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#388782 - 03/08/12 09:19 PM a
lbcali1978 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/12
Posts: 217
A


Edited by lbcali1978 (04/16/13 05:55 AM)
_________________________
They said

Come home

I said

I'm confused and alone

They said

We understand

I found out they don't

I'll walk the path exactly how I've always done it

Alone

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#388789 - 03/09/12 12:12 AM Re: Did our CSA make us gay???? [Re: lbcali1978]
peroperic2009 Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/09/11
Posts: 3599
Loc: South-East Europe
Hi Ibcalli,
I presume that this will become very popular thread smile . At least recently there was huge debate on similar issue.
I don't consider my self as gay but nevertheless I have SSA (same sex attraction) and a lot of problems with my intimacy and sex life because of my experience. I can't say 100% if I'm not gay or I'm heterosexual, it is difficult for me to be so precious related to this topic. For me it was extremely helpful reading Ask the Sex Doc - part of discussion board dealing exactly with issues like your thread. I'm even considering when I'll be ready and after some deep thinking about myself to ask some question there.

As I know (and as I've read) it is not possible to change orientation because of CSA.

But we all become more or less confused (sexually) because of CSA and additionally "lost" with ourselves. That means that we use to act against true ourselves (reasons could be different) and our true orientation. We have many difficulties in seeing our confusion in this perspective.
Additionally we are just people with some limits regarding understanding ourselves and others as well. Our view on everything including sexuality is highly dependable on our cultural background and many other traits that we subconsciously apsorbed from our environment during our development. Because of that there are a lot confusions in communication relating this issue, some people (even me sometimes) are not sure what and why they are talking about sexuality. And sometimes it is it is difficult to distinguish real picture in background of such talks. I've found extremely important to understand many different things in first place to be able to discuss this matter.
For example I didn't see difference at all between sexual behavior and sexual orientation. In my "macho" culture there is no difference regarding this and actually that cultural impact additionally confused me. So I have many questions regarding myself: I've used to watch gay porn and sometimes acted as gay and because of my surrounding culture I sometimes taught that I must be gay ("one plus one must equal two"). But my feelings were completely different deep inside and that is confusion... This is just one short example. Question regarding orientation becomes multiple times complicated because of many other important factors which should be properly understood in first place.
With this I would like also to comment your line that: "some people say that CSA makes us like this".
Even in this short sentence there is huge cultural force speaking out (just my opinion) and maybe bringing huge cloud of confusion to be even ticker.
Anyway path to discover our real sexuality including orientation and all other "ingredients" is because of that extremely difficult task and hard work. We have to dig very deep inside. We have to be able to see trough many layers including this cultural one. Deep down, there is our true nature including sexual orientation buried.
I'm still confused with myself but at least I understand some causes of that confusion.
I wish this is helpful.

Pero



_________________________
My story

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#388806 - 03/09/12 06:17 AM Re: Did our CSA make us gay???? [Re: peroperic2009]
Forexpreneur Offline


Registered: 02/08/12
Posts: 141
Loc: Uranus (hell no not yours. lol...
Hey Ward. Great post and one that many question that's for sure. I think alot of CSA survivors struggle with this to one degree or another.

I was abused by both males and females. No pun intended but I got it from both ends. Oh, who am I bullshiting, pun intended. wink I tried to be straight and it just doesn't work for me. I'm not really bi either but do have a little OSA (Opposite Sexual Attraction) however it is quite minor and doesn't happen very often.

Looking back on my childhood I certainly had far more sexual attraction to the same sex and acted on that far more than not.

I believe my CSA has affected my relationships in general, not my sexual orientation. I have looked at this in depth over the last 20+ years and that is where I stand at this time. I am really convinced that I would be gay whether there was CSA or not. At the end of the day, I have to be where I feel most comfortable, no matter if CSA is the cause or not.

Alex


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#388809 - 03/09/12 06:34 AM Re: Did our CSA make us gay???? [Re: peroperic2009]
mac80 Offline


Registered: 03/15/11
Posts: 38
This is a really fascinating topic for me. I don't know the statistics or even if there is a decent study on the subject but in my experience, especially on this site there seems to be an extremely high correlation between same sex attraction and CSA among men. I think this is a question that scares some people somewhat. A lot of gay people place a lot of importance on the idea that they were born that way. This is understandable because being gay is not easy in our society, just about in any society! And the journey that people take on their way to coming out as gay is a difficult journey. After finding the inner strength and confidence to finally accept that they "just are that way", it is understandable that some people could be irritated when someone comes along and says "maybe you weren't born this way." But I've done a lot of research and it seems that nobody knows what makes someone homosexual, although there are correlations concerning genetics, birth order, and to no small extent CSA, that can make someone more likely to be gay, no one thing is the clincher. But the question that I find so interesting is:

What exactly is the mechanism whereby and disproportionate number of CSA victims develop same sex attractions? How does that work? I would really love to know and I don't think that it's impossible to know, I think psychologists could easily figure it out. It seems though, that they're afraid to, understandably. Imagine if they find that the SSA is a direct result of the CSA. Fox new would immediately be reporting that it turns out that homosexuality is a psychological disorder after all, you know? The way irresponsible people might react to the information could be quite damaging. Although I'm always of the philosophy that truth is more helpful than being in the dark.

I personally consider myself bisexual and I don't know if my SSA is a direct result of my CSA. I do know that I quite like myself the way I am and I wouldn't give up my SSA if I had the choice, even if it can be inconvenient.

I have no idea if it could be anything close to the truth, but there's an old theory that Sigmund Freud invented that went out of style with Alfred Kinsey that everyone is born bisexual and that early life experiences shape our sexuality over time. This theory explains my sexuality very well, and it seems reasonable, but it is rather out of fashion, and I have no idea whether it explains other people's sexuality as well as it explains mine. It is probably more likely that many, but not all people are born bisexual, and then many, but not all people end up on one side or another because of their life experiences. If only this topic were easy!

It can also be discomforting to think that our abuser helped to make us who we are today. It's a sad thing. We all wish that our abuser never entered our life and did what he/she did, but the fact is that they did shape our lives very much, and that many changes can not be undone, but even though our lives have been influenced by bad people, we are able to make the choices that make us good people.

Holy cow that was longwinded and started to get off topic, but I enjoyed writing it.


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#388813 - 03/09/12 07:20 AM Re: Did our CSA make us gay???? [Re: mac80]
Mountainous Buck Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/15/09
Posts: 1626
Loc: Minnesota
Sexual abuse damages sexuality and intimacy.

It is an unwelcome intrusion upon the most person, innermost, and intimate part of us.

As a young kid abused by old males, sexual abuse tangled, jumbled, confused, messed with, and diverted my earliest sexual development as well as my relationships with other males.

Combined with other abusive stuff at home, it has taken me years to shed this and crawl out of the hole I dug for myself and to reclaim my own sexuality free from the ravages of the abuse.

I've learned to experience safe, healthy intimacy on many levels in recovery: with myself, my spouse, and with other men.

Don't know if that answers the question, but no one experience "makes" me-it might strongly break me for a while, but at some point there are tools for coping with the abuse and pain that are constructive rather than escapist. And that allows me to be who I always was meant to be.

_________________________
We have to take responsibility for what we're not responsible for.

“It doesn't matter where you've come from,
It matters where you go" Frank Turner

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#388822 - 03/09/12 09:50 AM Re: Did our CSA make us gay???? [Re: Mountainous Buck]
F.A. Offline


Registered: 09/02/11
Posts: 229
Loc: United States
Originally Posted By: Mountainous Buck
Sexual abuse damages sexuality and intimacy.

It is an unwelcome intrusion upon the most person, innermost, and intimate part of us.



Confusion is the other part of being sexually abused. Confusion about what true love and intimacy is and how to express caring and love without it starting sexually.

The “Kinsey Scale,” was developed by Alfred Kinsey and his colleagues Wardell Pomeroy and Clyde Martin in 1948, in order to account for research findings that showed people did not fit into neat and exclusive heterosexual or homosexual categories.

Interviewing people about their sexual histories, the Kinsey team found that, for many people, sexual behavior, thoughts and feelings towards the same or opposite sex was not always consistent across time. Though the majority of men and women reported being exclusively heterosexual, and a percentage reported exclusively homosexual behavior and attractions, many individuals disclosed behaviors or thoughts somewhere in between.

I think you love who you love when you love them.

_________________________
F.A.

To be sick is to be fragmented. To be healed is to become whole, and to become whole one must be in harmony with family, friends, and nature" -Navajo-
Blog: http://csafresno.blogspot.com
Facebook: http://tinyurl.com/CSAFresno
My Story: http://tinyurl.com/78upvvu

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#388826 - 03/09/12 10:23 AM Re: Did our CSA make us gay???? [Re: F.A.]
westchesterguy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/13/09
Posts: 421
Loc: Westchester County NY

i'll side with a firm "no."
sexual abuse doesn't make one gay or straight.

do other things in life lead one to say -- i don't know -- enjoy sex with another guy for example? very likely "yes," as i think most here can attest.

_________________________
Jeff

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#388830 - 03/09/12 10:36 AM Re: Did our CSA make us gay???? [Re: westchesterguy]
Asmodeus Offline


Registered: 10/25/05
Posts: 112
Loc: Vestavia, Alabama, USA
No matter how much it confuses us I don't see how it can change a persons orientation.

_________________________
I may not be perfect, but at least I'm not fake.

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#388835 - 03/09/12 11:27 AM Re: Did our CSA make us gay???? [Re: Asmodeus]
peroperic2009 Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/09/11
Posts: 3599
Loc: South-East Europe
Relating to this thread I have to share one situation with all of you guys.
I have identical twin brother who went trough same abuse at same time with me by other boys when we were 5-6 years old (later actually we did some sexual things mutually to each other, actually my bro involved me more into all that mess).
Anyway my twin bro is now gay and I'm considering my self as straight.
Nevertheless it is interesting to think about reasons for such outcome (if we can say that this is final outcome - must add that I'm just started recovery and bro has done some years ago). I can't help myself not to think about that perspective. Orientation is very complex thing , what is main drive for its determination with so many factors involved?
Pero

_________________________
My story

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#389514 - 03/16/12 05:34 PM Re: Did our CSA make us gay???? [Re: lbcali1978]
AL70 Offline


Registered: 03/15/12
Posts: 4
Hi,

I'm new to this forum. I can't say for sure if our CSA made us gay. For a while i thought it did. My mother who is also my abuser has a bizarre Mother/Goddess complex. My father is a total wimp. So i fit the classic profile of weak father, domineering mother. However i have found that sexuality is a mysterious thing and does fit into a pattern. All theories have grain of truth in them, but no theory have ever been proven.


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