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#390334 - 03/23/12 09:48 AM Betrayals in Marriage- The Variety Pack
herowannabe Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/01/11
Posts: 386
Loc: USA
Quote:
But to focus on acting out as the only betrayal, I think we are missing many other factors that impact the CSA victim and the spouse and how each cope in their marriage.


Can we list some of these "many other factors"? Other than sexually acting out against a spouse, what are other "betrayals" you've perpetrated/suffered?

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For I know the plans I have made for you. Plans to give you a future and a hope. Jeremiah 29:11


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#390338 - 03/23/12 10:09 AM Re: Betrayals in Marriage- The Variety Pack [Re: herowannabe]
herowannabe Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/01/11
Posts: 386
Loc: USA
Supporter here.

Though my husband's sexually acting out was "the" huge trauma to our marriage, the actual act of sex apart from me, his wife, was the result of many little betrayals. The grand poohbah of the betrayals was:

Disclosure (bearing your soul to your soulmate).

What became clear in the wake of his acting out was that I really had NO clue about the life experiences that shaped my husband. As a result, I didn't know HIM.

He knew of his CSA and he knew of things he'd done in response to his CSA, but he chose to never tell me of those things. I understand his reasoning, but the fact is that hiding significant parts of himself from me, the person from whom he expected life-long loyalty and devotion, was deceit.

Deceit is betrayal. The secret-keeper intends to keep the secret for his own benefit (eg. if I tell her she'll think less of me, if I tell her she'll leave me, if I tell her I'll be embarrassed, etc.). It is the grandest act of manipulation: I will hide this from her to acheive my goals.

A marriage is greatly handicapped when its foundation is full of sinkholes; it's only a matter of time before something gives.

That is the one betrayal that all of the other betrayals were born of.


Peace-
herowannabe

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For I know the plans I have made for you. Plans to give you a future and a hope. Jeremiah 29:11


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#390340 - 03/23/12 10:24 AM Re: Betrayals in Marriage- The Variety Pack [Re: herowannabe]
Castle Offline


Registered: 10/03/09
Posts: 728
Loc: NJ
I wonder if you would share some of the baggage you brought into the marriage? or did you not bring anything from your past and upbringing into this particular marriage?

I'm not saying you cheated or the likes, but nobody comes into a marriage or relationship without bringing some baggage in, I'm curious if you can put to words what you brought in from your upbringing, family, prior marriages or relationships.

We certainly, many times over, know the shame and hurt "your survivor" brought in and on you, because of his acting out and his history.

Edited to take out a name...I certainly didn't mean to "out" a survivor but thought it was common knowledge whom your survivor is, my appologies to you and to your survivor.

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My posts can self destruct at any time..read them while you can.

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#390347 - 03/23/12 10:37 AM Re: Betrayals in Marriage- The Variety Pack [Re: Castle]
herowannabe Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/01/11
Posts: 386
Loc: USA
First, you do not need to identify my husband. I should think you'd know enough by now to not name a fellow survivor.

I will answer your questions after you correct your most inappropriate attempt to embarrass my husband.

herowannabe- or, as YOU prefer to call me, wannabe.

_________________________


For I know the plans I have made for you. Plans to give you a future and a hope. Jeremiah 29:11


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#390349 - 03/23/12 10:41 AM Re: Betrayals in Marriage- The Variety Pack [Re: herowannabe]
KMCINVA Offline
Greeter
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 1647
Why do we not feel safe to tell anyone about the abuse? What does it take us to feel safe? We hide from others, we interpret their words and actions as not being caring and loving. We are asked years later why we did not tell anyone--parent, sibling, spouse, friend-we did not want to accept the abuse nor did we feel safe to share this part of our life. I am learning i did not feel safe for a lifetime to share, it took therapy and a non judgmental voice to open up the wounds that i long wanted to bury. So everyone asks why i did not feel safe with anyone. I do not know but now know listening, hearing, not judging a person or having conversations that put others down frequently, a gentle smile or pat on the shoulder are so important in human interaction and building trust. How many secrets do children have from parents, spouse from spouse, friend from friend, sibling from sibling? I think they are more than anyone wishes to admit. We all have a past, unless anyone is perfect and has lived amongst perfect people than their are things that we do not share, fear holds us back of how the other person will react and we assume how they react to other people will be the way the react to us, always fearing a condemnation or put down. Survivors have a poor foundation to trust, sadly and unfortunately it takes more to gain our trust to share what we see as a shameful past.


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#390355 - 03/23/12 10:57 AM Re: Betrayals in Marriage- The Variety Pack [Re: KMCINVA]
Castle Offline


Registered: 10/03/09
Posts: 728
Loc: NJ
Usually like "asking for forgiveness" nobody should ask a survivor "why didn't you tell?" For many of the reasons K has mentioned above...in addition to a few more.

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My posts can self destruct at any time..read them while you can.

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#390374 - 03/23/12 02:21 PM Re: Betrayals in Marriage- The Variety Pack [Re: Castle]
lucylives Offline


Registered: 04/07/11
Posts: 360
Let's see...betrayals other than infidelity.

I will keep it brief.

Financial misconduct-marrying me after lying to me about the amount of debt he was coming into the marriage with. HUGE amount. Illegal activities connected with financial shit.

I will not go into other things here. It doesn't feel safe.


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#390390 - 03/23/12 03:59 PM Re: Betrayals in Marriage- The Variety Pack [Re: lucylives]
Castle Offline


Registered: 10/03/09
Posts: 728
Loc: NJ
I would never use the word perpetrated, but ill play along a little...Early in recovery I lied to my wifes face, a few times about smoking cigarettes again. She has a wicked good sense of smell so she knew but I did lie to her about it..and we wound up in T together.

Like your trying to say it wasn't the act of smoking she was mad at but the lying...she thought I was just going/driving and hour twenty each way to T to hang and bitch about stuff and smoke a bunch of cigarettes..LOl. We wound up after a huge fight in T together to work out the issue and have been pretty good since...In the past I might consider lying about a parking/speeding ticket...but now, I will just tell her cause if I lie about it it will be that much worse and since we worked together she hasnt gone "crazy" if by change I get a ticket or the likes. Initially my survivor brain might tell me she will go "crazy" b ut she will say when was the last time I did that..which is true it hasn't happenedd, but the initial instinct is to protect myself.

I still feel the smoking was a catch 22 and here is where the mars and venus comes into play...if I said I "needed" to smoke cigarettes she would not have said ok...even though it was a way for me to get a bit of control in the moment..it still wouldn't have been cool so I "had" to lie or not smoke..i choose to smoke and lie and aid the consequences for it..."funny" that I can do many things and we are ok, but smoking cigarettes is completely off the table because of the lying trigger and I enjoy my relationship and sex life much more than I enjoy smoking cigs, but I do miss them...the consequence is just not worth the gain and we keep some balance in our relationship.


It is becoming easier and easier to automatically tell her things I think might make her angry vs what actually makes her angry now vs survivor brain saying protect yourself at all costs even with a stupid lie.

FWIW...even if you don't want me to post or the likes this writing is good for me smile so thanks...possible it may even help some others who may not mention it today, tomorrow or ever...that's cool too.

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My posts can self destruct at any time..read them while you can.

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#390393 - 03/23/12 04:12 PM Re: Betrayals in Marriage- The Variety Pack [Re: herowannabe]
herowannabe Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/01/11
Posts: 386
Loc: USA
Quote:
It is becoming easier and easier to automatically tell her things I think might make her angry vs what actually makes her angry now vs survivor brain saying protect yourself at all costs even with a stupid lie.


I think this is a great example of how the survivor's emotional maturity gets "short-circuited" by CSA.

You'd think a healthy, grown man wouldn't be afraid of telling the truth about anything that wasn't hurting another individual. However, it seems that many (most???) male survivors are trapped in a childlike fear of the consequences of telling the truth. And that's where it all goes wrong in a marriage.

I'm really glad you and your wife nipped that in the bud because little lies turn to big lies in the blink of an eye.

Thanks for this helpful post, Castle.

herowannabe

_________________________


For I know the plans I have made for you. Plans to give you a future and a hope. Jeremiah 29:11


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#390395 - 03/23/12 04:20 PM Re: Betrayals in Marriage- The Variety Pack [Re: herowannabe]
Castle Offline


Registered: 10/03/09
Posts: 728
Loc: NJ
There is nothing "childlike" of the fear of telling the truth when you were hiding it for others at our expense for 25+ years...I think is some of whats lost in translation....also I said "makes her angry NOW" she used to get angry about a ticket before she worked on some of her issues too...so there was some precedent to my "fears".

We both worked on ourselves AND the realtionship as a whole and have gotton to a much better place...but it wasn't on one of us to change and the other stay completly the same.

and YW.

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