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#383832 - 01/30/12 05:40 AM Facing past "trigger warning"
peroperic2009 Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/09/11
Posts: 3603
Loc: South-East Europe
Hi everyone,
I'm struggling for a while now and I'm exhausted so I just need some space here to vent my thoughts.
Aaaahhh, this is really hard for me so I need some support frown
After I've discovered this place I've finally saw some rays of hope and decided to do something about my life.
Spending time here is great and I've made some positive steps only by reading posts. But somehow I know this will not be enough and let say I'm now collecting courage for next step.

For those who didn't read I was unappropriated touched by other boys when I was 5-6 years old boy, my twin brother has had same experience. Actually we had it together later. And somehow I was suddenly drown into life of sexuality. I haven't felt all those actions like some sort of 'abuse' but more like play and fun. I was child and it seems to me that I'm discovering world of adults. But that experience has twisted me and I was aware since start.
Anyway some of my memories are gone and I can't recall too much. But as I have twin brother lately I'm obsessed with thoughts to ask him about our childhood. This Christmas was good opportunity for that. I told my bro by phone that I have some issues and that I've discovered site with full of resources which helps me a lot and that I need to talk to him. When I saw him I didn't have courage to go further in matter and he didn't ask.
Actually we had family reunion for Christmas and we went to Germany where my bro is living. We are living (my father, me, brother and sister) in three different countries. I'm alone in my country but with opportunity to see father more often than bro and sis. This was also opportunity to meet my brother's gay partner and his family. We all were a little bit exited because of all this. I'm coming from let say conservative country/culture where such things are almost like taboo but my family seems to be completely different and liberal in positive sense. We've spent great time there and somehow I wasn't ready to spoil everything.
I have to admit that I'm very connected to brother and don't know is he ready to dig in dark past.
As I can remember he used to teach me a lot of 'forbidden' things, he was like lieder and I was great follower in world of sexual discoveries. I cant recall when (but obviously very early) our knowledge has been leveled up. Later we've fortunately moved from other bad boys who were brought all that in our lives but we continued to do some things together until college times. As I've described in my story in time when my bro discovered that he is gay (that was relatively recently - couple years ago). He has felt responsible for my well being and my sexual orientation. He was mainly worry that I might be also gay because of him. I must say that I'm confused about myself and that I have same sex attraction but I don't consider my self as gay. I cant imagine that I'm touched by other man in romantic way and such physical contact is problem for me. But I used to watch a lot of gay porn and I'm always in really bad mood afterward. I've read a lot about this theme and I see my behavior mostly like recurrence of traumatic experience. This porn topic could be one day other post cause I've found a lot about sex abuse just by watching adult movies and I wonder have anyone else had such experience...

So basically I'm stuck with myself to go further I need to know as much details as possible. Who was first abuser to us, how many of kids were involved (we were group of at least 4-6 boys), when actually everything started, who was mainly responsible etc. Additionally bro sees one older boy particularly as abuser although I don't have such memories with him, I need to ask him about all that stuff in detailed way.I have also many questions to bro about our mutual sex activities. We didn't talk much about it.
I wonder if all that recalling would bring unwonted memories to my brother and make his life miserable. He had a lot of issues with himself when he 'came out' and It seems to me that he is finally very happy. I know that he is even more fragile than I'm, so I worry a lot about it. I'm also concerned would all that bring some negative change into my bro's sex life and his relationship.
So many questions....
Please if any of you have some advice how to proceed let me know. Send me pm or just write it here. I know that I'll go further certainly but in first place I would like to make as least harm as possible...

Pero


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#383858 - 01/30/12 02:46 PM Re: Facing past "trigger warning" [Re: peroperic2009]
Chase Eric Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/25/10
Posts: 1308
Well, I won't PM just because I think this is a topic that others may want to read and learn from as well. I've been in a similar situation with my sister and a lot of the SSA dynamics resonate as well.

This whole site stands as a strong testiment to the enormous and even cathartic power of sharing. So many of us here who have posted in such painfully intimate detail have at one point rather died to protect those secrets. Climbing this wall for some of us is the emotional equivalent of the most courageous acts in other arenas. These secrets were once kept purportedly to protect ourselves, but as wiser and older people we now know that the secrets have only served to protect our abusers and perpetuate their actions with us and others.

So if you need to be convinced of the validity or reason you feel compelled to share more with your brother, I would argue that sharing is as vital to us as survivors as salmon trying to spawn upstream. You feel compelled to go there, and I would argue that you must try...

How to do it? I can only share how I broached the subject with my own sibling. It was a quiet walk in the park, I looked at her, and just quietly said the name of our abuser. I let her take it from there. It can be that simple...

Good luck, Pero.

_________________________



Click my pic to see why I'm here

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#383875 - 01/30/12 06:13 PM Re: Facing past "trigger warning" [Re: Chase Eric]
traveler Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/07/06
Posts: 3377
Loc: somewhere in Africa
Two words:

Tough love -

He may not want to hear it & face up to it any more than you did - but probly needs to just as much.

Be kind, gentle & loving - but do what you need to do for both of you - no matter how scary and painful it is.

Only MY opinion!

Do what your HEART tells you...

Lee

_________________________
As my life goes on I believe somehow something's changed
Something deep inside...
I've been searchin so long to find an answer
Now I know my life has meaning
Now I see myself as I am, feeling very free...
When my tears have come to an end I will understand
What I left behind: a part of me. Chicago


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#383880 - 01/30/12 06:42 PM Re: Facing past "trigger warning" [Re: Chase Eric]
peroperic2009 Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/09/11
Posts: 3603
Loc: South-East Europe
Thanks Eric and Lee,
I agree in everything you both said. Indeed I've felt like I was climbed on high wall and because of that I'm a little bit exhausted.
I will share all stuff with brother but I'm not sure about right moment. Thing is that I was feeling like I'll explode this morning and I needed some talk. I was at brink to call or send e-mail to brother and I wasn't sure would that do some damage to him. Today I was not 100% efficient at work and I was dreamy about my childhood all day long, my concentration was lost as well as connection to Earth smile.
My concern is related to feelings and scars that my brother used to have. He was really mess couple years ago. He was talking about child abuse and his feelings as victim. That was completely unknown area for me. When he talked to me I was in some shock myself and I could not talk too much. I put all my left energy to listen him and for attempt to calm him down somehow. I saw him when he was completely lost and that is something that bothers and scars me. I would never forgive myself if I will cause something like that happen again to him.
I wish I knew more about all this things at that time; It could do much more help and healing to both of us.
So one tide was pushing me to talk to bro and another one to keep quiet and wait for most appropriate moment.
I'll share all this to brother he is first at the list and I have some other names too. I desperately need that and my instincts are pushing me there.
One day I should also put my father to this list but o boy I'm scared just to think about that. As I type this I can hear roar of huge wave which is coming from my inside pushing me in that direction...



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#383885 - 01/30/12 07:34 PM Re: Facing past "trigger warning" [Re: peroperic2009]
peroperic2009 Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/09/11
Posts: 3603
Loc: South-East Europe
One more thing,
I would love so much to bring my bro here. That would be great thing and I'm willing to invite him.
Actually if I'll think better I can't wait to bring him here, to meet all of you and to find all your stories.
That would be something!!!

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My story

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#384005 - 01/31/12 11:36 PM Re: Facing past "trigger warning" [Re: peroperic2009]
peroperic2009 Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/09/11
Posts: 3603
Loc: South-East Europe
I have update here:
I've decided and wrote short e-mail to brother. I've told that I'm having some issues because of past. I've told him that I'm active at one great site where people who were abused met and that I need to speak to him about our childhood.
He wanted to know exact matter that are problematic for me but I told that we have time and that I'll slowly involve him.
Anyway we decided to talk today by phone and I feel really great!

_________________________
My story

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#384010 - 02/01/12 12:42 AM Re: Facing past "trigger warning" [Re: peroperic2009]
whome Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/07/11
Posts: 1734
Loc: Johannesburg South Africa
Hi Pero

Sorry, been away from the site due to tech issues and i have found this thread.
I was abused by a stranger, it started when I was young, I think it was my mother that was the start of the whole thing. She used to "Wash" me often, and I can remember the bad feeling that I got when she came into the bathroom.
I was then abused by several men, and then one day my brother asked me to do some stuff with him.
I told him that I didnt want to do that, and was lucky that he left it. But this stuck in my mind for a long long time. When I came to MS this memory came out again, and I also had to talk to him. Also because I am a loud mouth, and want to help others in my country, I thought I better talk to my older brother and tell him what is happening.
Well I went to my older brother and told him and his response was, Oh not you too. What, so he to was abused as a child. I told him all and he feels that he has dealt with it and that not thinking about it is a cure. I try often to tell him different.
I then Skyped my middle brother and told him, especially since I heard that he was planning to divorce his second wife. And he told me that he to was abused.
So I told him about this site, and gave him all the contacts that I have and he is actively working on the issues.
So what I am saying is that all you can do is give them the information, they may or may not use it. But you... you did the right thing so dont give up. It may be scary, but it is worth the effort.

Heal well
Martin

_________________________
Matrix Men South Africa
Survivors Supporting Each other
Matrix Men Blog

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#384054 - 02/01/12 02:36 PM Re: Facing past "trigger warning" [Re: whome]
peroperic2009 Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/09/11
Posts: 3603
Loc: South-East Europe
Thanks Martin for support and kind words.
I've finally talk to brother and guess what?
He was at MS for years, he wasn't been here for a while but he used to be a lot. We both were surprised, very funny thing smile!
I'm really revealed and feeling easier for some weight. Our memory is more or less same about childhood. He is still concerned if I could be gay and that he involved me into all this stuff. But I'm not; my confusion is least problem for me at the moment.
I'm so happy that we've talked, I can't find appropriate words to express myself!!!
Additionally Matrix Men: http://matrixmensa.blogspot.com/ will get some hits from Germany too!!!
Regards,
Pero

_________________________
My story

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#384057 - 02/01/12 02:52 PM Re: Facing past "trigger warning" [Re: peroperic2009]
whome Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/07/11
Posts: 1734
Loc: Johannesburg South Africa
Thanks Pero

Glad that you and your brother have spoken and that things are better between you.

Work hard and heal well
Martin

_________________________
Matrix Men South Africa
Survivors Supporting Each other
Matrix Men Blog

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#384071 - 02/01/12 06:40 PM Re: Facing past "trigger warning" [Re: whome]
traveler Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/07/06
Posts: 3377
Loc: somewhere in Africa
WONDERFUL news, Pero!

So happy for both of you that you are together in this. It will mpst likely multiply your healing rate to have the understanding of your brother - who shares the same memories and background. I can only imagine how "good" that must feel.

Smiling for ya!!!
Lee

_________________________
As my life goes on I believe somehow something's changed
Something deep inside...
I've been searchin so long to find an answer
Now I know my life has meaning
Now I see myself as I am, feeling very free...
When my tears have come to an end I will understand
What I left behind: a part of me. Chicago


Top
#384084 - 02/01/12 08:30 PM Re: Facing past "trigger warning" [Re: traveler]
peroperic2009 Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/09/11
Posts: 3603
Loc: South-East Europe
Yes Lee, wonderful news indeed,
It brought HUGE SMILE smile to my face.
It is 2:25 AM here; I'm full of adrenaline and feel
so overwhelmed that I don't know how and when I'll get to sleep wink.

_________________________
My story

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#384549 - 02/06/12 07:34 AM Re: Facing past "trigger warning" [Re: peroperic2009]
Ivo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 267
Loc: Germany
Originally Posted By: peroperic2009
I have to admit that I'm very connected to brother and don't know is he ready to dig in dark past.
As I can remember he used to teach me a lot of 'forbidden' things, he was like lieder and I was great follower in world of sexual discoveries. I cant recall when (but obviously very early) our knowledge has been leveled up.


Hi mine dear brother.
Yes, I am ready to speak openly and share what I know with the hope that it might help you feel better.
It is true that most of the things that you are facing now were passed from me to you, so in a way I feel responsible for your mess.

So this is how everything started, we were sometime just before school (we started school at 6). There were other boys in neighbourhood, most were older few years then we were.
Samir was one of those boys. I befriend him and his younger brother who was somehow mine age. I saw Samir as smart and older boy who did many adventures, so I wanted to be friend with him.

He was telling me stories about that hill above our house. Stories were nice in which he would describe playing there, hunting small animals like lizards and insects, searching for fossilized stones and such things that looked very cool to me.
Samir and his brother were not allowed to go so far away from home but they always did it under Samirís influence. One day I joined them too. I was a bit scared because I knew that I am not supposed to be there but I was also very curious to explore new things. Samir took us to the bushes and undress us, his brother knew what to do already. I was confused what is going on, Samir was aggressive and violent on moments and I froze and let them play wit mine body. I closed mine eyes and tried to think on something different, what shocked me was that mine body reacted to his stimulation against mine will. Later I came home and kept mine mouth shut, I was aware that something was changed inside of me, I could not sleep for days and felt panic when memories from that event would start to flow in mine mind. I even did not know what kind of activities we did and what does it mean.

I do not remember well how many times this repeated with Samir, I started to avoid him but it was not always possible since we lived so close. Then we moved away and I felt relieved.

Some time passed on and on one occasion we were talking with other boys about sexual activities. From this talk I realized final meaning of those things that I did with Samir and his brother on that hill and everything somehow was with new meaning. I also realized that you have no clues for most of those activities what they really mean. So I wanted to show you, that is how started our playing. I first show you how to jerk. I do not remember exactly how old we were but I know that we were well before puberty.

I spent a lot of time trying to reconstruct all those things over and over during years. Boy that you mention was living with his mother only and he moved out before us. I was not sure where and how Samir become so freaked up, mine first theory was that something was coming from his family, from father. He was from very conservative muslim family and atmosphere in his house was very strange for me, father was huge authority and Samir was a lot scared of him.

Another more probable theory is that there were actually three groups of boys, we were youngest, Samir and boy that you mentioned were a bit older and then there was group of almost grown ups. From Samir stories I remember that those oldest boys had somehow camping place in bushes on that hill and that sometime Samir went with them. I do not remember full faces or names of those boys but I know that I knew them indirectly from watching them playing around and from Samir stories. It could be that Samir was somehow abused by someone from this group.

The fact is that on that hill was always a lot of sexual activities, sometime grown up people would go there to have fun, but the same hill was also full of kids who were somehow exposed to this.

During time I knew that mine influence on you was completely inappropriate and that it would make mark on you. On the same time I did not have any borders and could not stop.

Now I would tell you few things regarding mine grown up status. I always knew that I am more attracted to the same sex. For me was problem barrier and anxiety wall that I felt for any other male that wanted to have something with me. I went on therapy and did take antidepressants. I was also able to speak about mine issues which was big improvement. At present most things are solved and I feel very good about myself.

Of course some things are part of me and it would be impossible to get rid of it. For example I am also addicted to porns and masturbation and in case that I am under big stress I become sexed up completely. If I want to date new guy it takes months before I feel relaxed on intimate level and could enjoy in sex. I also sometimes start sex during mine sleep like I was younger, before I did not like to share mine bed with other boys because of risk that I would start something without control and even now sometimes this can happen to me.
I have history of relationships with problematic persons, somehow I was looking specifically for problematic people (drugs, alcohol, sex issues etc.) because with such guys I was able to identify and feel more close.

Thatís all in short. If you have some questions I would be glad to try to answer you.
I am not so much concerned about your sexual orientation but more about your ability to have someone and enjoy relationships from all levels, it does not matter to me if your partner would be girl or guy.

Ivo


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#384582 - 02/06/12 01:44 PM Re: Facing past "trigger warning" [Re: Ivo]
peroperic2009 Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/09/11
Posts: 3603
Loc: South-East Europe
Hey blala,
I've wonder when and how would you show yourself. After I've seen that you've written I was feeling shivering along my spine smile.
It is some kind awkward situation for me to talk to you in English and in front of many people but what the hell.
I'm feeling at least completely like true myself and without any camouflage layers. Plus I'm familiar with almost all things that you've written and it is nice to hear it directly from you. At least I'm sure that I wasn't hallucinating all my life that we can understand each other and transfer information without to many words. I wish that we were able to speak openly about our issues many years ago but it's never late for self improvement.

So brothers survivors please let me introduce to all of you my older twin brother Ivo, I've felt blessed that both of us separately found way for some recovery and healing and that we crossed our paths at MS! What a day, this should be celebrated smile!

PS: Blala, we will certainly talk further about all messy things but just for that theme and for sake of my heart we would do it more privately smile!!!
Pero

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My story

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#384615 - 02/06/12 07:06 PM Re: Facing past "trigger warning" [Re: peroperic2009]
traveler Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/07/06
Posts: 3377
Loc: somewhere in Africa
AMAZING!

Wishing all the best to both of you!

I'm sure you will be great sources of comfort and support to one another. And so glad you're willing to share some of your memories and hard-won recovery process with all of us...

Lee

_________________________
As my life goes on I believe somehow something's changed
Something deep inside...
I've been searchin so long to find an answer
Now I know my life has meaning
Now I see myself as I am, feeling very free...
When my tears have come to an end I will understand
What I left behind: a part of me. Chicago


Top
#384619 - 02/06/12 08:02 PM Re: Facing past "trigger warning" [Re: traveler]
lapchinj Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/07/11
Posts: 1184
Loc: New York
Peace,Rainbows & Healing


Edited by lapchinj (03/17/13 11:14 PM)
_________________________
Stick around, It will get better....

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#384622 - 02/06/12 08:35 PM Re: Facing past "trigger warning" [Re: lapchinj]
Chase Eric Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/25/10
Posts: 1308
You are both an inspiration to me!

_________________________



Click my pic to see why I'm here

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#384664 - 02/07/12 06:01 AM Re: Facing past "trigger warning" [Re: peroperic2009]
Ivo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 267
Loc: Germany
Originally Posted By: peroperic2009

PS: Blala, we will certainly talk further about all messy things but just for that theme and for sake of my heart we would do it more privately smile!!!
Pero


Of course Blala, I feel here like at home lol and do not mind to talk maybe too openly, most people here have similar issues and know what we are talking about.

PS. for me is easier to speak in english, in our native language I am much more emotional so it is more difficult to open up.


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#384779 - 02/07/12 06:49 PM Re: Facing past "trigger warning" [Re: Ivo]
peroperic2009 Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/09/11
Posts: 3603
Loc: South-East Europe
Hi Lee, Eric and Jeff,
thanks for kind words, you all are awesome and for me heroes smile!!!
Now dear Brother, I've wonted to express my momentarily tension and excitement (my hearth is crazy these days) with all stuff; I didn't mean it really.
I'm aware of need to share all things even they are bad.
It is just crazy for me at the moment. I consider some gays here as friends and on other side you as my twin brother are also here. Third thing I've already exposed our dark past which includes sexual activities... All that mixed and put together is confusing and too much to swallow for me now.
Let say for me it is too complex equation:

Friends*MS+(twin brother/family matter)*CSA = (momentarily confusion)+Limes(quest for healing)-hopefully before infinity

I can't help myself I love math and I'm sure that we would find solution smile.


_________________________
My story

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#385400 - 02/12/12 12:38 AM Re: Facing past "trigger warning" [Re: peroperic2009]
peroperic2009 Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/09/11
Posts: 3603
Loc: South-East Europe
Hi everyone I've got some update related to my search for healing.
I have friend that is psychologist; we know each other for just one year. We have met at some poetry workshop and actually four of us from there become great friends. Yesterday I've sent short mail to her asking for advice in search for good therapist and voila: now I've also exchanged e-mails with my future T. So in short next friday I'll have first meeting with T and I'm thrilled.
Also I've told part of my story to some of my friends (three of them) and I'm getting huge support and understanding. It is great feeling that I need to share to everyone here smile!!!

One question to my dear brother:
I've also told part of our story to our niece to whom I'm like older brother, you know about whom I'm talking. We are very connected, she used to tell me all her secrets and problems. And sometimes I was only person for her out there who was giving her support which she didn't have in her own home. Now maybe in some future I'll have need to tell her our full story. If that would happen; how are your feelings regarding that? Would you be discomforted if someone from our family will know so intimate details about us? Also there in some future I'll talk to our dad. I presume that in that case I'll be in some awkward situation (he is a little bit distant person and not so talkative about intimate issues as I would like) and I'm not sure would I like to reveal everything to him. But in case if I would do some talk with my loud mouth tell me what would be your feelings?

PS. Blala I can't wait for July when you and J. will visit me, be prepared for meeting with huge crowd of my friends and for some lessons in Cuban salsa wink!



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My story

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#385549 - 02/13/12 08:19 AM Re: Facing past "trigger warning" [Re: peroperic2009]
Ivo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 267
Loc: Germany
Hi blala,
Of course you can share story with our niece if that would make you feel better, I do not have problems with that.

But with talks with our father I am not sure what would you achieve at the end, you know how much he sometimes worry and I wonder does he need this now when he is retired and in older age.

In general I think that you have some deep personal issues and that you are not even started to face them yet so be ready for some bumpy road and do not rush into anything and from time to time make break from this site too.

PS. I think that it would be beneficiary if I could come for few days to visit you and discuss all things in our way without other people arround.


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#385560 - 02/13/12 09:34 AM Re: Facing past "trigger warning" [Re: Ivo]
Castle Offline


Registered: 10/03/09
Posts: 727
Loc: NJ
I will say some of this is rather triggery to me and I wont post much, but I would ask a few questions and make a few statements....I dont know most of the story but I HAVE to the two questions below and it could just be translation or the likes, but the terminology is very important

"It is true that most of the things that you are facing now were passed from me to you, so in a way I feel responsible for your mess."

"in a way"? or are you accepting responsibility for the abuse? regardless of the why, or if others abused first.

and Secondly "that is how started our playing" was it playing or sexual abuse?

This is really challenging, (triggering for some) stuff here, I wonder and hope that doing this in a public forum is right for you both , but if its here its open to people responding and discussing it.

_________________________

My posts can self destruct at any time..read them while you can.

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#385563 - 02/13/12 10:18 AM Re: Facing past "trigger warning" [Re: Castle]
peroperic2009 Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/09/11
Posts: 3603
Loc: South-East Europe
Hey Castle,
be free to ask what ever you want to know about this thread. It is completely open for other people and for healing purposes. I know answers on your questions but I would let my bro to tell you in his name first. Somehow I can see that you and I are in a way at the same side of road.
I hope that you are feeling much better with yourself lately -I've just seen your first couple of posts so I'm not familiar with your recent thoughts and state of your recovery. I'm busy at the moment but later I would certainly read it in more details...
Be well
Pero


_________________________
My story

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#385567 - 02/13/12 10:56 AM Re: Facing past "trigger warning" [Re: peroperic2009]
Castle Offline


Registered: 10/03/09
Posts: 727
Loc: NJ
Ummm, its better if I self edit a bit what my thoughts are laugh

I have some stuff to do, and I will tell you that I was abused by my older brother ...he has not taken responsibility for his actions, nor do I know if he was also abused...althought there is a good possibility he was, I just dont know.

_________________________

My posts can self destruct at any time..read them while you can.

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#385572 - 02/13/12 11:18 AM Re: Facing past "trigger warning" [Re: Castle]
Ivo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 267
Loc: Germany
Originally Posted By: Castle

"It is true that most of the things that you are facing now were passed from me to you, so in a way I feel responsible for your mess."

"in a way"? or are you accepting responsibility for the abuse? regardless of the why, or if others abused first.



So for the first question the answer is that I accept fully mine responsibility. The fact is that mine brother has today problems caused by mine acts and I am aware of it.

Originally Posted By: Castle
and Secondly "that is how started our playing" was it playing or sexual abuse?

Well answer to this question depends on your exact definition of sexual abuse and it is related to first question too. Technically we were small kids of the same age when this happened, even mine Ąabuserď was just another few years older kid and I can not put full responsibility on him from todayís perspective. From practical point I did have advantage/experience compared to mine brother and I did use it on him, so it fits also term sexual abuse to some degree.


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#385588 - 02/13/12 02:26 PM Re: Facing past "trigger warning" [Re: Ivo]
Castle Offline


Registered: 10/03/09
Posts: 727
Loc: NJ
I hear what your saying.....I personally have a thing with the few years older...and play vs abuse....but thats my issue , and people sway to both sides.


I hope you all get what you need...and happy you take the responsibility for your actions....the rest is up to you two.

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#385590 - 02/13/12 02:37 PM Re: Facing past "trigger warning" [Re: Ivo]
peroperic2009 Offline
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Registered: 10/09/11
Posts: 3603
Loc: South-East Europe
Thanks bro fro your answer...
Dear Castle, I'm not sure if that could be called abuse, our experience wasn't violent in any sense; we were very small and totally lost children and we weren't aware of broader picture and meaning of all those things. You have to have in mind that we've started that kind of things by other older boys. And I as small boy used to knew that our behavior is consequence of experience whit those older boys. I've also knew that nor I nor my bro could control completely our behavior even we regularly tried.
In that respect we've felt like we were doing and playing sort of "forbidden" games. Things with other boys for me were something completely different and more related to abuse kind of things.
Blala, that part related to my possible talk to dad was just hypothetical question and I'm not sure would and when I'll talk to him. But have in mind that I need or let me be more precise my inner boy of 6 years has need to talk openly to his father and to feel encouraged to talk about some issues that are left on his shoulders. That need is strong and it will grow to colossal proportions in some future - this would be connected to my therapy.
I was feeling all my life that there are some things that are not allowed being asked by small child. That is one of reasons that we never talked to parents about our issues. I'm in some way very angry because of that, I was felt like I'm not clever enough or smart enough if I would ask some question related to sex things as small boy; I was left feeling like I was not competent to understand adult things. It was unbelievable for me that I knew more about animal world/kingdom than about human beings and its nature. I've knew more about insects and exotic animals by watching documentaries than about human behavior and sexual things by asking direct questions to our parents.
For me as 6 year old boy (or even younger) I was thinking that our elders where in some way immature and not ready for rising children, those were my thoughts when I would ask something and didn't got any logical answer. Because of that I'm furious when I see parents who are not interested to talk to children about all issues openly and when they treat child as someone who can't understand a thing. You know what is "proper" way of rising children in our culture, that I find very inadequate, old-fashioned and negative against child's need. It is relationship full with love and warmth but at other side far overprotective in its nature. Because of that (and there is more things also) I have desire to reshape from bottom to top my relation to father. Pardon me, but I don't give a damn about his age, cultural background and other things in that respect. I need to hear from him that he care about me, my problems, my interest and to get some understanding and support. I need to be recognized as competent and integrated person. Those are words/needs of small 6 years old boy that is left on his-own for so long time.
Those are things that bother me much more than CSA, my SSA or some other consequences of our inappropriate sex activities as boys. In some complex way that is interconnected whit CSA and I've consider it as deeper source of some our problems. I can't forgive myself because I didn't talk in such way to our mum and because she unfortunately died before I've had courage for serious talk. I can't help myself I was grown feeling like that and somehow it is my obligation to do it. In first place I need to do it for my own sake and secondly for sake of other children in our family. I would have many things to say to all our huge family members from grand father to all aunts and uncles but I wouldn't have opportunity for doing that and I don't see that I could accomplish a thing with so many of them. But our father wouldn't escape his fate smile what can I say...
In that kind of talk I've also felt need to present all of us children (including you and sister). Both of you also deserved better treatment. Overall I don't want to make inappropriate and bad critic to father and to make him worry or guilty for something. I just need to talk very openly and to get understood. I need in first place him to understand himself and his actions and to say all that aloud. I know that our father needs such talk maybe even more than we do.
I don't know from where I've got my awareness of all those issues but I was felt like I was born with it, those are my deepest feelings...
Please consider that I'm a little bit exited and not in good mood at the moment, but I stand for all that I've said.
Love you!
Pero

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#385680 - 02/14/12 03:17 AM Re: Facing past "trigger warning" [Re: Castle]
Ivo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 267
Loc: Germany
Castle: I see, I think that for you would be very important to openly talk with your brother. Sorry if mine question is stupid but did you ever tried to do that?

PS. Not all events are black and white and fall to the definition, what is important is to understand all circumstances, what exactly happened, how did it started and so on...so that you can get as good as possible perspective and eventually get over it...




Edited by Ivo (02/14/12 03:18 AM)

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#385681 - 02/14/12 03:20 AM Re: Facing past "trigger warning" [Re: peroperic2009]
Ivo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 267
Loc: Germany
Originally Posted By: peroperic2009
Thanks bro fro your answer...

Ok I got your point, it is true that many things should be set differently but I am also aware that those kind of things were not so easy. Our family was in extreme situation because of motherís illness and simply there was no time and energy on our parents side to deal with them, mother was practically fighting death each day and she lived so long mostly because of her love for us.

At the end we grew up in the shadow of this illness and our parents tried their best to somehow shield us from it, but despite all these efforts we are all marked and wounded somehow.

I am not sure would I be able to deal much better if I would be on fatherís place and send backward in time.


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#385755 - 02/14/12 04:57 PM Re: Facing past "trigger warning" [Re: Ivo]
Castle Offline


Registered: 10/03/09
Posts: 727
Loc: NJ
in my confrontation letter I gave my "brother" the oppertunity to take responsibility for his actions on my terms, he choose to decline the offer.

Its a very polarizing topic Im happy for yous that your able to work it out.

personally regardless of the "reason" abuse is not something one just gets over and its pretty black and white to me...I was sexually abused by my brother, no reason takes that or my hurt away.

Just a point of language...we dont usually talk of "getting over it" thats not something thats really a great thing to say to survivors....IE when somebody says..it happened so long ago why can't you just get over it....eh, not the best thing.

If and when I get my acknowledgment and I hear that he was abused if he was, ill figure that out with the help and guidance of T and my loyal peeps.

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My posts can self destruct at any time..read them while you can.

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#385853 - 02/15/12 03:07 AM Re: Facing past "trigger warning" [Re: Castle]
Ivo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 267
Loc: Germany
Sorry for mine expression, it is difficult for me to choose right terms.
What I wanted to say is to get to the point in which you will be able to look backward without too much negative emotions, somehow to decouple from it and be able to see it from broader picture and make yourself a bit more at peace with evetns that happened. Of course this is not easy and there are limits how much can we achieve and be successfull in doing it, for me such thinking helped a lot to get better understanding but each case is different and we are all different people so what worked for me it does not mean that will work for you and so on.

I hope you do not feel offended, that was not mine intention.


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#385928 - 02/15/12 05:05 PM Re: Facing past "trigger warning" [Re: Ivo]
peroperic2009 Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/09/11
Posts: 3603
Loc: South-East Europe
Originally Posted By: Ivo
At the end we grew up in the shadow of this illness and our parents tried their best to somehow shield us from it, but despite all these efforts we are all marked and wounded somehow.

I am not sure would I be able to deal much better if I would be on fatherís place and send backward in time.

I agree completely and really don't want to judge our parents, they did best they could. I just need some recognition to be accepted as equal person to them/"adults". I've recently realized that I was put aside as small kid and that is my biggest scar from childhood. Intention was good, they wonted to protect us but I was at same time hurt and felt like I'm left alone. Never mind I'll think much more before I'm gonna talk to dad, that will happen in some future. I've had already some talks with him and our relationship has improved last couple of years although I'm not yet satisfied with his understandings of us kids. There were situations (recently) when he almost expected that I must be in emotional way completely devoted to him, that was a little bit too much for me and I've needed to put some boundary and to distance myself. He didn't understand at all what happened, again I was felt like he is child and I some old man. But that will be theme for talk to you also sometimes in future...

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