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#385560 - 02/13/12 09:34 AM Re: Facing past "trigger warning" [Re: Ivo]
Castle Offline


Registered: 10/03/09
Posts: 727
Loc: NJ
I will say some of this is rather triggery to me and I wont post much, but I would ask a few questions and make a few statements....I dont know most of the story but I HAVE to the two questions below and it could just be translation or the likes, but the terminology is very important

"It is true that most of the things that you are facing now were passed from me to you, so in a way I feel responsible for your mess."

"in a way"? or are you accepting responsibility for the abuse? regardless of the why, or if others abused first.

and Secondly "that is how started our playing" was it playing or sexual abuse?

This is really challenging, (triggering for some) stuff here, I wonder and hope that doing this in a public forum is right for you both , but if its here its open to people responding and discussing it.

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#385563 - 02/13/12 10:18 AM Re: Facing past "trigger warning" [Re: Castle]
peroperic2009 Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/09/11
Posts: 3603
Loc: South-East Europe
Hey Castle,
be free to ask what ever you want to know about this thread. It is completely open for other people and for healing purposes. I know answers on your questions but I would let my bro to tell you in his name first. Somehow I can see that you and I are in a way at the same side of road.
I hope that you are feeling much better with yourself lately -I've just seen your first couple of posts so I'm not familiar with your recent thoughts and state of your recovery. I'm busy at the moment but later I would certainly read it in more details...
Be well
Pero


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#385567 - 02/13/12 10:56 AM Re: Facing past "trigger warning" [Re: peroperic2009]
Castle Offline


Registered: 10/03/09
Posts: 727
Loc: NJ
Ummm, its better if I self edit a bit what my thoughts are laugh

I have some stuff to do, and I will tell you that I was abused by my older brother ...he has not taken responsibility for his actions, nor do I know if he was also abused...althought there is a good possibility he was, I just dont know.

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#385572 - 02/13/12 11:18 AM Re: Facing past "trigger warning" [Re: Castle]
Ivo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 267
Loc: Germany
Originally Posted By: Castle

"It is true that most of the things that you are facing now were passed from me to you, so in a way I feel responsible for your mess."

"in a way"? or are you accepting responsibility for the abuse? regardless of the why, or if others abused first.



So for the first question the answer is that I accept fully mine responsibility. The fact is that mine brother has today problems caused by mine acts and I am aware of it.

Originally Posted By: Castle
and Secondly "that is how started our playing" was it playing or sexual abuse?

Well answer to this question depends on your exact definition of sexual abuse and it is related to first question too. Technically we were small kids of the same age when this happened, even mine „abuser“ was just another few years older kid and I can not put full responsibility on him from today’s perspective. From practical point I did have advantage/experience compared to mine brother and I did use it on him, so it fits also term sexual abuse to some degree.


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#385588 - 02/13/12 02:26 PM Re: Facing past "trigger warning" [Re: Ivo]
Castle Offline


Registered: 10/03/09
Posts: 727
Loc: NJ
I hear what your saying.....I personally have a thing with the few years older...and play vs abuse....but thats my issue , and people sway to both sides.


I hope you all get what you need...and happy you take the responsibility for your actions....the rest is up to you two.

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#385590 - 02/13/12 02:37 PM Re: Facing past "trigger warning" [Re: Ivo]
peroperic2009 Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/09/11
Posts: 3603
Loc: South-East Europe
Thanks bro fro your answer...
Dear Castle, I'm not sure if that could be called abuse, our experience wasn't violent in any sense; we were very small and totally lost children and we weren't aware of broader picture and meaning of all those things. You have to have in mind that we've started that kind of things by other older boys. And I as small boy used to knew that our behavior is consequence of experience whit those older boys. I've also knew that nor I nor my bro could control completely our behavior even we regularly tried.
In that respect we've felt like we were doing and playing sort of "forbidden" games. Things with other boys for me were something completely different and more related to abuse kind of things.
Blala, that part related to my possible talk to dad was just hypothetical question and I'm not sure would and when I'll talk to him. But have in mind that I need or let me be more precise my inner boy of 6 years has need to talk openly to his father and to feel encouraged to talk about some issues that are left on his shoulders. That need is strong and it will grow to colossal proportions in some future - this would be connected to my therapy.
I was feeling all my life that there are some things that are not allowed being asked by small child. That is one of reasons that we never talked to parents about our issues. I'm in some way very angry because of that, I was felt like I'm not clever enough or smart enough if I would ask some question related to sex things as small boy; I was left feeling like I was not competent to understand adult things. It was unbelievable for me that I knew more about animal world/kingdom than about human beings and its nature. I've knew more about insects and exotic animals by watching documentaries than about human behavior and sexual things by asking direct questions to our parents.
For me as 6 year old boy (or even younger) I was thinking that our elders where in some way immature and not ready for rising children, those were my thoughts when I would ask something and didn't got any logical answer. Because of that I'm furious when I see parents who are not interested to talk to children about all issues openly and when they treat child as someone who can't understand a thing. You know what is "proper" way of rising children in our culture, that I find very inadequate, old-fashioned and negative against child's need. It is relationship full with love and warmth but at other side far overprotective in its nature. Because of that (and there is more things also) I have desire to reshape from bottom to top my relation to father. Pardon me, but I don't give a damn about his age, cultural background and other things in that respect. I need to hear from him that he care about me, my problems, my interest and to get some understanding and support. I need to be recognized as competent and integrated person. Those are words/needs of small 6 years old boy that is left on his-own for so long time.
Those are things that bother me much more than CSA, my SSA or some other consequences of our inappropriate sex activities as boys. In some complex way that is interconnected whit CSA and I've consider it as deeper source of some our problems. I can't forgive myself because I didn't talk in such way to our mum and because she unfortunately died before I've had courage for serious talk. I can't help myself I was grown feeling like that and somehow it is my obligation to do it. In first place I need to do it for my own sake and secondly for sake of other children in our family. I would have many things to say to all our huge family members from grand father to all aunts and uncles but I wouldn't have opportunity for doing that and I don't see that I could accomplish a thing with so many of them. But our father wouldn't escape his fate smile what can I say...
In that kind of talk I've also felt need to present all of us children (including you and sister). Both of you also deserved better treatment. Overall I don't want to make inappropriate and bad critic to father and to make him worry or guilty for something. I just need to talk very openly and to get understood. I need in first place him to understand himself and his actions and to say all that aloud. I know that our father needs such talk maybe even more than we do.
I don't know from where I've got my awareness of all those issues but I was felt like I was born with it, those are my deepest feelings...
Please consider that I'm a little bit exited and not in good mood at the moment, but I stand for all that I've said.
Love you!
Pero

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#385680 - 02/14/12 03:17 AM Re: Facing past "trigger warning" [Re: Castle]
Ivo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 267
Loc: Germany
Castle: I see, I think that for you would be very important to openly talk with your brother. Sorry if mine question is stupid but did you ever tried to do that?

PS. Not all events are black and white and fall to the definition, what is important is to understand all circumstances, what exactly happened, how did it started and so on...so that you can get as good as possible perspective and eventually get over it...




Edited by Ivo (02/14/12 03:18 AM)

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#385681 - 02/14/12 03:20 AM Re: Facing past "trigger warning" [Re: peroperic2009]
Ivo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 267
Loc: Germany
Originally Posted By: peroperic2009
Thanks bro fro your answer...

Ok I got your point, it is true that many things should be set differently but I am also aware that those kind of things were not so easy. Our family was in extreme situation because of mother’s illness and simply there was no time and energy on our parents side to deal with them, mother was practically fighting death each day and she lived so long mostly because of her love for us.

At the end we grew up in the shadow of this illness and our parents tried their best to somehow shield us from it, but despite all these efforts we are all marked and wounded somehow.

I am not sure would I be able to deal much better if I would be on father’s place and send backward in time.


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#385755 - 02/14/12 04:57 PM Re: Facing past "trigger warning" [Re: Ivo]
Castle Offline


Registered: 10/03/09
Posts: 727
Loc: NJ
in my confrontation letter I gave my "brother" the oppertunity to take responsibility for his actions on my terms, he choose to decline the offer.

Its a very polarizing topic Im happy for yous that your able to work it out.

personally regardless of the "reason" abuse is not something one just gets over and its pretty black and white to me...I was sexually abused by my brother, no reason takes that or my hurt away.

Just a point of language...we dont usually talk of "getting over it" thats not something thats really a great thing to say to survivors....IE when somebody says..it happened so long ago why can't you just get over it....eh, not the best thing.

If and when I get my acknowledgment and I hear that he was abused if he was, ill figure that out with the help and guidance of T and my loyal peeps.

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My posts can self destruct at any time..read them while you can.

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#385853 - 02/15/12 03:07 AM Re: Facing past "trigger warning" [Re: Castle]
Ivo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 267
Loc: Germany
Sorry for mine expression, it is difficult for me to choose right terms.
What I wanted to say is to get to the point in which you will be able to look backward without too much negative emotions, somehow to decouple from it and be able to see it from broader picture and make yourself a bit more at peace with evetns that happened. Of course this is not easy and there are limits how much can we achieve and be successfull in doing it, for me such thinking helped a lot to get better understanding but each case is different and we are all different people so what worked for me it does not mean that will work for you and so on.

I hope you do not feel offended, that was not mine intention.


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