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#383250 - 01/23/12 05:23 PM The Lion Sleeps ...
Chase Eric Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/25/10
Posts: 1308
Joe Paterno is dead. I have seen nothing mentioned yet here in the forum about that, but thought I'd open that door here - even if there is really nothing more to say. The fact is, it's caused some strong mixed feelings with me and I thought I'd share them.

I've already stated here in another thread where I'm at with how Joe rates in the entire mess. He had an amazing opportunity and could have "saved the game" for those kids - but failed. He may not have been the intended receiver, but when he caught the ball, he just didn't carry it.

I feel sadness, I suppose, more than anger. Disappointment more than rage. Ultimately I see him more as a victim than a villain, but am well aware there are those here who would differ and probably for good reason. It had a different meaning for the great Joe DiMaggio perhaps, but when the truth came out, these words immediately danced through my head: "Say it ain't so, Joe! Say it ain't so..."

I wonder still if in his heart he did what he thought he must, but suffered the weakness of not wanting to look any further than he had to. It seems a common flaw. Too common. Did those demons haunt him in his final days? Could I have made a similar mistake had I never been molested and found myself in his predicament? As a victim I KNOW what it means all too well to have others turn their heads while the abuse went on. But can I throw those stones? Am I so sure that JoePa himself wasn't a victim who dealt with it by repressing and forgetting. Could that have driven his decisions?

Sandusky hung around for years after Paterno was aware of his misadventures, and when all is said and done, that is very difficult to reconcile. In fact, I CANNOT reconcile it. Joe carried the torch for so many, but fumbled with those very important victims of a fellow assistant coach, and it became tragedy all around.

I suppose a great quote from Senator Thomas Hart Benton against John C. Calhoun - a fellow Democrat - would sum it up for me. The animosity between the two senators was as intense as the political discourse seems today - so intense that the nation was soon to split apart into Civil War. Yet when Calhoun was on his death bed - despite the issues between them being red hot - Benton declined an opportunity to attack, saying, "Benton will not speak today, sir, for when God Almighty lays his hands on a man, Benton takes his off."

Rest in peace, JoePa - but even more importantly, I hope those you would not or could not save find peace as well. If their journey is anything like mine has been, it will be long, grueling and endless.

_________________________



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#383257 - 01/23/12 05:59 PM Re: The Lion Sleeps ... [Re: Chase Eric]
Sailor John Offline


Registered: 10/04/11
Posts: 307
Loc: Newfoundland & Labrador
I would like to think that if I wasn't abused, I would do the right thing and pushed it further but I'll never know. I can still have a mean and vicious temper. What I do know is that now, having been abused, I think I would kill anybody I caught abusing anybody and not even worry about the consequences. They are lower than a snakes belly and that's all they deserve.

_________________________
I will mourn the teenager I never was and strive to make that dot of light way out in the far reaches of the end of the tunnel turn into a bright sun.

WE ARE NOT VICTIMS. WE ARE THE SURVIVORS!!!

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#383314 - 01/23/12 11:39 PM Re: The Lion Sleeps ... [Re: Sailor John]
Run4fun Offline


Registered: 12/17/11
Posts: 14
Loc: CA

Chase Eric wrote, "Did those demons haunt him in his final days?"

In the obituary, the New York Times quoted Paterno saying, “This is a tragedy,” he said. “It is one of the great sorrows of my life. With the benefit of hindsight, I wish I had done more.”

I don't want to let Paterno off the hook because he was part of an institutional system that allowed Sandusky to continue his actions for years. But I do think the responsibility for reporting the incident at the university level belonged to the athletic director to whom Paterno reported the incident and the vice president above him. These are highly paid administrators whose job is to respond and report incidents of criminal conduct on campus. The person who witnessed the events should have gone to police -- that he went to Paterno instead speaks volumes. But once it got into the system the administrators needed to respond. (That's why they were indicted.) They failed not only an ethical test but also failed to do their jobs -- hurting not only the university but also the kids who were abused.

The real sad part of all of this is that it reflects a larger social problem. When confronted with CSA people 1) would rather look the other way 2) don't know what to do and just do nothing 3) are completely freaked out and can't confront it 4) protect the perpetrators 5) protect the system (family or institution) 6) hope it will all go away. Of course, I could say all of those things about myself and the way I have responded over the years to having been abused.


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#383323 - 01/24/12 12:23 AM Re: The Lion Sleeps ... [Re: Run4fun]
phoenix321 Offline


Registered: 09/26/11
Posts: 912
Loc: USA, FL
Paterno's biggest problem is he chose football over kids lives even though he claimed he was morally superior. He ran PSU. He claimed moral vision. Paterno clearly chose the football program and an old friend over what was the right thing to do. He didn't even report it when he was told what happened because he didn't want to ruin anyone's weekend. That says a lot about his hypocrisy. It might ruin someone's weekend so he waited till Monday.

Maybe Paterno should have apologized to all those kids the day the day it broke and retired. Instead, he ignored it and said, I'll quit when I'm damn good and ready. The "great sorrow" he was referring to was some football legacy. I should have done more so this didn't blow up in my face is what he meant. Apparently, he had no conscience whatsoever and his "great sorrow" was nothing more than him lamenting on how it only affected him. Me no get involved.

All of PSU needs to be exposed and investigated thoroughly. Instead, the put the FBI guy who covered up Ruby Ridge in-charge to cover it up. That speaks volumes that remaining PSU officials don't want to deal with what went under their noses because they allowed one guy to have the only say. That one guy was Paterno.

The NCAA needs to put requirements that such things be reported to the police immediately or serious consequences occur to the college that didn't enforce it. Penn. definitely needs to change its law like every other state that has the same vague laws.

Unlike Paterno's incompetence with moral vision, we need lawmakers to do the right thing and make the consequences for pedophilia extremely harsh: life in prison. No exceptions.

I constantly hear mindless politicians talk about our children's future every time they want a vote. How about actually doing something about it rather than continue the lie to gain empathy and votes.

It is clear sports can't seem to handle responsibilities to our youth. It's just a game. Maybe we should return to sports being sports and not overriding businesses running universities. Colleges are about learning not sports. Colleges are about all people not one person like in Paterno's case. Colleges are supposed to be idea machines not chant songs. Academics should run colleges not football programs. Alumni with lots of power needs to drive this home.

Making sports figures these gods in colleges needs to be over. That's exactly why this mess happened in the first place. Hey, we trust Joe Paterno cause he led us to a championship and we can't go wrong is what they thought. It went terribly wrong. It will go terribly wrong again elsewhere if things are not changed.

Sorry, I have utter contempt for Paterno. If firing him killed him, Paterno should have been the moral man he claimed to be and did something. It's his fault he didn't do something. The Daily Kos wrote, "F*ck Joe Paterno!" I agree. What people do for the least of society makes them great not what they do for themselves. I have no sympathy for him. Neither should anyone else.




Edited by phoenix321 (01/24/12 12:24 AM)
_________________________
Phoenix

A guy opens the front door and sees a snail on his doorstep. He picks up the snail and throws it across the street in a neighbor's yard. A year later, the guy opens the front door and the same snail is on his doorstep. The snail says, "What the f*ck was that about?"

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#383325 - 01/24/12 02:05 AM Re: The Lion Sleeps ... [Re: Run4fun]
Chase Eric Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/25/10
Posts: 1308
Originally Posted By: Run4fun
The real sad part of all of this is that it reflects a larger social problem. When confronted with CSA people 1) would rather look the other way 2) don't know what to do and just do nothing 3) are completely freaked out and can't confront it 4) protect the perpetrators 5) protect the system (family or institution) 6) hope it will all go away. Of course, I could say all of those things about myself and the way I have responded over the years to having been abused.

Precisely - I keep wondering if many of the adults who turn their heads to these things - like JoePa, clergy, etc. - may have been victims themselves back at a time when there was nowhere to turn but inward. Stand up like a man, forget it, and move forward.

It resonates because I did that for the longest time. I was so good at normalizing it and "stuffing it under the bed" that it took a therapist to tell me NO - offering yourself to a big 15 year old for anal intercourse when you are 12 so that he wouldn't molest your 7 year old sister is NOT normal childhood sex play.

Hypothetically speaking, if someone confided in me that they experienced something similar to what I experienced, I would have once proabably just said - "Oh, suck it up and forget it." Because that's how *I* dealt with it and it seemed to work for *me*.

How many adults are still walking around with their "normalized" and hidden secrets. How many untreated individuals can only turn a blind eye when they see it elsewhere because (1) that is how THEY dealt with it, or (2) because it is just THAT painful to even get near, so they do the minimal work and avert their eyes. Just like JoePa.

JoePa died with or without those secrets. We may never know. But while that is STILL no excuse, the doubt deflates some of my outrage. I can't imagine the hell of realizing the horrors of CSA - with myself or with those in my charge - really SEEING it for the first time - and being so at the end of my life I could do nothing about it.

I think it would kill me. I think I would just shrivel up and die...

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#383338 - 01/24/12 09:28 AM Re: The Lion Sleeps ... [Re: Chase Eric]
KMCINVA Offline
Greeter
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 1629
Chase Eric well said. It is a common problem--people want to deny CSA exists by looking the other way. Clearly society has not educated people on CSA, its effects on the victim and the ability of the perp to move freely through society until someone has the guts and fortitude to stand up. People ignore the victim--saying it will go away, did not occur, loved ones and society ignore any culpability of their treatment to the victim--and blame their drug use, self abuse, self destruction and sadly suicide on the victim. I remember a movie Prayers for Bobby, the mother was extremely religious, her son was gay and she ignored the child, blamed the child for his choice, ostracized him from the family. It was not until his suicide did she really begin to explore and understand who he was and what impact her actions had on her son. It was based on a true story. The mother became an advocate for gay rights. Sadly, parents, children, spouses and friends never realize how their treatment or lack of concern affects the victim until it is too late--they are gone. Education is needed for everyone. I am tired of Paterno being the center--I want to see more media on the effects, treatments and programs for the victim. They are suffering--and until the public understands how CSA can ruin lives we will not have change.

I do not believe Paterno had fear, just wanted to maintain the status quo--like most people will do.


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#383397 - 01/24/12 09:22 PM Re: The Lion Sleeps ... [Re: KMCINVA]
lapchinj Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/07/11
Posts: 1185
Loc: New York
Peace,Rainbows & Healing


Edited by lapchinj (03/17/13 11:34 PM)
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Stick around, It will get better....

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#384732 - 02/07/12 02:39 PM Re: The Lion Sleeps ... [Re: KMCINVA]
KMCINVA Offline
Greeter
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 1629
I had to re read this post I previously made. I was told my reference to Prayers for Bobby was about my mother and I was Bobby. I know I was not in this situation until CSA because I did not ever feel neglected or abandoned by family. So after re reading I know this was just another comment without basis. Clearly the comment was about how actions of others can negatively impact someone's life to the point of suicide.


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#384734 - 02/07/12 02:42 PM Re: The Lion Sleeps ... [Re: KMCINVA]
phoenix321 Offline


Registered: 09/26/11
Posts: 912
Loc: USA, FL
RIH Joe Paterno.

_________________________
Phoenix

A guy opens the front door and sees a snail on his doorstep. He picks up the snail and throws it across the street in a neighbor's yard. A year later, the guy opens the front door and the same snail is on his doorstep. The snail says, "What the f*ck was that about?"

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