Newest Members
MG5555, ShinTensei, jaklumen, Bennett, 0128
12506 Registered Users
Today's Birthdays
Moriji (44), Nicos (48), weharry1959 (55)
Who's Online
3 registered (tbkkfile, MG5555, 1 invisible), 16 Guests and 4 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
12506 Members
74 Forums
64203 Topics
448038 Posts

Max Online: 418 @ 07/02/12 07:29 AM
Twitter
Page 3 of 14 < 1 2 3 4 5 ... 13 14 >
Topic Options
#384011 - 02/01/12 01:04 AM Re: SSA or Gay... [Re: westchesterguy]
Chase Eric Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/25/10
Posts: 1493
I just wanted to respond to this...

Originally Posted By: westchesterguy

eric, i don't see the molestation or stimulation related to same or opposite sex attraction at all. i understand being pleased by stimulation... what if that same pleasure simply came from an inanimate object. we'd call that i.o. attraction? i think that act, which was about unhealthy and mind-controlling games, could be separated from "relationship."

what i find amusing here too, and perhaps this really comes from just being tired and old on my approach to 50, but why is this being discussed? i'm not asking in an unkind way - for i think the answer to that question isn't so much about any of us individually, but is the result of "societal norms."

why isn't the goal about "finding a healthy relationship" that brings happiness and pleasure and is truly a mutual understanding of needs, desires, goals and support?

this, in my view, is possible with a guy or a girl, i.e. just another living, breathing human being. this isn't about gay or straight in my view. our mental health and happiness should be all that matters for the very short time we are alive -- and anything outside of that scope, i think, holds us back from celebrating those few short years called life.

Hi, Jeff. While I disagree with some of what you have to say, I do so in a friendly vein and only in the spirit of open and honest discussion smile ...

I see the molestation as having a LOT to do with "same or opposite sex attraction." Interpersonal sexual relations, whether they be love relationships, molestations or even forceable rape, are FAR too complex to compare with having sex with an inanimate object. And that ties directly in to your other statement that I could separate the "act" from the "relationship."

***tRiGGeRs***

It was ALL about the relationship. He was my "big brother" next door who one day decided to take it much further and deeper than I could ever hope to understand. I can't explain this without being detailed because it is within the details that my point is made - so please forgive me....

Inanimate object? When he entered me, it was not a dispassionate object that I felt, it was not even a disembodied organ - it was my "big brother" next door and the intimacy (not intimacy in the positive sense but rather in the absolute sense of the word) was overwhelming. I've never been able to view sex casually probably because of that - the fact that he just invited himself into me, shooting darts into my soul - those enormously intimate trespasses causing equally intimate and uncontrolled responses cannot possibly in my mind even come CLOSE to comparison with an inanimate object. Sorry and I really don't mean to be crude but instead of his organ in my behind, it might as well have been a puppeteer's hand in a puppet, completely owning and directing every reaction that puppet makes. That's what I was to him - a puppet that he would pick up off the toy chest every chance he had, put his hand inside and make me dance just for him. I would definitely agree, however, that perhaps a broomstick - as uncomfortable as it may have been - would have been better for my pysche in the long run...

I suppose sexual identity is like a mighty oak in an adult man, but it is a fragile seedling in a little boy. When I was molested at 12, my entire sexual identity was crippled. I was coerced to play a role I did not understand, feeling sexual responses that no one explained to me, keeping secrets I would die before revealling, and losing my carefree sense of just being a good boy. How many people outside these virtual walls understand what it means to be truly ashamed of oneself - AT TWELVE? I basically never became the tree I was meant to become. The damage wasn't so apparent then, but I stand in the forest of my peers now, and I still feel like a seedling.

I suppose the SSA/sexual orientation issue comes from not making sense of those natural sexual responses you will certainly have - or at least that I had. The confusion and shame do not negate the learned stimulations, and - in my case at least - I was lost in a dark cave of overwhelming carnal sensations and seductive adventure and heart-breaking guilt that I was in no way equipped to say no to, and certainly not equipped mentally to navigate alone.

I know you weren't asking in an unkind way - really. And my answer is in the same genuine spirit of friendly dialogue... "why is this being discussed?" I would imagine that the answer would be the same for this question: Why are we all here?

_________________________
Eirik




Click my pic to see why I'm here

Top
#384013 - 02/01/12 01:38 AM Re: SSA or Gay... [Re: Chase Eric]
just me Offline


Registered: 05/27/09
Posts: 196
Eric.....wow!
((((((Eric))))))

_________________________
My Story

Top
#384014 - 02/01/12 02:03 AM Re: SSA or Gay... [Re: just me]
lapchinj Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/07/11
Posts: 1250
Loc: New York
Peace,Rainbows & Healing


Edited by lapchinj (03/16/13 11:07 PM)
_________________________
Stick around, It will get better....

Top
#384027 - 02/01/12 07:25 AM Re: SSA or Gay... [Re: Chase Eric]
westchesterguy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/13/09
Posts: 421
Loc: Westchester County NY
Originally Posted By: Chase Eric
...I suppose sexual identity is like a mighty oak in an adult man, but it is a fragile seedling in a little boy. When I was molested at 12, my entire sexual identity was crippled. I was coerced to play a role I did not understand, feeling sexual responses that no one explained to me, keeping secrets I would die before revealling, and losing my carefree sense of just being a good boy. ... Why are we all here?


ok, eric. now, to be clear: are there not then three things that must be defined besides the title of this topic?

1) molestation, described in your post above, which in itself comes with a spectrum of sexual experiences that are all in the past;

2) same-sex attraction, which is in the present and perhaps future, being "we think brad pitt is hot" but that is all there is to it, and;

3) gay, which is also present and perhaps past or future: we think brad pitt is hot AND we wouldn't be able to control ourselves if he jumped into bed with us.

if all true, i think it helps to understand what it is we are defining if we are to achieve a goal - and/or find resolve. if there are more - lets add them.

so far, i'm coming at it this way: no.1 (yup, got that,) no.2 (yup, normal), no.3 (yup, normal.)

so, why are we here?

what do you want and or need from this discussion?

now, as a lifetime gardener i loved your oak analogy smile

i think that miniature oaks, which are grown in the worst soil and in between rocks on a mountain top are just as mighty and beautiful --perhaps even more so-- than their peers grown in the lush, fertilized easy valley below.

yes, as a matter of size the valley oak is perfectly shaped and 60' tall and everyone knows its there. whereas the one surviving in rock thousands of feet above the valley is gnarled, wind-swept, likely has dead wood from lightening strikes... but it endures.

it is not the valley oak that photographers find -- they climb that mountain because they appreciate the tiny oak's survival. it is that dwarfed oak that hikers mark so they do not get lost. it is the solitary tree on that mountain top that young lovers meet under for a picnic to plan their life. that oak, that abused, forlorn, knobby, tangled tree serves a far greater purpose that cannot be replicated by all the mighty oaks in the valley below.

that is what i read from your posts, eric. strength. purpose. endurance.

_________________________
Jeff

Top
#384031 - 02/01/12 08:47 AM Re: SSA or Gay... [Re: whome]
lapchinj Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/07/11
Posts: 1250
Loc: New York
Peace,Rainbows & Healing


Edited by lapchinj (03/16/13 11:07 PM)
_________________________
Stick around, It will get better....

Top
#384037 - 02/01/12 11:04 AM Re: SSA or Gay... [Re: lapchinj]
westchesterguy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/13/09
Posts: 421
Loc: Westchester County NY
Originally Posted By: lapchinj
....I don't understand why the survey was done aside from showing how many men do not use any protection.


i don't understand why no one asked "why" these guys have sex with other men. :-) especially when the guys are married.

all age groups?

were those who had sex with men, but considered themselves, hetero, sexually abused as boys?

but these bits and pieces of information trickle in and really offer no new information, in my humble view.

and speaking as a guy - who is interested in forming a partnership with another guy - it becomes clearer with each article and many of these threads on this board, why so few men are actually "available." especially in ny metro.

if all i wanted was sex - even minus risk of being caught and thus fired from my job for acting a natural way - that option sounds readily available.

and it is the easy way out.

_________________________
Jeff

Top
#384041 - 02/01/12 11:51 AM Re: SSA or Gay... [Re: Chase Eric]
EdfromNYC Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/18/10
Posts: 233
Loc: New York City
Quote:
"why is this being discussed?" I would imagine that the answer would be the same for this question: Why are we all here?


This is the crux of the issue and I'm glad you pinpointed it in such a friendly, kind and thoughtful manner.

There are posts in this thread that make statements like attraction is "absolutely not" an issue and I vehemently disagree.

Is a diabetic with an attraction to sweets vulnerable to self-harm? Left without the proper resources and assistance and alternative ways to satisfy himself, yes, his attraction is potentially threatening to his well-being. Is a CSA survivor with sexual attractions that he is not comfortable with vulnerable to continued self-harm? Yes without assistance and alternative ways to figure out that he might be in fact trying to improperly meet unmet needs and may in fact be perpetuating his own abuse, in effect, re-abusing himself repeatedly. SSA can just be one form of this area of sexual attraction that can cause questions and discomfort.

Looking at one's attraction, picking it apart, seeing what fits and what doesn't is part of the process. If one sees it as SSA and sees it as an abuse holdover and is uncomfortable with that, he has the freedom to dissect it and come to his own internal resolution whether that be gay, straight, no label, etc. but each man has the freedom to declare what his perspective is and to work it out.

_________________________
And more, much more, the heart may feel,
Than the pen may write or the lip reveal.
Winthrop Mackworth Praed

Top
#384044 - 02/01/12 12:00 PM Re: SSA or Gay... [Re: westchesterguy]
whome Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/07/11
Posts: 1736
Loc: Johannesburg South Africa
I think the survey was done as a research study into the use of condoms but in my mind, even with that as a basis, it does open a big can of worms, well sort of.

Being on the inside, so to speak, we see the underlying causes and effects.

The big thing here is that groups that support survivors do not have the sort of money required to do surveys on such a grand scale.

Pity really, I think that it would make for interesting reading.

Martin

_________________________
Matrix Men South Africa
Survivors Supporting Each other
Matrix Men Blog

Top
#384047 - 02/01/12 12:30 PM Re: SSA or Gay... [Re: EdfromNYC]
westchesterguy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/13/09
Posts: 421
Loc: Westchester County NY
Originally Posted By: EdfromNYC
...Is a CSA survivor with sexual attractions that he is not comfortable with vulnerable to continued self-harm? Yes without assistance and alternative ways to figure out that he might be in fact trying to improperly meet unmet needs and may in fact be perpetuating his own abuse, in effect, re-abusing himself repeatedly. SSA can just be one form of this area of sexual attraction that can cause questions and discomfort.


ed, what do you mean?
what is a sexual attraction? is that something different than seeing a guy and thinking - "sexy man" before you walk off to an appointment?

what is self-harm? how is seeing a sexy guy harmful to one personally?

what are unmet needs? if this is about same-sex only, then what needs do men require of each other?

and what are levels of discomfort? is that really just about a fear that after all is said and done, one is just preferring to be with a guy in a lifelong relationship instead of the one he has with a woman today?



_________________________
Jeff

Top
#384053 - 02/01/12 02:34 PM Re: SSA or Gay... [Re: westchesterguy]
EdfromNYC Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/18/10
Posts: 233
Loc: New York City
WCG, you keep asking what Chase Eric wants from this dialogue. The question really is: what are you looking for? I understand what he might be looking for but I don't know what you are seeking here.

I feel comfortable with what I have written and my post speaks for itself. It seems to me that your questions are for you to answer for yourself to your own satisfaction.

_________________________
And more, much more, the heart may feel,
Than the pen may write or the lip reveal.
Winthrop Mackworth Praed

Top
Page 3 of 14 < 1 2 3 4 5 ... 13 14 >


Moderator:  ModTeam, TJ jeff 

I agree that my access and use of the MaleSurvivor discussion forums and chat room is subject to the terms of this Agreement. AND the sole discretion of MaleSurvivor.
I agree that my use of MaleSurvivor resources are AT-WILL, and that my posting privileges may be terminated at any time, and for any reason by MaleSurvivor.