If you've been reading here for awhile, as I did before first posting, then I hope you've seen that this can be a safe place to get some stuff off your chest and out in the open. It's not a substitute for therapy, but I can say that it is a help for me.

Take care of yourself.

Joe

_________________________
"Telemachos, your guest is no discredit to you. I wasted no time in stringing the bow, and I did not miss the mark. My strength is yet unbroken…"—The Odyssey, translated by W.H.D. Rouse

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#39130 - 06/10/03 04:58 PM Re: rambling
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Fragile & Jmac
what an entrance for a couple of new guys......

I've been to my group therapy today and there's only one guy there who was abused by his father, the rest of us it was non family.
And M told us things today that hammered home to me just how difficult it is to figure out that "it was my dad who did it !"
I barely understand what it must feel like, we have a strong bond with our dad's.

But you're not alone unfortunately, there's many guys here in the same position. And they're moving on towards recovery, and I know they'll share their support and help with you both.

Be strong, and stick around - this IS the place to be.

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#39131 - 06/10/03 07:56 PM Re: rambling
Wuamei Offline
Member

Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 2700
Loc: The left turn I should have ta...
Quote:
But you're not alone unfortunately, there's many guys here in the same position. And they're moving on towards recovery, and I know they'll share their support and help with you both.
Right, I'm one of those guys. Here's some recent stuff I wrote about my father:

http://www.malesurvivor.org/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=001911#000003

http://www.malesurvivor.org/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=001962#000001

Fragile, Tom, JMAC, I empathize & hurt with you guys. Its damned hard being betrayed by the man we should have been able to be closest to & trust the most. Father-son incest is a horror like all sexual abuse is a horror and a nightmare.

Talking & listening here can help us to wake up out of the darkness and walk in the light of our dreams as we learn and grow together. There are good articles on this site that can be of help to you. Here are a few books on Father-Son Incest (you can get them thru the MS bookstore):

In My Father's Arms by Walter de Milly (an MS member)

Abused Boys by Mic Hunter (also an MS member)

Betrayed as Boys by Richard Gartner (MS President)

Victims No Longer and Leaping Upon the Mountains by Mike Lew (he'll be doing a day long workshop at the MS conference in September)

If you need to talk we're here. I'm here.

Victor

_________________________
"I can't stand pain. It hurts me."
--Daffy Duck

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#39132 - 06/11/03 06:23 AM Re: rambling
michael Joseph Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/11/01
Posts: 2719
Loc: Virginia
Hey, I hurt like hell. You are going thru a great deal too. I know how it sucks, and being here has helped me. I still have things to learn.
I still am very confused about who I am and my sexuality. I know what all of my relatives and friends did was wrong, and it destroyed part of who I am. It is the part which I have kept safe that keeps seeking help. I search for my truth, and pray someday that I will find it. I will give you a great big hug and a smile, giving you hope man. I need those things too, any man from this place who sets their feet near my town better let me know they are on thier way. I expect some contact after all this shit.

That is why conferences and retreats help me. I love the friends I meet here they understand who I am better than I do. Come back and discover yourself through our eyes and ears. I am so glad you are here. I tried to private message you a welcome, but you did not have it turned on. That is a good way to talk, but if not then here I am.

I wish you a great rest of the week. Hope therapy went well!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Michael from Michigan!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

_________________________
Standing together is so much better than hiding in the dark.
***I am a three time WoR Retreat Alumni***
The Round Table, Men's CSA Group, Monday 7:30pm CST, MaleSurvivor Chat

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#39133 - 06/11/03 06:30 AM Re: rambling
michael Joseph Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/11/01
Posts: 2719
Loc: Virginia
Hey I turn 41 in 7 days!

Born 6-19-62

2 months early

low birth weight 1lb 7oz

i have gain some since then

I love you guys

_________________________
Standing together is so much better than hiding in the dark.
***I am a three time WoR Retreat Alumni***
The Round Table, Men's CSA Group, Monday 7:30pm CST, MaleSurvivor Chat

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#39134 - 06/11/03 06:43 AM Re: rambling
ernie Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/26/02
Posts: 121
Loc: Portland, Maine
Though my dad was not my sexual abuser, he was a pro at other abuse namely verbal and some psyical. I can remember one time when he said he loved me that was on a visit the last time I saw him alive. Seemed like I could never quite measure up to what he expected. I wanted to learn to play football very badly but I was sure that my body looked different than everyone elses because of the SA from his brother. So, I chose instead to join "the girlie band" as he called it. I excelled in chorus and played a fair trumpet. I enjoyed it and didn't have to shower after a concert so everyone would see I was different. When I went on to college to be the first in my family to graduate, he didn't come to my graduation, I could not forgive him for this. It hurt badly. Now at age 58, I have visited his grave, in my mind and in my heart I have spoken out, told him how his brother abused me, how my SA effected my entire life and that of my family. I do know one thing for sure. The example he set did not apply to my raising my own family, I took the time, I encouraged their growth and have 3 of the best kids anyone could ask for. I can look at it now as his loss, I was there just needed a bit of his time and love and the freedom of telling him what his f****** brother and others did to me without fear of being pushed aside.
Bob

_________________________
The roads of life are full of stones but, they can be moved take my hand we will help each other.

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#39135 - 06/11/03 05:51 PM Re: rambling
fragile37 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 06/10/03
Posts: 7
Loc: WI.USA
This may be difficult for some to understand and maybe that me being treated as someone who asked for it by Social Services at age 15 was correct. At 15 came my realization this life with my dad had to end. It was an end to my comfort and my feeling of safe. Be it that yes what occured was wrong or I would not have taken steps to stop the relationship with my dad. It is my morals that got the best of me and my quest to change the situation even if it was not my real desire. To suddenly cut yourself off from something that I felt was special and only dad could make me feel like nothing else mattered. The SA did stop dead in its tracks and yet I denied myself of the last moments in his life to do what was needed most. I wanted to lay by his side and just hug him and kiss him and say its alright dad and I love you. I cannot look at anything anymore in my life as being wrong only that I have been blessed with a friend I recently met. He has been what I have needed for the last 22 years. This is the toughest month of the year for me to endure and always has been but with that came a blessing from God this time. I found someone so special that I can feel what I have not for so so long. PTSD can sometimes sneak in but it only reverts to the finality of it all. To carry him to the grave and for those who knew the real me were few. I needed to scream at all of them so bad and say why could this family allow this to go on and on and on. No one should have these feelings placed upon them by situations throughout their life. Amazing that not a one ever said "im sorry to me" not even my step mother who hated me because I had sex with her husband. I wanted to be buried with him that day and in a way I was that day.


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#39136 - 06/11/03 10:06 PM Re: rambling
Mike Church Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 01/23/03
Posts: 3439
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Fragile:
I did have the opportunity to tell my dad I forgave him and within 9 months he died. I am so thankful I did it. I see your pain Fragile I really do.

There is one thing that struck me as terrific and that was

Quote:
I cannot look at anything anymore in my life as being wrong only that I have been blessed with a friend I recently met. He has been what I have needed for the last 22 years.
That is what everyone needs and I am so glad you have it. Remember this month will pass Fragile so be gentle with yourself. You can talk to your dad you know because a part of him resides within you.
Your brother wolf Mike


AAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWHHHHHHHHHHHHOOOOOOOOOO

_________________________
Mikey

IT REALLY IS OK TO STUMBLE. NONE OF US ARE PERFECT.

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