Newest Members
JayNL, Robert Barrett, lostsoul824, beatcook, MassGuy
12279 Registered Users
Today's Birthdays
cainrafael (28), GL (67), JohnP725 (66), Lloydy (61), Marie-TwoOfUs (35)
Who's Online
2 registered (2 invisible), 26 Guests and 4 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
12279 Members
73 Forums
63185 Topics
441811 Posts

Max Online: 418 @ 07/02/12 07:29 AM
Twitter
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >
Topic Options
#385252 - 02/11/12 02:01 AM Brand New really needing advice
KL24 Offline


Registered: 02/10/12
Posts: 21
Hello all, I want to start by thanking everyone for being brave by A. sharing experiences and b. sticking by loved ones through healing...
I am brand new to this, i love a man and our relationship was great then suddenly little red flags turned into burning down buildings and the relationship fell completely apart... he had begun therapy for his sexual abuse as a child and in the midst of his therapy he and i really fell apart.

I felt i had to distance myself from him because i began feeling that he did not love me and he was too needy i found myself emotionally exauhsted in a way i had NEVER experienced before, well after having done research and gotten involved i have come to understand much of what was actually being said in his actions and words towards me, that what he was going through was so much more involved then if he loved me or not...( i really admire all of you, MS and FF of MS.. you guys are brave, courageous, patient, faithful, )

i am looking for some advice, he and i do love each other, and while we are not in a relationship right now, for many reason... we are close friends and i am someone he feels safe with through this process... i don't have anyone who has walked with someone through this, so any advice i can get would be really great.

like: boundary advice? he and i are not "dating" we have set up some strict sexual boundaries, time spending boundaries etc.. trying really hard to be friends

also: has anyone struggled with worry that they may be becoming 'unhealthily involved' in their survivors healing process?

also: are there symptoms or markers of an unhealthy recovery process... sometimes he wants me around sometimes he doesn't, and i don't want to emotionally damage myself but at the same time i want to be patient but at the same time i want to be able to feel 'independent' needing lots of advice


Top
#385253 - 02/11/12 02:39 AM Re: Brand New really needing advice [Re: KL24]
whome Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/07/11
Posts: 1734
Loc: Johannesburg South Africa
HI KL

Sorry that you are going through this. There is a blessing to all this and that is that you are not married yet. My wife and I have been married for 20 years and we are now going through this phase of healing. There a lot of pain that I have caused her over the years.
So to try and answer some of the questions, ans I will start with the one that I feel is most important (personal opinion)and you didn't really put it out as a question.
Quote:
I felt i had to distance myself from him because i began feeling that he did not love me and he was too needy i found myself emotionally exauhsted in a way i had NEVER experienced before,


This is perhaps an important move, I was never able to distance myself from my wife and kid for fear of hurting them, and I still struggle with the finding myself thing.
Odd thing is that although we need space to discover ourselves, there are times where we need love and a gentle word, just to remind ourselves that there is someone that cares for us.

This process can be extremely draining to you though. So what I say next is very important or you.
Get yourself support, join a group like CODA or Al-Anon, He might not be an alcoholic, but the behaviours are the same. YOU NEED SUPPORT.

Quote:
are there symptoms or markers of an unhealthy recovery process... sometimes he wants me around sometimes he doesn't, and i don't want to emotionally damage myself but at the same time i want to be patient but at the same time i want to be able to feel 'independent' needing lots of advice


Recovery is so different for the individual, and the only unhealthy recovery is no recovery at all. The best approach here is to treat him as you would a good friend, be there for him but don't get involved sexually right now, sounds harsh but its actually the kindest thing to do. Let him heal and if he really works at it he can get a long way into healing in a year or so.

Quote:
also: has anyone struggled with worry that they may be becoming 'unhealthily involved' in their survivors healing process?


My wife experienced this and she then threw the baby out with the bath water, in hind sight I cant blame her, but it hurt me more when she said "I don't care what you do or what you are going through" that was for me even more rejection.
This is why you need a support group, to teach you not to become Co Dependent.

Quote:
boundary advice? he and i are not "dating" we have set up some strict sexual boundaries, time spending boundaries etc.. trying really hard to be friends


I know this is hard to do, but stick with it, or at least try. Mostly don't let him use you, eg: sex when he is sad or down, make him work for it, he must be charming, "treat you right" be good to you, be a real gent and then for this he is rewarded. Don't reward if he is acting out being pushy or mean and horrible. He needs to learn what being a man is all about.

Remember one important fact HIS HEALING IS NOT YOUR PROBLEM. You need to focus on yourself, care for you, and in your strength he will find peace. If you try to heal for him or change yourself to make him happy or more comfortable, then you are in for a lot of hurt. WE DON'T WANT TWO BROKEN PEOPLE HERE, one is bad enough.

You are in for a rough time, and so is he, but healing is possible. The nicest thing is that you will discover that you are with a better man, than the one that you originally started going out with.
I hope that my experience helps you, and feel free to PM me if you want to.

Heal well
Stay strong
Martin

_________________________
Matrix Men South Africa
Survivors Supporting Each other
Matrix Men Blog

Top
#385255 - 02/11/12 03:10 AM Re: Brand New really needing advice [Re: KL24]
tomebamboo Offline


Registered: 02/08/12
Posts: 4
Loc: WA
Greetings kl24,

First I would like to honor your compassion and empathy for your loved one, regardless of where you are in your relationship. This is a dis__ease that can effect not just the survivors but their relationships with lovers, friends, family, employment, ect.. Understand that you are not alone although it does take an honest, strong and humble being, not everyone can withstand the survivors fall out. I have lost much to this "Survival". If you to continue to support your friend please remember that you need to take of yourself even if that means space apart at times. Its the strength of our supporters that carries the weight of our woes and hardship. At times it wont seem fair to you, to give of yourself and you may feel emotionally drained.
A childhood is a time of foundation building, and its the "village" of people surrounding the child that carries, installs and balances the building blocks of life that we all need. Without the proper foundation to lean on at difficult times, one can begin to crumble from within.
With desire and support he can be helped as well as yourself. This site can be just one avenue, and I recommend a support group. Such as yourself, therpy, a support group, heathy diet, exercise and perhaps drugs if nessary.

Keep the faith, will and remember you yourself can only give so much.

Peace onto you friend and feel free to contact me,

Tomebamboo


Top
#385267 - 02/11/12 08:49 AM Re: Brand New really needing advice [Re: tomebamboo]
GoodHope Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/05/11
Posts: 413
The guys gave excellent advice, As someone who has personally benefitted from Whome's advice in my early days on the board, it's gold. I'd also add to read. Understanding how being raped as a child impacts him as an adult has helped me to not take things as personally as I was.

My current therapist is a sanity saver. She has worked extensively w CSA which helps me tremendously because I'm not a survivor. She lets me know how my expectations--based on having a childhood uninterrupted by early sexual trauma--don't make sense to someone who has, and why. Take the time to find someone who specializes.

_________________________
Wife of a survivor

Top
#385268 - 02/11/12 08:50 AM Re: Brand New really needing advice [Re: GoodHope]
GoodHope Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/05/11
Posts: 413
Whoops! Forgot to tell you "welcome" and to let you know you can PM me too.

_________________________
Wife of a survivor

Top
#385288 - 02/11/12 11:41 AM Re: Brand New really needing advice [Re: whome]
KL24 Offline


Registered: 02/10/12
Posts: 21
Wow, tears in my eyes. thank you everyone.

Thank you for your support and post, i think the most amazing feeling about this, is right now i don't feel alone in this process... I have not been able to lean on friends or family for this process because i want to protect his healing process, i have friends who are aware of the change in our relationship but they do not understand the complexities within the decision to break up- so having this group means a lot to me,

i have contacted a therapist and will be starting sessions next week. thank you for the support of not sexually engaging sometimes i feel guilty for not partaking, but the affirmation of that decisions is very helpful.

i also want to thank you for being honest and taking time to honestly share with me. i really look forward to getting to know everyone on here so much, i know i have much to learn- i am open to any advice thank you.


also open to resources, i have been on the website 1in6, i am reading 'victims no longer.' I really have been looking into co-dependency to make sure i am not crossing boundaries to create an unhealthy situation, i will look up support groups though i had not thought about that, thank you!!





Edited by KL24 (02/11/12 12:04 PM)

Top
#385305 - 02/11/12 12:57 PM Re: Brand New really needing advice [Re: whome]
westchesterguy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/13/09
Posts: 421
Loc: Westchester County NY
Originally Posted By: whome
...HIS HEALING IS NOT YOUR PROBLEM. You need to focus on yourself, care for you, and in your strength he will find peace. If you try to heal for him or change yourself to make him happy or more comfortable, then you are in for a lot of hurt. WE DON'T WANT TWO BROKEN PEOPLE HERE, one is bad enough.


so well said, martin, i'm just repeating. :-)

_________________________
Jeff

Top
#385320 - 02/11/12 02:16 PM Re: Brand New really needing advice [Re: KL24]
herowannabe Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/01/11
Posts: 386
Loc: USA
Quote:
also open to resources, i have been on the website 1in6, i am reading 'victims no longer.' I really have been looking into co-dependency to make sure i am not crossing boundaries to create an unhealthy situation, i will look up support groups though i had not thought about that, thank you!!


Hi and Welcome, KL24!

You've gotten great advice (above) from both survivors and supporters. I second every word they've offered you.

You asked for resources. As a supporter who really needed to focus on myself, my values, what I could accept and live with, what I should expect from my husband-in-recovery, I found profound help at www.recoverynation.com. There, I am working through the "Partner's Workshop", which consists of "lessons" I go through. Each lesson teaches about the adult left behind in the wake of CSA, and the ways he/she may be acting out: alcoholism, drug abuse, compulsive masturbation, love/sexual addiction, gambling addiction, etc. The workshops are free and a "Coach" will pop in from time-to-time to comment on your work, offer advice, answer questions, suggest other resources, etc. There's also a workshop designed for survivors as well as one for couples to work through together.

I highly recommend this site, which kills two birds with one stone: putting the focus on YOU and teaching you how to best support HIM!

Priceless!

PM anytime! We share your heavy heart and your eagerness to be of loving support to one who has, and is, suffering so much!

Hugs-
herowannabe

P.S. IMHO, the ultimate measure of gauging my husband's progress is that he was able to generously focus on the pain he'd caused me (by his acting out sexually). He owned his destructive actions, expressed and practiced healthy remorse (not crippling shame/guilt) and has a clear goal of becoming a healthy, productive husband, lover, father and friend. His efforts feed my conviction to be supportive; my support feeds his efforts to recover.

_________________________


For I know the plans I have made for you. Plans to give you a future and a hope. Jeremiah 29:11


Top
#385323 - 02/11/12 02:36 PM Re: Brand New really needing advice [Re: westchesterguy]
KL24 Offline


Registered: 02/10/12
Posts: 21
Westchesterguy and Martin,

i know i mentally understand that his healing is not my problem but how do i apply this practically? too ambiguous? sorry if it is, i just really want to make sure i have these lines in my head... its so hard to sit back and watch and sometimes feel helpless... i know this is KEY... his healing is not my problem... its so important...
i think i am looking for a little more elaboration if possible. you guys are so great!! thank you!


Top
#385324 - 02/11/12 02:38 PM Re: Brand New really needing advice [Re: herowannabe]
KL24 Offline


Registered: 02/10/12
Posts: 21
herowannabe i just went to the website!! thank you for offering that information. i am going to get started tonight... thank you thank you! i am so blessed by all of you.
hugs!


Top
#385326 - 02/11/12 03:07 PM Re: Brand New really needing advice [Re: KL24]
westchesterguy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/13/09
Posts: 421
Loc: Westchester County NY
Originally Posted By: KL24
...i think i am looking for a little more elaboration if possible. you guys are so great!! thank you!


from my perspective, yes it is very difficult to sit back and watch someone go through a great struggle. and i think that by our very nature -- we want to save him.

but it becomes a matter of circumstances, right? let's say this was not about childhood abuse. instead your friend lost his job - also traumatic in this country nowadays - but you see he is out there, networking, applying, etc., and you yourself put feelers out there too. you can turn him on to a lead, etc. you can be an "active participant" in helping him find a job while being there as well to break dishes in frustration with so many HR people not even returning his calls. right?

overcoming abuse is completely different. first, the time element is out the window -- there isn't a measure of how long it takes. and unlike that example above, i am not entirely sure how one can be such an "active participant" in that process. not to say you can't support him and learn about recovery - for that is helpful.

hitting the recovery process -- is almost as though we turn 40 but have forgotten everything we ever learned. at 40 we have to relearn the alphabet. we have learn multiplication -- again. how to eat and kick ball - again. etc.

you realize from being around a child - you can't "learn that alphabet" for him, right? but most assuredly he'll learn it all in first grade (i.e. succinct amount of time.)

all you can do is keep holding up those flash cards and repeating a,b,c,d.... repeat after me... and help him learn - without turning him off to the learning process by being too pushy.

meanwhile, you have to balance your role in "reteaching" with taking care of yourself - your career, your needs, your family, right?

i'm really oversimplifying this and may not even be doing justice. what are you prepared to learn about him as he navigates his way through the recovery? as you may have already read here - this whole same-sex attraction and gay issue seem to be a major theme. there is a whole issue about re-relating with people, self-doubt and guilt.

reticence to even have anyone involved.

simple words with tremendously disparate outcomes! smile

i know this term may sound selfish but "take care of yourself first" is a very responsible approach under these circumstances. and perhaps even by doing so and by communicating that you are doing so to him, you are actually "helping him to relearn how" to take care of himself first too -- for perhaps the very first time in his life.

_________________________
Jeff

Top
#385334 - 02/11/12 03:48 PM Re: Brand New really needing advice [Re: herowannabe]
ksequoia Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/16/11
Posts: 92
Loc: NYC
Going to RN to check it out. Thanks so much! K.-


Top
#385357 - 02/11/12 07:53 PM Re: Brand New really needing advice [Re: ksequoia]
KL24 Offline


Registered: 02/10/12
Posts: 21
that was the perfect break down for me, thank you. it really gives me a lot to think about...
it gives me more clarity regarding my role as a close friend, not too simple at all... it was a really great analogy for my role in this process.


Top
#385552 - 02/13/12 09:03 AM Re: Brand New really needing advice [Re: whome]
Castle Offline


Registered: 10/03/09
Posts: 727
Loc: NJ
Originally Posted By: whome
.....

I know this is hard to do, but stick with it, or at least try. Mostly don't let him use you, eg: sex when he is sad or down, make him work for it, he must be charming, "treat you right" be good to you, be a real gent and then for this he is rewarded. Don't reward if he is acting out being pushy or mean and horrible. He needs to learn what being a man is all about.

.....



I do agree that one should not "use" their partner, I do have some significant troubles with the other parts...but thats just me, and I wont debate, jsut thought I would mention i disagree....sex imo , should not be "used" by either side in a marriage or relationship, and certainly not a reward based effort like a dog.



Edited by Castle (02/13/12 09:05 AM)
_________________________

My posts can self destruct at any time..read them while you can.

Top
#385659 - 02/14/12 12:31 AM Re: Brand New really needing advice [Re: Castle]
whome Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/07/11
Posts: 1734
Loc: Johannesburg South Africa
Well Castle, as always stoking the fire.

I write things on this forum, to support the overlooked, suffering and often damaged spouses. These poor partners have been hit with a curse that they did not sign on for.

So not every thing I say is going to be pleasant for Male survivors to read, or for that matter Politically correct, But that is not the reason that I am writing these comments. If bearing in mind that "Sex" is the cause of all the problems on this board, then there should be a lesson to the survivor as to what a Healthy sexual relationship actually is. It is not al-right to carry on with dysfunctional behaviours once you have "come out as a survivor"

Partners here are in shock and looking for advise rather than confusion and division.
So when writing a response to a F&F comment please bear this in mind.

Not everything on the board has to become a spat and Bun fight.

Heal well
Martin

_________________________
Matrix Men South Africa
Survivors Supporting Each other
Matrix Men Blog

Top
#385712 - 02/14/12 11:03 AM Re: Brand New really needing advice [Re: whome]
Castle Offline


Registered: 10/03/09
Posts: 727
Loc: NJ
Martin, I respectfully disagreed and said so, there will be no fight...I am entitled to my opinion though...TY.

_________________________

My posts can self destruct at any time..read them while you can.

Top
#385718 - 02/14/12 11:57 AM Re: Brand New really needing advice [Re: Castle]
whome Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/07/11
Posts: 1734
Loc: Johannesburg South Africa
Then respectfully send your Opinion to me in a PM, and respect the fact that the people reading this might get confused by the conflicting ideas.
We are all entitled to our opinions but not at the expense of someone else's healing and well being.




_________________________
Matrix Men South Africa
Survivors Supporting Each other
Matrix Men Blog

Top
#385723 - 02/14/12 12:58 PM Re: Brand New really needing advice [Re: whome]
Castle Offline


Registered: 10/03/09
Posts: 727
Loc: NJ
Again I disagree, and I won't do what you want me to do and have "our" baggage interfear with anything I say or do...you may write me in PM anytime you want....I dont happen to think that men should have to "earn" sex...its just my feelings, and people can use their own judgement about what they want to take form a post or leave a post.

My positon s just that, one guys/survivors opinion trying to help make a difference for people going through recovery.

This Isn't about "YOU", nor did I post because you said X, this was about a part of a post suggesting we should have to earn sex, you are taking it personal because the views are from ME and you dont like me, which is ok...and you think instead of me adding some differnt insight into a situation, im jsut "stoking the fire".

Recovery is confusing, and talking about all of it helps even if we dont agree.


Ty for your concern for survivors.


_________________________

My posts can self destruct at any time..read them while you can.

Top
#385733 - 02/14/12 02:29 PM Re: Brand New really needing advice [Re: Castle]
Esposa Offline
F&F Greeter
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/19/11
Posts: 678
Loc: NJ
Whome, I am totally with you. Sometimes redefining sex feels awkward or manipulative - but most initial practice of anything often does. And being acted out upon, as a spouse, is extremely painful. It is one of the eternal conflicts for a supporter, how much do I give, how do I give, when do I stop giving. Sharing is different.



Edited by Esposa (02/14/12 02:29 PM)

Top
#385735 - 02/14/12 02:32 PM Re: Brand New really needing advice [Re: whome]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denver, CO
Originally Posted By: whome
If bearing in mind that "Sex" is the cause of all the problems on this board...

I don't know about anyone else, but "sex" is not the cause of all my problems I have shared on this board. It was "abuse" - sexual in nature, not "sex" - abusive in nature. For me they are distinct and separate.

just my 2 cents

_________________________
the story
    https://1in6.org/men/bristlecone/mark-krueger/

Kirkridge - October 2008
Alta - September 2012
Alta - September 2013

Top
#385747 - 02/14/12 04:14 PM Re: Brand New really needing advice [Re: MarkK]
Esposa Offline
F&F Greeter
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/19/11
Posts: 678
Loc: NJ
Markk - alot of things I have read about talking to my children about being safe deal with this exact thing. It ain't sex. It's abuse. Abuse comes in different packaging.


Top
#385788 - 02/14/12 08:11 PM Re: Brand New really needing advice [Re: MarkK]
herowannabe Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/01/11
Posts: 386
Loc: USA
Whome-
I get what you're saying, and as a female, I bristle at a man getting his nose out of joint at the thought that he should have to sexually approach a woman respectfully and with the intention of sharing love/making love- NOT just having sex.

Men like you, Whome, understand making love is a privilege that IS earned, while "sex" is something you just take from another. I get it and thank you for your thought.

MarkK-
Great thought, and you are 100% correct. Unfortunately, for many supporters in F&F, what's brought us here is sex- specifically the sexual acting out of our partners. Many of us struggle with our survivor's intimacy disorders, which affect our psyches and our marriages. That sexual acting out against us, to many of us, WAS abuse. So, in a roundabout way, we're all here for shades of the same thing: healing of abuse. Supporters have one extra challenge, and that is to go beyond our own hurt in order to support our survivors.

Back to the original post some time soon???
herowannabe

_________________________


For I know the plans I have made for you. Plans to give you a future and a hope. Jeremiah 29:11


Top
#385838 - 02/15/12 12:31 AM Re: Brand New really needing advice [Re: herowannabe]
whome Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/07/11
Posts: 1734
Loc: Johannesburg South Africa
The original post is the fact that a friend is in pain and is needing advice.

Kl24. I am really sorry that I got side tracked.

Please feel free to PM me if you need/ want any further advice, My mail box is always open.

Heal well
Martin


_________________________
Matrix Men South Africa
Survivors Supporting Each other
Matrix Men Blog

Top
#385910 - 02/15/12 01:31 PM Re: Brand New really needing advice [Re: whome]
KL24 Offline


Registered: 02/10/12
Posts: 21
Martin,

i really appreciated your advice, i felt like someone was affirming me in a broken place... there are a lot of confusing emotions as a friend to a survivor and a lot of times it seems easier to stuff away my emotions because they are less important then what my friend is going through, therefore having you articulate thoughts on my behalf as a male, as a male survivor made me feel very affirmed and comforted, thank you so much for it.i really felt like you stepped into a position that i needed to be filled, i need someone to let me know that my feelings of hurt are still valid rather then allowing myself to compare my hurt to my friends hurt. that is a challenge...

thank you for taking time to post about this topic with me


Top
#385956 - 02/15/12 11:40 PM Re: Brand New really needing advice [Re: KL24]
herowannabe Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/01/11
Posts: 386
Loc: USA
Quote:
to stuff away my emotions because they are less important then what my friend is going through


If this statement were placed into a slot machine, you'd have just hit the jackpot!

As a supporter, THAT is EXACTLY how we all feel. And it is maddening until we come to the realization that our emotions are not less important than what our survivors are going through. Our hurts are just "different" than theirs. Just like two crayons are different colors, they are still crayons! Pain is pain.

Your attention is currently focused on your beloved because you've prioritized properly, as a sound, mature adult does. His needs are perhaps the most immediate, but it doesn't mean your needs are inconsequential.

I hope F&F will help you control your own bleeding until your beloved's hemmoraging is under control. Then, when you feel it is time, let us help you get bandaged up properly.

Be easy on YOU! You matter, too!

Hugs-
herowannabe

_________________________


For I know the plans I have made for you. Plans to give you a future and a hope. Jeremiah 29:11


Top
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >


Moderator:  ModTeam, peroperic2009 

I agree that my access and use of the MaleSurvivor discussion forums and chat room is subject to the terms of this Agreement. AND the sole discretion of MaleSurvivor.
I agree that my use of MaleSurvivor resources are AT-WILL, and that my posting privileges may be terminated at any time, and for any reason by MaleSurvivor.