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#389785 - 03/19/12 11:54 AM can he remember from baby times? may trigger!!!!!!
confusion4life Offline


Registered: 02/12/12
Posts: 109
Loc: Italy


_________________________
everything is always okay in the end, if it's not, then it's not the end

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#389788 - 03/19/12 01:32 PM Re: can he remember from baby times? may trigger!!!!!! [Re: confusion4life]
peroperic2009 Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/09/11
Posts: 3600
Loc: South-East Europe
Hey Manuela,
I don't believe that your husband could remember all those details when he was so young. However I'm not sure that he manipulates you either. The thing is that he is coming from totally different culture than you. I'm not at all familiar with his background and Indian culture but I'm coming from country where there are many nationalities and imposed totally different systems of believes. So I know how different things could be seen and described for couple of people with some cultural differences.
If in his culture there are believes that child could remember things as early as three months than he speaks actually what he believes. Same could be about previous lives and many many other things. Cultural background is very important, you should try to learn as much as possible about that in try to better understand your husband.
I'm interested to hear what would be outcome of that test.
Nevertheless it is for me rarely seen that victim become abuser to his own child. And I really don't know nothing about incest in families. Certainly there is some play of roles and some rules must be same always. There must be some literature about it. As I can see in US there are many examples about it. I've just read some book that very shortly describes that in case of incest is actually happening betrayal of power. It is always case that abuser is adult who is in power against child (victim). Secrecy is other part of that relationship.
Here is some article about incest but it is related to victim and not to preparator:
http://www.mhcc.org.au/TICP/research-papers/Kluft-2011.pdf
And there is article for offender's treatment:
http://www.ipt-forensics.com/journal/volume3/j3_1_2.htm
I hope your family is doing well!
Pero

_________________________
My story

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#389789 - 03/19/12 01:46 PM Re: can he remember from baby times? may trigger!!!!!! [Re: confusion4life]
Ken Singer, LCSW Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/24/00
Posts: 5778
Loc: Lambertville, NJ USA
Hello Confusion:
There is some controversy about childhood memories before the age of 4. Most scientists concur that permanent memories don't take hold until the age of 4 and oftentimes people who recall memories before that time are usually taking cues from photographs or recalling stories told to them. However, people do have "body memories" in which they may react to memories pertaining to their bodies, such as being touched by someone but don't have the recall of who is touching them or the context of the touch.

Pre-verbal memories (without the language to put the memory in context) are often vague in that the child's brain and experiences are confused because they don't have the understanding that an older child or adult would have.

That said, don't know what your husband is going through in the legal system. Hopefully, he can get some help from a competent program or therapist. As for the voice-stress analyzer, most therapists in this field would rely more on a polygraph than a vsa, at least from what I've heard. You may want to do some research on the vsa vs. the polygraph. Neither are 100% reliable but the poly is more accurate than the vsa, in the opinion of many professionals.

Good luck in your efforts.
Ken


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#389792 - 03/19/12 02:04 PM Re: can he remember from baby times? may trigger!!!!!! [Re: Ken Singer, LCSW]
Castle Offline


Registered: 10/03/09
Posts: 727
Loc: NJ
Personally I wouldnt let him near the children and I would get the family with a trained T. ASAP.

"i am totally clear that he is dangerous" Your words from the other post.

" (not raped and not physically hurt, not forced or asked her to touch him)"

This sentance leave me so many questions for you. Protect yourself and your children.

Sorry you are dealing with this, but your story makes me very nervous for you and your children....it seems from what you write, everything about him is manipulative.

_________________________

My posts can self destruct at any time..read them while you can.

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#389885 - 03/20/12 03:17 AM Re: can he remember from baby times? may trigger!!!!!! [Re: peroperic2009]
confusion4life Offline


Registered: 02/12/12
Posts: 109
Loc: Italy

thanks pero, i will let you know
_________________________
everything is always okay in the end, if it's not, then it's not the end

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#389886 - 03/20/12 03:23 AM Re: can he remember from baby times? may trigger!!!!!! [Re: Ken Singer, LCSW]
confusion4life Offline


Registered: 02/12/12
Posts: 109
Loc: Italy
hi ken,

thanks for your answer. i chose the test with the voice analyses because i read a lot about all the options and it seems that the polygraph ones are less reliable. but because you wrote this now, i will call the fbi and simply ask them. this voice analyses i found here (near italy - detectors are not usually used officially in europe but this certain one has been used in austrian courts when things got really complicated). the company which does the tests had this training year in israel (war crimes...)and say it is 98 % reliable. but i am still going to call the fbi in the usa somewhere now, so that i am sure i get the best result possible.
besides the voice analyses test, i have sent him through a ct scan and a magnet resonance test and will get the results tomorrow, as i read that "child abusers" have differnt parts of the brain not the same like us (not abusive people).
i just hold on to the last straw i can get....so that i dont do anything wrong to even him.

thanks ken, for this valuable information.

manuela

_________________________
everything is always okay in the end, if it's not, then it's not the end

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#389887 - 03/20/12 03:40 AM Re: can he remember from baby times? may trigger!!!!!! [Re: Castle]
confusion4life Offline


Registered: 02/12/12
Posts: 109
Loc: Italy
_________________________
everything is always okay in the end, if it's not, then it's not the end

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#389917 - 03/20/12 10:16 AM Re: can he remember from baby times? may trigger!!!!!! [Re: confusion4life]
GoodHope Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/05/11
Posts: 413
I don't want you to underestate the harm to your daughter just because there was no penetration. Severe psycholohical harm is done with nudity, without. With violence and without. Complicating matters further is that her perp is her father. Trust issues, self esteem, blurred boundaries etc. don't trust that your daughter seems fine. I pray she is, but the fall out from the abuse manifests itself in many different ways. My husband looks perfect. His mother described him as a perfect child. He strove to paper perfect because he felt less than because of the degradation of his abuse. She is bound to feel guilt and perceive herself as partly responsible for his legal troubles even though she is not a guilty party. My husband is a grown man now and still has difficulty not seeing himself as complicit. It still disturbs him to think of upsetting family dynamics. I don't think any victim should have to deal with their perp unless they are fully capable of understanding their interaction with him or her.

_________________________
Wife of a survivor

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#389921 - 03/20/12 11:02 AM Re: can he remember from baby times? may trigger!!!!!! [Re: GoodHope]
confusion4life Offline


Registered: 02/12/12
Posts: 109
Loc: Italy
thank you
_________________________
everything is always okay in the end, if it's not, then it's not the end

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#389922 - 03/20/12 11:32 AM Re: can he remember from baby times? may trigger!!!!!! [Re: confusion4life]
peroperic2009 Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/09/11
Posts: 3600
Loc: South-East Europe
Dear Manuela,
it seems that you have had everything under control, you didn't left anything uncovered. I'm very happy to hear how you've dealt with your independent daughter, you are very supportive to her, I admire that! You must be super-mother and super-women.
I wish to be one day same parent as you are.
Please let us know if there are in your neighborhood left some other women like you are smile?
You are really awesome!!!
Pero

_________________________
My story

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#389963 - 03/20/12 08:05 PM Re: can he remember from baby times? may trigger!!!!!! [Re: peroperic2009]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6376
Loc: 2.5 NATO Nations
I just want to hop-in and say "well done" to a great mom, Confusion4life!

Before I read your story, my knee-jerk reaction was "WOW...Italy!" Its my favorite place on Earth (not kidding).

Then I read your account of what happened, and I am even further impressed; WOW...a powerful Mom!!!

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#389971 - 03/20/12 08:43 PM Re: can he remember from baby times? may trigger!!!!!! [Re: confusion4life]
Avery46 Offline


Registered: 09/23/10
Posts: 1243
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: confusion4life
...but he has crossed the line - i cant handle him differently....


Manuela,

I believe what you wrote is very important. He did cross a line. As your daughters mother, you want to protect her and this is GREAT.

I remember some stuff that happened when I was 3 almost 4. Like Ken stated memories at that age are very limited and before that age the memory is NOT clear. My kids are adults now but, I remember them when they were little (before age 4) and they were so innocent and very fragile for lack of better word. I am touched by your son's memory of good things.

I have a female friend here locally, whose husband sexually abused their daughters. I am thrilled to know her. She is very loving and protected of her kids like you.

Be well,
Avery

_________________________
aka DJsport

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#389980 - 03/20/12 10:54 PM Re: can he remember from baby times? may trigger!!!!!! [Re: Avery46]
mike13 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/02/11
Posts: 419
Loc: California USA
Manuela,

Thanks for giving me the chance to help you and your family. I know we face a long road ahead but I feel that we can help you daughter experience the wonderful life that she deserves. Look forward to talking to you on Thursday Mike


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#390031 - 03/21/12 10:59 AM Re: can he remember from baby times? may trigger!!!!!! [Re: confusion4life]
phoenix321 Offline


Registered: 09/26/11
Posts: 912
Loc: USA, FL
I'm very sorry that happened to your daughter. Makes me angry really. frown The brain isn't fully developed until 6 months old at least. Everything is new to a baby so after the brain is developed, there really is no reason why it's not possible. I've read a baby does orgasm not long after being born. No offense, but, I think he's full shit, and since he abused your daughter, hope he goes to hell, er, jail. Get far, far away. If there's a great reason for divorce, this is one. Once a pedophile, always a pedophile. Pedos are master manipulators. If any pedo says they are "cured," they are full of shit and so is their shrink (pedo apologists are what they are even if they don't believe it). There's no evidence I've ever read that says a pedo can be "cured" even with meds and castration. I mean no offense to you, but I have no use for pedos.

_________________________
Phoenix

A guy opens the front door and sees a snail on his doorstep. He picks up the snail and throws it across the street in a neighbor's yard. A year later, the guy opens the front door and the same snail is on his doorstep. The snail says, "What the f*ck was that about?"

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#390214 - 03/22/12 11:57 AM Re: can he remember from baby times? may trigger!!!!!! [Re: phoenix321]
Jim1104 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/16/11
Posts: 407
Loc: Louisiana, USA
Manuela:

You are a terrific mom and a fantastic human being.

_________________________
Jim
Male/USA

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#390478 - 03/24/12 04:10 AM Re: can he remember from baby times? may trigger!!!!!! [Re: peroperic2009]
confusion4life Offline


Registered: 02/12/12
Posts: 109
Loc: Italy

thanks for thinking about us!
manuela
_________________________
everything is always okay in the end, if it's not, then it's not the end

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#390479 - 03/24/12 04:13 AM Re: can he remember from baby times? may trigger!!!!!! [Re: Jim1104]
confusion4life Offline


Registered: 02/12/12
Posts: 109
Loc: Italy
thanks a lot jim smile
i still think i still have lots to learn and i will - and you guys are just the best teachers.

manuela

_________________________
everything is always okay in the end, if it's not, then it's not the end

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#390480 - 03/24/12 04:25 AM Re: can he remember from baby times? may trigger!!!!!! [Re: phoenix321]
confusion4life Offline


Registered: 02/12/12
Posts: 109
Loc: Italy
thank you all
_________________________
everything is always okay in the end, if it's not, then it's not the end

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#390482 - 03/24/12 04:29 AM Re: can he remember from baby times? may trigger!!!!!! [Re: Avery46]
confusion4life Offline


Registered: 02/12/12
Posts: 109
Loc: Italy
thank you for your answer avery!

it helps me understanding better and thanks a lot for the compliments you made me, but i really think the least i can do now is to help her becoming ok from the shit which has been put into this innocent and trusting child of mine.

manuela

_________________________
everything is always okay in the end, if it's not, then it's not the end

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#390483 - 03/24/12 04:31 AM Re: can he remember from baby times? may trigger!!!!!! [Re: Still]
confusion4life Offline


Registered: 02/12/12
Posts: 109
Loc: Italy
thanks a lot robbie smile
feels good to get compliments! thanks a lot!

manuela

_________________________
everything is always okay in the end, if it's not, then it's not the end

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#392212 - 04/04/12 07:51 PM Re: can he remember from baby times? may trigger!!!!!! [Re: confusion4life]
pat8 Offline


Registered: 08/01/11
Posts: 18
I have memories of some things when I was less than one year old. One of my brothers does too. My parents confirm. My other two brothers do not remember much.

The key to remember is that we talked about those memories when we were little kids, then teenagers, then adults. Because we kept telling each other our childhood stories, we kept them alive in your memories.

If one keeping recalling the memories of something that happened, one will remember them.

I do not know about 3mo old, though. However, your husband could have get his age mixed up(he could have been older), but remember some of the facts. Something so strong as what he is saying can have a very lasting impression in one's memories.

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#392589 - 04/07/12 01:38 AM Re: can he remember from baby times? may trigger!!!!!! [Re: pat8]
traveler Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/07/06
Posts: 3322
Loc: somewhere in Africa
i just recovered a memory from 1 yr. 5-6 mo.
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As my life goes on I believe somehow something's changed
Something deep inside...
I've been searchin so long to find an answer
Now I know my life has meaning
Now I see myself as I am, feeling very free...
When my tears have come to an end I will understand
What I left behind: a part of me. Chicago


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#392632 - 04/07/12 10:27 AM Re: can he remember from baby times? may trigger!!!!!! [Re: confusion4life]
whome Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/07/11
Posts: 1734
Loc: Johannesburg South Africa
Hi Confusion.

Sorry but I cant get this out of my mind.
There are so many things wrong here on so many levels.

First and most important, IS YOUR DAUGHTER SAFE. and Is she receiving therapy for the horrors that happened to her. I dont know the age but no matter it is a horrible happening.

Secondly
Your Husband was abused, no doubt, even if he just witnessed this happening to his sister it is abuse, it would have hurt him just to watch. I have a friend that was never physically abused but would from a very young age watch his parents have sex and later on watched his father and girlfriend have sex while his mother watched.
Today he has terrible alcoholism drug addictions and sex addiction. So from what you told your Husband was abused.

Please make sure your daughter is safe, first.
Your husband is confused, so although one can't remember abuse from as young as 3 months, he may have seen other children abused and so remembers this as his own abuse.

Both need therapy, and soon so please make sure that they get help.

Heal well
Martin
_________________________
Matrix Men South Africa
Survivors Supporting Each other
Matrix Men Blog

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#392754 - 04/08/12 03:50 PM Re: can he remember from baby times? may trigger!!!!!! [Re: whome]
confusion4life Offline


Registered: 02/12/12
Posts: 109
Loc: Italy
dear martin,

thank you for your answer. yes, my daughter is safe from the minute onwards that she told me she has been only safe, and yes, the other children are safe too. HE stays at a different flat and had no contact to any of the children alone or without me. my daughter wished to contact him three times until now, because she wanted to tell him how shit she felt when he abused her. the kids are safe. i got a court order which restricts him to even come near the house or any of us. any contact has to come from us or there is none. my daughter is 15 and she is a really strong small personality. she just agreed to go for one therapy session because i persuaded her to do that for the past few weeks. it was very difficult to make her understand that t is not for crazy people but just for people who dont want to go crazy.

i helped my husband to get into t but the therapist is...no words for him. he told him he is a genetical failure and he cant change anything about that. i am now helping him to find a new one because that t is useless. otherwise i am there for him as much as i can and as much as my daughter wants me to be. he is a survivor and thats the only reason i am still there for him. he stays like 1 km away, so its not too far, but he only gets my time after all the kids are ok and i find time for him. i am trying my best to support him and its not easy after what he has done. he has nobody else and i am all he got. i dont know about later, but for now he needs me.

thanks for your concern regarding the kids!!
manuela
_________________________
everything is always okay in the end, if it's not, then it's not the end

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#392759 - 04/08/12 04:12 PM Re: can he remember from baby times? may trigger!!!!!! [Re: peroperic2009]
confusion4life Offline


Registered: 02/12/12
Posts: 109
Loc: Italy
lol pero, thanks for this really nice post! and also thank you from my heart for all the other help you have already given me.

manuela
_________________________
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