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#38800 - 06/09/03 06:22 PM .
jacobtk Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/08/03
Posts: 527
.



Edited by jacobtk (05/30/07 06:00 PM)
_________________________
Every day I die again, and again I’m reborn/Every day I have to find the courage/To walk out into the street/With arms out/Got a love you can’t defeat/Neither down nor out/There’s nothing you have that I need/I can breathe/Breathe now - U2

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#38801 - 06/09/03 10:14 PM Re: becoming my father
outis Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/27/03
Posts: 2260
Loc: Maryland USA
Jake,

Quote:
pretend that there is something within me that will magically prevent me from ever harming another person,
[edited by Joe (outis) because the original post was not good]

You do have your own free will. Nothing forces any of us to become a perp or any other kind of abuser.

I, too, have felt myself becoming more and more like my father. He was not a perp, but he was physically abusive and pretty much emotionally unavailable. Looking back I can see why I was looking for a father figure when I found a perp.

But I don't abuse my kids. When I got to the point last year that I realized I was starting to act more and more like my father, I began a new effort to find out why. I began working to learn new habits and ways to relate to my kids.

And if an jackass that has to get out of bed to edit his snotty reply can do it, so can you.

Later,

Joe

_________________________
"Telemachos, your guest is no discredit to you. I wasted no time in stringing the bow, and I did not miss the mark. My strength is yet unbroken…"—The Odyssey, translated by W.H.D. Rouse

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#38802 - 06/09/03 11:10 PM Re: becoming my father
ScottyTodd Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 02/12/03
Posts: 1561
Loc: Pennsylvania
Like my father? I'm not sure if my father was a perp to me BUT he was so distant, negative, wishy washy...well you know. When I find myself sounding like him, I realize that recognition must be for a reason. I have a choice and a chance to change myself. At first "like my father" scared the living crap out of me...but when I saw it more as an opportunity thane a curse, I made changes. More and more I find myself being more ME and less and less HIM.

Howard

_________________________
If you think you can or you can't - you're right!.......anon
It's never too late to have a happy childhood!.....anon
You're very normal for the abnormal situation you've been through..............S. Todd

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#38803 - 06/10/03 05:09 PM Re: becoming my father
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Sadly Howard, I find myself in the same position. It scared the crap out of me and I'm determined to be my own man.

Also, today in our group I 'pushed' one of the guys a bit when he said that "another five years, that's all I want. Long enough to see my kids grown up"
All he wanted was an 'end' to it There was a lot of other stuff as well all tied up with his abusive father, so I pushed him a bit - and pointed out that he doesn't abuse or beat his kids, he hasn't deserted them, he treats them well. So he's NOTHING like his father, he's broken the cycle. So why not stick around for a lot longer than 5 years ? beat his father, prove he's the better person.
I touched a nerve or two, but he went away thinking. I look forward to next weeks session.

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#38805 - 06/10/03 09:05 PM Re: becoming my father
outis Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/27/03
Posts: 2260
Loc: Maryland USA
Jake,

I thought I was out of line with my original reply to your post!

We have to keep this place safe for each other to come and share and sometimes vent. So if you needed to vent, well, it's better that you do it here, "where everybody knows your tagline." \:\) (Messed up the meter on that, didn't I?)

Take care,

Joe

_________________________
"Telemachos, your guest is no discredit to you. I wasted no time in stringing the bow, and I did not miss the mark. My strength is yet unbroken…"—The Odyssey, translated by W.H.D. Rouse

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#38806 - 06/11/03 01:24 PM Re: becoming my father
jimrh Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/22/03
Posts: 273
Loc: Roswell, GA
Jake,

I'd like to share a story with you.

11 years ago, when my wife was carrying our first child (we have three daughters now), I struggled with an intense pain and fear with the thought that I could not be a good father to our child and that I would hurt our child.

My father didn't sexually abuse me, but he sure as hell did physically. He did it while I was even still in the womb and tried many times to kill me. I don't know why he didn't succeed, but I do know or believe this: for some reason my guardian angel(s) proved stronger and kept me physically alive for now 43 years. My father was not a father, he was only the biological donor of DNA and the donor of funds to cloth and feed me with only the very basic level of needs (I didn't go hungry, but there was no such thing as even Pizza for me until I was a teenager). Sometimes I should write a book about it, and maybe it would make me famous like Dave Pelzer, author of "A Chiled called It". Just one more thing about my life and then I'll get to my point - my father never even to this day has called me by my name, only called me 'Boy' or 'You'. So that is the level of affirmation that I received.

When I found out my wife was carrying our first child I went into huge swings of depression. I thought for sure that I would do the same things. At times I even wanted to die so that this child would not live through what I did. Never mind that at the same time I have been dealing with my orientation and found myself attracted to a person at work and began dissacociating myself from my wife. Didn't help matters.

Just before the birth of my first daughter, I crashed big time. If I hadn't gotten so absolutely drunk that night, I probably wouldn't be here now. So I came out to my wife, almost divorced me, but somehow through therapy we/I made it through that time.

When my daughter was born, I was there. She was, and still is BEAUTIFUL. I held her and I cried. I was so intense for the first few minutes that the nurse looked at me and thought I was going to pass out. But I didn't I just held her. Held her because I knew I wasn't going to be like my father. I cried and held her because I knew I LOVED her at that very moment. I cried and held her because I saw in her face and her eyes, only innocence. I knew that at the moment I first looked at my father, I had already lost my innocence.

By the way, my wife still to this day remembers the look on my face when she was born (and the other two as well) and the fact that she had to say 'hello, I'm over here and I would like to hold my new daughter as well!'

It all became clear to me why I never felt like a kid, like I was always an adult.

Over time, it hasn't been easy, and I oftentimes loose my temper with my kids. But I do not abuse and beat them like my father did. I can get angry at them and that's ok.

Today, I'm not much better emotionally, maybe even worse off than then. I struggle now with other issues, like my SA and my orientation and whether my marriage will last. But my biggest struggle of all is each and every morning when I look in the mirror.

I see my father. It makes me naseaus. I makes me sick to the point of wanting to cut my face some times. Hell, I even get such a short haircut so that I don't see the same hair color! (I tried the hair color thing to cover the gray on the sides, but that just makes me a laughing stock with everyone).

So Jake, I hear your pain. But you can stop the cycle and you don't have to become your father. In my experience it's a constant struggle, but you can slowly have some positive wins on this.

You are yourself and you are not your father.

Peace to you.

Jim


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#38807 - 06/12/03 07:07 AM Re: becoming my father
Ivanhoe Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/19/03
Posts: 1907
We're not our fathers. We never could be.

Some great stuff in this thread. Some good encouragement. I'm encouraged.

One of the reasons that we could never be our fathers is because WE'RE HERE.
We have placed ourselves in a group of guys who are helping us--each other--to work through the difficulty--read, garbage, trash, shit--of our pasts.

One of us told a story about putting up a hoop with his son and shooting a few afterwards--that is not our fathers.
Some of us have reported playing and interacting with their kids that was loving and supportive--that is not our fathers.

I know one dad here, and I don't report this to embarrass him, but to tell you other guys how this dad was busy daddying and I happended along and ended up crying it was such a beautiful moment.

Actually, this dad was daddying his youngest daughter, and me, at the same time.

OK, OK, I'll tell the story.

I was having a pretty tough night and checked into chat. Why would anyone be there? It was some ungodly hour, but I thought that I would check anyway.

Much to my surprise there's this guy from that place where the aliens crash landed. Anyway, he starts making me feel better, not only because he is a "voice" on the other end, but he made some sense for me while we conversed.

OH, OH, he's got to check on his baby daughter, seems she's got an ear ache and he's got to do some attending.

After some minutes, this wolf returns and he's holding, or otherwise comforting his daughter. He had given her some baby preparation for her ear.

Some minutes later, I ask how she is doing.

"She's lying here next to me, asleep"

I think I said something like, "How precious."

Jimrh answered, "yes, she is."

AAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooo

_________________________
"No soul is desolate as long as there is a human being for whom it can feel trust and reverence."
George Eliot

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#38808 - 06/12/03 11:30 AM Re: becoming my father
Wuamei Offline
Member

Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 2700
Loc: The left turn I should have ta...
Jake:

Don't apologize; great thread!

Dave:

Man would I love to be in your group! But it's a kinda long drive

Jim:

No doubt my guardian angel or something or someone unknown protected me too.

My father aka biological donor aka bastard also tried to kill me not only in the womb but as a baby by hitting, shaking, choking & sexually abusing me.

He didn't even stick around long enuf to provide for me as he left before I turned 4, and didn't call me anything I can remember.

Jim you're book could perhaps be titled "A Boy Named You"; mine would be "A Boy Named Who."

That's part of why when I came to MS I used the nick Wuame = Who Am I; last name Iduno = I Don't Know.

But now my nick is Victor, for that is what I am, a victor. My father did not win.

If I were going to be like my father I would still have to be Who Am I I Don't Know, someone I don't know, becuz I never knew my father.

But now I know who I am, and I am sure not my so-called father!

Jim, like you & what you so wonderfully shared about your daughters, like in that neat story David shared about you, I am not like my father.

Friend, we have broken the cycle!

Was it scary? Yes. Is it still sometimes? Yes.

But I have two daughters, both grown now. Not only have they not been abused, both in their own ways in the work they are going into will be working with and advocates for survivors, having already done volunteer work.

Jim, we are winning, we are not our abusive fathers.

IMHO none of us have to be.

Victor

_________________________
"I can't stand pain. It hurts me."
--Daffy Duck

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#38809 - 06/12/03 12:30 PM Re: becoming my father
jimrh Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/22/03
Posts: 273
Loc: Roswell, GA
I think perhaps, given that this Sunday is Father's Day that perhaps this string of posts should be more aptly titled - The Meaning of Fathers Day to Me.

I hear on the radio about how great people's Dad was or what makes a great Dad. Sometimes I have to change the channel. Fathers Day holds no value or meaning to me outside the fact that I am a Father.

Jake, I hope some of the stuff posted here has helped you. It made me smile a bit.

David, Victor, you are inspirations. I hope to be strong one day like you guys are.

This site has meant much to me, because, this year has been a huge struggle. Without it I don't know where I'd be, but suffice to say I believe I am stronger for having known all you guys.

Peace to everyone.

Jim , aka JIMMER - (thanks to Alvin)


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#38810 - 06/12/03 01:55 PM Re: becoming my father
Wuamei Offline
Member

Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 2700
Loc: The left turn I should have ta...
Quote:
Fathers Day holds no value or meaning to me outside the fact that I am a Father.
Hey Jim that's special! You're a father. A father who has broken the cycle. A real father.

And I am stronger for having known you too Jim. Thank you.

Victor

_________________________
"I can't stand pain. It hurts me."
--Daffy Duck

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