Newest Members
Robert Barrett, lostsoul824, beatcook, MassGuy, wiresguy1
12278 Registered Users
Today's Birthdays
carter (51), CAW1980 (34), Fissy Tsickens (53), Kris (52), Wheatthins (23)
Who's Online
2 registered (Rich1967, Obi), 21 Guests and 2 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
12278 Members
73 Forums
63173 Topics
441753 Posts

Max Online: 418 @ 07/02/12 07:29 AM
Twitter
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >
Topic Options
#386267 - 02/18/12 02:04 PM Question for survivors.....
lucylives Offline


Registered: 04/07/11
Posts: 357
I have read many posts in the survivor section about what we women spouses think about our spouses when the disclose. Do we think differently of you knowing what happened to you as children? Now i have a question for you......

If you acted out in horrendous ways against us or our marriage and have lied over and over, what do you think about us for staying and trying to work through it?

Do you think we are too weak to leave?
Do you think we are stupid for believing the lies?
Do you think we are stupid for staying?

What are your thoughts on us and why we stay?

Just for the record, if you post something on here that is rude or insulting to me, don't waste your time. I WILL NOT BOTHER READING IT!!


Top
#386269 - 02/18/12 03:31 PM Re: Question for survivors..... [Re: lucylives]
newground Offline
Chatroom Moderator
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 10/11/11
Posts: 747
Loc: michigan
I think you are great! it is unfortunate that the things that haunt us have come to haunt you as well and I am sorry for you. but the fact that you can hold to a person you love and have comitted youselves to is a testimony to human compassion. I pray that healing comes to your spouse and to your marriage in a complete way and that you have many more years of joy then those you have had of pain.

_________________________
Towards thee I roll, thou all-destroying but unconquering whale; to the last I grapple with thee; from hell's heart I stab at thee; for hate's sake I spit my last breath at thee. let me then tow to pieces, while still chasing thee, thou damned whale! Thus, I give up the spear!"
Herman Melville

Top
#386272 - 02/18/12 03:42 PM Re: Question for survivors..... [Re: lucylives]
phoenix321 Offline


Registered: 09/26/11
Posts: 912
Loc: USA, FL
Originally Posted By: lucylives

Do you think we are too weak to leave?
Do you think we are stupid for believing the lies?
Do you think we are stupid for staying?

What are your thoughts on us and why we stay?


My question has always been: why get involved in the first place with a guy that everyone warns a woman to stay away from?

My sperm donor was an abusive piece of trash. What do I think about my mom? 1. No, not really. 2. YES! 3. YES! She also admitted she was stupid to stay with him.

Why women stay? They think they can fix their wayward husbands (most they never should've gotten involved with in the first place) and become Co-Dependent. All 3 points my mom exemplified. She also made excuses for his child abuse on top of it.

What's worse is they stay and have kids and let their wayward husband abuse their kids. I'm talking about women that had ways out not women stuck in a bad situation due to domestic violence, no family, etc. The circle of violence has to be stopped somewhere. Kids are innocent. Parents aren't.

This won't be popular but CSA is no excuse for bad behavior, cheating, prostitutes, etc.

If a mother does stay and their children pay for it, her kids will end up hating her for it more than they hate the abuser.

Single women staying with a jerk that hits them and/or verbally abuses them and/or cheats on them is beyond my understanding.

I ask myself this question: would I stay married to a woman that cheats on me? Maybe once depending on what it was (like my fault). Some women cheat because their husbands are never there. Twice? Nope.

I think your answer is Co-Dependency. I read it a few years back and it explained a lot about women that stay in abusive relationships. Yeah, a cheating husband is abuse. I've worked around a lot of women and many say the same thing, different words sometimes, "I can fix them, Or, He'll change for me." Yeah, that's co-dependency. No one can fix anyone. You have to fix yourself. That altruism comes from AA, NA, etc. A drunk will never lay down the sauce unless he/she does it for himself/herself.

_________________________
Phoenix

A guy opens the front door and sees a snail on his doorstep. He picks up the snail and throws it across the street in a neighbor's yard. A year later, the guy opens the front door and the same snail is on his doorstep. The snail says, "What the f*ck was that about?"

Top
#386301 - 02/18/12 09:38 PM Re: Question for survivors..... [Re: phoenix321]
Jim1104 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/16/11
Posts: 407
Loc: Louisiana, USA
I agree wwith newground. You are neither weak nor stupid. I would say you are to be admired and respected greatly. I don't read your question to mean that you are staying in a relationship where you subject yourself to further emotional abusse. I assume that you would not subject your children to abuse.

Phoenix is correct. No matter what one's past is, there can be no excuse for bad behavior. I have done things I never thought I would do to my family. I believe the catalyst may have been CSA, but I am still wholly responsible for my infidelity. My wife should not excuse me for what I did. She should expect integrity and an honest attempt at recovery from me if she chooses to stay.

_________________________
Jim
Male/USA

Top
#386303 - 02/18/12 09:55 PM Re: Question for survivors..... [Re: lucylives]
lucylives Offline


Registered: 04/07/11
Posts: 357
Thanks for the responses, guys.

Phoenix I had no indication that he wasn't a good guy. Everyone loves him, of course no one knows the shit he has done.

I didn't know he needed fixing. I thought he was such a great guy. didn't know how damaged he was. Would have never guessed he would have done those things.

As for the kids, they love him. He throws money at them so they think he is the greatest thing since sliced bread.

He doesn't abuse the kids except with over accommodating them so they will like him. He does not physically abuse me. I do feel emotinally abused by all the lies.

And I feel weak as shit for staying. I feel too traumatized and damaged by living with a sex addict to think clearly. I am so afraid that if I left I would just end up with another one of them.


Top
#386317 - 02/18/12 11:45 PM Re: Question for survivors..... [Re: lucylives]
Jim1104 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/16/11
Posts: 407
Loc: Louisiana, USA
Lucy...are you seeing a T? Any support groups in your area? Keep up the battle. You are so worth it.

_________________________
Jim
Male/USA

Top
#386360 - 02/19/12 07:12 AM Re: Question for survivors..... [Re: lucylives]
Dar Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/15/11
Posts: 170
Loc: Missouri
These are just my thoughts, I know that others think differantly,But (IMHO) but each circumstance and person is differant.


Do you think we are too weak to leave?


That would be a two fold question: That would depend a lot on the survivor and how much they want to heal their own life and their marriage. Acting out is their own fault and by their own actions. Ask your self these questions.

Are they truly Remorseful?

Are they just trying to appease you?

Are they really changing?

Are they working on them selfs to heal?


Do you think we are stupid for believing the lies?


Why wouldn't you have not believed them? You trusted them and they took advantage of that.That isnt your fault and no you are not stupid for beleiving someone you love.
Most survivors (IMHO Again) are very well versed in hiding their pain and agoney buy lying/hiding their way through life. It is a sad way to live but it is a survivors way of surviving.
This is a tough one for the spouse to get past and the survivor has to be the one to show you he wont lie to you any longer about anything. Hard work for them and you. Sorry

Do you think we are stupid for staying?



That really depends on you and how it all works out!
If it doesent work out, then you will think that you were stupid for staying.
If it does work out then you will rejoice in a new and better marriage.
You have to make that choice based on what the survivor is doing to heal their self and the marriage.
Remember that their are now two people that must heal from a tragedy, Theirs and yours.
The last thing in the world that I wanted was for my wife to leave. I needed help and she now also needed help to understand what and why I did those terrible things to her.
I feel that without her support and love that I would not have survived this. I was headed down the path of destuction with no end in sight.
She also needed to heal, me running away and sticking my head in the sand would have been so easy and comfortable for me to do, as this is one of the ways that I had learned to cope with confrontation.
But my me staying and wanting to fight for my marriage was a huge first step in my healing and a better marriage.
Thank God she stayed!!!! For all of the pain and suffering that we both endured has made us much stronger together.

Do I think that she was stupid for staying? By no means, for I would have lost an Angel had that hapened.

I hope the best for you and your survivor, it is a long hard road, but the rewards can be wonderful once everything starts anew.
Best of luck.

_________________________
All I ever wanted was a hug.

Top
#386420 - 02/19/12 02:53 PM Re: Question for survivors..... [Re: lucylives]
whome Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/07/11
Posts: 1734
Loc: Johannesburg South Africa
Hi Lucy

Ive written this a couple of times so I hope I get to finish it.
Quote:

for staying and trying to work through it?


I think that you are one of those incredibly strong woman that has decided to protect all that is dear to her, Children, Husband, Marriage.
Quote:

Do you think we are too weak to leave?


Perhaps Afraid, Perhaps courageous, But most certainly not weak.

Quote:
Do you think we are stupid for believing the lies?


Remember that you live with a master manipulator, someone that has spent his whole life mastering the art of lying to hide his horrendous past, and to forget it. That you were caught up in this is not your fault and not your choosing. You cant blame yourself.
Quote:

Do you think we are stupid for staying?

Well sometimes I think that you are, but then that depends on what you want out of the relationship. What is your ultimate need out of this relationship. If your desire is to make the relationship work? well then you are not "stupid" but again a brave individual.

Quote:
What are your thoughts on us and why we stay?


Well again I draw your attention to the above. If you want to repair all that you value, then I can understand. If you are staying at home and being abused then please flee.

Your family is the most valuable thing, If you desire to protect and preserve it, then stay and fight. If you are being hurt then please please leave.

I hope this answers your questions, this is of course my perspective, so if it helps I am happy, if not please ignore.

Heal well
Martin

_________________________
Matrix Men South Africa
Survivors Supporting Each other
Matrix Men Blog

Top
#386472 - 02/20/12 12:51 AM Re: Question for survivors..... [Re: lucylives]
phoenix321 Offline


Registered: 09/26/11
Posts: 912
Loc: USA, FL
Originally Posted By: lucylives
Thanks for the responses, guys.

Phoenix I had no indication that he wasn't a good guy. Everyone loves him, of course no one knows the shit he has done.

I didn't know he needed fixing. I thought he was such a great guy. didn't know how damaged he was. Would have never guessed he would have done those things.

As for the kids, they love him. He throws money at them so they think he is the greatest thing since sliced bread.

He doesn't abuse the kids except with over accommodating them so they will like him. He does not physically abuse me. I do feel emotinally abused by all the lies.

And I feel weak as shit for staying. I feel too traumatized and damaged by living with a sex addict to think clearly. I am so afraid that if I left I would just end up with another one of them.


(((((Lucy)))))

What I said was my experience over years. I know you didn't know, babe. The women I was talking about went after the guy everyone warned them about. My mom was one of them. Women that marry a guy that looks perfect, or good, and isn't I feel really bad for. One women I knew and told her to leave the guy (he had CSA) because he was an abusive jerk that refused to do anything. She left him. No kids so it was way easier to do that. I knew he was big trouble. Guys like me are rare though that will cut another guy like that. I did it a second time and the guy (who beat her up) threatened to kill me. You're the only one I told about the second guy. I told him, bring it, asshole. He's in prison now for something. She dumped him before they married. Those guys that look good to the outside and are assholes on the inside of life are terrible. I'm sorry about your situation, girl. It truly sucks. frown Wish I could do something for you.



Edited by phoenix321 (02/20/12 12:53 AM)
_________________________
Phoenix

A guy opens the front door and sees a snail on his doorstep. He picks up the snail and throws it across the street in a neighbor's yard. A year later, the guy opens the front door and the same snail is on his doorstep. The snail says, "What the f*ck was that about?"

Top
#386529 - 02/20/12 02:36 PM Re: Question for survivors..... [Re: phoenix321]
KMCINVA Offline
Greeter
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 1552
This question has haunted me since I saw it posted. I do not believe I or anyone else can judge what is right or wrong for you or to label your decisions. Below you will see why your question has bothered me since it was posted--I was asked this question from the other side. I attend two support groups and I have friends and other supporters to whom I speak as well as my T. You may or not know my background but I have been in therapy and support groups for ten months. For five on- going years prior to this I experienced turmoil in my life that raised the long buried child in me. I have learned I buried the child and the memories there so I could survive. I did a pretty good job at hiding that part of me, it would appear sometimes in dreams or intrusive thoughts, but I could always get it back into that dark place away from my conscious thoughts. I could carry on with life-probably not 100% but functionally alive. I had distrust, fears and emotionally aloof.

However, over five years ago things began to change and the part where I buried the memories began to appear constantly in my thoughts and dreams. I went a year with minimal sleep of two or so hours a night for fear of seeing the memories when I closed my eyes. That part of me began to take over and my defense mechanisms were weakened from turmoil. I never realized one could separate the parts of oneself—but now understand trauma can cause this to happen, especially at a young age.

Well I was asked at a session if I felt I was crazy or stupid to have staid around my home with everything going on—I was spat on, privacy invaded, locked in a room with a window for escape, room ransacked with papers thrown all over the place, several—some doing the deeds, others watching or being reported back to- ransacking the computer, phone, files and car, being yelled and being told I was worthless, unauthorized credit card charges that I became responsible for, etc. I was trapped in my home and words were said that triggered the memories, I can hear them so clearly, words my abuser spoke. This was ongoing. Everyone who hears the story says yes I should have seen the signs and left as well as saying their behavior was wrong and they need help. I am not judging or giving the answers to these remarks but I am focusing on why I staid. And I do not want to think of myself as being crazy or stupid for staying around. I am looking to the future because I can only accept the past and look to the future for my happiness. I am the only one who can determine the correct path for me, what others think may not be right for me or someone else.

I think we all have hopes things will change, people will seek counsel and reflect on what they are doing and life will be better. I also was fighting the demons of my past, I was shattered from this, I was losing and would find myself in places I did not know how or why I was there-left me scared and fearful as to what I had done, I was exhausted from lack of sleep, unfocused and from all this I was acting out. I was lost and felt worthless but still held onto hope things would get in the home. I tried so many things—went to support groups for grief, abused parents and mental illness forums—hoping I would find an answer to what was happening to me and trying to understand why things were being done to me in the home. I found some answers but no one would listen.

It is the hope that keeps us there as well as the fear—I feared I was going crazy but I have learned I was fighting my past, I was angry that the secret I harbored for so long would not go silently to the grave with me. But as I go through therapy I learn my real anger was not to take the secret to the grave but at the abuser and tormentors. It was misdirected and I was angry at myself for believing I allowed the abuse when now I understand the abuse and torment were not my fault but what I did or may have done is my responsibility. I am letting go of the anger, it is a poison that can hinder your healing and understanding--not saying you do not have the right to be angry but rather saying releasing it will allow you to see the right decision for you.

I was asked if I did not have the torment in the home would I have been able to keep the past buried. I believe yes, but it is what it is. It happened and having the secret of the abuse out is a weight off my shoulders and heart. I am feeling happiness, joy and the need for companionship—which I have found with many. Would I have had these emotions, so much more intense than ever, if I had not faced the past? I say probably not. Is what I did or may have done in acting who I am, I can answer no. I continue with therapy and will continue to unravel the lost time. But I am healing. Both the survivor and those around them need to heal.

So only the individual can truly answer the question are they stupid for staying around for themselves. Do they see hope and have the desire to invest time, energy and pain in the relationship? The survivor needs to get help to understand and heal so his sense of self and how he acts can change. It takes two to make it work. So it is not for me to judge anyone, CSA is a horrible thing and it destroys lives and causes pain and hurt and how one chooses to numb the pain, hurt and memories will differ amongst survivors—because we are all unique with unique emotions, perceptions and genetic make-up. But the survivor needs to face his demons if there is any hope of recovery. Lucy, only you know how you feel, what others feel is not important, they do not know the details, your inner feelings, fears, concerns or what you truly want for the future. You have to live your life. I understand, I have heard others say what I should have done but I need to make the decision, it is not these to make. Until one walks in your shoes they should not pass judgment but be there for counsel, an ear to listen, a shoulder to cry on, or to give guidance or advice.

Lucy best to you and in the end you will know what is right for you.




Edited by KMCINVA (02/20/12 03:08 PM)

Top
#386540 - 02/20/12 04:07 PM Re: Question for survivors..... [Re: lucylives]
herowannabe Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/01/11
Posts: 386
Loc: USA
Quote:
It is the hope that keeps us there as well as the fear


Oh so true! From a supporter's viewpoint, I stay because:

- I hope to be my husband's hero, his steadfast support.
- I hope to become a better human being for the experiences.
- I hope to live the rest of my days with this beautiful soul I call my beloved.
- I hope to one day smile at the road behind me knowing it was worth every single step, every single tear.
- I hope to be a good model for my kids as they embark on their own marriages. When they reach their own tragedies, I hope they'll draw on my husband's and my example of working through it and not running away in terror.
- I hope to help others, to encourage them to be their best selves in the face of utter destruction.
- I hope to have a marriage that is infinately better than ANY I could have dreamed of for having grown together through this chaos.

- I fear failing in this. I fear I will grow tired, and will push away this cross and in doing so will have told God, "no, thanks".
- I fear not accomplishing work that only me, myself and I can accomplish by going through the hard stuff.
- I fear the thought of giving up, then years down the road running into my beloved with his new wife, healed, happy and whole, living the life I wanted to live with him. Had I stayed.
- I fear showing my kids my weakness instead of showing them my strength, and the very real work it takes to be strong.
- I fear failing in the mission God gave me: To be true to my wedding vows- NOT because I fear punishment, but because I fear the remorseful defeat I'd feel in failing myself.

I love your post, KMC! Thank you for it!

herowannabe

_________________________


For I know the plans I have made for you. Plans to give you a future and a hope. Jeremiah 29:11


Top
#386542 - 02/20/12 04:24 PM Re: Question for survivors..... [Re: KMCINVA]
lucylives Offline


Registered: 04/07/11
Posts: 357
Wow, I can't thank you all enough. Some things you said have really resonated with me.

First off, let me say we are in therapy, both seperately and together. We both do 12 step meetings and work our own programs. As for as being married to a sex addict, I can say that I am probably one of the lucky ones in that my husband has a program and works it.

Sometimes, though, I feel really bad about myself for staying. I was traumatized when this all came out. Really too traumatized to do much of anything but try to survive and keep my kids and family going.

Now I don't know. It is so fricking painful. We, wives, have been placed in some insane, confusing and crazy situations and it is so PAINFUL! Never knowing what really is because of all the lies is incredibly scary, scarier than I can ever say.

to quote.....Lucy, only you know how you feel, what others feel is not important, they do not know the details, your inner feelings, fears, concerns or what you truly want for the future. You have to live your life.

Okay, pre-d-day, this wouldn't have been an issue. Now I don't know what I feel. I was always the most confident person but am afraid my ability to make good choices is gone. These lies have robbed me of my confidence in myself. That is a huge TRAGEDY!

Dar....

Are they truly Remorseful? I think so but hard to trust my perception.

Are they just trying to appease you? Probably, people pleaser is his middle name.

Are they really changing? I think so. He has taken some risks and shared some hard things with me.

Are they working on them selfs to heal? I think so but again hard to trust my perception.

Thanks for your clarifcation, Phoenix. That means alot. It would actually be easier if he was physically abusive. I could defend myself against that and it is black and white so much easier to walk. I have never been in that situation so i wouldn't know.

Whome, thanks for the response about master manipulator comment really helps. You really can't even imagine the things that have happened so how could I have know he was lying.

Jim, therapy, 12 steps, you name it, we do it.

I keep thinking though, what if my kids were in a relationship like this......I would do anything to get them out of a life like this so why is it good enough for me.

And ladies, I wasn't trying to exclude you all. Please chime in....

And also a great big thank you for no rude or smartass comments. It has been a very negative experience on this board lately. So thank you thank you thank you.


Top
#386545 - 02/20/12 05:00 PM Re: Question for survivors..... [Re: lucylives]
Avery46 Offline


Registered: 09/23/10
Posts: 1243
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: lucylives
...If you acted out in horrendous ways against us or our marriage and have lied over and over, what do you think about us for staying and trying to work through it?

Do you think we are too weak to leave?
Do you think we are stupid for believing the lies?
Do you think we are stupid for staying?

What are your thoughts on us and why we stay?
...


I have been watching this thread for a couple of days now. I can only say my experience. When I told my ex-wife of the acts I had committed which were against our marriage, NO reason could have saved our marriage. BUT, we living in a very conservative state in the north central part of the US at the time and it was 21 years ago. I would have never expected her to understand. When I did admit (became honest) about my behavior she said "GET OUT".

I am glad you wonderful ladies are there for your guys.

Peace,
Avery

_________________________
aka DJsport

Top
#386561 - 02/20/12 06:44 PM Re: Question for survivors..... [Re: Avery46]
traveler Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/07/06
Posts: 3319
Loc: back in the USA
Hero:

Your list -
***From a supporter's viewpoint, I stay because:...***

Beautiful! We can ALL learn from that - survivors and supporters...

Nearly speechless,
Lee

_________________________
We are often troubled, but not crushed;
sometimes in doubt, but never in despair;
there are many enemies, but we are never without a friend;
and though badly hurt at times, we are not destroyed.
- Paul, II Cor 4:8-9

Top
#386569 - 02/20/12 07:35 PM Re: Question for survivors..... [Re: KMCINVA]
GoodHope Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/05/11
Posts: 413
I asked my husband these questions because I never thought of them. The answer that made me lol was to "am I stupid for believing his lies". He said he thought he was a really good liar. He said he knows I want to make it work for our kids but he hopes that I will eventually want to make it work for him.

I didn't think I was stupid. I'm no match for deceit once you are in my inner circle. I'm suspicious of strangers but not loved ones.

I did/do worry that staying makes him likely to do it again. For me to tell him that I can't go through this again feels like a threat and not a good thing to say when healing but I think he knows how much this took out of me and how very badly I wanted to leave.

I too worry about what I am showing my kids. On the one hand I'm modeling hard work and forgiveness, but on the other, I've been mistreated, disrespected, and no one should have to tolerate that, particularly from your spouse.

_________________________
Wife of a survivor

Top
#386578 - 02/20/12 08:17 PM Re: Question for survivors..... [Re: GoodHope]
lucylives Offline


Registered: 04/07/11
Posts: 357
YES HOPE! We are modelling hard work and forgiveness but being mistreated and disrespected. It is a never ending dilemna.

Hero, that is nice that you want to be his hero. I want my husband to be MY HERO by facing his issues head on and being courageous even when it is so scary.


Top
#386585 - 02/20/12 08:39 PM Re: Question for survivors..... [Re: lucylives]
Esposa Offline
F&F Greeter
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/19/11
Posts: 678
Loc: NJ
My husband gave me a card when I let him come back - a beautiful card about an oak tree losing all of its leaves in the wind, but with roots so deep and strong, that nothing could move it. It was the most amazing card I have ever received.

I think I am weak for taking him back. He thinks I am strong. He readily admits that he could never do what I have seemingly been capable of. I say seemingly because I don't know if I can. I really want to...


Top
#386592 - 02/20/12 09:35 PM Re: Question for survivors..... [Re: KMCINVA]
Jim1104 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/16/11
Posts: 407
Loc: Louisiana, USA
Now, I have a question for all the supporters/spouses here:

Who is your absolute all time hero?

I admit to having a very rocky relationship, but I have to say that the greatest all time hero for me is Jesus. Yeah, it had to be the guy that a lot of people believe is the son of God, but I am not going to go all religious on everybody. You could also say that Mahatma Ghandi, Martin Luther King, Jr., Moses and even Mohamed could easily be someone’s all time hero. How about John the Baptist and the prophets of the world’s great religions? Would they qualify?

What do you survivors think of them? Most, if not all of them went through tremendous persecution, but kept coming back for more. Some even paid the ultimate sacrifice. Jesus was crucified. Ghandi was beaten and reviled as were the others I mentioned. John the Baptist had his head chopped off and Jeremiah was thrown in a well.

Against such tremendous odds and betrayal, all of these people stayed true to that which they believed in, even if it meant they would die or otherwise suffer.

So, thinking back to the question you asked Lucy, I would ask you:

1. Was your greatest all time hero too weak to leave their circumstances to find an easier softer life? I can’t answer that for you, but I would not exactly say the people I just listed were weak.
2. Ok, many of these people did not technically believe lies that they were told. I imagine, though, there were times when those who were not divine did believe someone who ultimately betrayed them.
3. How stupid do you think the people I mentioned above were? Surely, the smart thing according to their society would be to go with the flow and not turn the world upside down. They all had the intellect to probably succeed in whatever they do, but they followed the path that their heart told them was the right one for them and their people. I tend to think they were among the wisest people who ever lived. I can tell you without reservation that, in my belief, Jesus was the wisest man who ever did or will live, but the world thought he was stupid. He even proved it when he let himself be killed on a cross, if you believe the conventional wisdom of the time.

If, then, these people were to be admired for doing something that most “sane” people would think was “insane”, I cannot think of any reason why I, or you, should think any differently. In the end, it only matters what you think about yourself. It only matters that you protect yourself, you children and live by the values that you profess to believe. I don’t know why you stay. I don’t know why anyone else stays. I choose to believe that you stay for the right reasons of love and integrity. I choose to believe you stay because you want to make every attempt to keep the vows that you made, despite what we did to you.

There is no stupidity or weakness in that – none at all.

_________________________
Jim
Male/USA

Top
#386595 - 02/20/12 09:44 PM Re: Question for survivors..... [Re: Jim1104]
lucylives Offline


Registered: 04/07/11
Posts: 357
Wow, Jim. Greaat food for thought. I am gonna think about all this.


Top
#386597 - 02/20/12 09:48 PM Re: Question for survivors..... [Re: Jim1104]
GoodHope Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/05/11
Posts: 413
Originally Posted By: Jim1104

If, then, these people were to be admired for doing something that most “sane” people would think was “insane”, I cannot think of any reason why I, or you, should think any differently. In the end, it only matters what you think about yourself. It only matters that you protect yourself, you children and live by the values that you profess to believe. I don’t know why you stay. I don’t know why anyone else stays. I choose to believe that you stay for the right reasons of love and integrity. I choose to believe you stay because you want to make every attempt to keep the vows that you made, despite what we did to you.

There is no stupidity or weakness in that – none at all.


<3 <3 <3

That is the EXACT reason I stayed. And just like all the people you mentioned, I sometimes don't want to do what is required but I'm looking past my immediate circumstances because God has many promises for me, I just have to obedient and trust Him, even when I can't trust "him".

_________________________
Wife of a survivor

Top
#386613 - 02/21/12 12:13 AM Re: Question for survivors..... [Re: Jim1104]
phoenix321 Offline


Registered: 09/26/11
Posts: 912
Loc: USA, FL
Originally Posted By: Jim1104
Now, I have a question for all the supporters/spouses here:

Who is your absolute all time hero?

So, thinking back to the question you asked Lucy, I would ask you:

1. Was your greatest all time hero too weak to leave their circumstances to find an easier softer life? I can’t answer that for you, but I would not exactly say the people I just listed were weak.
2. Ok, many of these people did not technically believe lies that they were told. I imagine, though, there were times when those who were not divine did believe someone who ultimately betrayed them.
3. How stupid do you think the people I mentioned above were? Surely, the smart thing according to their society would be to go with the flow and not turn the world upside down.


Jim, you always have some deep stuff to say. Truthfully, some deep stuff goes through your mind and your quill (pen).

Hero? Those guys and gals out there everyday in the military are true heroes not sports or any other people ascribed as heroes. Bonnie Tyler's "Holding Out for a Hero" song is probably my dissertation on the subject. I'm looking for one. Therefore, the other questions really are irrelevant to my answer since I'm still looking for one to believe in.

_________________________
Phoenix

A guy opens the front door and sees a snail on his doorstep. He picks up the snail and throws it across the street in a neighbor's yard. A year later, the guy opens the front door and the same snail is on his doorstep. The snail says, "What the f*ck was that about?"

Top
#386616 - 02/21/12 01:12 AM Re: Question for survivors..... [Re: phoenix321]
Jim1104 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/16/11
Posts: 407
Loc: Louisiana, USA
I couldn't agree with you more about the members of our military. They are true heros. You know who else qualifies to be included...the wives, lovers and children of those heros.

Maybe this is a bit self serving, but having watched my dad head off to Vietnam at age 7, and then make a beeline to th house at the end of the day to see if there was a tape or letter, I know th kids of this generation suffer a lot when their mom and/or dad are deployed to combat. I know that the spouses suffer greatly when their hero is gone. Taking care of the kids, working and being an ever present support to their wife or husband is a sacrifice that many make willingly and they never receive the thanks they deserve.

One of the rules for pilots when I was growing up was they were supposed to call their wives when they landed after a flight. This was in the 70s, so the rule pretty much was related to training flights. Since the wives knew when their husbands were flying, some would be on pins an needles until the call came. I can't tell you how mad it made my mom when dad didn't call.

His last few months as wing commander there were some bad accidents caused by civilian pilots straying into military airspace. On his last flight as wing commander, dad failed to let mom know he landed safely. Boy, was she mad.

As you said, those who serve in the military are heros. So are their families. I really never thought about it until now, but all three of the questions do apply to, or could be asked about them. Now tere's a class of people who deserve our admiration.

Thanks for all your post. You are an insightful guy who blesses us all.

By the way. You mentioned Florida one time. I lived at Tyndal(sp?) AFB in panama city twice.

_________________________
Jim
Male/USA

Top
#386627 - 02/21/12 03:15 AM Re: Question for survivors..... [Re: Jim1104]
phoenix321 Offline


Registered: 09/26/11
Posts: 912
Loc: USA, FL
Jim, Military brat so definitely agree on the wives and kids. My sperm donor was a loser so when he went overseas (remote) I was glad he was gone and dreaded his return. Truth. I consider living in that hell for 17 years more than enough service to America for myself. Yeah, Tyndall twice for me. Thanks for your comments, Jim.

_________________________
Phoenix

A guy opens the front door and sees a snail on his doorstep. He picks up the snail and throws it across the street in a neighbor's yard. A year later, the guy opens the front door and the same snail is on his doorstep. The snail says, "What the f*ck was that about?"

Top
#386641 - 02/21/12 06:43 AM Re: Question for survivors..... [Re: Jim1104]
Dar Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/15/11
Posts: 170
Loc: Missouri
Jim, WHAT a great response and very thoughtful of you. Love it!

Lucy,

Are they truly Remorseful? I think so but hard to trust my perception.


I want you to think of how he acted before all of this came to light. Looking back can you see the signs that you didn't even consider as being a sign of something isn't right with him.
Now YOU knowing those signs of the past, can help you determine if he is really changing and truly remorseful.

Are they just trying to appease you? Probably, people pleaser is his middle name.


People pleaser was my middle name too, I think (IMHO) that we all just wanted to be accepted and liked because of our past.
I wanted to be star in everyones eyes, not the loser that I felt I was. I just wanted a hug and by people liking me was kind of like a hug to me. Now the only HUG I need is from my wife and family. HE has to be open and honest with you and I think you will know when that happens.

Are they really changing? I think so. He has taken some risks and shared some hard things with me.


To me is now telling you things that he may never had told anyone else. That was a big change for me and I am still changing each and every day as the once hard work gets easier.
Try to remeber D day and how much he has changed since then.


Are they working on them selfs to heal? I think so but again hard to trust my perception.


IMHO, Once the hard work begins for him I think that it will become a healing process for you too.
He will be able to be open with you and be able to share his thoughts and fears with you. Nothing more to hide, Nothing more to fear. Your preception will change from fear to hope as this process moves forward.

I hope that you will find that the husband you thought you married is finally coming home to you.

Blessings

_________________________
All I ever wanted was a hug.

Top
#386733 - 02/21/12 07:03 PM Re: Question for survivors..... [Re: Dar]
lucylives Offline


Registered: 04/07/11
Posts: 357
Dar, thank you. That is such a nice post. Yes I see many changes. Just last night as a matter of fact. He shocked me with his courage and I am in awe of him. I shocked myself too.


Top
#386740 - 02/21/12 08:25 PM Re: Question for survivors..... [Re: lucylives]
Dar Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/15/11
Posts: 170
Loc: Missouri
Ahhhhh, The power of love is grand. grin
Little things like last night add up.
Keep moving forward with him Lucy, I am happy for you both.

_________________________
All I ever wanted was a hug.

Top
#386746 - 02/21/12 08:47 PM Re: Question for survivors..... [Re: lucylives]
Avery46 Offline


Registered: 09/23/10
Posts: 1243
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: lucylives
...HERO by facing his issues head on and being courageous even when it is so scary....


The above statement says it all for me.

I never understood the following until I stopped acting out and asked for help.

* Making a commitment/vow,
* keeping the commitment,
* making the ultimate sacrifice,
* being there for each other

These all make relationships including marriage so wonderful.

Peace,
Avery

_________________________
aka DJsport

Top
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >


Moderator:  ModTeam, peroperic2009 

I agree that my access and use of the MaleSurvivor discussion forums and chat room is subject to the terms of this Agreement. AND the sole discretion of MaleSurvivor.
I agree that my use of MaleSurvivor resources are AT-WILL, and that my posting privileges may be terminated at any time, and for any reason by MaleSurvivor.