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#38646 - 05/01/01 03:42 AM Trying to understand the abuser
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hey everyone,

I have just started reading articles that address the abusers and why they do stuff like that.

I see the man who abused me as a vicious monster. I have so much anger and hate inside me towards him. This hate and anger are making me unable to focus on my recovery process. My counselor told me that the abuser was probably abused himself. I started wondering what childhood the abuser had that shaped him and made him as such. Donít misunderstand; I believe he committed a crime regardless of what the reasons were.

Anyway, I decided to read articles that talk about abusers and the things that make them sexually abuse children. By understanding the abusers side of the story, I am hoping that I will calm down and be able to deal with my anger and hate.

I though of sharing this with you guys. I wish you all the best.


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#38647 - 05/01/01 05:36 AM Re: Trying to understand the abuser
Harry Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/09/01
Posts: 117
Loc: California
These people might have been abused, but that does not relieve the suffering they cause in any way. I think people who have any inclination to act on their attractions, or whatever it is that drives them to do what they do, should seriously evaluate the consequences of what they are considering doing. Think about this, potential abusers who have been abused: Either you can act or not act on your inclinations to abuse. If you do not act, you will still be in pain. Pain from being abused and pain from feeling an inclination to abuse others. But that still equals 1 person that is in pain. Just 1. If you choose to act on your inclinations to abuse, you will not loose your pain from being abused yourself, nor will you loose the pain from feeling that drive to abuse others. However, you have now acted, so we can add on some more pain. Physical, emotional, mental, psychological, and any other type of pain is now being suffered by the person you abuse. Now you have pain, and the person you abuse has pain. That's 2 people. When you don't act it's only 1 person that is in misery, and that's better than 2. Especially sinse there is a chance that you have just started a chain of abuse in the person you abused. He could go on and abuse now just like you did. It could go on and on. So it could be 2, but it could be 3,4,5,6,7... people that are all going to suffer a painful life just because you couldn't deal with yours. If you have the slightest bit of human decency in you (and I believe everyone has a little bit), then think about the numbers before you do anything. 1 is less than 2. And less is better when we're talking about pain.
If you can't deal with your pain without spreading it to others, then by all means, find a tall building to jump off of. Because there is too much damn pain here already. Way too much.

_________________________
In the name of the Anger, and of the Sadness, and of the Unholy Fear. Amen.

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#38648 - 05/01/01 05:54 AM Re: Trying to understand the abuser
Anonymous
Unregistered


OMG. I don't know why you are talking to me as if I am an abuser. I am not an abuser, never been and never had the inclination to abuse anyone. I am a victim like everyone else here. I just thought of something that might help and posted it. I hate it that I even tried to participate in this forum. Why are you attacking me? what did I do?

God, no safe place to run to. Maybe jumping from a tall building is not bad idea. It will end all my suffering.


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#38649 - 05/01/01 07:43 AM Re: Trying to understand the abuser
Anonymous
Unregistered


I'm sorry about my previous message. I misunderstood Harry's message and thought he was addressing me for my curiosity about what motivates the abuser. I see now that he was addressing abusers. My apologies, Harry.


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#38650 - 05/01/01 11:50 AM Re: Trying to understand the abuser
michael Joseph Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/11/01
Posts: 2719
Loc: Virginia
Do not jump from a tall Building.

Get out the hate in safe ways, Hitting a pillow or stack of pillows w/ a racket works for me, taking old branches and breaking them on trunks of trees, trowing a ball at a target, ect. things that will not huurt yourself or others. there are a lot of feelings that will come out, let them out.
Feeling is a part of life. I have problems feeling.

_________________________
Standing together is so much better than hiding in the dark.
***I am a three time WoR Retreat Alumni***
The Round Table, Men's CSA Group, Monday 7:30pm CST, MaleSurvivor Chat

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#38651 - 05/01/01 12:32 PM Re: Trying to understand the abuser
Harry Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/09/01
Posts: 117
Loc: California
Crown 44, I am so sorry that you took my message as an attack on you. I didn't mean it that way at all. I never thought for a second that you were an abuser. I was just rambling about what I thought I might say to an abuser if I met one. Please take no offense. No attack was meant on you or anyone here. This forum is a great place. I'm glad you realized that I was not attacking anyone here.
I am also curious about what motivates the abuser. There's nothing wrong with that. I share your curiosity, I was just more angry about it because I was pissed off at the time I wrote that.

[This message has been edited by Harry (edited 05-01-2001).]

_________________________
In the name of the Anger, and of the Sadness, and of the Unholy Fear. Amen.

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#38652 - 05/02/01 01:04 AM Re: Trying to understand the abuser
manchild Offline
Member

Registered: 11/22/00
Posts: 35
Loc: netherlands
I am also curious how abusers come to their act. Would you like to share the results of your research with me?


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#38653 - 05/02/01 10:07 AM Re: Trying to understand the abuser
thunderbolt Offline
Member

Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 119
Loc: mi
who really gives a shit why these wicked monsters think,while or before,their crime. its said that these minds are so sick that they should just go throw themselves in a lake with a rope tied around their throats to harm any of gods little ones. so the place for them exits,im thinking that for some unapparent reason we are here to testify to the strength and courage of a soulless corpse, that travels its existence for exhibit to the rest, that there is a reason we still can draw air. as soon as i finish numbering and labeling my emotions and putting them in the right spots, the hope is that god well except my rendition and take me from this apocalypse to give me the peace I so dierly shurch for. as for now i well spend my meeger existence spueing the saintliest knowledge or understanding i have been left with.


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#38654 - 05/02/01 06:15 PM Re: Trying to understand the abuser
Executioner1832 Offline
Member

Registered: 04/03/01
Posts: 15
Loc: Big Wells, Texas, United State...
imho... who cares why they do it... they are sick bastards who cant get off any other way and get tired os using the old hand. they cant handle adults so in their sick minds they do kids. why try to understand them? i say kill them all... slowly... painfully. keep alive for months... all abuser are are perverts who dont deserve to live in the first place. i was also abused... never have i wanted to abuse another... i know what it feels like... wish this pain on no one else. my only wish is that the abusers get theirs in the end. all of them... sick bastards...


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#38655 - 05/04/01 05:51 AM Re: Trying to understand the abuser
manchild Offline
Member

Registered: 11/22/00
Posts: 35
Loc: netherlands
I am trying to understand the why of sexual abuse. Of course i need much more in life. But I want to know what goes on in the minds of those who hurted us. I think i have a right to know why it happened.
Also I think society owes it to its children to look for ways to prevent sexual abuse. Researching why is an important tool to prevent.
How far is society nowadays in researching? What do we know?


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#38656 - 05/07/01 05:42 AM Re: Trying to understand the abuser
Broken Offline
Member

Registered: 03/25/01
Posts: 273
Loc: Huntingtun Beach, CA, US
even child molesters are human. Nobody can say that in thier darkest moments they have never thought about doing something horrible. How horrible is usually just how much suffering they have seen and felt. If you judge them as monsters instead of humans who made a mistake, your just creating a cycle of hatred and abuse. Do you think child abusers actually want to hurt anyone? Most don't. Even the really twisted ones that do shouldn't be treated like that, because your only bringing more pain into the world, and your proving them right. You have every right to be angry, but anger will not stop the pain, it won't put an end to the sickness. Some people i believe society can not tolerate to keep alive, and should be given a quick, mercifull death. Others should be punished, but more importantly, they should attone for what they have done, they should try and change. How are they going to do that if the world sees them as monsters?


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#38657 - 05/09/01 10:27 AM Re: Trying to understand the abuser
thunderbolt Offline
Member

Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 119
Loc: mi
we kill monsters, dont you watch tv, read or leasten to what is around you,why is the sky blue,why is the grass green,why are some heads round? here is some more shit to ask or maybe we sould all become nonbeleavers and not ask what gift is this that god has given me that only i know, what the freedom of choice is,feels and looks like when it is taken away, if the bastards choose to fuck me then i will choose to express what the twisted form lieing torn and bloodied in udder waste is,,, me and they are monsters.


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#38658 - 05/11/01 07:48 AM Re: Trying to understand the abuser
Anonymous
Unregistered


If a person was abused, then he should know the pain this causes. If anything, that should make him go out of his way to avoid being an abuser.

A history of abuse may be cited as a reason but it is no excuse.


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#38659 - 05/11/01 11:01 AM Re: Trying to understand the abuser
diamondheart Offline
Member

Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 157
Loc: Michigan
You know I dont know if well will ever understand or know why???? I don't think it will make the pain easier??? I'm sure most have been abused themselves. But here is what I think on the issue, I was molested but I never molested anyone!!! So I believe even at an early age you know right and wrong, so I don't believe the excuse of I WAS MOLESTED TOO!! Maybe it comes from within, maybe some of us are stronger???

For years I pitied my abuser just because he was only a year older and I assumed that he was molested. I was totally discarding my feelings. I no longer pity him, he knew what he was doing, and IT WAS WRONG!!!

Anger and hate, these are normal emotions for survivors. We must all find resources and outlets for our angry. But they cant hurt other people. On easter i had a mental break down, i cried , i screamed and totally went nuts!!! Everyone thought I was going crazy, maybe I was at the time. But do you know that since then I havent felt better in my whole life. We all need to get his anger out. Whether its yelling outloud, crying or etc., as long as you let it go!!!!

I believe everyone has a right to have anger, and dont let anyone say you dont!! But we shouldnt hold on to it for real long, because it just festers into a hurricane like affect.

take care guys,
Derek
\:\)

_________________________
I am a gay guy just trying to find my way...

http://itismytimetoshine.wordpress.com

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#38660 - 05/11/01 12:35 PM Re: Trying to understand the abuser
thunderbolt Offline
Member

Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 119
Loc: mi
well put derek and everyone else if i am to have a choice on how to express my anger and hate and the picture i paint will be of the distruction of my monsters and thats the way i want it.


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#38661 - 05/12/01 01:16 PM Re: Trying to understand the abuser
Anonymous
Unregistered


Crown444,
I'm surprised by the lack of understanding here. It sounds like the hate is eating you alive, which is a natural reaction to your pain and abuse, but is also something that is consuming you to the exclusion of you being able to become healthier. It seems your therapist is correct in knowing there needs to be some way to slow down the anger. Understanding is probably the best way. I don't have many answers for you. I do know that much in the same learning pattern as we've been shaped to feel shame and guilt about everything, abusers were usually taught at a young age to sexualize aberrantly. It's not right, but if we are going to be able to get better ourselves, we must be able to forgive those who hurt us. To do that, we must understand them.

Crown444, please know that I hear your anger and I understand how it consumes and not for a second do I blame you for it. I just want to see you stop hurting yourself.
Take care,
jeb


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#38662 - 05/13/01 01:06 AM Re: Trying to understand the abuser
Anonymous
Unregistered


Jeb,

Thank you so much for the your understanding and kindness. I read your message and it brought tears to my eyes. Don't worry, they were the good kind.

I am making progress, little by little. I am blessed with a wife who is standing right beside me. Her words are helping me a lot. God bless her soul. I made a promise to myself to dedicate my life for her.

And to the others, thank you for being who you are. Each one of you is a source of inspiration. Each one of you is an example of courage.

An here is a hug from me.

((((((((((( Harry, michael, humanforever, thunderbolt , Executioner1832, Broken, noveldoc, Derek, jeb ))))))))).


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#38663 - 05/13/01 10:27 AM Re: Trying to understand the abuser
michael Joseph Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/11/01
Posts: 2719
Loc: Virginia
Why is the wrong question. If you understand the other person's mind that is a dangerous place to be in my mind. I do not want to know, I do not want to be them. I want to be healty. The better question is what keeps me from being them.

_________________________
Standing together is so much better than hiding in the dark.
***I am a three time WoR Retreat Alumni***
The Round Table, Men's CSA Group, Monday 7:30pm CST, MaleSurvivor Chat

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#38664 - 05/26/01 11:19 PM Re: Trying to understand the abuser
Broken Offline
Member

Registered: 03/25/01
Posts: 273
Loc: Huntingtun Beach, CA, US
i never stated that abusers have done nothing wrong, that they don't deserved to be punished or your not entitled to feel angry. I am suggesting that there is more at stake than simply the wrong you have suffered, and that trying to understand your abusers is the only way to stop child abuse. You have an entire life ahead of you, and i don't think you want to spend it dwelling in anger and pain. Rage is it's own reason, because if you don't let it go, you will just keep getting more bitter, more angry, until you become exactely what you despise. A whole person is always more than just one action, one emotion. Child molesters usually want to stop. They usually want to confess. Many would kill themselves but they can't find the way. Some do. Does this sound like someone beyond hope?

Then, on the other hand, you have the "monsters". Just think about it. If you were molested since you were 3 years old, chained to a post and forced to kill animals to eat, would you believe that there was anything good in this world? Would you even understand what good was? Good to you might mean killing anything and everything you love because you don't want to see it in any more pain. These are only monsters in the sense that nobody took the time to try and show them what good and evil means.

The closest thing i can think of to a monster is someone who chooses evil. Hasn't anyone ever been tempted to do something wrong? What stopped you? Faith in something better? Whose to say you couldn't have made the decision to commit evil? Whose to say that you have never knowing commited an evil act no matter who little? Just because we do a bad thing, does that make us a bad person? If no, then who is to say that someone can't change, and that if given even a remote possibility of that happening, doesn't that person deserve a chance to change?

I also understand anger. For a while i thought about stalking down my brother and gutting him like a fish. I would imagine the blade piercing the flesh, ripping through his gut, and seeing a big pool of blood, and it made me feel some satisfaction. But after a while, i understood, if i did that, even if i didn't get caught, ESPECIALLY if i didn't get caught, i would never feel whole that way. It would just eat away at me for the rest of my life. A great wrong was commited against us all here, but if we can't find the strength to truly make ourselves at peace with what happened, then in the end the pain and anger win, and if your abuser is beyond redemption in this world, then they win too.

I don't think we could ever be so wretched that there is no redemtion, or anyone so righteous that they can't fall. If you can't chose between good and evil, then you really have no idea what either means.


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#38665 - 05/26/01 11:20 PM Re: Trying to understand the abuser
Broken Offline
Member

Registered: 03/25/01
Posts: 273
Loc: Huntingtun Beach, CA, US
i never stated that abusers have done nothing wrong, that they don't deserved to be punished or your not entitled to feel angry. I am suggesting that there is more at stake than simply the wrong you have suffered, and that trying to understand your abusers is the only way to stop child abuse. You have an entire life ahead of you, and i don't think you want to spend it dwelling in anger and pain. Rage is it's own reason, because if you don't let it go, you will just keep getting more bitter, more angry, until you become exactely what you despise. A whole person is always more than just one action, one emotion. Child molesters usually want to stop. They usually want to confess. Many would kill themselves but they can't find the way. Some do. Does this sound like someone beyond hope?

Then, on the other hand, you have the "monsters". Just think about it. If you were molested since you were 3 years old, chained to a post and forced to kill animals to eat, would you believe that there was anything good in this world? Would you even understand what good was? Good to you might mean killing anything and everything you love because you don't want to see it in any more pain. These are only monsters in the sense that nobody took the time to try and show them what good and evil means.

The closest thing i can think of to a monster is someone who chooses evil. Hasn't anyone ever been tempted to do something wrong? What stopped you? Faith in something better? Whose to say you couldn't have made the decision to commit evil? Whose to say that you have never knowing commited an evil act no matter who little? Just because we do a bad thing, does that make us a bad person? If no, then who is to say that someone can't change, and that if given even a remote possibility of that happening, doesn't that person deserve a chance to change?

I also understand anger. For a while i thought about stalking down my brother and gutting him like a fish. I would imagine the blade piercing the flesh, ripping through his gut, and seeing a big pool of blood, and it made me feel some satisfaction. But after a while, i understood, if i did that, even if i didn't get caught, ESPECIALLY if i didn't get caught, i would never feel whole that way. It would just eat away at me for the rest of my life. A great wrong was commited against us all here, but if we can't find the strength to truly make ourselves at peace with what happened, then in the end the pain and anger win, and if your abuser is beyond redemption in this world, then they win too.

I don't think we could ever be so wretched that there is no redemtion, or anyone so righteous that they can't fall. If you can't chose between good and evil, then you really have no idea what either means.


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#38666 - 05/27/01 01:37 AM Re: Trying to understand the abuser
Harry Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/09/01
Posts: 117
Loc: California
Broken, what you posted was very open-mined and very true. I agree with everything you said, and I especially like how you said, "A whole person is always more than just one action, one emotion." It was very constructive instead of self-destructive. Even though the anger must be let out, and cries of desperation and pain need to be heard here, it is good to hear what you wrote. This place is great for both. Thanks.

_________________________
In the name of the Anger, and of the Sadness, and of the Unholy Fear. Amen.

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#38667 - 05/27/01 11:43 PM Re: Trying to understand the abuser
Anonymous
Unregistered


Peace comes from forgiveness. There is no way around it.

However, forgiveness does not come from understanding. Understanding helps us to forgive, because we are not God. If I blame everything I am on the boy who abused me, then I do neither of us any good. I don't understand why he did what he did, but I do understand what it did to my life.

It would be easy for me to argue that it destroyed what I could have been, but it opened another door and tried my heart. In many ways, it opened my eyes to who I really am.

Now, before I get slammed by those that may hear me saying that what happened to me was good, I'M NOT SAYING THAT!!!

What I am saying is that what happened to me, happened... I can't change the past and I will never know why he made the choices he did. What I do know is that I can spend my life in bitterness and anger, or I can chose to look for the good in everything.

I'm not usually very good at seeing the GOOD, but I am trying.

I'm not ready to try to understand why child molesters do what they do. I don't want to go there. I hope that it helps you (Crown44)!

What I am ready to do is to understand how my abuse affected me -- both bad and good. I know that it may be hard to imagine anything good coming out of all this, but try these on for size:
* I can not have casual sex. Most men would consider this a problem, but I am better because of it. I have been faithful in my marriage and was probably spared the pain of sexual transmitted disease because of it.

None of this excuses the person who committed a terrible crime against me, but he can not escape his final judgement. No one can. Not even me...

It is more important what I do in respose to my experiences in life than whether or not he pays for his crimes. We all pay for our crimes, and the crimes of those that impact our lives. My wife has paid for my crimes, probably more than I have paid for her's.

I can't help but believe that healing will come from knowing myself and learning to forgive.

However, forgiving doesn't mean forgetting, and it doesn't mean excusing. It means walking away from it at peace with yourself.


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