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#389640 - 03/17/12 11:52 PM To be Honest
whome Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/07/11
Posts: 1734
Loc: Johannesburg South Africa
My wife has thrown me out the house because I lied to her about another woman. I have difficulty telling her the truth about anything. For the past year I have prefered spending time on Male Survivor and Matrix men to sharing myself with her and my daughter. It avoids us having a fight.

I did try healing our relationship by buying her a bunch of flowers and having the odd conversation, I even took her on holiday. While I am been honest I have no desire to make love to her, even though she is slim and sexual, and I have told her this. What more does she want? After her rape in January I tried to get her to prosucute and she wouldn't so I just left her to do her own thing.

Ladies please tell me what do woman really want out of a marriage. How do they expect to be treated?

Heal well
Martin



Edited by whome (03/17/12 11:57 PM)
_________________________
Matrix Men South Africa
Survivors Supporting Each other
Matrix Men Blog

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#389658 - 03/18/12 12:55 AM Re: To be Honest [Re: whome]
Disappointed Offline


Registered: 08/11/09
Posts: 540
Loc: U.S.A.
I can't answer that, never having been married.

I will say, John Gray's books, several titles, with "Mars" and "Venus" in the titles, I've found helpful.

Good luck.
D.

_________________________
Female.

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#389674 - 03/18/12 07:13 AM Re: To be Honest [Re: whome]
phoenix321 Offline


Registered: 09/26/11
Posts: 912
Loc: USA, FL
Originally Posted By: whome


After her rape in January I tried to get her to prosucute and she wouldn't so I just left her to do her own thing


perhaps do for her what you're doing for all those guys in your matrix men groups? albeit you give her way more time. it's up to her to prosecute not you. it is up to you to be her counsel in her time of need as she was to you. even if she wasn't there or the marriage is over, you owe it to her to be her counsel. right? all you can do is try. if she refuses, keep trying till and let her know she can talk anytime she is ready. make sure your daughter understands this too. i'm sure your cheating hurt her so offer the same counsel as a dad would and should. isn't that what jesus will tell you to do?

_________________________
Phoenix

A guy opens the front door and sees a snail on his doorstep. He picks up the snail and throws it across the street in a neighbor's yard. A year later, the guy opens the front door and the same snail is on his doorstep. The snail says, "What the f*ck was that about?"

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#389677 - 03/18/12 08:07 AM Re: To be Honest [Re: phoenix321]
Dar Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/15/11
Posts: 170
Loc: Missouri
Martin, I tend to agree with Phoenix on this. First off, your wife had to and still is going through the pain of your acting out. Second, her body and soul has been raped by another man.
I could be wrong but IMHO she may not trust any man right now and wants all of them far far away from her.
This isnt much different than our situations and what we are going through in our lives.
Some of us need time to be alone and work things out in our minds so that we can recover. But at the same time we need support and a shoulder to lean on too.
Maybe this is what she needs right now at this point in her life, she has gone through and is still in a living Hell.

I once told my wife to go if it would help her feel better and I truly meant it. I would have never of just let her disapear out of site and forget about her. But would have instead been supportive of her and helped in any way that I could have to show her how much I loved and cared for her to regain her trust in me.

Seperation isnt always the end of the road my friend, sometimes we all just need our space to think without Disruption. Then we can move forward with or without.

Love has concord many a mountain sir.

_________________________
All I ever wanted was a hug.

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#389678 - 03/18/12 08:41 AM Re: To be Honest [Re: Dar]
GoodHope Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/05/11
Posts: 415
Do you still want to be married to her?

_________________________
Wife of a survivor

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#389703 - 03/18/12 01:51 PM Re: To be Honest [Re: whome]
lucylives Offline


Registered: 04/07/11
Posts: 363
Martin,

I am sorry your wife threw you out. That must really hurt.

Is there a reason you chose to share your life with only the men and women on here and in your group rather than your wife?

Maybe that makes her feel very lonely. It would me. When you say you had the odd conversation with her about things, what does that mean?

You also say you find your wife attractive but don't want to have sex with her. That is very confusing. I don't understand. Are you afraid of her and/or intimacy?

Do you not feel safe with her? It sounds like you have kept her at a distance i.e. not sahring, not wanting to be physically intimate. What makes you keep distance?


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#389707 - 03/18/12 02:53 PM Re: To be Honest [Re: lucylives]
whome Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/07/11
Posts: 1734
Loc: Johannesburg South Africa
Thank you all

She stood by me during my drinking, porn addiction, internet dating, sports addiction, she made me watch an Oprah show that started my healing, she found a therapist in town that specialises in CSA. So she has helped. But now she is saying she needs to be nurtured and taken care of. I don't think I can do that.

I tried for about a week last month to talk to her in the evenings, but she was short with me. So I gave up. I bought her flowers on the 13th Feb, and got her a card for valentines, didn't fill it in though.

I don't share with her because I don't think she is interested.

I don't want to have sex because it has been easier to use porn.

I am at the point that I want to follow my passion for helping other people and if I want to be on the computer from 6 in the morning till 12 at night I don't want the wife asking for family time. I also feel that she needs therapy and has to understand that Male Survivor and Matrix Men are my only priority. I will not be told to only do this in times that suit her. I want to take control of my life and don't want her dictating what must be done. She had the cheek to say that this is like just another addiction.

I don't know if she will come back with those conditions but its worth a try. I married a woman who looked after me and now wants looking after, I don't understand it.

Martin

_________________________
Matrix Men South Africa
Survivors Supporting Each other
Matrix Men Blog

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#389756 - 03/19/12 01:15 AM Re: To be Honest [Re: whome]
phoenix321 Offline


Registered: 09/26/11
Posts: 912
Loc: USA, FL
Originally Posted By: whome
I don't share with her because I don't think she is interested.

I don't want to have sex because it has been easier to use porn.

I am at the point that I want to follow my passion for helping other people and if I want to be on the computer from 6 in the morning till 12 at night I don't want the wife asking for family time.


I, I, I, I, I ...

Gee, does that sound familiar, Martin? Jesus, pal, let's look at your words here. Picture your best friend saying this to you about you: "If my ass wants to be on the Internet 'helping' people 24/7 and not my family, my ass is doing it, baby. Your needs gonna have to wait till when I get damn good and ready....I HAVE SPOKEN!" I'm not telling you what to do, pal. But, don't you sound like you are all involved with just yourself? Self-love, the all natural opiate. "Gotta do what I wanna do first then I'll do what the little woman wants me to do. In fact, why is that little woman suggesting anything thing in the first damn place, you dig? I might be a cheating, porno addicted sports nut, but, damn, baby, my ass watched Oprah and got help! What the hell do you want? My time? My time is valuable. I spend 18 hours a day helping guys I don't even know with all their child rape shit. I ain't got no time for you or my daughter. Hell, I ain't got no time for me..."

Self-love, the all natural and all powerful opiate. Martin, it feels good, don't it? Of course, she didn't throw me out the house. Heal well.

You can laugh a little dude.

_________________________
Phoenix

A guy opens the front door and sees a snail on his doorstep. He picks up the snail and throws it across the street in a neighbor's yard. A year later, the guy opens the front door and the same snail is on his doorstep. The snail says, "What the f*ck was that about?"

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#389763 - 03/19/12 04:48 AM Re: To be Honest [Re: phoenix321]
peroperic2009 Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/09/11
Posts: 3609
Loc: South-East Europe
Hey Martin,
sure you have been honest. And really there are many signs that your relationship is in crisis. Even those I, I, I sentences are clear sign of poor communication between you two.
No sex life is first and strongest sign, I'm sorry, we can look for different reasons but if there is no passion and sharing of intimacy between partners there is big obstacle as this one which have to be properly addressed in first place.
Secondly I like the way you've told us what are your interest. It would be great that your wife is supportive there but also same goes to you giving her some attention.
It would be great if you could think about your marriage and think what would you like to be and what you would like to act in it.
Not the things that are expected from you as husband to do (flowers for example) but what you as man would like to get from it. Is is support in your work, is it sex, are those small talks in the morning? What do you miss the most?
And you have to set those as your goal. Mutual understanding is crucial and I'm afraid that disappeared at the moment. It seems that all energy is invested in setting some conditions and that is not love and that is not productive at least.

The lack of intimacy is something that is impossible to recover outside of relationship and if there isn't some I'm afraid that base is missing for upgrade. Is there a way (and will) to gain that again, can you think more about that?

Pero

_________________________
My story

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#389778 - 03/19/12 09:45 AM Re: To be Honest [Re: peroperic2009]
Castle Offline


Registered: 10/03/09
Posts: 730
Loc: NJ
I would agree with Phoenix.

There has to be some balance to recover and to family time for sure.

No relationship survives recovery, they change because of it. Some change for the better some for the worse.

Is time with your daughter less important than helping people on MS?...that makes me really sad...I would seriously talk to T about this, and MS can def fill an void to other addictions.

two other thoughts.

1) I have read mention and the reasons you prefer a fit and trim wife, but if she worked hard to fit that mold for you and your now still rejecting her...what message does that send her about her body image ect.

2) Your wife went through a great trauma of her own recently, maybe she needs your time and support and some of the roles have reversed in your relationship, but she also needs support while your supporting "strangers".

It's easy to get lost in helping others as a way not to look at our own shit. Defelecting our own stuff to focus on others when were in crisis might not be the best advise.

I wonder how long you'll talk to a survivor to get through, while you gave your own relationship a week of trying and then gave up...you deserve more, your wife and daughter deserve more...Consider what you wrote about wanting to support others when there are people at home waiting for your love and attention.

_________________________

My posts can self destruct at any time..read them while you can.

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#389786 - 03/19/12 01:07 PM Re: To be Honest [Re: Castle]
mmfan Offline


Registered: 09/25/11
Posts: 114
Married woman here, and CSA survivor. I went through a time in healing when I had little to give to a spouse. Healing took all my energy, and I spent a lot of time online devoted to it. My spouse's demands felt, well, demanding. For the 1st time I was doing something good for me, and I was unwilling to sacrifice that.

Also...I was afraid of real intimacy, using the computer as an escape and a shield. I didn't want sex either, citing his weight and various issues. It was easier to feel close to (and attracted to) friends outside the marriage because I wasn't bound to them, was free to leave, was under no expectations/obligations.

Also around the same time, something bad happened to my spouse that required he turn to me for support. (Sound familiar?) I felt overwhelmed, and burdened. He was my "rock," now my "rock" was needy and vulnerable and demanding. This wasn't the deal I agreed to! It didn't compute. The scared child inside of me needed a caretaker figure, and I resented him turning the tables.

Yet...I found it in me to support my online friends, and devoted a large amount of time and energy to them. Why? They "got" me, and made me feel seen and heard. My husband (even while playing the role of the "rock") didn't bother to learn about CSA, "Allies in Healing" sat unread on the shelf. So while I wasn't giving him much, he wasn't meeting my needs either. I felt alone and misunderstood.

I suspect a similar situation with you. Does your wife truly understand your "world" and whats going on with your healing? Does she know what you want most in the world, your hopes and fears? Do YOU know what's in her mind as a person, as a woman, with her rape, her relationship, HER hopes and fears? Or have you both shut down and stopped talking? Its not uncommon for us survivors to marry someone with similar intimacy issues. Healing demands that BOTH parties tear down walls, and your wife may be hiding behind hers.

Without physical or emotional intimacy, you have little to lose. Why not experiment? Start expecting more from the relationship, see if it can withstand the test? If not, your free to walk away, and you will likely have learned a thing or two about yourself.

Why not hold your wife to the same standard you hold your survivor friends? Expect her to be your friend and peer, to listen and SEE you as a person. Why not open up to her in the radical way you've opened up here and in your Matrix men groups? See if she can tolerate the real you.

The question is, are you willing to take a risk, and try something new, in a relationship with new "rules"? You mention the word caretaker. Roles are limiting - not just to the person in the role, but to us as well. If she's the "caretaker" then that cuts YOU off from the caretaker/protector inside yourself. You're currently expressing this part of yourself through your men's groups, which is great -I wonder if this part of you needs expression in your intimate life as well- as a husband and father?

My advice is to tear it all down to the foundation Martin and face your fear. Will happen if you turn off the computer and face your wife as a person, messy, needy, demanding, angry, scared, vulnerable? Will you be consumed and overwhelmed by it?

This isn't meant to be a pep talk -as I don't like telling people what to do with their marriages. Maybe youre in a place that's incompatible with marriage. That's not wrong. No matter what, you need to put yourself first. I just know that fear of intimacy masquerades as a lot of different things, and walking away from your marriage now could be a self-destructive fear-based act, one with permanent consequences. It is not easy to find a loyal loving partner who accepts our wounds.


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#389841 - 03/19/12 07:54 PM Re: To be Honest [Re: whome]
herowannabe Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/01/11
Posts: 386
Loc: USA
Quote:
Ladies please tell me what do woman really want out of a marriage. How do they expect to be treated?


Wow.
The polar opposite of how you are treating your wife.

I live thousands of miles from you, but even I could send your wife flowers. Did you hand them to her on your way to the computer?

Having the "odd" conversation? Not sure what that means, but if your wife is asking to be nurtured, I think she's looking for more than chit-chat.

The holiday is great, but were you there???

If you love your wife, you have to love her more than anything else- including everything that you prefer to do. You say she has been your support through a whole lot of crap that hurt her terribly. Your actions raped her heart. Before she can even recover from that, another SOB raped her body. And you continue to lie about this other woman you referred to. And you choose to make MS and MM your life partner. And you seem genuinely confused as to why she wants you gone???

There is love out there for your wife. There is someone out there who will cherish your wife and daughter. There is a man out there who will nurture and protect and hold your wife until she is strong again. There's a man out there who longs for a loyal, generous, loving woman to share his life with.

Will you be that man?

Please God, send this woman a hero.

_________________________


For I know the plans I have made for you. Plans to give you a future and a hope. Jeremiah 29:11


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#389860 - 03/19/12 10:42 PM Re: To be Honest [Re: herowannabe]
phoenix321 Offline


Registered: 09/26/11
Posts: 912
Loc: USA, FL
Hero and Mmfan,

Martin's attitude toward his wife expressed in his posts reminds me of my no-good, abusive, self-centered cheating whore monger jerk "father." Martin's wife was right on the money throwing him out. CSA didn't do all that to Martin. Truth is, with anyone, they do it because they want to. I've known plenty if CSA survivors over the years that didn't cheat on their wives/husbands and were decent people. Decent with problems, but decent. Martin may think I'm being hard on him but he needs a smack upside his head. And, no woman is good enough for him with this attitude. A hooker might be. If he doesn't really change like all his bullshit he preaches to everyone else (be positive...look on the bright side...do this, do that), he's gonna be a narcissist jerk nobody wants to ever be around. Do you really want to be an old guy sitting in the bleachers hating everyone because you chose the chickenshit way out of your marriage, life?

I agree his wife needs a hero, and, I know for certain, Martin ain't gonna be it with his current me, me, me attitude. Be careful, treating your wife like shit, dude, will make your daughter hate your guts (if she already doesn't have tons of resentment and hate already). I speak from experience. I hate my sperm donor...and sometimes mom. Oh, and my sperm donor was the religious pharisee type too. You're heading down a very sad, lonely road. The money and window dressing might make it look good, but it's hell on the inside, dude. I lived through a hell like that.

My sperm donor loved to "help" anyone but me and my mom. Just like you. Oh, and he screwed a hundred or so women too. You said there were affair(s). Hope not that many. Dude, you're in a bad, bad place. It may look decent to you but you'll one day find out it really sucked when you see the destroyed lives of your wife and kid and/or see them happy with someone else.

Your wife and daughter definitely have my condolences on their loss. They deserve a lot better and I ain't talking about money and things. Sorry, dude, that's what I see and what I've seen for 40 years. By the way, it's heal or not. There ain't no middle ground. I learned that sitting in AA/NA. You're full of addictions too. The computer being the big one that is now the Matrix Men. Heal Well.

_________________________
Phoenix

A guy opens the front door and sees a snail on his doorstep. He picks up the snail and throws it across the street in a neighbor's yard. A year later, the guy opens the front door and the same snail is on his doorstep. The snail says, "What the f*ck was that about?"

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#389897 - 03/20/12 08:27 AM Re: To be Honest [Re: phoenix321]
lucylives Offline


Registered: 04/07/11
Posts: 363
Martin,

I have said this before "Why not lean on your wife and let her lean on you" rather than just leaning on people on the computer?

It is great that you want to help people on here but the only people that really matter are your wife and daughter.

You have been a hero to so many people on here. Who is their hero?

I agree with hero and I love her prayer about sending her a hero. Please let that be you!

I pray God sends us all heros. I know I need one and I want it to be my husband.

FYI, u ladies have been my heros too but I want one here with me to hold me and be my partner. Don't get me wrong, you all are a Godsend to me but I need more than computer friends and help.

Don't u, Martin?


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#389905 - 03/20/12 09:19 AM Re: To be Honest [Re: Castle]
JustScott Offline
Greeter Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 2578
You've made everything else a priority and made it clear that she is not a priority. Why would she want to stay with you? Throwing a card and flowers in her direction means nothing because the thought behind it is nothing.

If you can't order your own house, you won't be able to order another. Sideline your desire to help others for now and save your marriage. Then you truly will be able to help others, because right now, regardless of you stating that you want to help others, your actions and words make it clear you have only eyes for helping yourself.

One question to add.... why is everyone else worthy of your time and help and she is not?



Edited by JustScott (03/20/12 09:23 AM)

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#389913 - 03/20/12 09:48 AM Re: To be Honest [Re: JustScott]
Gretta Offline


Registered: 09/17/11
Posts: 239
Martin,
Take a deep breathe and do what you already know you need to do. You've given the advice a million times and ironically have been the hero of many of us (wives of survivors).

It's not easy, its F#$#! hard and that's probably why you haven't done it. Do as I say and not as I do, that doesn't help anyone. Dig deep and know she wants your honesty not your flowers or a card not filled out!

Just think of all the men you can help once you have gone through this and didn't give up or walk away. You will speaking from behind sweat and tears with a smile because you will have made it to the other side.

Much love for you Martin you have been there for me so many times now be there for your wife and daughter.


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#389914 - 03/20/12 09:51 AM Re: To be Honest [Re: whome]
G1psy Offline


Registered: 04/19/10
Posts: 13
Loc: Netherlands
Ladies please tell me what do woman really want out of a marriage. How do they expect to be treated?

Heal well
Martin


Try the basics:
respect, intimacy, humanity, love.
What a kid needs growing up, to thrive in his or her life. And grown ups to!

Concepts that might be very well alien to someone with PTSD-C!

You can break these concepts of respect for instance down, to what they mean to you. When you break them down, you are left with values. Things that you hold dear in life. Building blocks to build you life upon. All the rest is bullocks.

Either you respect, or don't respect someone. Lies corrupt this concepts to nothing.
Flowers, hollidays, chocolates, what ever, means nothing without it.
Just hollow without the company of respect, emotional attention, love etc.
I presume things you didn't have growing up yourself. That is a sad thing.

I consider these the buildingblocks of all healthy human interaction.

Heal well Martin
Gipsy


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#389918 - 03/20/12 10:23 AM Re: To be Honest [Re: whome]
herowannabe Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/01/11
Posts: 386
Loc: USA
Quote:
CSA didn't do all that to Martin. Truth is, with anyone, they do it because they want to. I've known plenty if CSA survivors over the years that didn't cheat on their wives/husbands and were decent people. Decent with problems, but decent.


Thanks for this reminder, Phoenix.

I believe that a boy's emotional and sexual maturity can be short circuited by sexual trauma/abuse. Furthermore, I can see how the lack of healthy, mature coping skills can cause a survivor to develop unhealthy, addictive and abusive behaviors/attitudes. But, I can NOT fathom those sick behaviors/attitudes continuing after disclosure and therapy begins. A slip, perhaps, but a way of life? Huh-uh!

Part of being good support is knowing when you're just being used and abused. We supporters struggle to determine if we are a treasured blanket our husband will tenderly cling to during their recovery, or if we are merely a doormat on which to deposit the filth of where he's been, only to be kicked out of his way so he can head right back there again.

It appears Mrs. Whome has determined her purpose in Martin's life.

Save yourself, Mrs. Whome. You've been a hero for him long enough. He's choosen another addiction, one he call's "helping others". It must be excruciatingly painful to see how badly he wants to "help" people who've not done a thing for him, while you, the one who has sacrificed SO much, is ignored, patronized, insulted and sits bleeding to death. That is not your fault, my sister. You are worth so very much more than that! One day, you're going to know that's true.

Godspeed, sister...

_________________________


For I know the plans I have made for you. Plans to give you a future and a hope. Jeremiah 29:11


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#389919 - 03/20/12 10:33 AM Re: To be Honest [Re: Gretta]
peroperic2009 Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/09/11
Posts: 3609
Loc: South-East Europe
Dear friends and Martin, I just need to tell something.
Martin is true hero and if I'm not wrong he is finally doing something that he likes the most.
He has expected some support from his wife doing so and that hasn't happened.
He also has said that his wife needed some help and she has fallen in some denial and fighting with him at same time.
Also his insecurities and not telling complete true to her (even he hasn't had real reason not to tell true) also means that there were some expectations and conditions set in first place. It is difficult to live like that (at least form me would be like that).
So at the moment they both are in some retreat and dealing with self.
Intimacy and connection has gone for some time. They both are equally responsible for that, it is immature to put blame at just one side. They both have done that.
That has noting to do with Martin's need to help others and etc. Thing that he is doing are good and they are certainly not addictions nor could be bad, not in this universe...

I was in similar position couple years ago and I know how difficult must be when two stubborn are met in some fight, than every opportunity is good reason for attack, it is place called hell.
It is not question what actions are in which order and by whom set as priorities, reasons also are not important there. Those are just fighting remarks of offended partner. And in some fight we don't chose weapons but we go with everything that is accessible...

Important questions here (at least for me) are:
Is there any energy left for constructive approach, not for destructive - by both sides?
Is there enough good will left to start something from zero level by both sides?
Is there any recognition and understanding left in both of them for other side?

I'm sorry Martin if I was too open and in some way rude by speaking about you and your wife, I've needed to tell this because off debate that has started!

Be Well!




_________________________
My story

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#389958 - 03/20/12 07:10 PM Re: To be Honest [Re: peroperic2009]
Esposa Offline
F&F Greeter
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/19/11
Posts: 703
Loc: NJ
Ouch all around.

I have to say something from experience... and take some responsibility. From what I see, many survivors end up married to very similar fixer type women. We fix. It's what we do. Even when we can't fix it, we certainly will stand by and make ourselves 100% codependent. I did this for 15 years for my husband.

But when I fell down, and had to tend to my own wounds, my own troubles, he had an affair. He wasn't acting out - he was going elsewhere to have someone mother him. Make him feel important. And he certainly resented me for it.... sound familiar?


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#389974 - 03/20/12 08:48 PM Re: To be Honest [Re: Esposa]
lucylives Offline


Registered: 04/07/11
Posts: 363
I love the whole hero thing. No man is a hero to his wife if he totally disregards her feelings.

It is great to be a hero and save the world but if you can't be a hero to your own family, you are missing the boat.

My husband has always been everybody's hero but mine. do I respect him for that? hell no. If you aren't a hero in your own home, you aren't a hero at all. If you can't be a hero to those who truly love you, want you and need you, you aren't a hero.

Sorry. I am a little bitter tonight.


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#389977 - 03/20/12 09:06 PM Re: To be Honest [Re: lucylives]
Esposa Offline
F&F Greeter
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/19/11
Posts: 703
Loc: NJ
Lucy please don't get me started wink


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#390262 - 03/22/12 08:05 PM Re: To be Honest [Re: Esposa]
Jim1104 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/16/11
Posts: 410
Loc: Louisiana, USA
Martin:

You have done great things for others. Now, you have a choice. You can choose to stay and support your wife or let her find the supportshe needs elsewhere. Love and marriage are about support and compromise. She supported you. She deserves the same from you. You have it in you, the question is what do you want?

Love her. Don't treat her as if she does not matter. Same with your daughter.

_________________________
Jim
Male/USA

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#390266 - 03/22/12 08:37 PM Re: To be Honest [Re: Jim1104]
Jim1104 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/16/11
Posts: 410
Loc: Louisiana, USA
Just a thought folks. Do not take this as disagreement with what has been said thus far, but I do wonder How our answers would be the same if we were coming from South African culture. We have answered from our cultural viewpoint. Are there differences between our cultures that might temper our statements were we South African? I don't know, but a wife should be loved, supported, cherished and given priority. A daughter also.

_________________________
Jim
Male/USA

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#390267 - 03/22/12 08:53 PM Re: To be Honest [Re: Jim1104]
peroperic2009 Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/09/11
Posts: 3609
Loc: South-East Europe
Don't worry Jim,
it looks that there are many similarities between two cultures so answers would be more or less the same.
But I've checked how is everything at Martin's blog and here are some news from him:

Hi Guys

I have been off line for a while and I am sorry about that. Internet, great when it works and a real bitch when it doesn't.

It is going well with me and the progress of life is interesting. I feel that my CSA issues are slowly falling behind me and that I am finally Able to move on and lead a "normal" life. The wife (now estranged) doesn't fell this of course but I have come to the conclusion that this is her healing path, she needs to deal with this.

Well Guys I will try and keep you all more up to date in future, hoping that the internet provider will keep my line working.

Heal well all
Martin

http://matrixmensa.blogspot.com/p/how-i-feel-today.html

How about to give him some support there?
Pero


_________________________
My story

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#390303 - 03/23/12 04:15 AM Re: To be Honest [Re: whome]
whome Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/07/11
Posts: 1734
Loc: Johannesburg South Africa
Hi all

I am truly sorry for this, but these posts have not been mine. I have been out of the house for a month now and have had no Internet connectivity.
My wife hijacked my account and posted all of this.

I do however recognize that she has done this from a standpoint of hurt and pain. I am not upset with her or any of the responses I have read thus far.

Just to clarify. I HAVE NOT HAD AN AFFAIR, OR CHEATED ON HER AT ALL. This affair story stems from a girl that I am counselling for AA. I have terminated the sessions.
I have been "faithful" to my wife for 20 years, bearing in mind the porn and online dating addictions, but have never physically cheated on her.

I want to apologize for her indiscretion, it was a little disingenuous to pose as me in a post, but it has given me insight to how she feels at present.

Thanks all for responding, I will after this event change my password so as to prevent any further hijacks and character assassination attempts.

Chat soon all

Heal well
Martin (The real one)

_________________________
Matrix Men South Africa
Survivors Supporting Each other
Matrix Men Blog

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#390327 - 03/23/12 08:52 AM Re: To be Honest [Re: whome]
herowannabe Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/01/11
Posts: 386
Loc: USA
Again...wow...!

There are so many rich lessons in this! Where to begin?

First, I am so relieved that Whome, the beloved champion of survivors AND supporters, is NOT the fraud I was introduced to in this post! Whew!

I desperately seek SURVIVORS at MS in order to contrast them (you) with the VICTIMS and the ABUSERS as I gauge my husband's recovery. The trauma of his infidelity (which lead to the discovery/disclosure of his CSA) left me stripped of trust in my own judgement and perception of everything- but especially in regard to my understanding of the one person I thought I knew best. As I rebuild trust in my own ability to assess his recovery, the men of MS are my "flashcards". If I hold up a "Whome" flashcard and compare it to my beloved, I see similarities. Because I perceive and judge Whome to be on a healthy, honest, mature, loving path to wholeness,seeing what you model being modeled in my beloved helps me to trust the path he is on, and gives me hope and assurance that he has left behind the "victim" and "abuser" he was, and is a true survivor. If he is a survivor, I am safe to continue to support him; I am safe to trust in the future of our marriage.

With this fraud "Whome" post, you became, to me, the dangerous SOB who had deceived me for so long. You were revealed as an abuser- FAR from a survivor. Because "you" had shown me that, once again, I can not trust my judgement or perceptions, darned near the entire system of confidence and trust in my husband I'd built collapsed. If I could have been so wrong about Whome, then I am likely wrong about my husband; therefore, I am in danger!!! I hit the brakes, pulled tightly around me my "all-these-men-are-dangerous-pigs" armor and went into a bit of a tailspin. It took me a couple of days to separate my beloved from the "pack of dogs", and refocus on the very real changes he's accomplished. I'm sure I'm using too many words, as is my handicap (sorry), but this situation, though it was a HUGE trigger, provided a valuable lesson for me!

That having been said, I'm glad you are still you, Martin! smile

Now, more importantly,...how to help your howling-in-pain, suffering wife...? Your kind and gentle reflection on her actions are validation of your healing and growth. Truly, a victim of CSA can't become a survivor unless he/she can empathize lovingly with another's pain. Your comment above exemplifies your capacity for compassion! I have confidence in you, Martin, that you will see her "portrayal" of you for what it truly is: a call for help and a roadmap for what she desperately needs from you.

Ironically, as all of this unfolded in the background this week, some of the MS wives revealed amongst ourselves the ways we had "lost our minds" in dealing with the blows delivered by our husbands. We each revealed actions we'd taken that were fueled by the deepest rage and most profound pain we'd ever, EVER experienced. We agreed that we are ashamed of the things we did in response to that fury, and wholeheartedly shared the fact that our mental state, at that time, was positively terrifying to us (my eyes fill with tears as I remember being taken over by an insanity that left me physically sick and completely exhausted). If it will help your beloved, I am happy (though not proud) to tell her of the things I did, so perhaps she will come to understand her actions in posting as you, do NOT define her, but are merely a symptom of her very real pain.

So much more...! Such valuable lessons learned because of this! Thank you, Martin. Thank you, Mrs. Whome. May God allow you both a measure of comfort in knowing how you have unwittingly helped another suffering soul gain further understanding on the path of recovery. May you be healed a hundred fold!

With Compassion, Love and Relief-
herowannabe

_________________________


For I know the plans I have made for you. Plans to give you a future and a hope. Jeremiah 29:11


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#390330 - 03/23/12 09:32 AM Re: To be Honest [Re: herowannabe]
Castle Offline


Registered: 10/03/09
Posts: 730
Loc: NJ
we try not to compare survivors, thier stories, their recovery...all roads are different....different time frames..differnt destinations ect.

I hear what you said about not trusting yourself, but caution judging progress based on others progress...survivors live the game of snakes and ladders.

Any other thoughts I'll let go, as they wont be appreciated smile

Whome,

U both are working through some serious trust issues and hurt...I still hope in all this you are able to be a dad to your daughter, and be there for her even if your not living in the home. She should be one of your main priorities, before the web and others even at AA.

_________________________

My posts can self destruct at any time..read them while you can.

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#390345 - 03/23/12 10:34 AM Re: To be Honest [Re: whome]
herowannabe Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/01/11
Posts: 386
Loc: USA
Quote:
survivors live the game of snakes and ladders.



Yup! And supporters live the game of holding the ladder steady for the survivor without getting re-bitten by the snakes. smile

Whome's situation taught me that my survivor is further up the ladder than I imagined, and that there's now room on the ladder for me to begin climbing up and away from the snakes, too!

I love a lesson learned!
herowannabe

_________________________


For I know the plans I have made for you. Plans to give you a future and a hope. Jeremiah 29:11


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#390348 - 03/23/12 10:39 AM Re: To be Honest [Re: herowannabe]
Castle Offline


Registered: 10/03/09
Posts: 730
Loc: NJ
Sometimes besides our wives/partners and SO's, we need other survivors to hold the ladder for us...That's what MS has helped teach me along with my recovery friends...Its not all up to our partners to hold that ladder...its just not fair to put all that on the partner and its not sustainable in the long run...often resentment will come from always holding the ladder.

I love my wife very dearly but she cant meet all my recovery needs, she can meet a bunch of them and has, but not all of them.

Likewise, I can also help her understand best I can, but I cant do it all and be the only support she has either.

One of the reasons its crutial for ME personally, to speak to some supporters to help understand some things...I'm lucky I have a few to help me, one of them the great "Poppy"...so sad shes not here anymore for her thoughts and views.

_________________________

My posts can self destruct at any time..read them while you can.

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#390361 - 03/23/12 11:47 AM Re: To be Honest [Re: Castle]
Obi Online   content
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 1338
Loc: kansas
i know that if i was told that i was being compared, contrast, to other survivors to where i was in my recovery to theirs that i would feel even more stressed and pressured.

i got enough issues to deal with that i wouldn't need more put on me in the thoughts of having to keep up with others because they're farther ahead of me. the thought of having to rush through my recovery because i don't want to disappoint. the thought of having to tackle many issues at once, risk having a meltdown, so that i give the appearance of progressing when in reality i'm not...

no way.. not for me... that is just too much added pressure for me to deal with when i have enough already on my plate...

i'm going to stick with not comparing myself to other survivors and move at a pace that is comfortable for me...

_________________________
live another day. climb a little higher.

my story

my vlog

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#390364 - 03/23/12 12:08 PM Re: To be Honest [Re: Obi]
Dar Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/15/11
Posts: 170
Loc: Missouri
Obi, I agree that everyone has to move ahead at their pace, we are all different people with different situations to deal with.

There are no page by page or day by day CSA/ASA manuals that we can read to fix ourselfs.
There are books out there to read, but those books are a one size fits all to me.

I myself, like being compared to others that doing much better than I am because I dont see it in myself. It is nice to be compared to others like you that have been here for a while and have been so much help to others by your experiance alone thus far.
I guess it is kind of like a pat on the back that makes you want to proceed even more. A pick me up of sorts when I am down.

If it wasn't for the more experianced and devoted people on MS, like you, we beginners would have no idea what were are looking for or where to go from day one.
I would love to be one of helpful people here on MS that others can turn to someday for advise. I have a long way to go........

Thanks for your help and advise.

_________________________
All I ever wanted was a hug.

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#390366 - 03/23/12 12:28 PM Re: To be Honest [Re: Dar]
Obi Online   content
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 1338
Loc: kansas
if you're ok with it, then more power to ya. hope it helps...

i know for me it doesn't...

i know that when i first came to ms, i fell into the trap of comparing myself to other survivors here. thinking that my abuse wasn't as tragic as others. that they are sooooo farther ahead of me that i don't even deserve to talk to them, let alone them lower themselves to talk to a noob... and so on and so on that it was part of the reason i had a meltdown early when i started on ms....

i learned the hard way that i couldn't do that... that is too much pressure that i didn't need to put on myself...

yes, i may be farther along in my recovery, than other survivors, on certain issues... however, there are other issues, that i'm dealing with, that i'm waaaay back at the beginning of...

that is why i rely on so many others for support and help. i've created a support system of many people knowing that there's a diverse amount of people being able to help/support me in ways that others in my support system aren't able to and vice versa...

_________________________
live another day. climb a little higher.

my story

my vlog

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#390367 - 03/23/12 12:47 PM Re: To be Honest [Re: Obi]
Castle Offline


Registered: 10/03/09
Posts: 730
Loc: NJ
why cant you get the pat on the back without comparing and contrasting people/survivors, and where they are in recovery?

New members are very helpful to seasoned MS people...it gives us an opportunity to refresh and continue to hear the good messages we must hear over and over to get rid of all those bad messages people told us.

It sometimes allows us to talk about our story again and again until at some point we are able to say it without it destroying us in a triggery mess...that I believe is one of the "marks" or " "mile markers" of recovery, discussing our history/stories and not being "effected' by it.

everybody helps everybody...the difference I think is that many new members don't feel they have value so they cant see what they are giving back...as we "heal" we find that we are worthy and our words and stories do have meaning...we do have stuff to give to others...it can be seen time and time again in posts and I can many times read in posts when somebody goes through this change and believe the are worthy...great feeling to be part of.

_________________________

My posts can self destruct at any time..read them while you can.

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#390369 - 03/23/12 01:22 PM Re: To be Honest [Re: Obi]
Dar Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/15/11
Posts: 170
Loc: Missouri

however, there are other issues, that i'm dealing with, that i'm waaaay back at the beginning of...



That is a Terrifying thought that I have had, as I have seen others on here go through their ups and downs. The feeling of going back to the starting line would be overwhelming I'm afraid.

Thanks for your insight Obi, it is appriciated

_________________________
All I ever wanted was a hug.

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#390371 - 03/23/12 01:29 PM Re: To be Honest [Re: Castle]
Jim1104 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/16/11
Posts: 410
Loc: Louisiana, USA
Martin:

Though I am sorry your thread was hijacked, I am glad that it was hijacked and that it was not you making the statements.

_________________________
Jim
Male/USA

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#390372 - 03/23/12 01:40 PM Re: To be Honest [Re: Dar]
Obi Online   content
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 1338
Loc: kansas
Yw.

When I first came to ms i got wrapped up in how far along others were and how i wanted to be there too that i was trying to tackle all my issues at once. To be done with them as quickly as possible, to be at the other end of recovery that i saw in others. I put so much pressure on myself that i had a meltdown.

That is why i learned the hard way to not compare myself to other survivors and why i also take one issue at a time, one step at a time. That is why on some issues i am farther along than others and on other issues i am at the beginning because i haven't started on those issues yet.

_________________________
live another day. climb a little higher.

my story

my vlog

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#390396 - 03/23/12 04:34 PM Re: To be Honest [Re: Obi]
herowannabe Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/01/11
Posts: 386
Loc: USA
Hi Obi-

I understand your intimidation with being compared to another. Please know I'm not so much measuring my survivor by another's ruler. That truly would be detrimental. To clarify, I don't know what a healthy survivor of CSA looks like. However, you quickly get a better picture of true recovery by reading (eg. Evicting the Perpetrator) AND by taking a look and see at survivors here at MS. The contrasts between those stuck in victimhood versus those who are abusive in some fashion versus those who are engaged in a good recovery become crystal clear soon enough. I'm not so much sizing up my survivor in comparison to another survivor as much as I'm taking certain things I notice in survivors in which to build a "goal model" of a recovering survivor in my own head.

Does that help? Does it even make sense??? smile

Godspeed, Obi!
herowannabe

_________________________


For I know the plans I have made for you. Plans to give you a future and a hope. Jeremiah 29:11


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#390402 - 03/23/12 05:22 PM Re: To be Honest [Re: herowannabe]
Castle Offline


Registered: 10/03/09
Posts: 730
Loc: NJ
How about the survivor "recovers" without having to be sized up or measured..."Am I doing enough recovery to make my wife happy?" vs am I recovering from the abuse and what happened due in part because of the abuse and really trying to make my self better and then my relationship can and will get better with work from both partners...recovery doesn't have a time schedule or ruler to judge against...seems its just pressure/shame to prove to somebody they are getting "better" and "better" in the other persons eyes. but yea answer Obi smile

You don't get a clearer view just being here and on the internet..you get it by interacting with other men at WOR and retreats and in groups of men in real life...ask any professional the importance of MEN getting together and working together in a group...or you could read the a few of the reasons behind why the WOC decided that video chat/groups were declined at the last meeting.

_________________________

My posts can self destruct at any time..read them while you can.

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#390763 - 03/26/12 03:51 AM Re: To be Honest [Re: whome]
whome Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/07/11
Posts: 1734
Loc: Johannesburg South Africa
Hi All

Thanks for the understanding, and I apologize if we hurt anyone in anyway.

Understand that this in no way absolves me of any blame, after all where there are two fighting there are two to blame.

There are still issues that I need to resolve in my life, bearing in mind that I have been a survivor for only a year but have lived for 48. It will take time to resolve the issues that I have developed as a coping mechanism in my life, these will not disappear over night, but what is important is that I am aware of them, and that I deal with them as they arise.

Life after recovery is great, but not without its issues, but this does not mean that we should give up hope.

Thanks again all for your understanding.
Love to all

Heal well
Martin

_________________________
Matrix Men South Africa
Survivors Supporting Each other
Matrix Men Blog

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#390772 - 03/26/12 05:17 AM Re: To be Honest [Re: whome]
Dar Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/15/11
Posts: 170
Loc: Missouri
There's the Martin we all know and Love.

Blessings

_________________________
All I ever wanted was a hug.

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