WCG - could I ask how old you were when your abuse occurred?

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CE, I apologize for coming off as addressing you, I was just kinda ranting lol. I think you cleared your point up beautifully in your last post.

WC, I have been in therapy (loosely) for about 13 years, off and on. I'm 28 now. I started in therapy because of clinical OCD/depression. I didn't start talking about sexuality till maybe a couple months into the sessions. I was extremely confused at this time as to my sexuality. I had discovered porn at 11. I was shown porn when I was about 5 years old, but at 11 it was gay porn I found. Back then, lots of my talk was about religion/faith/God issues. Fast forward to like, 18-20 ish years old, I didnt' see my T much at all, probably once every other month maybe.

Then around 20-23, talk was about friendships, girls, and brief mentions of possible abuse in my past. I didn't even know if I was abused or not. So, still, mostly surface stuff. At this point, I was starting to feel some sexual feelings for girls and was confused some more about sexuality. These were the first feelings I had for girls since I was in elementary school and chased them around the playground.

Then, 24-26. I hit a bad low...started experiencing heavy PTSD-like symptoms (nightmares, panic attacks, anxiety) gay porn use became very addictive, yet sporadic (like once every few months or so). I was very depressed. It was only at this point I began to open up more about stuff from my childhood that was clearly abuse.

27-now. Dated two girls. Neither lasted longer than a month. Never had a girlfriend before. Felt intense, strong sexual attraction to both girls. The first girl was almost purely physical attraction, the second was both physical and emotional. Both girls dumped me without notice. Hit a low. Started looking at gay porn, tried to "accept it," and found that it was an impossibility, so I stopped again.

So now, in therapy, I'm still finding new, untalked about areas of my past and childhood that I still hadn't dealt with. Why am I not married and with a family and having sex all the time at 28? I don't know yet. Why am I not having lots and lots of sex as a single male 28 year old? Well, not sure exactly. Still have LOTS of work to go. I guess we don't all heal quickly, and I guess I have to be okay with that somehow. Still trying to figure it all out.

well, hard to comment on that observation lapchin. is it any easier or harder for any of us? :-) i think it is just different.

it is occurring to me, however, more and more in reading posts here to question the quality of therapy out there right now.

i've never had a bad therapist. i don't say my final two therapists (one for individual and one for group) were running as candidates for the nobel prize...but they were excellent. they knew their craft and they were passionate about their jobs. the guy (group) was a male survivor the woman (my primary) was a specialist in sexual identity crisis. so, i do assume --whether right or wrong-- guys here are 1.) "demanding" the same level of service from their therapists that i did and 2) getting the best service from their therapists on all issues related to sexual abuse, sexual identity, sexual happiness, and surviving life as adults.

maybe i was lucky in that respect. but something tells me not one of you here would rather be in my shoes... even recovered. keep going. demand more. be the biggest son of a bitch the psychological profession has ever seen! you are worth it.

in a way - i think this branch of discussion is still on topic. especially since reading what edinnyc wrote few pages back. that therapist should be barred from practicing in my view.

nonetheless, i think all one needs is "two sessions max" to know if the therapist will work out. i, for one, do not buy into "first impressions." goes for friends as well. maybe i should be volunteering to screen everyone's therapist. :-)

one doesn't have to "like" the therapist, right? this is a business decision. are you going to buy stock that you know will be worth half its value in 10 years? no, then why invest in the talents of someone who can't be training you to be self sufficient in 3 or 5 years?

twice a week $200 a session = $20,800 a year. that return had better be priceless.

you buy a therapist's talent and expertise - you don't buy their friendship or sympathy or anything else. smiles and tears don't count. willingness to learn does though - and this organization has leaders who are willing to train therapists anywhere in order to help male survivors. so, in my view, there are no excuses for a therapist in 2012 to not know how to train you in the recovery process.

that being said: the harder part is really up to us, right?

TRUSTING the recovery process is perhaps the biggest most challenging task in one's life. more than marriage. more than believing in god, more than raising children and balancing a career... in my view.


how much does one want to change? how much work is one really willing to put into that effort? dudes - i know when i "meet someone" whether he is serious about his desire to fight and recover. it is that obvious! if i can tell, i'm sure therapists can! i'm sure one's boss can if he is smart. when one enters and commits to recover -- is he fully understanding that "if i trust the process" my life will be forever changed?

major issues - examples:
no, the process won't make life painless
no, the process will not fix a laundry list of issues
no, the process won't change anything from the past
no, the process won't make one straight or gay
yes, one may come to believe there is no god
yes, one may find he is gay - or straight
yes, one may find out he shouldn't be married anymore
yes, one may find he is really and truly alone for the first time in his life...other than the therapist who sees the change.

you get the point. a professional therapist (who knows what he is doing) will enable the recovery process inside of you to open doors, remove toxins (i.e. family and bad friends/influencers), and get off that roundabout.

the process empowers us to make that right-hand turn. it changes what we know "today" if one doesn't fear those changes, in my view. and "the process" of recovery itself becomes much easier.

the process can result in the reward of joy and happiness when we use it to find internal peace, set priorities and base our actions upon healthy decisions. that is why i have said all along in this thread - it doesn't bloody matter if you are attracted to another guy. what matters is that the attraction is, first, healthy, and secondly, that it could flourish into something special and mutually fulfilling.

I think it comes back to the question, "Did my abuse make me gay?" In many people's minds this is still a relevant question because few people would 'choose' to be gay.

In my own case, I'm not sure. I was married to a woman for 20 years and tried to be straight, but gay won out in the end. I find myself more attracted to the PERSONALITIES of men than of women. If anyone thinks I am gay because I'm reliving my abuse, or trying to perpetuate my abuse on others, they couldn't be more wrong. If anything, my abuse by men should have turned me away from men.

Sexually I am attracted to men more than women as well, but I think that's more because of my familiarity with men's bodies and what pleasures them. Sadly, I've never met a woman who was as uninhibited about sex as many of the men I've known. With a guy, I know exactly what to do, but with women I'm not so sure.

That being said, I would love a relationship with another person, male or female. A healthy, productive, fun and sexy relationship that's good for us both. I've been in relationships with men and women in the past, and haven't found the right one yet. Oddly, my therapist once jokingly suggested that I might be one of the rarest of psycho-sexual types; a straight man trapped on a gay man's body! I have no idea if I choose to be gay or if I was born that way or if I was turned gay by my abusers. Turns out it doesn't really matter; I've got bigger problems to deal with than that...

refreshing to read that sentence.

as for the question "did my abuse make me gay?" aren't therapists explaining to their patients this was a myth and has been disproved?