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#387505 - 02/27/12 01:25 PM is honesty a trait in csa victims.
romancub1 Offline


Registered: 01/31/12
Posts: 19
Does the role of honesty in everyday situations/living reflect in csa victims?


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#387514 - 02/27/12 03:25 PM Re: is honesty a trait in csa victims. [Re: romancub1]
Casmir213 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/09
Posts: 845
Loc: Northeast, USA
If by honesty we're talking about revealing too much about yourself when the social circumstances does not call for it or perhaps if it isn't a safe/appropriate place to talk about very personal issues, I would think that being "too" honest (if you will) has a lot to do with being sexually abused as a child.

_________________________
I see recovery as a lifelong journey rather than a final destination, a journey, though, which can have many successes along the way.

WoR Alumnus - Hope Springs, OH, October 2009

My avatar is the farmhouse at the Hope Spring, OH WoR. It's a nice place.

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#387515 - 02/27/12 03:26 PM Re: is honesty a trait in csa victims. [Re: romancub1]
Chase Eric Offline
Moderator
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Registered: 10/25/10
Posts: 1389
Great question! I think that my CSA has actually had a positive effect in me in that area. I have always been a fundamentally honest person, and the times I have not been I have usually come to regret. Keeping my molester's secrets and hiding my own feeling of shame and complicity ran counter to my better instincts. Freeing myself of him meant I didn't have to sneak around and hide - and I was very careful to avoid situations that put me back in that position. So striving for honesty for me was equivalent to avoiding the pain of keeping secrets. I manage to be honest in most areas of my life almost to a fault - where if I find myself going down a "dangerous" road in which I might need to cover my tracks, I blurt it all out and kill any newly-germinating secrets right then and there.

But despite that, I admit a pull to be secretive in my sexual life, but I have managed to keep that in check, and regret the few times I have slipped. This may ...

***TRIGGER^trigger^TRIGGER^trigger^TRIGGER***

... my partner is still amazed that I never make a sound beyond just a quiet whimper during healthy love making. And I never, ever have - even during the natural crescendo of intensity and climax - my mouse-like silence bespeaks loudly of the dark lessons I took under the secret tutelage of my abuser - often in our basement while my parents were home, or in a tent in our back yard.

Honesty is not a simple all-encompassing definition, though. My therapist also taught me a lot about how to tell if I am honest with myself - and that is not nearly as easy as it sounds. There was an enormous amount of my past that I kidded myself about - not intentional lying but avoiding painful truths. My sister still has a lot of memory she has blocked out that *I* remember seeing and I had to sometimes tell her what I sometimes caught him doing to her. So if that falls under the category of "honesty", it definitely would be a factor as well. I am just now facing a LOT of truths about my single episode of ASA when I was barely an adult, and I am amazed at the "truths" I constructed around that - truths that were convenient but hardly true.

_________________________
Eirik




Click my pic to see why I'm here

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#387521 - 02/27/12 04:09 PM Re: is honesty a trait in csa victims. [Re: Chase Eric]
westchesterguy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/13/09
Posts: 421
Loc: Westchester County NY

childhood sexual abuse taught me how to be dishonest.

recovery taught me to embrace the truth and be honest... and speak the truth no matter how horrible it may be at first. one can be kind while being honest also, and i think that i balance that.

in my view, i find most people don't really care to embrace honesty. (i suspect 99.9999% of wall street journal posters fit that mold as they truly despise me for calling them on their dishonesty.) people can't accept the truth about this nation, about themselves, and about life in general.

more than you wanted to hear i'm sure... but i've now spoken, honestly.

_________________________
Jeff

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#387536 - 02/27/12 06:30 PM Re: is honesty a trait in csa victims. [Re: westchesterguy]
traveler Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/07/06
Posts: 3450
Loc: somewhere in Africa
For me honesty is a big issue. I have a habit of hiding or not being honest or totally truthful and open (or "lying"?) about anything that is likely to - or even that i imagine will remotely reflect upon - my worth as a person. I hide my journal and don't want anyone to see me writing in case they ask what it is. I hide the books i read in case someone makes a judgement based on the title. I hide the websites i visit - even tho they are not porn ones - because i don't want anyone to know what i'm thinking about. I can't stand to have anyone see a partially done piece of art or poem or story...

I know for me it is a self-defense strategy or instinct or reflex. Almost like i can't help it. i wouldn't say i'm a compulsive liar - it's selective and pretty much limited to anything related to either abuse or self-image. but the habit of hiding, evading and pretending is very deeply ingrained. For all my life i "had to" act like i was normal and everything was OK.

I read somewhere that secrecy (and maybe less than total honesty = lying?) are common traits of survivors of CSA - ***even when there is nothing that needs to be kept secret***!!!

Lee



Edited by traveler (02/27/12 08:40 PM)
Edit Reason: clarity
_________________________
As my life goes on I believe somehow something's changed
Something deep inside...
I've been searchin so long to find an answer
Now I know my life has meaning
Now I see myself as I am, feeling very free...
When my tears have come to an end I will understand
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#387553 - 02/27/12 09:05 PM Re: is honesty a trait in csa victims. [Re: Casmir213]
lapchinj Offline
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Registered: 06/07/11
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Edited by lapchinj (03/17/13 06:40 PM)
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#387560 - 02/27/12 10:23 PM Re: is honesty a trait in csa victims. [Re: lapchinj]
lapchinj Offline
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Loc: New York
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Edited by lapchinj (03/17/13 06:40 PM)
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#387580 - 02/28/12 04:57 AM Re: is honesty a trait in csa victims. [Re: westchesterguy]
happybuddha1 Offline


Registered: 05/19/09
Posts: 85
Loc: Michigan
Hey Jeff.....I can totally relate....always wondered if my compulsive lying came from CSA or living with alchoholic parents.....maybe both.....I have lied, (even when I do not have to) for so long, it does not even register with me as being a bad thing.......ugh

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A scared little boy who is trying to heal and feel again..

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#387582 - 02/28/12 05:36 AM Re: is honesty a trait in csa victims. [Re: romancub1]
1lifenow Offline


Registered: 03/07/11
Posts: 408
Loc: west coast
Reflect


Thats the key question, how does it reflect? Its just too opened to really asnwer. One of the guys in my group said his life is in such a state now. HONESTY well that was the thing that cracked the egg that was his life. So now he is not an omlette but just a recipe that has yet to be realized. Sort of this amorphous goop that is subject to the whims of so many forces. Guilt that has not resolved, shame that is sole scraping and fear that the omlette will never congele or will turn out to be a horrible experiment gone bad.

But what if it turns out wonderful?, the catalyst was/is honesty.

For me there was never honesty till now. Hell lies that did not have to be told would be made up on the spot. It's a survivors default- protect what is that truth that can't be told or even acklowledged to yourself. Keep it from yourself! So the role of honesty as the process of recovery rolls along becomes larger on the horrizon. Soon its at the door. Its in the room and its not going to be an invissible elephant anymore. Then it speaks and is seen and what was once a scary monolith of the unguarded truth becomes a tool. A weapon we now have instead of what can be used against us.

Does it reflect? It depends on the time the circumstance and the place we are on the road. But what was something that was once so feared for the survivor, can be and must be something to be embraced. We can own it. Honesty is the currency we suddenly find filling our larder - Guilt, shame and duty free ( ok so i am canadian, sue me i like to shop in the states,lol).


_________________________
The need for love lies at the very foundation of human existence. Dalai Lama

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#387588 - 02/28/12 07:51 AM Re: is honesty a trait in csa victims. [Re: 1lifenow]
Treehugger75 Offline


Registered: 02/08/12
Posts: 158
Loc: Ontario Canada
^^^^^^^^ WOW ^^^^^^^^

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I will never ALWAYS be right, I wasn't wrong, I am whats left.

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#387616 - 02/28/12 10:47 AM Re: is honesty a trait in csa victims. [Re: Treehugger75]
lapchinj Offline
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Registered: 06/07/11
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Edited by lapchinj (03/17/13 06:41 PM)
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#387720 - 02/29/12 01:52 AM . [Re: Casmir213]
Life's A Dream Offline


Registered: 08/25/11
Posts: 886
Loc: Bouvet Island
.


Edited by Life's A Dream (01/12/13 11:26 PM)

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#387726 - 02/29/12 03:19 AM Re: is honesty a trait in csa victims. [Re: Life's A Dream]
lapchinj Offline
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Registered: 06/07/11
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Loc: New York
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Edited by lapchinj (03/17/13 06:41 PM)
_________________________
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#399129 - 06/01/12 12:56 PM Re: is honesty a trait in csa victims. [Re: 1lifenow]
bodyguard8367 Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/16/12
Posts: 1159
Loc: ""
""


Edited by bodyguard8367 (02/26/14 06:13 PM)
Edit Reason: SILENCED

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#399157 - 06/01/12 08:20 PM Re: is honesty a trait in csa victims. [Re: bodyguard8367]
lapchinj Offline
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Registered: 06/07/11
Posts: 1227
Loc: New York
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Edited by lapchinj (03/17/13 06:41 PM)
_________________________
Stick around, It will get better....

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#399170 - 06/02/12 01:10 AM Re: is honesty a trait in csa victims. [Re: romancub1]
phoenix321 Offline


Registered: 09/26/11
Posts: 912
Loc: USA, FL
"[Everything] is true from a certain point of view." Obi-Wan Kenobi

Lawyers don't lie. They give another version of the truth to cause a reasonable doubt, which really is just plain ole fashioned confusion. -old saying

Truth is truly in the eye of the beholder. Hiding isn't lying. It's protecting. CSA really makes us confused, unsure of who we are and survivalists. Until you discover who you are and are content there, you aren't lying since you really don't know to begin with. I should've lied a lot more. If I had done so, I wouldn't be in this mess I'm in today.


Edited by phoenix321 (06/02/12 01:11 AM)
_________________________
Phoenix

A guy opens the front door and sees a snail on his doorstep. He picks up the snail and throws it across the street in a neighbor's yard. A year later, the guy opens the front door and the same snail is on his doorstep. The snail says, "What the f*ck was that about?"

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#399172 - 06/02/12 02:32 AM Re: is honesty a trait in csa victims. [Re: romancub1]
Thebo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 328
Loc: NYC
Phoenix,

I totally understand what you're saying.

Thank you.

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#399176 - 06/02/12 04:24 AM Re: is honesty a trait in csa victims. [Re: romancub1]
alex05 Offline


Registered: 05/29/12
Posts: 59
Loc: nowheresville
Phoenix - thanks for you words. I read this topic yesterday and wondered if I really am such a big liar. The reason why I´m not telling the truth is not to hurt someone but to protect myself from being hurt. I´m happy it´s not only me who feels this way.

Alex
_________________________
Why won't somebody come and save me from this, make it end. I hate what I´ve become, the nightmare´s just begun...-Skillet-

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#399180 - 06/02/12 06:03 AM . [Re: Casmir213]
Life's A Dream Offline


Registered: 08/25/11
Posts: 886
Loc: Bouvet Island
.


Edited by Life's A Dream (01/12/13 10:24 PM)

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#399233 - 06/03/12 01:03 AM * [Re: romancub1]
Smalltown80sBoy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/25/12
Posts: 2217
*


Edited by Smalltown80sBoy (04/28/13 04:37 PM)

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#399234 - 06/03/12 01:14 AM * [Re: Life's A Dream]
Smalltown80sBoy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/25/12
Posts: 2217
*


Edited by Smalltown80sBoy (04/28/13 04:37 PM)

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#399251 - 06/03/12 09:40 AM Re: is honesty a trait in csa victims. TRIGGER [Re: Smalltown80sBoy]
lapchinj Offline
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Registered: 06/07/11
Posts: 1227
Loc: New York
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Edited by lapchinj (03/17/13 06:42 PM)
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Stick around, It will get better....

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#399297 - 06/03/12 10:10 PM * [Re: romancub1]
Smalltown80sBoy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/25/12
Posts: 2217
*


Edited by Smalltown80sBoy (04/28/13 04:38 PM)

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#399307 - 06/04/12 01:15 AM Re: is honesty a trait in csa victims. TRIGGER [Re: romancub1]
lapchinj Offline
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Registered: 06/07/11
Posts: 1227
Loc: New York
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Edited by lapchinj (03/17/13 06:42 PM)
_________________________
Stick around, It will get better....

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#399375 - 06/04/12 04:01 PM * [Re: romancub1]
Smalltown80sBoy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/25/12
Posts: 2217
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Edited by Smalltown80sBoy (04/28/13 04:38 PM)

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#399376 - 06/04/12 04:57 PM . [Re: romancub1]
bardo213 Offline
Guest

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 811
.


Edited by bardo213 (06/22/13 04:16 PM)

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#399379 - 06/04/12 05:16 PM Re: is honesty a trait in csa victims. [Re: romancub1]
whome Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/07/11
Posts: 1734
Loc: Johannesburg South Africa
I have tried to stay out of this post, but hey, here I am.

Honesty needs to be the front line of recovery. I have lied to Myself, My family, My friends, and My loved ones all my life.

I lied so much that I did not even know that I was doing it. My entire life was a lie to hide my dirty secret. Today, I need to question every single thing I say, till I am confident that what I say is the truth, every word has been weighed, and is true. They are no longer fantasies, they are no longer the me that I dreamt of, but are rather the real beautiful me, the healed unafraid me.

Honesty, hell yeah.

Heal well
Martin
_________________________
Matrix Men South Africa
Survivors Supporting Each other
Matrix Men Blog

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#399417 - 06/04/12 11:35 PM Re: is honesty a trait in csa victims. TRIGGER [Re: Smalltown80sBoy]
ShortedDiode Offline


Registered: 11/26/11
Posts: 101
Loc: Hamilton, ON Canada
Originally Posted By: Smalltown80sBoy
Even as an adult I realized very quickly that no one really wanted to hear how I was - that the answer needed to be "fine" or "not too bad" or anything other than "bad" or "lousy" or "actually I'm thinking about killing myself today."

...

But most people don't want the truth. What's the line in A Few Good Men? You can't handle the truth? That's how I think most people are about the shit people like us go through. They can't handle the truth and don't want to.


I agree, people only want the truth as long as it doesn't make them uncomfortable. Get close to the edge of their comfort level or start speaking inconvenient truths and watch them abruptly change the conversation topic or get up and leave and you get in the habit of leaving anything controversial out that you know is probably going to rock the boat.

Sometimes it's hard to hold a conversation at work or with friends who didn't know me when I was younger when people start talking about their kids, or what they did when they were kids because there's not much I can really talk about without people ending up in disbelief or seriously put off. Take away the bullying problem at school, my parents thrashing and emotionally abusing the three of us at home, my grandmother playing favourites with the grandchildren and the CSA from the two perps and other stuff that happened, there isn't really much left over that's palatable to talk about. I basically gloss over the whole thing by saying my family had issues and it wasn't fun. Instead of upsetting other people, I usually end up getting upset myself as conversations go on and I find out more and more about what a ripoff childhood was for the three of us, particularly my sister and I.

Of course, the flip side to all that is being in the company of people who don't want you to tell the truth because it'd cause trouble for them. My parents, for example, fall into that category and my brother and sister and I had to paint a picture of a wonderful life at home during family gatherings under extreme duress of dire consequences later. If anything less than rosy slipped out, it'd be all smiles and happiness for the benefit of everybody else with quick scowls and hissed threats when nobody was looking until after it was over and we'd be in the car on the way home. The smiles and waves goodbye would last long enough until the car was out of sight and then the act would be dropped and the punishment would start. So my brother and sister and I started practicing heavy self-censorship one to avoid upsetting other people and two to prevent physical and emotional abuse from our parents as much as possible.

Personally, I think telling people only as much as they want to hear but no more to avoid problems carefully walks the line between honesty and dishonesty because it's a survival tactic. Like all survival tactics, I use it because I have to and not because I want to.
_________________________
If it's a choice between laughing or crying, I'd rather laugh.

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#399418 - 06/04/12 11:38 PM Re: is honesty a trait in csa victims. [Re: romancub1]
lapchinj Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/07/11
Posts: 1227
Loc: New York
Peace,Rainbows & Healing


Edited by lapchinj (03/17/13 06:42 PM)
_________________________
Stick around, It will get better....

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#399515 - 06/05/12 06:28 PM Re: is honesty a trait in csa victims. [Re: romancub1]
Blessedcurse Offline


Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 93
To me it is the oposite. I am almost never honest and when I am I feel rediculous and as if I were making things up. It is good people in my adult life who taught me to be more honest by getting upset with me when they realised I was keeping things from them (wich I did because of feeling stupid and thinking they di

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#401450 - 06/23/12 03:12 PM Re: is honesty a trait in csa victims. [Re: Blessedcurse]
Tyr Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/05/11
Posts: 180
respectfully if your wife asks if youre in the army and you say no cuz you were in the USAF... thats a lie. Even if she didnt ask the most precise manner of the question... you were in a form of the armed Forces. i dont know you dude but...really?
_________________________
Once you hear the details of victory, it is hard to distinguish it from a defeat.

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#401475 - 06/23/12 08:42 PM Re: is honesty a trait in csa victims. [Re: Tyr]
Chase Eric Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/25/10
Posts: 1389
Quote:
respectfully if your wife asks if youre in the army and you say no cuz you were in the USAF... thats a lie. Even if she didnt ask the most precise manner of the question... you were in a form of the armed Forces. i dont know you dude but...really?

Jeff and you may differ on the semantics of what a lie is but that's beside the point. The bottom line as I read it is that he felt awful about the omission and apologized to her, then came here and bared his imperfections to us. I do know Jeff since coming here to MS and consider him a close friend - in no small part because of his remarkable candor and sensitivity.
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Eirik




Click my pic to see why I'm here

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#401489 - 06/23/12 11:55 PM Re: is honesty a trait in csa victims. [Re: romancub1]
lapchinj Offline
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Registered: 06/07/11
Posts: 1227
Loc: New York
Peace,Rainbows & Healing


Edited by lapchinj (03/17/13 06:43 PM)
_________________________
Stick around, It will get better....

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#401491 - 06/24/12 12:09 AM Re: is honesty a trait in csa victims. [Re: romancub1]
lapchinj Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/07/11
Posts: 1227
Loc: New York
Peace,Rainbows & Healing


Edited by lapchinj (03/17/13 06:43 PM)
_________________________
Stick around, It will get better....

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#401588 - 06/24/12 06:19 PM Re: is honesty a trait in csa victims. [Re: romancub1]
CPT_America Offline


Registered: 06/24/12
Posts: 14
Honesty with other people: Yes, always

Honesty toward myself, regarding feelings/emotions related to being abused: DENIAL, DENIAL, DENIAL...

As one Politian said to a congressman when asked a question during a congressional hearing:
Politian, "I can't recall."
Congressman, "so are you saying you did or did not say it"
Politian, "I am saying I don't recall!"

When I first started seeing a therapist, she would ask me why I was unwilling to acknowledge being abused had any negative impacts on my life. I told her that feelings get in the way of business (at the time a good excuse in my eyes), and besides that would require me to acknowledge something awful happened and that it was my fault(so naive), and I wasn't about to do that. Years later, I came to understand that you never fault kids, when they are following an adult’s directions and started to slowly acknowledge those negative effects.



Edited by CPT_America (06/24/12 06:58 PM)

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#434922 - 05/17/13 03:03 AM Re: is honesty a trait in csa victims. [Re: romancub1]
Life's A Dream Offline


Registered: 08/25/11
Posts: 886
Loc: Bouvet Island
Honesty, to a fault, is a trait in me, anyway. I'm too honest. I have a compulsion to tell others I was abused- I'm talking about random strangers. I grew up with a compulsion to always confess to my mom every wrong thing I did. It makes me very vulnerable, because "normal people" know how to exercise discretion to protect when and where and to whom they confess their most closely guarded secrets. I'm trying to learn that. I just feel so guilty if I keep anything secret. Like my diaper fetish. I'm horribly ashamed and guilty about it, and I always regret telling people about it, because of the stigma around it. People always end up exploiting my compulsive honesty. Like others have said on here, though, I paradoxically have trouble being honest with myself sometimes.

Honesty should always be tempered with discretion.


Edited by Life's A Dream (05/17/13 03:04 AM)

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#434937 - 05/17/13 08:54 AM Re: is honesty a trait in csa victims. [Re: romancub1]
SoccerStar Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/15/12
Posts: 916
Loc: New York
No. I knew about It long enough and hid the truth from young enough that it sort of never sunk into me that hiding the truth is actually bad. And that's not even with taking into account the denial and self-deception and externalized feigned homophobia meant to cover my real orientation / desires.

My family is full of creepy secrets and I reached adulthood with one sequential disclosure after another beginning around age 15 and then rolling out one by one til well into my 30s. Secret cousin marriages, secret adoptions, secret divorces, secret Vietnam draft-dodging, secret poly "marriages", secret lifetimes on antidepressants, secret crazy relatives in a secret institution, my mother's secret twin who died at 6, secret 20-year absence for grandpa having something to do with guns in South America, and the mother(fucker) of them all, my sister secretly being the "keeping up appearances" girlfriend of one of the most notorious serial pederasts of the 1980s. Yes you have to keep track of who knows what. No none of them are ever discussed with more than 2 or 3 people at a time. So amidst all that what's a little secret bathroom sodomy? 6 months after telling my wife, parents, in-laws, and dozens of my friends, we are ALL STILL KEEPING THAT A SECRET from my sister due to her remaining loyalty to her own favorite rapist.

After my memories became real, I went through all of last November and December doing nothing at my job whatsoever. I'd read MS on my phone and find unused offices to go cry. This did not go unnoticed so I got the most dire warnings possible. I held them off with an unprecedented campaign of remorseless professional fraud, forgery, and plagiarism. I'd fake work product and add fake testimonials from fake people on how good it was and how much I improved. I deliberately added some fake mistakes in the midst of my fake successes so I could still be seen as screwing up and be yelled at in a "controlled" manner. If everyone thinks you're a bad liar no one dreams you could be a good - a GREAT one. My only honest energies went towards getting another job. I parachuted away before the timebomb of bullshit could go off.

I paid a dark price for all of my secrets but on that occasion they paid me back.


Matt
_________________________
My story

"Don't think it hasn't been a little slice of heaven just because it hasn't!" --Bugs Bunny

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#434968 - 05/17/13 02:08 PM Re: is honesty a trait in csa victims. [Re: romancub1]
Suwanee Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/30/12
Posts: 736
Loc: Southeast USA
Without getting into ontology, I don't know.

I'm generally up front with folks. I'd never dliberately lie, cheat, or steal. I once bought a bunch of outdoor plants at a nursery and got home to find they didn't charge me for several of them---about $20 worth. I went back there the next day and paid for them.

BUT,

I held a secret for years and lied at times to keep it hidden. At times I've withheld the truth to maximize my security vis-a-vis the CSA episode. Humans are apt to do such things since self-preservation presents with primal urgency.
Will


Edited by Suwanee (05/17/13 02:10 PM)
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#434973 - 05/17/13 02:19 PM Re: is honesty a trait in csa victims. [Re: romancub1]
victor-victim Offline


Registered: 09/27/03
Posts: 3362
Loc: O Kanada
i am sorry to come in so late on this thread. many posts have been edited out, so i missed a lot.

i came here to be honest.
as best as i can.

honesty
is the key
to open the door
between you and me

but i also believe what zappa says.

"information is not knowledge,
knowledge is not wisdom,
wisdom is not truth,
truth is not beauty."

the closer the truth, the sharper the sword, the deeper the cut.

i would say, i am too honest.
to be honest, i have often disclosed inappropriately (wrong reason/person/time/place). i have done it even when i knew i should shut up before i even speak up.

for that, i am truly sorry.
my story can hurt people, and i know that.
yet it hurts to keep it secret.
so i find a way to slide it into the conversation,
naturally, and find myself telling the story.
the results are not usually good.
i figure if they can't hack it, who needs them.
pretty harsh.

so here i am.
i came here to be honest.
_________________________
Victor|Victim

War
Love
Poetry

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#434974 - 05/17/13 02:33 PM Re: is honesty a trait in csa victims. [Re: victor-victim]
victor-victim Offline


Registered: 09/27/03
Posts: 3362
Loc: O Kanada
the other side.

i used to lie.
a long time ago.

i just lied.

i still lie.
but, now, i am very good at catching myself.

i lied all through my childhood.
all the way through my teens.
right up until my first disclosure in my early twenties.
i swore i would never live a lie again.
the lie lived on for many years.

my drowning/baptism/born-again/near-death experience in my late twenties fixed me up for good.
"telling the truth" became as easy as breathing.
the penalties for being blunt i considered the price of admission to the land of freedom.
the cost was no sacrifice, but a smart investment.
i believed the solitude and social stigma of brutal truth to be proper penance for years of misleading myself and others.
i had done enough damage with distraction, deception, denial, and distortion.
surely, the noble truth can do no harm.

it took me several more years to realize that "being honest" and "telling the truth" are not the same thing.

the truth is more than the facts.
the truth is a powerful tool.
the truth is an invisible shield.
the truth is a lethal weapon.
handle with care.

ahh, life's sweet lessons.
_________________________
Victor|Victim

War
Love
Poetry

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#434977 - 05/17/13 03:33 PM Re: is honesty a trait in csa victims. [Re: romancub1]
Lancer Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/13/12
Posts: 901
Loc: Florida
I had to go back and read the early posts in this thread. As victor has illustrated so well, it's not an easy answer. Will summarized nicely.

My lying was, yeah, a survival mechanism more related to an abusive household where telling the truth, even in response to an innocuous question, would have disastrous consequences:
"Did you have a good time at your Dad's?"
"Yeah, I had a great time."
"The only reason you like it there is because they spoil you!" (an angry, vicious Mommybitch rant that would then continue for days)

Regarding the CSA, when I told the truth to my high school guidance counselor ("I'm gay"), he used it as information to rape me over nearly a year.

It's taken me dozens of years to get into the conscious habit of telling the truth. It generally remains a conscious choice. Often it's not as difficult as I think, say, in recounting a personal story without embellishment. Other times it difficult, particularly when I feel some part of my survival is at stake. Even as an adult, in situations where I feel I should be able to be candid with "authority" figures, for example, I've often been disappointed, invalidated, or just plain angry that my honesty isn't respected. Therefore, I share a bit at a time, note the response and proceed from there. Simply, there are lots of people with agendas for whom honesty, exercising it or honoring it, is irrelevant.

I have a couple friends and relatives - count 'em on one hand - with whom I can be honest, even when it's hard. Most of the time that's enough. I just did it with a cousin the other day concerning his dead mother's part in estranging me from the family. He'd suspected as much...and then told me one reason I was his favorite cousin was that he could count on my honesty. Then again, we have the advantage of our respective 12-step programs. With some people I just don't care (no emotional investment) and I choose honesty, no embellishments.

Others who have violated my honesty (specifically, my trust) get cut off. Sometimes with explanation. Sometimes without, if it's clear they have no moral compass.

I think what it comes down to is determining who is worthy of my trust.

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#434994 - 05/17/13 06:03 PM Re: is honesty a trait in csa victims. [Re: romancub1]
genedebs Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/09/12
Posts: 287
Loc: MO


I never valued honesty.
It was very difficult to see it as anything but an invitation for attack. However, Since I got sober (about 20 years) I have tried to be honest. I rarely am able to be honest when I understand what happened through my delusions.

Giving up my delusions has made me feel much more vulnerable and less able to minimize the experiences and my reaction. For example, when my mother had me undress so her friend could take pictures, it is not a crazy experience. It was incestuous and resulted in pornographic pictures. But I could not have said that until I got to this site.

My therapist in 1989 told me it was incest. But until I got here I would not have called it pornographic. But, what else can it be called? Why take pictures of a naked 12 year old boy with an erection. I can no longer come up with lies I can believe.

You have heard from many of us, that we lied almost without thought, but we are trying to be honesty.

We all have different stories, and we all are just the same.

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#434995 - 05/17/13 06:38 PM Re: is honesty a trait in csa victims. [Re: victor-victim]
Life's A Dream Offline


Registered: 08/25/11
Posts: 886
Loc: Bouvet Island
Originally Posted By: victor-victim

"telling the truth" became as easy as breathing.


Heh. Funny. To quote my father's recent statement to me: "You lie like you breathe"

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