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#384905 - 02/08/12 12:25 PM Re: SSA or Gay... [Re: Castle]
Castle Offline


Registered: 10/03/09
Posts: 733
Loc: NJ
I alos agree that we must have some face 2 face time with other survivors...its crutial to recovery...i also dont believe we just recover and were done...doesnt work that way.

personally I made some really great bonds at MS, that has moved into real friendships with people I see and talk with...we are scattered but in contact and meet as often as we can. It can and does happen but takes work, a bunch of really hard work to be a part of somebodys life and be support and be supported....It takes a certain amount of vulnerability in other men that you cna talk to them about the real things and get support understanding and a convesation. Its truely amazing and a game changer.

just my opinion, and experience.

_________________________

My posts can self destruct at any time..read them while you can.

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#384907 - 02/08/12 12:30 PM Re: SSA or Gay... [Re: westchesterguy]
JustScott Offline
Greeter Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 2590
Quote:
justscott - and others - since we only give our opinions here, i would hope you and a fellow survivor in your town who "gets this" can meet in person, become each others support, best friends even, or just a mentor -- and he can help you learn how to "fit in with other men." or you learn together simply with mutual encouragement while exploring these important nuances of recovery together.


There there is 2 cents I wish I had. I agree 100%, yet where I am, I'm utterly alone in this journey, aside from this forum and a few people I communicate with long distance via email, text and PM. It's lonely, and it sucks, especially for someone who struggles to connect with people right there in front of me... Connecting online is something that is utterly alien. I just don't ever feel it.


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#384913 - 02/08/12 01:22 PM Re: SSA or Gay... [Re: Castle]
1lifenow Offline


Registered: 03/07/11
Posts: 412
Loc: west coast
Originally Posted By: Castle
Its truely amazing and a game changer.

just my opinion, and experience.


I agree with you castle and just scott re: the emotional attachment. I went back and modified my post. I took the definition from a psych book. I implied ROMANTIC emotional attachment when i wrote it but , of course your are right, emotional on its own is too vague a term.

Also I agree , if it was not for the bond i now have with other CSA survivors , here , at the WoR and my weekly MS group in my city, that i like you would not have been able to experience a real "game changer".

_________________________
The need for love lies at the very foundation of human existence. Dalai Lama

WoR Barrie 2011

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#384941 - 02/08/12 04:11 PM Re: SSA or Gay... [Re: 1lifenow]
westchesterguy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/13/09
Posts: 421
Loc: Westchester County NY
this is an interesting outcome.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/cutline/cnn-...-195422269.html

i also think the response kind of shows where people are at out there in the scary world.

curious to me, as a so-called gay guy, how the gay community concluded on my behalf that this man should be fired.

i laughed at the twits this guy typed and as usual - am not pleased glaad thinks they represent me or my definition of what is ''gay bashing.''

if i had been in the room with roland as he commented on that gay h&m ad for underwear, i'd have said to him "jealous! you couldn't look that hot no matter what you tried."

we'd have moved on and continued watching the game....

maybe i am the nutty one for not being offended. who knows? or just maybe i've experienced real gay bashing --too many times-- and found that when you need help - no one will come.

_________________________
Jeff

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#385044 - 02/09/12 11:04 AM Re: SSA or Gay... [Re: westchesterguy]
Bradley P Offline


Registered: 11/03/10
Posts: 44
Loc: AR
ChaseEric, I think that what you refer to (accepting your "SSA" and embracing it) is really bisexuality. Let me explain.

SSA is not bisexuality; if you can have relationships beyond the abusive/sexual type with the same gender, those are genuine romantic/sexual attractions. I have tried to "accept" my SSA and act out...I've opened chat windows with guys, I've been in situations where I was hit on by guys I felt some attraction for...I just can't do it. I can't...I don't want to, I feel, most of the time, absolutely nothing and if anything, I feel like what I described in my post: like a little boy getting beat up. Luckily, I've felt that with mild caresses; I haven't had to go through with a sex act or anything physical to discover that.

Still, internally, it's a hell that I wouldn't wish on anybody.

_________________________
"Life is for living, we all know...but I don't want to live it alone"-Chris Martin (Coldplay)

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#385152 - 02/10/12 09:45 AM Re: SSA or Gay... [Re: westchesterguy]
tom1234 Offline


Registered: 02/01/12
Posts: 4
Hi I was abuse from the age of 6 to 13 and Im in mid forty AND Im haveing a hard time tring to deal with my sexuality orientation is this nomal with this I feel sad hopeless will I ever get throw this . I need some in put. thank you Tom1970


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#385155 - 02/10/12 10:41 AM Re: SSA or Gay... [Re: tom1234]
Chase Eric Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/25/10
Posts: 1477
Originally Posted By: Tom
Hi I was abuse from the age of 6 to 13 and Im in mid forty AND Im haveing a hard time tring to deal with my sexuality orientation is this nomal with this I feel sad hopeless will I ever get throw this . I need some in put. thank you

Well, Tom - you've come to the right place, and probably even to the right thread. The whole question of SSA and the factors that influence or drive sexual orientation are almost hopelessly confusing at the least. The paradox is this - the sexual identity confusion serves more to highlight the magnitude of the effects of CSA than it does to characterize who we really are...

Ultimately, we may never figure this one out. What I have read from those who are adamant that they suffer SSA but "know" they are not "gay" reminds me that I was once there as well. Maybe they'll figure it out. I couldn't - and while I was completely convinced I was straight and hated the SSA drive within me, nothing I did even remotely "tipped the scales" in favor of developing normal opposite-sex urges free of SSA.

After years of relentless effort, I realize now that I might as well have been throwing water at the sun to cool it down. It's always there - it never goes away. Call it whatever you want - imprinting, SSA, gay - whatever label makes you feel better about it, I guess. No matter how I framed it, characterized it, described it, derided it, displayed it, acted on it, acted against it, denied it - in the end, there it was. Not even a dent.

I eventually tried a different approach and it seems to have worked better for me. I redefined who the enemy was. Perhaps it wasn't SSA, but rather my abuser. Perhaps it was not my sexuality, but rather my perpetual lack of inner peace.

The greatest irony? I was perpetuating for years the very stigma I feared. At 12 or 13, I'm thinking, "What would people think if they found out I am doing that with him?" And my whole life ever after has been for those ghosts I feared - those undefined judges on the sidelines of my life. And the biggest waste of all? I lived my life for them - demanding of myself a conformity to "normal" instead of accepting and embracing who I had to become.

SSA? Gay? They all have one common denominator. No - it's not about sex. The common core that unites us all is that we became who we are because we adapted, we survived. SSA means I survived. Gay means I survived. I'm tattered, bruised, banged up from the fall. But I picked myself up, brushed off the dirt. I'm limping. But I'm moving on.

Whoever you are, Tom, whatever your feelings about yourself, however strong your desire to change - that's all fine. Go for it. Become the person you truly want to be. But don't waste your time becoming the person you think OTHERS want you to be. Because that's precisely what our abusers made us do. Don't perpetuate it, or you become an eternal memorial to his dirty work. Own your OWN life, take it back from the ghosts of disapproval (who really don't exist anyways), celebrate your differences instead of recoiling from them. Don't discard yourself, dismiss yourself, judge yourself by anyone else's standard except your own.

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Eirik




Click my pic to see why I'm here

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#385159 - 02/10/12 11:01 AM Re: SSA or Gay... [Re: Chase Eric]
Bradley P Offline


Registered: 11/03/10
Posts: 44
Loc: AR
Okay not to be contentious, but it's still like the common thing that is preached is to "accept who you are" like those who don't identify gay but have SSA are in denial.

What if you have really, genuinely tried to act on it, but we're unable? What if it's ALL internal? What if you aren't ever really attracted to real live same gender people on the street? What if it's all episodic splurges into the realm of porn triggered by horrible feelings/abuse memories, etc...? What if you are legitimately attracted to the opposite sex...like FOR REAL?? And then, what if (like me) your abuse history includes BOTH sexes, so it's likely that I may end up a virgin for life??

I'm sorry...but look, it's not as simple as "accept it" for some people. Accept what exactly??? Pick one from the list I just created above.

I would argue that if you never experience opposite sex attraction, if you only experienced "SSA," and you simply weren't acting on it because of constraints like society, rejection, even religion, then yeah, you might be gay. But then some people don't have romantic/ lovey-dovey attractions for the same sex...just strong sexual urges. Some people have love-dovey feelings for women, but lack sexual urges for them, but have intense sexual urges for men. I'd call that bi-sexual maybe?? Who the f**k knows man. But the point is, it's not denial for folks if they are honestly trying to figure this crap out in honesty and truth. Frick man, we're all here because of SEXUAL ABUSE...that's abuse of sex...so for the love of God, sex and everything tied around it is GOING to be confusing as f**k for most of us here.

It's not denial, it's a journey. And wherever that journey leads is hopefully better than the in-between many of us feel right now.

_________________________
"Life is for living, we all know...but I don't want to live it alone"-Chris Martin (Coldplay)

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#385168 - 02/10/12 12:18 PM Re: SSA or Gay... [Re: Bradley P]
Chase Eric Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/25/10
Posts: 1477
Originally Posted By: Bradley
it's still like the common thing that is preached is to "accept who you are" like those who don't identify gay but have SSA are in denial.

Thank you, Bradley. Actually, I never actually said that. And please note I was VERY careful to couch my words in terms of MY experience (I used "I" throughout). I specifically did not extrapolate my personal journey as having meaning applicable to anyone else but me. If it came across as preachy, I do apologize. I cannot apologize for sharing, however, since that is what we are all here to do. Still, I took out my last comment - just so it would not be misinterpreted.

Originally Posted By: Bradely
I'm sorry...but look, it's not as simple as "accept it" for some people. Accept what exactly???

I should have been more clear about this, and thank you for challenging me to make it so. Again, I never said "accept it" but will accept your paraphrased summation as your interpretation - and so it deserves address. If you interpret anything I have said as "I have to accept that my SSA probably means that I am Gay", that is entirely off base. If anything I said came across that way, that was not my intention. My perspective should be read more like, "Whatever these feelings are - SSA, Gay - whatever - they are real, they are confusing, and perhaps they are even undesired, and I'll try to sort them out. But I will not fight myself or judge myself in the process." Seemingly subtle difference from "accepting" the feelings? It's not. I suppose you could say I'm talking about accepting oneself on a fundamental level - as a platform from which to do the work of figuring everything else out.

I suppose it's like being riddled with cancer? You can love the patient and still hate the disease. SSA - from what I understand - seems like a cancer of one's sexual identity. I would imagine that makes it particularly unresectable since the the "disease" and the "self" are so fundamentally interwoven. For ME - well, that lead to a lot of self-loathing that spilled over into every area of my life. So when I say (in essence) "accept yourself", I fully mean to respect that nuance.

Originally Posted By: Bradley
I would argue that if you never experience opposite sex attraction, if you only experienced "SSA," and you simply weren't acting on it because of constraints like society, rejection, even religion, then yeah, you might be gay. But then some people don't have romantic/ lovey-dovey attractions for the same sex...just strong sexual urges. Some people have love-dovey feelings for women, but lack sexual urges for them, but have intense sexual urges for men. I'd call that bi-sexual maybe?? Who the f**k knows man. But the point is, it's not denial for folks if they are honestly trying to figure this crap out in honesty and truth. Frick man, we're all here because of SEXUAL ABUSE...that's abuse of sex...so for the love of God, sex and everything tied around it is GOING to be confusing as f**k for most of us here.

It's not denial, it's a journey. And wherever that journey leads is hopefully better than the in-between many of us feel right now.

Glad to see that - even though our way of expressing these points are quite different - we are saying essentially the same thing. smile

_________________________
Eirik




Click my pic to see why I'm here

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#385171 - 02/10/12 12:37 PM Re: SSA or Gay... [Re: Bradley P]
westchesterguy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/13/09
Posts: 421
Loc: Westchester County NY
Originally Posted By: Bradley P
...And then, what if (like me) your abuse history includes BOTH sexes, so it's likely that I may end up a virgin for life??


i have asked this before, not of you bradley but of others, why would someone consider that whatever happened before - is somehow dictating what happens forevermore?

i'm an optimist on this front. i think sexual abuse places us on a roundabout (think pl. charles de gaulle in paris) driving round and round and round -- yet we have numerous turn-offs for which to take out of that circle, but we can't see them --- for our choice is keep the arc de triomphe in view, on the immediate left.

i believe that with proper training through healthy therapy, everyone overcomes and moves forward, leaves that roundabout with a right-hand turn to drive freely and without restraint through the winding streets ahead - in order to take on the oh-so-numerous problems life has waiting. yeah, i know, a lot of hidden meanings there - in my humble view someone still in therapy (roundabout) with the same therapist 10 years on etc... should really be rethinking what is going on. smile change course, fire the therapist or put the recovery process on hold if he isn't ready.

but in this, i really see the greatest outcome of "free male sexuality" i.e. a man who is "comfortable with himself," won't allow society's labels to get in the way of experiencing life. and, in my view, that is not about porn or an ability to recognize a hot guy or girl on the street. on the contrary...i think free male sexuality is not even about physical attraction. it can perhaps be total abstinence, it could be the most deeply romantic 15-yr fulfilling relationship with a guy. or a girl. and that ends only to find an equally fulfilling relationship with a girl. or a guy.

growing close to someone (no matter which gender), which if intimacy develops into something more passionate that both parties respect, nurture and want to share -- to me that is the pinnacle of life. i don't see it happens very often. it has happened for me only twice. i think 99% of all guys we meet in life won't fit that opportunity... maybe 90% of all girls won't fit either. don't know, just saying.

_________________________
Jeff

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