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#390539 - 03/24/12 02:11 PM Re: Betrayals in Marriage- The Variety Pack [Re: Castle]
Mulligan Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/15/10
Posts: 94
Loc: USA
"Deceit is betrayal. The secret-keeper intends to keep the secret for his own benefit (eg. if I tell her she'll think less of me, if I tell her she'll leave me, if I tell her I'll be embarrassed, etc.). It is the grandest act of manipulation: I will hide this from her to acheive my goals."

Please accept my apologies for being so abrupt on the matter but this statement should be taken down or I am reading it out of context or something.

Not disclosing has everything to do with trust. Do I trust that this person wont hurt me? Clearly by this statement it is evident that you are/were hurtful. Selfishness is never the reason for non disclosure. It has everything to do with being abused and broken trust.

_________________________
Because I never give up the fight!

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#390547 - 03/24/12 02:35 PM Re: Betrayals in Marriage- The Variety Pack [Re: Mulligan]
KMCINVA Offline
Greeter
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 1556
Mulligan well said. I believe it is how each party in the relationship feels and perceives the words and actions of the other party--do they trust each other. The survivor has a weak foundation for trust and if he feels that the "secret" will be used against him or not believed he will hold back. If the survivor feels or perceives (and perception is his own reality) that the other spouse has a tendency to judge others harshly or derives pleasure of putting others down, then the survivor will hold back. Does the other spouse make fun of the survivor in public--the survivor may laugh but is hurt and now builds a wall that what will be said will be used against him. Also how does the survivor feel in the relationship--does he perceive himself as number 1 in the relationship or does he always believe he stands behind the children, the spouse's parents and siblings--his being or word meaning little? This will effect trust and feeling of worth. There are so many reasons why the survivor does not trust and it goes back to the abuse. Failure to tell does not mean manipulation but rather to the survivor survival.


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#390550 - 03/24/12 03:06 PM Re: Betrayals in Marriage- The Variety Pack [Re: KMCINVA]
Esposa Offline
F&F Greeter
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/19/11
Posts: 678
Loc: NJ
As a spouse, I agree. I understand that he needed to disclose on his own timetable and would NEVER consider that a betrayal. As I have posted before, I wasn't ready at 22 and neither was he.


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#390636 - 03/25/12 12:03 AM Re: Betrayals in Marriage- The Variety Pack [Re: Esposa]
lucylives Offline


Registered: 04/07/11
Posts: 357
I have just one thing to say.....I take offense to the posts that say maybe they didn't tell us because they didn't trush us, feels we may judge harshly, use it against them. blah blah blah. Not trying to disrespect you guys but if that is the case, why didn't my survivor tell ANYONE for 40 years?????? Is everyone in the world judgemental, untrustworthy and all the other reasons they don't tell.

I am sorry but my husband didn't keep it secret from me or anyone else because of anything other than shame and embaressment. It has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not we are trustworthy or not. Obviously we are as most of us are the only people they have ever told.


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#390658 - 03/25/12 09:25 AM Re: Betrayals in Marriage- The Variety Pack [Re: KMCINVA]
Anniemy4sons Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/29/11
Posts: 98
Loc: NJ
Ok, I'll buy into that some of you married women who act like that. It makes sense that some men will marry women who they know will treat them badly. Their CSA shame will make them "look" for women who will shame & abuse them further.

But some look for nice women that THEY can USE. Some look for women that have their own baggage of abuse and dysfunction, that the survivor can manipulate & control. Pass it on. "the weaker one". Some survivors are not knights in shining armor but are abusive angry men hiding behind the "face" of a knight in shining armor.

Sorry guys but sometimes it does mean manipulation.

My husband didn't disclose because he said he couldn't tell me one thing without the other. AND he wasn't READY to stop. For him, sexual addiction was more important. HE felt he already HAD to give up so much (ALCHOHOL & DRUGS @ 19 years old) that he DESERVED to have some pleasure! YES HE SAID PLEASURE.
Getting sober from drugs and alcohol was something he always resented. He said he did it out of spite because people said he couldn't do it. No one tells him what to do! NO ONE!
He said sometimes it was about the shame cycle and sometimes just because he enjoyed it. He felt he had so much responsibility. Still blamed the whole world because he had a sh*TTy childhood. (parents divorce, carrying around the shame of the CSA, drug addiction etc). Then, the responsibility of being a husband & father. He deserved something of his OWN.
The secrets took on a life of its own that HE was protecting. He said it was not until recent years that the infidelity began to bother him. He started to feel guilty for betraying me and as it escalated HE felt like a prisoner to the shame HE was perpetuating. Not shame about the abuse but shame due to HIS shameful behavior - the sex with other women, giving me STDs, (he got treated but didn't help/tell me) chasing other women, spending family money on other women, gambling, golf, etc. The summer of 2010 was a turning point but not enough. He watched me getting sicker and sicker through the summer. Doctor's couldn't figure out what was wrong with me AND HE KEPT HIS MOUTH SHUT. He never said "hey I may have gotten her sick .." He sometimes didn't even show up at the hospital because he said "It made ME feel bad about myself.." HELLO??
He left me to fly home alone(I got seriously ill while away) from vacation(an international flight) because HE didn't want to cut HIS short.

When he finally disclosed everything he said it never occurred to him that he couldn't trust me. HE knew he could trust me. He also said he knew I would help him.

He also said he went through a grieving process after disclosure because now I knew everything and he was sharing something that was HIS and his alone.
Distorted thinking.
I get it, now that he has voiced it and in therapy he sees what screwed up thinking he had.
ALSO,
He was always number one in our house. If HE was uncomfortable then the rest of US had to change to make him comfortable. If he walked into the TV room and we were watching TV then HE would turn the channel to what he wanted. If he was hot and we were cold HE would turn the heat down & open a window. (He would tell us to put on a sweater)

Despite some of your own experiences(Act IN), some survivors ARE selfish and arrogant and self centered(Act OUT). He spent so much time feeding "I'm a victim", "I'm a victim" that he felt ENTITLED to whatever whenever. No matter WHO got mowed down in his angry spray of bullets. This includes his children, his wife, his family.
Slowly he has begun the recovery process but that didn't happen until he acknowledged that HE is only a victim if he allows himself to still buy into the lies.

You see, its not always black and white. ALL survivors are NOT the same but I am beginning to think there are the survivors that:

1) Act out
2) Act in
3) A combination of the BOTH.

I just happened to marry one who severely ACTED OUT.

_________________________
God is my teacher, Jesus my comfort and the Holy Spirit my protector.
I AM Listening...

Thank you Mother Mary.
Pray the Rosary every day. http://www.comepraytherosary.org/

I BELIEVE IN HER PROMISE.

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#390659 - 03/25/12 09:40 AM Re: Betrayals in Marriage- The Variety Pack [Re: Anniemy4sons]
Mulligan Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/15/10
Posts: 94
Loc: USA
Just because someone doesn't have the ability to trust doesn't mean you are not trust worthy. I am sorry you had to experience that. Basically what your husband was dealing with was trying to have his needs met...but unfortunately when you can't trust anyone its like trying to empty the ocean with a five gallon bucket.

I also don't think I can reply here without acknoweledging your anger. Anger is a necessary part of the greiving process. Keep moving forward.

_________________________
Because I never give up the fight!

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#390661 - 03/25/12 09:46 AM Re: Betrayals in Marriage- The Variety Pack [Re: Mulligan]
Esposa Offline
F&F Greeter
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/19/11
Posts: 678
Loc: NJ
Trying to empty the ocean with a five gallon bucket...

That is extremely well put.

Annie - sound familiar?


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#390693 - 03/25/12 02:08 PM Re: Betrayals in Marriage- The Variety Pack [Re: Esposa]
Anniemy4sons Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/29/11
Posts: 98
Loc: NJ
so so familiar..

and HE even admits they weren't needs. He said "he wanted what he wanted when he wanted"

He saw, he liked, he wanted, he took .

He is working very hard on his self centeredness and his selfishness. He stops himself now and says "that was selfish wasn't it.." Never in our 23+ years has he ever caught himself or even admitted when he was behaving badly. He has a long way to go but he has come so far.

I expect slips (NOT the ACTING OUT kind), I expect imperfection. But I'd rather voice some here than dump every last one on his lap. If I complained about every single time he screws up while trying to fix this thing He'd never get anywhere. He would be concentrating too much on NOT messing up. He would feel like a failure. He would start listening to those old tapes again. I'm sure of it.
"old tapes" - I'm referring to the lies he told himself. He's not good enough. He's a loser, He's worthless. He had in his head all these years that he is not good enough for me/I'm too good for him. If I ever found out who he really was, I would leave him. He couldn't believe I would date him let alone marry him... if I knew.. IF I KNEW...

Neither one of us is well enough to voice every last thing to each other. I'm not healed enough and he's not strong enough to deal with EVERYTHING. But if we do this right, we WILL get there someday.




Edited by Anniemy4sons (03/25/12 02:38 PM)
_________________________
God is my teacher, Jesus my comfort and the Holy Spirit my protector.
I AM Listening...

Thank you Mother Mary.
Pray the Rosary every day. http://www.comepraytherosary.org/

I BELIEVE IN HER PROMISE.

Top
#410531 - 09/18/12 01:16 PM Re: Betrayals in Marriage- The Variety Pack [Re: herowannabe]
northernflicker Offline


Registered: 08/19/12
Posts: 88
This thread is sooooooo educational for me. Glad I found it.

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#410582 - 09/19/12 12:13 AM Re: Betrayals in Marriage- The Variety Pack [Re: herowannabe]
HD001 Offline


Registered: 07/30/12
Posts: 243
Loc: us
1) not being trusted
2) not being listened to
3) feeling like your feelings don't matter
4) being blamed for things that aren't your fault
5) being pushed away

I list these as because in western culture being in a committed relationship implies that you will be loved, trusted, listened to, and that your needs and feelings will be equally important as your partners. My partner has never cheated (that I know about). His acting out had more to do with punishing me for having needs and feelings because he is so uncomfortable with his own so he responds by pushing away and drinking. Getting angry and blaming me for things.
_________________________
Everything comes from within

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