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#387121 - 02/24/12 07:22 PM Re: Can you just have a bad year? [Re: Esposa]
herowannabe Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/01/11
Posts: 386
Loc: USA
Quote:
Don't lie to protect me because you think I will think less of you.


I might humbly add:

..and don't lie to me to protect yourself because that is what will make me think less of you. And less of myself for not being worthy of your trust.

herowannabe

_________________________


For I know the plans I have made for you. Plans to give you a future and a hope. Jeremiah 29:11


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#387353 - 02/26/12 10:13 AM Re: Can you just have a bad year? [Re: herowannabe]
lucylives Offline


Registered: 04/07/11
Posts: 367
EXACTLY, Hero!!

Lying is weak and I don't want to see you that way. Men can be so confused about waht makes a man a man.


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#387403 - 02/26/12 07:08 PM Re: Can you just have a bad year? [Re: lucylives]
traveler Online   confused
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/07/06
Posts: 3513
Loc: somewhere in Africa
You cant't expect a person who has been conditioned and twisted and damaged and raised in a totally perverted and abnormal emotional and relational environment to act NORMALLY! And then when we try to ACT normal and pretend there is nothing wrong, you accuse of of deception - it's a catch-22.

_________________________
As my life goes on I believe somehow something's changed
Something deep inside...
I've been searchin so long to find an answer
Now I know my life has meaning
Now I see myself as I am, feeling very free...
When my tears have come to an end I will understand
What I left behind: a part of me. Chicago


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#387406 - 02/26/12 07:11 PM Re: Can you just have a bad year? [Re: traveler]
Esposa Offline
F&F Greeter
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/19/11
Posts: 728
Loc: NJ
Traveler - what are you responding to specifically? I am interested. Please.


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#387422 - 02/26/12 08:22 PM Re: Can you just have a bad year? [Re: Esposa]
eyesforward Offline


Registered: 03/13/11
Posts: 92
Loc: Ontario
Esposa ... here's my guess about what traveler is referring to:

To survive life, a boy who has experienced CSA has to lie. He cannot tell the truth either because of who his perpetrator(s) is/are, because the perp has threatened him, because he has a sense that his family or community won't deal with it well, because he's been told to just get over it, or one of many other reasons.

By the time that boy becomes a man, he can be extremely practiced in developing and maintaining facades, and in figuring out which facade is going to get him through a given situation.

We ask that man, "Would you just tell me the truth?" I imagine he's thinking, "What truth?" or "Why are you going to be any different from anyone else when you hear my truth? They all treated me like sh*t, I felt like a piece of sh*t after saying what there was for me to say. Why would I do that now?" We say "truth"; he hears "risk being rejected *AGAIN*."

In some ways it's like this: As a child, your husband was hit by a car, he never got physiotherapy, and his leg was injured permanently affecting his walking. Then we ask him to hurry up and walk faster, we need to get somewhere soon. Or we push him to do painful physiotherapy and medical procedures to break down years of scar tissue and rebuild. /end of analogy/

It doesn't matter how many times or for how long you or I have been trustworthy with our man; we are still up against a mountain of betrayal of trust. The man has to be ready to reclaim himself and the freedom of being truthful (that is so obvious to us).

From all I've witnessed, it's a helluva uphill climb with a heavy pack to get to the way of being and thinking where "just telling the truth" is simple. He's the one who has to do the work to rebuild, to suffer through re-experiencing the trauma in order to really, deeply, profoundly get that it wasn't his fault and that there is nothing he needs to feel ashamed about or to hide.

Bottom line: Infinitely easier for me to say than for him to do it.


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#387432 - 02/26/12 09:18 PM Re: Can you just have a bad year? [Re: eyesforward]
traveler Online   confused
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/07/06
Posts: 3513
Loc: somewhere in Africa
Sorry - i got triggered and went off because this sounded so much liek one of my conversations with my wife. She just doesn't get it and nobody can who hasn't experienced it.
She keeps saying - "But i told you everything about myself and yu hid so much and kept it secret and lied about it."
And i respond - "But you didn't have anything shameful to tell and no fear that it would make you unloved or rejeted or treated with contempt or revulsion."
And that is exactly what everyone else before has done. the people who did it, the people who knew about it, the ones who wanted to keep it hidden or pretend it had never happened... Why should i imagine that this time it will be different? it is a reflex and a lifelong habit and a survival technique to hide and deny and evade. It takes extreme mental and emotional effort and overcoming of strong resistance and almost physical exertion to break the silence and destroy the facade and become vulnerable. it is the SCARIEST thing ever -even more frightening than the original abuse for me. while i am revealing the "Truth" i shake and have a huge knot in my stomach and a pounding heartbeat and pulsing high blood pressure and shortness of breath and. And i feel like i am being stripped, exposed and held up to public scrutiny and ridicule - no matter how sympathetic her attitude or response and if it is the least bit less than totally open and positive - i shut down again and have my worst fears and assumptions confirmed...
And what truth should i tell?
The one that i lived with for decades with major holes blanked out because i didn't remember or couldn't go there? It was not possible to tell until now.
Or the flashbacks that seeme like nightmares and i sometimes wonder if it was real or my own sick imagination? how much detail? all the physical sensations every move and touch and action - the emotional and mental confusion and conflict and turmoil - or just the objective facts?
Or the truth that i just revealed to my T but is still too raw and painful to tell someone i love and want to love and accept and respect and think well of me? something that i am still trying to come to terms with and haven't yet assimilated myself? Sometimes there just are not words for it all. It's too much to handle. it is all you can do to keep functioning on a minimally routine pattern. All you can handle is to say "i'm OK - it's nothing."

This is too stream of consciousness to make much sense. I'll try later when i can think straight
Lots of what Eyesforward said is true.
Lee

_________________________
As my life goes on I believe somehow something's changed
Something deep inside...
I've been searchin so long to find an answer
Now I know my life has meaning
Now I see myself as I am, feeling very free...
When my tears have come to an end I will understand
What I left behind: a part of me. Chicago


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#387440 - 02/26/12 09:52 PM Re: Can you just have a bad year? [Re: traveler]
Esposa Offline
F&F Greeter
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/19/11
Posts: 728
Loc: NJ
Thank you for continuing and I need to hear/read those things...

Every time he has revealed any detail of his abuse, I have felt closer to him and I know he feels that - but I also see what you are talking about in that he simply cannot believe that someone would love him or accept him.


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#387446 - 02/26/12 10:34 PM Re: Can you just have a bad year? [Re: traveler]
Jim1104 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/16/11
Posts: 410
Loc: Louisiana, USA
I think that what eyes said is fairly accurate

_________________________
Jim
Male/USA

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#387577 - 02/28/12 03:56 AM Re: Can you just have a bad year? [Re: Jim1104]
traveler Online   confused
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/07/06
Posts: 3513
Loc: somewhere in Africa
OK - here is part of what i got from the preceding dialogue and my own spin on it. Maybe it will help a little...

Let’s see if I can explain this without making a total fool of myself.

I too have used the statement, “It has nothing to do with you,” when trying to explain things to my wife - why I searched porn sites and why I have doubts about my masculinity and orientation and why I find it hard to be physically intimate – even just the foreplay is tough for me – not to mention the actual sex act. And why I lied to "protect" myself. Weird as it may sound, it was because I love her and need her and don’t want to lose her that I lied. I was sure that if she really knew how dirty and twisted and worthless I was, she wouldn’t even look at me again. It is not about doubting my partner's faithfulness or goodness or compassion - but feeling like the depth of my darkness cancels everything else out.

What I mean when I say “It has nothing to do with you,” is NOT that she shouldn’t feel hurt or neglected or betrayed or rejected. I NKOW she feels those things and I am SORRY that I have caused that hurt. It was not intentional. I wasn’t doing anything or not doing anything as a deliberate decision to cause her emotional pain. Stupid as it may seem, I wasn’t even thinking about how it would affect her. I know I’m a self-centered jerk for that but sometimes all I can do to hang on is focus on myself and try to maintain an appearance of sanity.

What I mean by that statement - “It has nothing to do with you,” is that what I did is not her fault. There is nothing that she did or did not do to make me do what I did when I failed to live up to her decent and reasonable and normal expectations. I take the burden on myself for having screwed up. I am to blame. I am responsible. !!!WITH the caveat!!! - that it is NOT something I want to do or feel good about doing or sometimes even feel I have any other alternatives. It’s like a preconditioned compulsion that is nearly impossible to resist. And I don’t want to involve her in that - even knowing about it. So I try to hide it and look better than I am and let her think that I’m not as wretched and sick as I really am. Because I know it would be difficult for me to try to help her understand and I know that the explanation will hurt her too. I have had some of the most frustrating and exhausting conversations that seem to go nowhere. It is as if we are speaking different languages. Afterwards we are both still struggling to grasp the other's version of "Reality."

And I know it sounds like an excuse or rationalization to blame it on the CSA but for me it is all so intricately intertwined that it is impossible for me to separate the issues, no matter how rational or logical it may sound when you talk about it. "Adult actions" or "childhood trauma"? No - more like Achdiludholtodatcrtaiuomnas! = All one crazy mixed up mess. It's not even like it is a reason - it is part of the continuing event that never really ended. it's still going on in my mind...

Lee




Edited by traveler (02/28/12 04:00 AM)
_________________________
As my life goes on I believe somehow something's changed
Something deep inside...
I've been searchin so long to find an answer
Now I know my life has meaning
Now I see myself as I am, feeling very free...
When my tears have come to an end I will understand
What I left behind: a part of me. Chicago


Top
#387669 - 02/28/12 07:17 PM Re: Can you just have a bad year? [Re: traveler]
Esposa Offline
F&F Greeter
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/19/11
Posts: 728
Loc: NJ
Lee - I read what you have written over and over - I let things sink in that way - and I really truly appreciate "your spin." And it does make sense to me, even though I find it frustrating. It is frustrating to no end to live with someone I admire, respect and love and find that he still feels this way about himself. And I do understand that you feel "it has nothing to do with us". I am extremely grateful for you having taken the time to think about and write this response.

As a spouse, the problem I see with this whole thing of protecting yourself and wearing masks, is that it is a barrier to truly receiving the compassion and unconditional love that you deserve and have earned.


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