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#385326 - 02/11/12 03:07 PM Re: Brand New really needing advice [Re: KL24]
westchesterguy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/13/09
Posts: 421
Loc: Westchester County NY
Originally Posted By: KL24
...i think i am looking for a little more elaboration if possible. you guys are so great!! thank you!


from my perspective, yes it is very difficult to sit back and watch someone go through a great struggle. and i think that by our very nature -- we want to save him.

but it becomes a matter of circumstances, right? let's say this was not about childhood abuse. instead your friend lost his job - also traumatic in this country nowadays - but you see he is out there, networking, applying, etc., and you yourself put feelers out there too. you can turn him on to a lead, etc. you can be an "active participant" in helping him find a job while being there as well to break dishes in frustration with so many HR people not even returning his calls. right?

overcoming abuse is completely different. first, the time element is out the window -- there isn't a measure of how long it takes. and unlike that example above, i am not entirely sure how one can be such an "active participant" in that process. not to say you can't support him and learn about recovery - for that is helpful.

hitting the recovery process -- is almost as though we turn 40 but have forgotten everything we ever learned. at 40 we have to relearn the alphabet. we have learn multiplication -- again. how to eat and kick ball - again. etc.

you realize from being around a child - you can't "learn that alphabet" for him, right? but most assuredly he'll learn it all in first grade (i.e. succinct amount of time.)

all you can do is keep holding up those flash cards and repeating a,b,c,d.... repeat after me... and help him learn - without turning him off to the learning process by being too pushy.

meanwhile, you have to balance your role in "reteaching" with taking care of yourself - your career, your needs, your family, right?

i'm really oversimplifying this and may not even be doing justice. what are you prepared to learn about him as he navigates his way through the recovery? as you may have already read here - this whole same-sex attraction and gay issue seem to be a major theme. there is a whole issue about re-relating with people, self-doubt and guilt.

reticence to even have anyone involved.

simple words with tremendously disparate outcomes! smile

i know this term may sound selfish but "take care of yourself first" is a very responsible approach under these circumstances. and perhaps even by doing so and by communicating that you are doing so to him, you are actually "helping him to relearn how" to take care of himself first too -- for perhaps the very first time in his life.

_________________________
Jeff

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#385334 - 02/11/12 03:48 PM Re: Brand New really needing advice [Re: herowannabe]
ksequoia Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/16/11
Posts: 92
Loc: NYC
Going to RN to check it out. Thanks so much! K.-


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#385357 - 02/11/12 07:53 PM Re: Brand New really needing advice [Re: ksequoia]
KL24 Offline


Registered: 02/10/12
Posts: 21
that was the perfect break down for me, thank you. it really gives me a lot to think about...
it gives me more clarity regarding my role as a close friend, not too simple at all... it was a really great analogy for my role in this process.


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#385552 - 02/13/12 09:03 AM Re: Brand New really needing advice [Re: whome]
Castle Offline


Registered: 10/03/09
Posts: 731
Loc: NJ
Originally Posted By: whome
.....

I know this is hard to do, but stick with it, or at least try. Mostly don't let him use you, eg: sex when he is sad or down, make him work for it, he must be charming, "treat you right" be good to you, be a real gent and then for this he is rewarded. Don't reward if he is acting out being pushy or mean and horrible. He needs to learn what being a man is all about.

.....



I do agree that one should not "use" their partner, I do have some significant troubles with the other parts...but thats just me, and I wont debate, jsut thought I would mention i disagree....sex imo , should not be "used" by either side in a marriage or relationship, and certainly not a reward based effort like a dog.



Edited by Castle (02/13/12 09:05 AM)
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My posts can self destruct at any time..read them while you can.

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#385659 - 02/14/12 12:31 AM Re: Brand New really needing advice [Re: Castle]
whome Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/07/11
Posts: 1734
Loc: Johannesburg South Africa
Well Castle, as always stoking the fire.

I write things on this forum, to support the overlooked, suffering and often damaged spouses. These poor partners have been hit with a curse that they did not sign on for.

So not every thing I say is going to be pleasant for Male survivors to read, or for that matter Politically correct, But that is not the reason that I am writing these comments. If bearing in mind that "Sex" is the cause of all the problems on this board, then there should be a lesson to the survivor as to what a Healthy sexual relationship actually is. It is not al-right to carry on with dysfunctional behaviours once you have "come out as a survivor"

Partners here are in shock and looking for advise rather than confusion and division.
So when writing a response to a F&F comment please bear this in mind.

Not everything on the board has to become a spat and Bun fight.

Heal well
Martin

_________________________
Matrix Men South Africa
Survivors Supporting Each other
Matrix Men Blog

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#385712 - 02/14/12 11:03 AM Re: Brand New really needing advice [Re: whome]
Castle Offline


Registered: 10/03/09
Posts: 731
Loc: NJ
Martin, I respectfully disagreed and said so, there will be no fight...I am entitled to my opinion though...TY.

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My posts can self destruct at any time..read them while you can.

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#385718 - 02/14/12 11:57 AM Re: Brand New really needing advice [Re: Castle]
whome Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/07/11
Posts: 1734
Loc: Johannesburg South Africa
Then respectfully send your Opinion to me in a PM, and respect the fact that the people reading this might get confused by the conflicting ideas.
We are all entitled to our opinions but not at the expense of someone else's healing and well being.




_________________________
Matrix Men South Africa
Survivors Supporting Each other
Matrix Men Blog

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#385723 - 02/14/12 12:58 PM Re: Brand New really needing advice [Re: whome]
Castle Offline


Registered: 10/03/09
Posts: 731
Loc: NJ
Again I disagree, and I won't do what you want me to do and have "our" baggage interfear with anything I say or do...you may write me in PM anytime you want....I dont happen to think that men should have to "earn" sex...its just my feelings, and people can use their own judgement about what they want to take form a post or leave a post.

My positon s just that, one guys/survivors opinion trying to help make a difference for people going through recovery.

This Isn't about "YOU", nor did I post because you said X, this was about a part of a post suggesting we should have to earn sex, you are taking it personal because the views are from ME and you dont like me, which is ok...and you think instead of me adding some differnt insight into a situation, im jsut "stoking the fire".

Recovery is confusing, and talking about all of it helps even if we dont agree.


Ty for your concern for survivors.


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My posts can self destruct at any time..read them while you can.

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#385733 - 02/14/12 02:29 PM Re: Brand New really needing advice [Re: Castle]
Esposa Offline
F&F Greeter
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/19/11
Posts: 708
Loc: NJ
Whome, I am totally with you. Sometimes redefining sex feels awkward or manipulative - but most initial practice of anything often does. And being acted out upon, as a spouse, is extremely painful. It is one of the eternal conflicts for a supporter, how much do I give, how do I give, when do I stop giving. Sharing is different.



Edited by Esposa (02/14/12 02:29 PM)

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#385735 - 02/14/12 02:32 PM Re: Brand New really needing advice [Re: whome]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2503
Loc: Denver, CO
Originally Posted By: whome
If bearing in mind that "Sex" is the cause of all the problems on this board...

I don't know about anyone else, but "sex" is not the cause of all my problems I have shared on this board. It was "abuse" - sexual in nature, not "sex" - abusive in nature. For me they are distinct and separate.

just my 2 cents

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the story
    https://1in6.org/men/bristlecone/mark-krueger/

Kirkridge - October 2008
Alta - September 2012
Alta - September 2013

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