Newest Members
JohnWC, KKumar, J44, Anura, reynel5
12420 Registered Users
Today's Birthdays
MADcHATTER (54), Ready2MoveOn (44)
Who's Online
3 registered (Rich1967, Shyshark, 1 invisible), 36 Guests and 4 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
12420 Members
74 Forums
63789 Topics
445465 Posts

Max Online: 418 @ 07/02/12 07:29 AM
Twitter
Page 3 of 4 < 1 2 3 4 >
Topic Options
#39062 - 06/16/03 03:52 PM Re: No-one can relate...even here??!
Wuamei Offline
Member

Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 2700
Loc: The left turn I should have ta...
Quote:
I think it is dangerous to generalize because everone's experiences are different.
Just my two cents worth.
Gotta agree with that one.

In the last 13 years or so I've had 4 T's (2 short-term) and 3 Pdocs. All have been good & very
helpful except for my 1st Pdoc who was not really bad just not particularly helpful so I switched to another I had for many years.

Quote:
I really dont think that you can let someone in to help you unless you do cede control to them on an equal basis. Control is something that is given freely and taken back freely. I do it with everyone here when I am looking for help. When I express my inner torments either in post or chat I am letting myself be totally vulnerable.
If I do not do this how can anyone help me. If I cannot move out from behind the mask into the harsh light of realizty and bare my soul so to speak I am not really looking for help only playing at it.
Again, gotta agree, while acknowledging that giving over control is a difficult thing for us to do becuz its so hard to trust. Also I absolutely affirm that we must exercise caution in
exercising trust toward anyone initially. We should be sure not to get ourselves to deep into an uncomfortable relationship, even with a T or any health care worker.

Becuz some of them do abuse their position and some of them are just plain incompetent. And I fell very badly for any of you who have been victimized by these charlatans. However from my experience, observation & discussion with others they are a small minority compared to all the fine T's out there.

As is the case with most of the professionals or groups or people we generalize about sometimes.

Victor

_________________________
"I can't stand pain. It hurts me."
--Daffy Duck

Top
#39063 - 06/16/03 07:12 PM Re: No-one can relate...even here??!
Thad Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/28/01
Posts: 1752
Loc: Oakland, CA
Hey Tom

No one agrees more about the quality of some T's - my experience included a steady succession of Psychiatrists through out my childhood (admittedly in the dark ages of that profession) who were awful - I became positively phobic about their mannerisms and it made it extremely hard to get help later on -

UNTIL - I met a T who was truely experienced in sexual abuse issues - He allowed me to point out every one of his mannerisms and he worked at not doing them (I'm sure he learned a lot from me)- plus he was able to help me recover my SA memories that had been buried for 50 years! He was very skilled - never lead me - and helped me find a long sought after missing piece of the puzzle of my life - I am forever greatful to his skill and professionalism.

Yes, there are some lousy T's but there are some good ones too - and they constitute a safe place for us to work on recovery - I met some incredible ones at the MS retreat - Wow - they were wonderful people from all over the country - I can still see their faces - You guys know who you are!!! - there is hope - even in the face of the incredible damage to our ability to trust.

_________________________
"..this place isn't a discussion forum..it's a portal..." Lupin
"The truth will set you free, but first it will probably piss you off." dwf's AA sponsor.

Top
#39064 - 06/16/03 10:57 PM Re: No-one can relate...even here??!
Ken Singer, LCSW Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/24/00
Posts: 5780
Loc: Lambertville, NJ USA
Hi Tom:
I would really appreciate your feedback on the article, "A Consumer's Guide to Therapist Shopping" which is somewhere on the MS website. You certainly don't have any awe in therapists and I think you could give some feedback that could be useful in updating the article. I think we're on the same page.

Ken


Top
#39065 - 06/17/03 11:31 AM Re: No-one can relate...even here??!
Tom S. Offline
Member

Registered: 04/15/03
Posts: 161
Loc: Nashville, Tn
Talk about generalizations....
It is heart warming to see you fellows on the road to recovery, it must have been hell, but I stand by what I said.
N-E-V-E-R under ANY CIRCUMASTANCE rerlinquish any degree of control regardless of what any egotistical T says.
No one can heal you but you and God, and YOU MUST REMAIN IN CONTROL AT ALL TIMES without deravation if you want to be free.
The whole counseling profession needs the revelation that they are simply facilitators, and not the God like healers with a messiah complex they potray themselves to be, regardless of what level of education or competency they have to offer.
Counselors, MD's or any other provider is nothing more than a person just like the abused victims you are sworn to serve.
I believe you T's need to examine your motives. How many good people are suddenly cured when their benefits run out, or how many are re-victimized by a superior they place trust and control in who offers a sympathy fuck? You can find stats on any aspect of mental health, but that's never tracked.
This issue needs further publication, and you in the profession who run this site need to learn just how dangerous to these individuals this potentially is. There is a very large number of vulnerable folks writing in here and the chance of further damage is far to great to think you deserve a right to control them in any degree.
Just what do you think caused them to be victimized to begin with? Taking control is something most need to learn, and there is no shade of gray happy medium for someone who has been victimized, sexually or other wise.

Mr. Singer: I will try to locate the site you describe, but I would much prefer to e-mail you direct.

quote: "In this time of ecenomic uncertainty, it's easy to see who is dedicated to providing health care, and who is chasing bucks."
quote: "I wonder how many dedicated professionals would get up and go in to work, if they knew they would not get paid that week?"

Tom S.

_________________________
' None are so enslaved as those falsely led to believe they are actually free '

Top
#39066 - 06/17/03 11:47 AM Re: No-one can relate...even here??!
Mike Church Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 01/23/03
Posts: 3439
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Hi Tom:

Gotta take exception again. Are there bad Therapists? Sure there are. Just as there are bad cops, doctors, lawyers, teachers, engineers, pilots, Generals, Politicians, Dentists, Scientist and in any other profession or field you can think of. But to brand them all with the same stigma because of the few is totally unjust.

These are professional people, and many of those that help with SA are survivors themselves. The have gone to school and university for long hours and have sacrificed a lot of their free time to get where they are. Do they deserve to be compensated? Just as much as a surgeon who saves your life does.

Quote:
N-E-V-E-R under ANY CIRCUMASTANCE rerlinquish any degree of control regardless of what any egotistical T says
Ton they are not all egotistical. Your comment, I think, is totally unfair to the profession for the reasons stated above.

In your original post you said:

Quote:
Never, and this means N-E-V-E-R relinquish any degree of control to anyone, for any reason, at any time, regardless who they are or what say they posess.
How can I not do this with my Wife or Daughter or my very good friends. I mean if you choose to do it fine but you are missing a whole lot of life. It is my humble opinion tht control is shared in good relationships and that is as it should be.

_________________________
Mikey

IT REALLY IS OK TO STUMBLE. NONE OF US ARE PERFECT.

Top
#39067 - 06/17/03 12:03 PM Re: No-one can relate...even here??!
RemittentPeace Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/06/03
Posts: 19
I agree everyone's experiences different. I applaud anyone who address how they feel they are very specifically different than others. I still feel very different and I haven't talked about it b/c I am afraid personally that I will be discounted (I tried to in chat). So just talking about it is a big step IMO.


btw re: therapist I can only relate my experience. I had about a dozen horrible ones (one knew my dad and was a complete a-hole) but I eventually did find a fantastic one. I'm not telling anyone to hang in there or keep trying, but that approach did work in my case eventually. too bad she lives in another state now and I can no longer see her.

I had one immediate family member that was the opposite of supportive, so I have not given my trust to my family b/c they are my family, I have really had to evaluate each one and see if that individual is worth trusting w/ my feelings and to what level.

I like the mention of control. Having complete control and thus by extension responsibility (the two go hand in hand in my life) has been hard for me to do. I did not want to take control b/c I was frightened to. For me it was like swimming. I was very frightened to swim as a kid, but once I got the hang of it, I loved it. That is purely a personal experience though.

btw sorry to talk about myself so much. not trying to hijack the thread.


Top
#39068 - 06/17/03 12:10 PM Re: No-one can relate...even here??!
Marc Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/25/03
Posts: 256
Loc: Tucson, AZ
I need help with a therapist (Not from, with.)

I need to get to work so I can't go into details right now but after I lay it all out later today I'll need some feedback. I can't tell if I had a good one or not since I trust no one to start with \:\(

Marc

NOTE: Details of my inquiry can be found here .


Top
#39069 - 06/18/03 10:24 AM Re: No-one can relate...even here??!
Tom S. Offline
Member

Registered: 04/15/03
Posts: 161
Loc: Nashville, Tn
Quote:
Originally posted by mikechurch:
Hi Tom:

Gotta take exception again. Are there bad Therapists? Sure there are. Just as there are bad cops, doctors, lawyers, teachers, engineers, pilots, Generals, Politicians, Dentists, Scientist and in any other profession or field you can think of. But to brand them all with the same stigma because of the few is totally unjust.

These are professional people, and many of those that help with SA are survivors themselves. The have gone to school and university for long hours and have sacrificed a lot of their free time to get where they are. Do they deserve to be compensated? Just as much as a surgeon who saves your life does.

Quote:
N-E-V-E-R under ANY CIRCUMASTANCE rerlinquish any degree of control regardless of what any egotistical T says
Ton they are not all egotistical. Your comment, I think, is totally unfair to the profession for the reasons stated above.

In your original post you said:

Quote:
Never, and this means N-E-V-E-R relinquish any degree of control to anyone, for any reason, at any time, regardless who they are or what say they posess.
How can I not do this with my Wife or Daughter or my very good friends. I mean if you choose to do it fine but you are missing a whole lot of life. It is my humble opinion tht control is shared in good relationships and that is as it should be.
Mike;
I hate to have to say this, because I don't really want to keep stepping on your toes, but if you actually practice and believe what you are writing here, then I sense you have a dependancy problem holding other people in higher regard than yourself. I think the whole issue of responsibility and control is something you should closley examine, and not necessarily with your present T.
You should know all the nobel professions you mention are no better than the people who work in them, and the counseling profession; and I speak from first hand experience in my area, is compromised of some of the worst wash-outs from other professions, with some of the most deviant personal agenda anywhere, with no one dedicated solely toward the benefit of the client.
If an individual in the mid-Tn area enters the theraputic arena with any issue sexual in nature, they had better damn well maintain a clear head and complete control at all times unless being re-victimized is not a concern. There are simply no good/bad T's. The results can be devastating in this self policed profession. There is no system of accountability, requiring NO specilized training, and IF liscensing is even involved, it is done by the same branch of local govt that liscenses palm readers and used car lots.
But I will have to agree Mike, I have lost out on a bunch of life, but it is not simply because I choose to stay in control. I choose to stay away from substance abuse, prison or any other deviance that I know carries a consequence that I choose not to deal with, and if that choice leaves me alone with God, then so be it. I WILL remain in control, at all times, in EVERY circumstance.
Finally, I don't know your wife or daughter, but as the eldest male in my household, I am left with the responsibility to be the head, looked up to by both my family and by law. One thing you need to consider immediatly, is the fact that when someone in your household is involved with the law, especially minor children, then who do you think gets the warrant served on them? The head of the house hold with your last name, and it's not your wife, because she did not adopt you and change your name, but rather she changed her name when you married her. I have no problem with giving in, too frequently I admit and many times spoil them. But; I CHOOSE to.
Someone else start a thread on control.
quote: In this time of ecenomic uncertainty, it's easy to see who is dedicated to providing health care, and who is chasing bucks.
Tom S.

_________________________
' None are so enslaved as those falsely led to believe they are actually free '

Top
#39070 - 06/18/03 11:06 AM Re: No-one can relate...even here??!
godsrabbit Offline
Member

Registered: 06/18/03
Posts: 98
Quote:
Originally posted by Tom S.:
N-E-V-E-R under ANY CIRCUMASTANCE rerlinquish any degree of control regardless of what any egotistical T says.
No one can heal you but you and God, and YOU MUST REMAIN IN CONTROL AT ALL TIMES without deravation if you want to be free.
dear tom,

as someone who has been, for the last year, extremely antagonistic toward therapy and as someone who leans deeply on my faith in healing, i feel compelled to point out the contradiction in your above statement so that perhaps you can see the others' viewpoints from another perspective...

God is in control...we are not...whether you choose to relinquish control to a therapist or to God, the fact is accepting that you are not capable of changing the past, only embracing a future in which there is hope...

it has taken me a long time to reconcile my faith with my counseling because i was forever in the trap of saying: "i do not need this, i have God"...well, God gives us what we need to heal and sometimes it is a flash of revelation, sometimes it is a therapist who knows how to listen...i have stopped questioning the ways in which God chooses to help me...

if you do not believe that it is God's choice for you, that is okay...but we do not need to "give up" control to a therapist or anyone else...we cannot give up something which we do not possess, first of all, and secondly...it is not about "giving up"...it is about letting go...

~ peace


Top
#39071 - 06/18/03 01:48 PM Re: No-one can relate...even here??!
hdan Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/06/03
Posts: 43
Loc: Texas
Hi Stranger,

Looks like the collective we got sidetracked in the discussion of T's (which might be a good thing to move to another thread). Certainly there are the good and bad - look for the good and avoid the bad.

Although, my sexual abuse started early (8ish I would say - I'm 35 now and understand if I'm considered old by you and other people - gosh, when I was 22 a 35 year-old person was almost over the hill...lol \:D ...anyhow...), it continued into high school. I was a big guy too for my age (now I'm more a normal size guy as the other boys grew more) so it's made it hard for me to deal with the fact that I didn't stop the abusers (who ranged from my dad to other men to other boys slighly older than me). I've debated with myself why I didn't stop them. I first told myself it's because I wanted it or I enjoyed it. Then I would tell myself I should just "be a man", forget it and go on.

But in each case, the other person had an agenda to abuse me (or sometimes the word "abuse" is too politcally correct and generic - the true word is to "rape" me or take sexual advantage of me to achieve their own sexual goals). Sure I enjoyed it, and, as the only positive thing I ever had with a guy, I even wanted it.

However, it doesn't detract from the fact that I was being raped. I wasn't doing it out of love for someone or even just sexual pleasure between consenting people, I was doing it because of the fear that had been instilled in me, because of the low self esteem and co-dependency given to me by past abuses, because I thought that I wasn't able to have any real friends and had to settle for this abuse as my "friendship" with guys, because, I think, most importantly, they could sense that I wouldn't - or counldn't - say no. This inability to say no is one of the true evils of the sexual abuse of men/boys.

Anyhow, there's more to my story that may be of interest to you, but I'll stick to the topic of this thread. I challenge you to do the incredibly hard work of working through your abuse while you are younger. When you get to the other side in your twenties and really start to feel alive rather than dead inside, you will be glad that you did it then rather than in your thirties like me or the 40s or 50s like others. Take heart!


Top
Page 3 of 4 < 1 2 3 4 >


Moderator:  ModTeam, TJ jeff 

I agree that my access and use of the MaleSurvivor discussion forums and chat room is subject to the terms of this Agreement. AND the sole discretion of MaleSurvivor.
I agree that my use of MaleSurvivor resources are AT-WILL, and that my posting privileges may be terminated at any time, and for any reason by MaleSurvivor.