I can only speak for myself (and some of the other women I have gotten to know) but I work daily on myself and I agree that we all have baggage that brought us together. Not one of us is not in individual therapy. I think it may seem on this board that we only focus on our men because we tend to do that here in this forum, while our solo work happens elsewhere.

Whats interesting in abuse part of what kep your man silent was the "it your fault message from the abuser". I think the concern here is that many men are hearing that again in some of these threads. Thank you for your honesty!

Interesting analogy Mulligan.

Jim

I wonder about that... in fact, often we wives have been accused of trying too hard to find an excuse for infidelity (or other problems). Often on these boards we are told that CSA is NO EXCUSE so I am not sure that the message to our men is IT'S YOUR FAULT, but rather IT'S NOT YOUR FAULT. So if that message is being received by our spouses or other supporters (that it is their fault) then it is a communication issue.

Not to be too personal but my husband was not acting out. And it certainly takes two to tango in a marriage and I own (or am trying to identify and own) my part of that dance. The fact remains that I too had unmet needs in my relationship, we just chose different ways to handle it. And my interest on these boards is only trying to understand and support the person I love and have loved for almost 2 decades. And to understand why he felt that he didn't deserve the things he wanted or needed - or why he felt that he didn't deserve to communicate his frustration. Those are his words, not mine.

I really am very appreciative of your response and your input.

Survivors are not sure what their needs or wants are. They are programmed to exist to the pleasure of others. Any need they have must be met subversivly. Which is to say they basically live in their head not quite knowing where the belong or what is acceptable or what isn't. In normal child development kids parents provide a safe environment and the child develops boundries and explores the world. So basically the survivor doesn't communicate because he isn't seeing it as making a difference or it is unsafe or irrelevent because he wasn't allowed to develop in a safe environment. For healing to begin there must be safety or there will be NO progress. I never understood what safety meant until I felt what it looked like (strange I know). Acting out or acting in is just information there is another problem and that is all. It is a form of proving the messages of the perp and communicating to love that I"I have a problem" (because they can't verbalize or understand what they are feeling). The need for acting out or in slowly begins to wain as progress is made through recovery.

I think the spouses should consider that healthy people generally don't act out becuase it is a message that something isn't quite right. Of all the survivors (I am an act in guy) I have spoken with who act out I have never heard them say their spouse drove them to it or that it had anything to do with the spouse or that they were glad it happened. This is where the self confidense of the spouse comes in. Low self esteem...when something happens instead of saying this isn't about me they auto internalize and then they are incapable of anything more than their own crisis. Healthiness and healing begins when you are able to take a negative situation and realize that it isn't about you. You then become capable of empathy and the ability to understadn what your spouse is dealing with. Until that happens it is a zero sum game.

I think you are closing the loop on our previous go round.

From what I have read, many of the women with spouses who ACT OUT know that it has little to do with them and they empathize greatly with their husbands. I think they have been taken to task lately on NOT acknowledging their contribution to the infidelities and if I understand what you are saying, it isn't about them.

Since this is not really the case with my husband, I am interested more in understanding the inability to communicate or the damaged coping mechanisms (along with working on myself to understand my role in the marriage).

...

Esposa, two things have to occur in communicating, vulnerablity and trust for the communication to mean anything. To a survivor being vulnerable feel alot like victim........So communication comes with work on transitioning away from those fears.

Smuf......No doubt that was not a well thought out statement. I can see that was your first post and can assure that is not represenative of the normal discourse here on MS (or at least in my experiences).

Vulnerability and trust. Well said.

The irony of this situation is not lost on me. While he works on these things and makes that transition (I hope!), he desperately needs me (and others he loves) to be reliable and supportive. And this comes at a time that I struggle with trusting him. Thank you for your input. It means a great deal.

You doing well?