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#385635 - 02/13/12 10:43 PM Re: How do women view Male victims [Re: phoenix321]
peroperic2009 Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/09/11
Posts: 3603
Loc: South-East Europe
I agree to Philipdeal,
I'm always surrounded by huge bunch of women and they are all very supportive. Generally speaking (well it is my experience) they want to know as much details as possible and they are always trying to be very protective to me.
This thread made me think about my feelings in case that some abuse had happened to some other person to whom I might be attracted. Would I mind related to sexual attraction and in some physical sense, would I have some problematic thoughts regarding that and what would be my feelings?
I'm not some kind of Puritan and I've found that I wouldn't be turned off by such thing. I would be worried for well being of that other person and also in some way more protective but certainly I wouldn't be feeling less attracted sexually.
I hate when people are one dimensional and let say very shallow. In that respect I mean that is impossible for me to see someone just as plain sexual thing and "dirty" as consequence of some abusive past. That is just small fraction of someone's personality. General picture is always much more complex...

Pero

_________________________
My story

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#385644 - 02/13/12 11:00 PM Re: How do women view Male victims [Re: peroperic2009]
phoenix321 Offline


Registered: 09/26/11
Posts: 912
Loc: USA, FL
Originally Posted By: peroperic2009
I agree to Philipdeal,
I'm always surrounded by huge bunch of women and they are all very supportive. Generally speaking (well it is my experience) they want to know as much details as possible and they are always trying to be very protective to me.
This thread made me think about my feelings in case that some abuse had happened to some other person to whom I might be attracted. Would I mind related to sexual attraction and in some physical sense, would I have some problematic thoughts regarding that and what would be my feelings?
I'm not some kind of Puritan and I've found that I wouldn't be turned off by such thing. I would be worried for well being of that other person and also in some way more protective but certainly I wouldn't be feeling less attracted sexually.
I hate when people are one dimensional and let say very shallow. In that respect I mean that is impossible for me to see someone just as plain sexual thing and "dirty" as consequence of some abusive past. That is just small fraction of someone's personality. General picture is always much more complex...

Pero


Pero, it might be culture too. America has become narcissistic (me, me, me) and shallow IMO. I've definitely noticed men and women from Europe seem way more open to stuff (definitely to mental illness in general was my experience). Most of the gay men I've met over the years were definitely open to stuff. Just my experience. American businesses definitely discriminates against anyone with issues in my experience. Sad.

_________________________
Phoenix

A guy opens the front door and sees a snail on his doorstep. He picks up the snail and throws it across the street in a neighbor's yard. A year later, the guy opens the front door and the same snail is on his doorstep. The snail says, "What the f*ck was that about?"

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#385647 - 02/13/12 11:11 PM Re: How do women view Male victims [Re: phoenix321]
RollerCoaster Offline


Registered: 10/23/11
Posts: 47
Loc: PA, USA
This is a really great question and I am no expert, but from my experience here are my 2 cents:
People see in us, what we see in ourselves. Its true that most men/women shun us, but don't we shun ourselves? Most of us lack self-love, dont we? If we love ourselves everyone will love us too. Most people want to be around happy, confident men and its difficult for us to be that way because of our past. I am not telling anything new, but I guess self-love can help us here to attract others. comments ?


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#385653 - 02/13/12 11:40 PM Re: How do women view Male victims [Re: phoenix321]
Dar Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/15/11
Posts: 170
Loc: Missouri
The women (or men) who flee from a survivor who's revealed their abuse are no more prepared to process that information without education and professional assistance than are the survivors themselves.

In many ways, it is more difficult for the supporter to process because they've not lived it; they've not had the benefit of a lifetime to digest and wrestle with the trauma; they may have inaccurate assumptions about CSA that they don't even realize are inaccurate or flat-out wrong. They are in a position of wanting to provide support for something they know nothing about all the while trying to ascertain what it all means for them personally and for the relationship.

Do reveal your trauma to the one with whom you intend to share your life, but do so after you've put in place a plan for providing the supporter with education and professional guidance. To do less is just shooting yourself in the foot.

_________________________
All I ever wanted was a hug.

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#385664 - 02/14/12 12:47 AM Re: How do women view Male victims [Re: RollerCoaster]
phoenix321 Offline


Registered: 09/26/11
Posts: 912
Loc: USA, FL
Originally Posted By: RollerCoaster
This is a really great question and I am no expert, but from my experience here are my 2 cents:
People see in us, what we see in ourselves. Its true that most men/women shun us, but don't we shun ourselves? Most of us lack self-love, dont we? If we love ourselves everyone will love us too. Most people want to be around happy, confident men and its difficult for us to be that way because of our past. I am not telling anything new, but I guess self-love can help us here to attract others. comments ?


Never received love without a cost physically or emotionally so how does this self-love work to people like me that not only had CSA but really shitty emotionally and physically abusive childhoods? Don't tell me see a shrink. I saw 12. None did any good. Fuck therapists. Just was expensive. Really have no clue what love (generic non-sexual love with friends or lovers) happens to be. So, if we never have this love experience (as a baby, small kid in comfort, security, affection w/o cost) in the first place, how do we get it? I'm just sick of the notion that I'm responsible no matter how subtle. And, yeah, not having much self-love is an issue. How do you get it being constantly reminded for decades that I'm worthless? No offense to you dude.

And, please, no solicitations for overpaid shrinks. Pardon my French, but that goes for Mike Lew too. He tells how all this shit affects us then says, "see a shrink" constantly. Hey, Mike Lew, fuck you! Put down the how to fix it in the next volume or you are bullshit. I saw 12, asshole. Didn't make a difference except I got scammed. He ain't the only one. I could name off dozens more that say, you're f*cked, here's how your f*cked, see a shrink. 99% of these books are nothing but slick advertisements for shrinkage. I needed to say that for me and on behalf of the thousands of others who have plunked down good money for an advertisement. Peace.

Note: 300th post. Gee, kinda happened at the right time. Haha



Edited by phoenix321 (02/14/12 12:48 AM)
_________________________
Phoenix

A guy opens the front door and sees a snail on his doorstep. He picks up the snail and throws it across the street in a neighbor's yard. A year later, the guy opens the front door and the same snail is on his doorstep. The snail says, "What the f*ck was that about?"

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#385715 - 02/14/12 11:21 AM Re: How do women view Male victims [Re: phoenix321]
Jim1961 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/10/09
Posts: 1123
Loc: Pa, but likely traveling...
Originally Posted By: phoenix321
Philip, rub it in.


Lol, that was my reaction too. Good for you man.

And the question isn't about "attractiveness", it is about emotional intimacy and acceptance.

Jimmy

_________________________
Loneliness is a power that we possess to give or take away forever. -Yes, Starship Trooper

My Story

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#385756 - 02/14/12 05:09 PM Re: How do women view Male victims [Re: Jim1961]
phoenix321 Offline


Registered: 09/26/11
Posts: 912
Loc: USA, FL
Originally Posted By: Jim1961
Originally Posted By: phoenix321
Philip, rub it in.


Lol, that was my reaction too. Good for you man.

And the question isn't about "attractiveness", it is about emotional intimacy and acceptance.

Jimmy

Exactly. Sex with with many random people isn't intimacy. I did that and it meant nothing and I felt like a hooker.

_________________________
Phoenix

A guy opens the front door and sees a snail on his doorstep. He picks up the snail and throws it across the street in a neighbor's yard. A year later, the guy opens the front door and the same snail is on his doorstep. The snail says, "What the f*ck was that about?"

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#385892 - 02/15/12 11:53 AM Re: How do women view Male victims [Re: phoenix321]
George Offline
Member

Registered: 01/29/01
Posts: 120
Loc: NY metro

My wife was great from the start, even after telling her about the acting out with guys after our marriage. Up to that point of first telling her, she had one step out the door. I had become a walled off ogre and she had about enough of me after nine years of marriage. After, I grew alot as a person, sure there were growing pains, but I'm nowhere near the man I was before I told & dealt with the garbage.

She doesn't see me as less of a man, to the contrary, she sees me more man than most. I know it too, but sometimes the old thoughts pop in my mind, your not good enough, you should've been further, had more by now, etc... I still have to shake it off, because I have more than most & have made due with alot less to get all that I have. Sometimes you can't see the forest for the trees...

I do know that my wife is different, what attracted me to her was her pure huge heart, even at 11 years old I saw it in her & knew that she was the only person on the face of the earth that I could trust. She saved me, because if she was never in my life I would've never connected with girls / women. I though that girls were sugar & spice, us guys were really dirty dogs & that girls / women would smell the shame & brokeness on me like dog shit & run, that I wasn't worthy, etc...

I had been in a mixed (mostly if not always women) support group for a year and a half. It wasn't about csa, but 99% experienced it and of course had issues they were working on. A few of them told me that at first my presence in the goup was scary, till I opened my mouth, and they saw the vulnerability, openess & knew that I understood them. I know in my heart that they all would've accepted me as a husband & father of their children after knowing all that I've done & been through...

I had the wrong idea as a kid, *most* girls / women wouldn't turn & run from us. They are nurturers by instinct. Haven't we all seen nice & decent girls / women attached to what we all know are total losers, all because they are trying to fix / save them? You all have see that haven't you?

Our young mixed up minds come to conclusions without all the facts and they become cemented in. I know that's how it worked with me.

Granted there are exceptions to femails' as nurturers rule, there are plenty of shitty people, m/f who are of no use to anyone, let alone to someone needing to deal with past issues.

**I don't see the need or wisdom in telling anyone details that we are not willing to tell, some should never be told and that is ok in my book.


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#385896 - 02/15/12 12:17 PM Re: How do women view Male victims [Re: George]
Jim1961 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/10/09
Posts: 1123
Loc: Pa, but likely traveling...
Oh my George... this was tough to read!!! But I am happy for you (and OH SO JEALOUS too... lol)

Originally Posted By: George
I had the wrong idea as a kid, *most* girls / women wouldn't turn & run from us. They are nurturers by instinct. Haven't we all seen nice & decent girls / women attached to what we all know are total losers, all because they are trying to fix / save them? You all have see that haven't you?


Oh, stop making SENSE!!! smile

Yes, I have seen many beautiful women with the BIGGEST loser (drug addicts, bike gang members, criminals...) and felt like it was SO unfair. Because I was the "nice quiet kid."

I also know that the women I was exposed to as a kid (mom who emotionally abandoned us, live-in "nanny" who was the b!tch from HELL) have tainted my view of women.

So yeah, I project stuff on my wife. Maybe I don't give her enough credit, but of course I could make a list of 10 reasons (experiences) that would conclude "don't EVER be vulnerable with her like that!!!"

But then I feel like I am still in my emotional cage. 13 years old, alone in my bedroom, knowing that the world is "out there" and I am stuck "in here." So sadness sets in....

And I do wonder how much is real and how much I project onto her...

So darn you George!!! smile

Jimmy


_________________________
Loneliness is a power that we possess to give or take away forever. -Yes, Starship Trooper

My Story

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#385908 - 02/15/12 01:20 PM Re: How do women view Male victims [Re: Jim1961]
George Offline
Member

Registered: 01/29/01
Posts: 120
Loc: NY metro

Jimmy,

My older brother is 6 years older than me, he's had mental issues since 15, a diagnosed paranoid scitsophrenic (sp?). Even as a kid it didn't register in my dopey mind that even him, had any girl he wanted. He is very goodlooking (as I've been told we all were / are, but I never saw it in myself) He was the incarnation of John Travolta / Saturday Night Fever, with the dance moves, clothes and all. He with all his problems was getting laid like no one else, with the cream of the crop girls too. Even as a 19y/o with no car or license, I remember us dropping him off at mansions to meet up with his high class girlfriends. He was unbelievable. He laid more pipe than all the plumbers in town!

This was all right in front of me, and I still couldn't get past my own emotional cage. I even remember a couple girls expressing interest in me as a teenager & I just couldn't take the chance, I had written myself off by that point with girls.

It's such a shame how we lock ourselves way, we become our own jailers... all because someone had to get their rocks off.

** About six months ago I was talking to my older brother, he was telling me how his soldier doesn't salute like it used to, due to meds, age, etc... I told him, he's lived the sexual lifetime of ten men, that his memories should be enough to live on now... he just grinned smile

George


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