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#383505 - 01/26/12 07:42 AM Freaking Flag at half mast in PA....
JustScott Offline
Greeter Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 2574
Governor Tom Corbett has ordered all Pennsylvania flags in the Capitol Complex and at Commonwealth facilities statewide to fly at half-staff to honor former Penn State football coach Joe Paterno, who died Sunday at the age of 85. Flags are to remain at half-staff thru sunset on Thursday, January 26.


This SOB has so totally lost my vote. Regardless of the PSU situation, when the Hell did sports figures rate so high that we fly the flag at half mast when they die?????

Certainly shows what this jackwagon's priorities are.

And yes.... this will be remembered by me at the very least come re-election time.



Edited by JustScott (01/26/12 07:44 AM)

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#383511 - 01/26/12 08:43 AM Re: Freaking Flag at half mast in PA.... [Re: JustScott]
pluckmemory Offline


Registered: 03/27/08
Posts: 554
Unbelievable.


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#383517 - 01/26/12 09:30 AM Re: Freaking Flag at half mast in PA.... [Re: pluckmemory]
Canuck Offline


Registered: 05/26/10
Posts: 56
Loc: CA, United States
PA Governor Tom Corbett is offensive and disgusting.


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#383543 - 01/26/12 02:34 PM Re: Freaking Flag at half mast in PA.... [Re: Canuck]
pluckmemory Offline


Registered: 03/27/08
Posts: 554
Everyone here needs to read this tribute to victims, written over at the blog Daily Kos by a survivor who is angered at the accolades and tributes to Joe Paterno:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/01/26/1058599/-“No-One-Spoke-Up-for-Us:-For-The-Children-Who-Had-No-Voice-and-For-those-finally-finding-Theirs?via=siderecent




Edited by pluckmemory (01/26/12 02:36 PM)

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#383546 - 01/26/12 02:52 PM Re: Freaking Flag at half mast in PA.... [Re: pluckmemory]
LandOfShadow Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 684
Loc: Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
Another Kossack? :-)

I liked her other one too. The rant. Ugly like it is. That one's real triggery folks. Be mindful.

_________________________
Et par le pouvoir d’un mot Je recommence ma vie, Je suis né pour te connaître, Pour te nommer
Liberté

And by the power of a single word I can begin my life again, I was born to know you, to name you
Freedom

Paul Eluard

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#383550 - 01/26/12 03:53 PM Re: Freaking Flag at half mast in PA.... [Re: LandOfShadow]
Canuck Offline


Registered: 05/26/10
Posts: 56
Loc: CA, United States
I have written a letter to Governor Corbett. You can plagiarize from me all you want:

Dear Governor Corbett,

I took a moment today to read your January 22, 2012 expression of condolences on the death of Joe Paterno, and your January 23, 2012 State Flag half staff order in honor of Joe Paterno.

I understand that Joe Paterno has meant a great deal to the State, in terms of fame and publicity, as well as in his “Generosity to Penn State as an institution.”

I would like to take a moment of your time to call attention to the grave damage that child molestation does to its victims. In most cases, children in such situations develop an intense mistrust of the very people who should be able to help them, especially when they perceive that people who should be helping them are failing to do so. These innate, learned responses persist well into adulthood, leading to a very difficult life for many victims of such crimes. In addition to feeling socially awkward our outcast, we typically suffer more health problems than the general population; we have greater odds of engaging in dangerous behaviors, acting out violently, and drug and alcohol abuse. We are often depressed, we have frequent suicidal thoughts, and sometimes, we follow through on those thoughts.

Child Molesters seem to have a unique ability to attach themselves to people who are financially, legally, and politically well connected, so that they have important people to defend them when they are exposed of their heinous crimes. This attachment often becomes insidious, pervasive, and inseparable without perceived sacrifice on the part of the persons defending the molester.

Mike McQueary, Tim Curley, Gary Schultz, Graham Spanier, and Joe Paterno are all people who fell into Jerry Sandusky’s trap, and they DID NOT “confront adversities” with “grace and forbearance.” Instead, they allowed colossal human damage to continue for a decade. Those men were too afraid of damage to their own reputations to stop Sandusky, and it is likely that no one will ever know the number of children victimized.

The victims of such crimes are often very attuned to those people who child molesters use as character witnesses, and the very mention of these supporters opens up wounds anew, almost as painful as the actual abuse was.

Your celebration of the “man,” Joe Paterno, is undoubtedly causing additional pain and grief in those who have suffered, and those who care about them.

It is shameful that your office has issued these tributes without also acknowledging the atrocious damage that Paterno has allowed.

Your office has fallen victim to the same seduction that McQueary, Curley, Schultz, Spanier, and Paterno have fallen for: You gain more popularity by celebrating the hero, than you would in standing up strongly for those damaged. And in so doing, you re-enforce the victim’s distrust of everyone who should have the power to stop the damage.

I hope you will take some time to learn about the damage that child molestation does to people, short and long term, and take it to heart in the future.




Emails can be sent to governor@pa.gov

His meat-mail and telephone information are here: http://www.governor.state.pa.us/portal/server.pt/community/contact/2998

There is a form-mail link on his page there as well. Take thirty seconds to copy/paste/swamp.




Edited by Canuck (01/26/12 03:54 PM)

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#383551 - 01/26/12 04:00 PM Re: Freaking Flag at half mast in PA.... [Re: Canuck]
LN3(SS) Offline
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Registered: 06/20/08
Posts: 486
Loc: MD
I think not flying the flag at half staff would disrespect Pateno's memory. Paterno did nothing wrong.

Alas it will all be over in a few hours. JoePa will have received his due.

Brian

_________________________
"When we go into battle, I will be the first to set foot on the field, and I will be the last to step off, and I will leave no one behind. Dead, or alive, we will all come home together." LTG Hal Moore, Jr., USA (Ret.)

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#383553 - 01/26/12 04:03 PM Re: Freaking Flag at half mast in PA.... [Re: LN3(SS)]
pluckmemory Offline


Registered: 03/27/08
Posts: 554
Paterno did not protect the victims and did not fulfill his duties as a mandated reporter. It's not clear to me how one can state that he did "nothing wrong."


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#383555 - 01/26/12 04:08 PM Re: Freaking Flag at half mast in PA.... [Re: pluckmemory]
Obi Offline
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Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 1309
Loc: kansas
i think that the thing that should've been added is

the flags fly half mast for support of the victims from now until the trial is over with.

_________________________
live another day. climb a little higher.

my story

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#383560 - 01/26/12 05:21 PM Re: Freaking Flag at half mast in PA.... [Re: Obi]
LN3(SS) Offline
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Registered: 06/20/08
Posts: 486
Loc: MD
Paterno did protect the victims and did fulfill his duties as a mandated reporter.
http://law.onecle.com/pennsylvania/domestic-relations/00.063.011.000.html
Quote:
23 Pa.C.S. §6311(c) Staff members of institutions, etc.--Whenever a person is required to report under subsection (b) in the capacity as a member of the staff of a medical or other public or private institution, school, facility or agency, that person shall immediately notify the person in charge of the institution, school, facility or agency or the designated agent of the person in charge. Upon notification, the person in charge or the designated agent, if any, shall assume the responsibility and have the legal obligation to report or cause a report to be made in accordance with section 6313. This chapter does not require more than one report from any such institution, school, facility or agency.


According to the Pennsylvania Code, Paterno did exactly what he was supposed to do. He notified the chief law enforcement officer of Penn State (i.e. the designated agent of the person in charge).

I notice that it is almost sunset here on the East Coast. I'm glad Pennsylvania honored him.

Brian

_________________________
"When we go into battle, I will be the first to set foot on the field, and I will be the last to step off, and I will leave no one behind. Dead, or alive, we will all come home together." LTG Hal Moore, Jr., USA (Ret.)

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#383561 - 01/26/12 06:12 PM Re: Freaking Flag at half mast in PA.... [Re: LN3(SS)]
KMCINVA Offline
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Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 1618
I think you need to look at the moral and not just the legal responsibilities. I believe he should not have been honored with the cloud of the scandal hanging over his head-and that of Sandusky,et al. To me, it seems to say victims he was a hero, but to the victims he was not a hero but rather a coward who ran to his bosses and washed his hands of the situation. Now, Paterno was an outspoken individual, and I believe to have been outspoken on this situation would have been the right thing to do, but he chose to protect the institution and sadly his sports program. If he had spoken out he would have been a hero.


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#383605 - 01/27/12 03:16 AM Re: Freaking Flag at half mast in PA.... [Re: KMCINVA]
markchristopher Offline


Registered: 08/23/10
Posts: 36
Loc: Washington USA
I hope this does not turn into a fight between ourselves.

To preface this I will say that more could have been done. Not only by Paterno, but by every person involved.

I personally see blame as a game many people like to play, but no one can win at. After reading several articles I actually find all the outrage and hate being thrown at this man quite undeserved. This was not the only man involved. He told TWO other people, and there was also the man who told him. Yet somehow these other three people are being forgotten in this?

What the exact duties are of the university police I am not sure, but I believe they include the need to report to the state/city police a situation of abuse that has been reported to them. If anyone is responsible for not passing on information it would be that man. Is it too much to think that maybe Paterno thought the issue was taken care of? He had already informed the "police" albeit University police, but someone who's job it was to take care of things like this.

To take the known facts, that Paterno not only told but told two people, and then say that Paterno was PROTECTING this abuser, I think, is nothing other than misdirected hate. We have already been through so much of that dark black and icky substance that I can't see why we must continually fling it on bystanders. We should be a force for enlightenment, encouragement, and emotional support. Not a faction destined to ruin any person who learned of another's abuse, but when they told happened to tell someone unwilling to repeat that morally required deed.

If we wish people to get more involved and protective of children we should not be punishing those who tell. We should instead be using this story as an example to others for why just telling is not enough. YES Paterno told, but it wasn't enough to fix the problem. When someone sees, hears, or learns of abuse we should be encouraging people to not only tell but to take ownership of the problem. They should go back and ask what is being done about the problem, not just forget about it hoping that it has gone away.

I think that McQueary could have given more information to Paterno to make sure he understood the severity of what was going on. Paterno and McQueary should have both gone to the proper authorities and notified them. They should have also gone back to ensure something was being done. BUT, most notably, I feel Paterno did do what he "felt" was right and needed and did not just brush it off. Again that really should have been enough since the men he told were supposed to pass this on as well. So if fault does lie with one of these men it is with the men that Paterno told.

To sum this up it seems to be a burning of a public figure for the failings of those around him.



Edited by markchristopher (01/27/12 03:23 AM)

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#383628 - 01/27/12 12:13 PM Re: Freaking Flag at half mast in PA.... [Re: markchristopher]
catfish86 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/27/09
Posts: 820
Loc: Ohio
The actions of Joe Paterno in NEVER SAYING ANOTHER WORD ABOUT IT, even while Sandusky was a regular on campus is the point. Joe Paterno was a micromanager yet let this one go. They all did. Joe Paterno soiled his own reputation and both he, his family and PSU have to accept that. Look at what happened to Jim Tressel over tattoos and cell phones. What continues to bring derision is the apologists who minimize what the PSU culture did. The state prosecutor got it right when she stated everyone involved with this program acted disgracefully. Give up, you will not find sympathy for Joe Paterno on this board. The more you research the facts of this case, the more pissed off it makes you.



Edited by catfish86 (01/27/12 02:47 PM)
Edit Reason: KMCINVA is right, prosecutor referred to everyone
_________________________
God grant me
The Serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The Courage to change the things I can,
And the Wisdom to know the difference.

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#383635 - 01/27/12 02:03 PM Re: Freaking Flag at half mast in PA.... [Re: catfish86]
KMCINVA Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 1618
Question the prosecutors comments should it be everyone or noone? thanks


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#383644 - 01/27/12 02:45 PM Re: Freaking Flag at half mast in PA.... [Re: KMCINVA]
pluckmemory Offline


Registered: 03/27/08
Posts: 554
Joe Paterno stated in an interview before he died that he had never heard of men raping kids. Give me a break. What a dissembler.

Say a prayer for the brave Sandusky victims. No one should waste one more second defending Paterno.


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#383649 - 01/27/12 03:12 PM Re: Freaking Flag at half mast in PA.... [Re: LN3(SS)]
pluckmemory Offline


Registered: 03/27/08
Posts: 554
Look, think about it -- the boys were being raped. This calls for urgency on the part of adults who knew what Sandusky was doing. You don't just say "OK, I reported Sandusky to my boss, so I guess I've done my duty." These were boys who were being raped. Any moral adult would keep at the authority he reported this to, to contact law enforcement. This was a life and death situation.

Back in 2002, I reported Dr. William Ayres to the police after one of his victims told me Ayres had molested him at the age of 12. When I called the police, they were ho-hum and were ambivalent about investigating him. I didn't say " OK, now I've fulfilled my duty as stated by the law and reported the abuse, so I think I will sit back." I kept at the police for FIVE YEARS. As we have seen in the priests cases and in the Ayres case, if you don't have citizens really ringing the alarm, often DA's and police and Children's Services won't do anything.

It's up to each and every citizen to go beyond the call of duty and make sure that law enforcement are contacted when there is a known predator out there raping boys.

I don't think some people realize just how hard it is to get the attention of law enforcement. You can be sure if Joe Paterno had been a mensch and insisted that the police be contacted, that they would have done something


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#385175 - 02/10/12 01:01 PM Re: Freaking Flag at half mast in PA.... [Re: LN3(SS)]
pluckmemory Offline


Registered: 03/27/08
Posts: 554

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#385180 - 02/10/12 02:01 PM Re: Freaking Flag at half mast in PA.... [Re: pluckmemory]
KMCINVA Offline
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Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 1618
Isn't he in court trying to allow his grandchildren to visit him. Judge took request under advisement. The are also arguing over where the jury pool should come from--locally or from another county. Prosecutors are pushing for outside of local area. I wonder how many delays there will be?


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#385262 - 02/11/12 07:44 AM Re: Freaking Flag at half mast in PA.... [Re: KMCINVA]
pluckmemory Offline


Registered: 03/27/08
Posts: 554
I believe it has been settled that he will be tried locally. Don't know whether anything has been decided about the grandchildren. I believe that one of the wives of one of Sandusky's adopted children does not want him to see his grandson.


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#385580 - 02/13/12 01:27 PM Re: Freaking Flag at half mast in PA.... [Re: pluckmemory]
pluckmemory Offline


Registered: 03/27/08
Posts: 554
Judge allows visits for 11 out of 14 Sandusky grandchildren:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/02/13/us-usa-crime-sandusky-idUSTRE81C15520120213


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#385611 - 02/13/12 06:49 PM Re: Freaking Flag at half mast in PA.... [Re: pluckmemory]
Canuck Offline


Registered: 05/26/10
Posts: 56
Loc: CA, United States
Originally Posted By: pluckmemory
Judge allows visits for 11 out of 14 Sandusky grandchildren


I had a very good friend who was married to a woman, and they had several girls. The girls were molested by the wife's father. It turns out that the wife was molested by the same man (her father).

My friend reported the man, against the protest of all of the wife's family, and after he was sentenced, the molester's wife (the grandmother of the molested girls) demanded that the judge allow (force) visitation of the molested grandchildren to the molester while he was in prison.

Fortunately THAT judge was not completely stupid.

Seems to be a common theme though. People just can't accept/face how horrible the damage is, and they just pretend that it doesn't exist.

Wouldn't be so bad if all of the perps and their supporters all expired due to high-velocity lead-poisoning.



Edited by Canuck (02/13/12 06:49 PM)

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#385695 - 02/14/12 07:35 AM Re: Freaking Flag at half mast in PA.... [Re: LN3(SS)]
Still Offline
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Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6400
Loc: 2.5 NATO Nations
Originally Posted By: LN3(SS)

According to the Pennsylvania Code, Paterno did exactly what he was supposed to do. He notified the chief law enforcement officer of Penn State (i.e. the designated agent of the person in charge).

I notice that it is almost sunset here on the East Coast. I'm glad Pennsylvania honored him.

Brian


The people of Third-Riech Germany followed the laws as well. Thus, by your hand-washing positioning, the German citizenry are free of blame as well.

I don't get why anyone would seek "outs" for such a pathetic bag-o-filth.

_________________________
Wishing You Were Here!

The Aftermath Video

The Water Buffalo Song

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#385732 - 02/14/12 02:23 PM Re: Freaking Flag at half mast in PA.... [Re: Still]
sono Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/19/09
Posts: 1069
LN3(SS)

Brian, Get a grip...the old SOB knew a rapist was going around raping boys and watching his fucking games from the Elite Box. Saying he went to the campus police was good enough? Anybody with half a clue knows campus police at a university are rent a cops able to write parking tickets and break up a student fight at best...although they didn't do too great a job of that recently either. Robbie Brown is quite correct is his analogy IMO. If your allegiance to Penn State or football is so strong you can't see that, then man...you got some work to do with your therapist. If you cite the Pennsylvania code as saying he did enough, then how about a human code where you don't let kids get raped...or is that not such a concern for you? Just askin' 'cause you can't have it both ways. Either you support child protection or you support Joe Paterno...those are mutually ex-fuckin'-clusive. He did the MINIMUM he had to do to protect himself. What a great man.

I see you are an adult abuse survivor, and I'm very sorry for that. But coming in and offering your opinions which are in support of a protector of a child rapist and are clearly contrary to those of us who had our lives stolen at an early age is so un-cool I can't even describe it. Are you entitled to your opinion? well yeah sure...but if you're putting it out there, then I can say it's lame. Why don't we go give some medals to those guys who didn't do anything about your rape?

Take your post to the Penn State Alumni forum...I'm sure it'd get lots of applause there.

Oh and one more thing, you said that by the time the funeral is over "Joe Pa will have received his due". Well, in my opinion JoePa will not have received his due till he gets one up the ass from Sandusky in the showers of Hell. I'm sure someone will report it in a few days. JoePathetic. Hope you like playing on his team.

_________________________
the family
the perp

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#385736 - 02/14/12 02:49 PM Re: Freaking Flag at half mast in PA.... [Re: sono]
Mulligan Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/15/10
Posts: 94
Loc: USA
I personally don't think Paterno endured quite enough humilation. If there is a hell, I hope he is there......in the shower! JoePerpterno!

_________________________
Because I never give up the fight!

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#385737 - 02/14/12 03:06 PM Re: Freaking Flag at half mast in PA.... [Re: Mulligan]
pluckmemory Offline


Registered: 03/27/08
Posts: 554
http://www.philly.com/philly/news/breaking/139278153.html

The mother of three of Jerry Sandusky's grandchildren is vowing to fight to bar the former Penn State assistant football coach from having access to her children while he awaits trial on child sex abuse charges.

In a statement sent to reporters hours after a judge approved visits between Sandusky and his 11 other grandchildren on Monday, former daughter-in-law Jill Thomas said psychologists who had treated her 5-year-old son "could not rule out that Jerry Sandusky was grooming him for sexual abuse"




Edited by pluckmemory (02/14/12 03:06 PM)

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#385744 - 02/14/12 03:54 PM Re: Freaking Flag at half mast in PA.... [Re: pluckmemory]
Castle Offline


Registered: 10/03/09
Posts: 727
Loc: NJ
I stand as always with my peeps, Sono and Mulligan.

_________________________

My posts can self destruct at any time..read them while you can.

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#385764 - 02/14/12 05:43 PM Re: Freaking Flag at half mast in PA.... [Re: Castle]
LN3(SS) Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/20/08
Posts: 486
Loc: MD
Originally Posted By: sono
Anybody with half a clue knows campus police at a university are rent a cops able to write parking tickets and break up a student fight at best...although they didn't do too great a job of that recently either.
I disagree. The PSU Police have all the regular powers of a municipal police department in the Commonwealth. http://www.police.psu.edu/statestatutes/

Originally Posted By: sono
If your allegiance to Penn State or football is so strong you can't see that, then man...you got some work to do with your therapist.
I don't have an allegiance to either one. Thank you for assuming that I did.

Originally Posted By: sono
If you cite the Pennsylvania code as saying he did enough, then how about a human code where you don't let kids get raped...or is that not such a concern for you?
I would suggest that instead of focusing on some sort of altruistic "human code" we focus our efforts on getting people to follow the law. Two people are already under indictment for failing to follow the law and report this crime. The perpetrator will be tried for his actions. If we want to get mad at someone let's get mad at the people who broke the law. If we want to change the law fine. Let's not get mad at the person that followed the law as it was written.
The law is the "human code" that has been adopted by the people of Pennsylvania. Paterno followed the law. Therefore he followed the "human code" that was adopted by his state.

Originally Posted By: sono
Why don't we go give some medals to those guys who didn't do anything about your rape?
That has already been done. My CO received a Legion of Merit for his end of tour award. He was nothing like Joe Paterno. Joe reported the crime just like he was supposed to do. He reported it to the people he was mandated to report it to. Joe DID something. My CO did not.

Originally Posted By: sono
But coming in and offering your opinions which are in support of a protector of a child rapist and are clearly contrary to those of us who had our lives stolen at an early age is so un-cool I can't even describe it.
As another person in this thread said, Paterno did not protect Sandusky. If this was the CSA forum I would not be offering my input. This is not the CSA Forum and this topic is highly relevant to my experiences.

Brian

_________________________
"When we go into battle, I will be the first to set foot on the field, and I will be the last to step off, and I will leave no one behind. Dead, or alive, we will all come home together." LTG Hal Moore, Jr., USA (Ret.)

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#385864 - 02/15/12 07:26 AM Re: Freaking Flag at half mast in PA.... [Re: LN3(SS)]
Still Offline
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Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6400
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If I were the Captain of a vessel and one of my crew were smuggling-in a brick of cocaine, I be held criminally liable under the common-law cannon that I am responsible and accountable for all that happens on my vessel. Its why the Board of Directors threw Paterno out on his arse.

Paterno was the leader of the Penn football program. He knew wrongdoing was fully underway from the more-recent rape and older problems with Sandusky. We heard Matt Paknis, who actually worked under Paterno, that the entire house-of-Paterno was "strangely behaving" behind the scenes.

A competent Captain would purge this ship. A healthy-minded Captain would say I am not going to preside over debauchery. A Little boy being raped in the shower would clearly be enough obvious evidence to warrant a complete purging and shut-down of the program. THAT is what a good and righteous leader would do. He would exhibit CHARACTER. He would not skitter for pathetic shelters...for "I followed the letter-of-the-law" excuses.

Paterno exhibited that he had poor character. That he protected his image, his program and what really matters in State College, PA. He protected Penn Football.

Again; Letter-of-the-law apologists were as common as lice when the Third Reich fell and the allies began assigning blame to shame.

_________________________
Wishing You Were Here!

The Aftermath Video

The Water Buffalo Song

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#385867 - 02/15/12 08:00 AM Re: Freaking Flag at half mast in PA.... [Re: Still]
catfish86 Offline
Member
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Registered: 10/27/09
Posts: 820
Loc: Ohio
Robbie,

You got that right. In the Army, when a major injury occurs because of a questionable incident, the commander is fired and THEN an investigation is started. Paterno gets no sympathy from me. I think to my abuse in PA and how the Sheriff and others chose not to notice. Outside of PSU land, everybody gets it. And now the judge is insisting on a jury from State College and we see from this thread how that will turn out.

_________________________
God grant me
The Serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The Courage to change the things I can,
And the Wisdom to know the difference.

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#385870 - 02/15/12 08:23 AM Re: Freaking Flag at half mast in PA.... [Re: catfish86]
LN3(SS) Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/20/08
Posts: 486
Loc: MD
Originally Posted By: Robbie Brown
If I were the Captain of a vessel and one of my crew were smuggling-in a brick of cocaine, I be held criminally liable under the common-law cannon that I am responsible and accountable for all that happens on my vessel.
No you wouldn't. Go read Navy Times about all the drug problems the Naval Academy has had. The Supe and/or the Com haven't been thrown out on their asses because of it. There have been a bunch of ships that have had drug problems. The offender gets a BCD and the CO goes on. It's only when the problem gets too big to ignore that something happens to the Captain. Things have changed since the common-law doctrines.

Originally Posted By: Robbie Brown
A competent Captain would purge this ship. A healthy-minded Captain would say I am not going to preside over debauchery.
To continue the naval analogy what you are describing does not happen. Traumas occur on ships on a regular basis without accountability. There were roughly 19,000 of them on average across the military during FY 2010. Several captains received end of tour awards and promotions to admiral, mine included, after their command tours. If it is happening in the military with "professional" officers why should State College be any different?

Originally Posted By: Robbie Brown
Again; Letter-of-the-law apologists were as common as lice when the Third Reich fell and the allies began assigning blame to shame.
The differences between America and the Third Reich are staggering. Our political processes have not been corrupted by a single party. Our Constitution is not suspended. We certainly are not engaged in genocide or eugenics programs. That comparison is not accurate. Pennsylvania made a law about how to report child abuse inside the political process. Paterno followed it.

Originally Posted By: catfish86
And now the judge is insisting on a jury from State College and we see from this thread how that will turn out.
Not necessarily. I will gladly defend Joe Paterno until I am blue in the face. I have no sympathy for Jerry Sandusky. I doubt a lot of people will have too much sympathy for Sandusky either. He will probably go to prison for a good long time.

Brian

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#385872 - 02/15/12 09:25 AM Re: Freaking Flag at half mast in PA.... [Re: LN3(SS)]
AndyJB2005 Offline
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Loc: Saint Paul, Minnesota
Man, the guy is dead. When do we move on with life? Seriously.

People act like this should be a perfect world where everyone does the exactly perfect and moral thing. Well, I hate to break it to some but it's not that kind of world. Seriously, when does that ever happen?

Do I think maybe he could've done more? Yes, but this isn't a perfect world, and at least he told *someone* in *some* fashion. There are many abuse victims here and everywhere who will never have anyone come forward for them -- and no one LITERALLY gives a crap that they were abused (like me for one).

Why not harp on those cases instead of beating a dead horse for, what, 5 months now? I hear more dang vitriol about Paterno than I do for Sandusky, who actually did the raping. How does that makes sense??

Maybe we should ask ourselves who we're really wanting punished? Who are we really this upset at in OUR lives? Maybe we shouldn't live vicariously through the Paterno case about our abuse.

I'm sorry for venting, but if I read another thing about Paterno I think my eyes will bleed. >.< Hugs to my MS family. I mean it. smile


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#385889 - 02/15/12 11:10 AM Re: Freaking Flag at half mast in PA.... [Re: AndyJB2005]
Still Offline
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Its not so much an examination of J. Inferno (don't want Andy's eyes to bleed - LOL)as it is an illustrative example of a human's duty to defend those in need of defense. Its a look at fundamental right and wrong.

Reading what Brian has to say about the state of the US Navy sickens me. My feeble mind interprets it into "right" decaying in oblivion and "wrongs" being embraced and accepted. This is a slippery slope for our society. If leaders are not going to enforce basic rules of order, we are cooked.

As for a ship of druggies; The Def Dept is allowing that as it does not take a lot of anything to slam every one of those shirkers in a brig after testing positive for anything. Purge the entire bloody ship. Hell, even a California School figured that shit out.

We have AMPLE TV ads to Save The Kittens, and I can't get one benefactor to fund CSA ads the way Canadians do. This nation is turning up-side-down.



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#385925 - 02/15/12 03:39 PM Re: Freaking Flag at half mast in PA.... [Re: Still]
Fissy Tsickens Offline
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Registered: 09/23/08
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Loc: Bassett, Virginia
Sorry, Bri. I will not weep for Paterno. As a teacher, I had to report suspected abuse of one of my students. As soon as I told the administrator, LEGALLY, I had covered my ass. The difference between Paterno and me is I actually gave a shit for a childs safety and wellbeing. I hounded that administrator until I was sure it had been reported to CPS. Then I continued to hound her until I was assured that CPS had investigated the situation and come to some conclusion. I was a total pain in the ass to my boss. But not as much of a PAIN IN THE ASS as Sandusky was to those boys he raped, with Paterno's uncaring knowledge.

Peace,

John

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Find a way to lie
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#385935 - 02/15/12 07:29 PM Re: Freaking Flag at half mast in PA.... [Re: Fissy Tsickens]
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ANYONE (ANYONE...DUH....) who knows their arse from their elbow KNOWS (HE SAID "KNOWS"), that government employees rarely do sheite at all if not in an untimely manner. I've worked around state and fed slack-jawed fk-tards for 20 Earth years. I've not met ONE (not 1) who does shit effectively or in a timely manner.

You want to leave a little boy (or platoon of po-boys from Philly) to the lacking wit and wisdom of a seven-figure/year hack like Inferno?

Heck...this government can't even run a Naval Vessel without wide-spread drug problems. YEAH BABY!!!!! Let's trust a government hack to save the raped boy!!!!! YEAH!!!!!

God save us all. I'm gonna puke!!!

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#385995 - 02/16/12 08:10 AM Re: Freaking Flag at half mast in PA.... [Re: Still]
catfish86 Offline
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Registered: 10/27/09
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Loc: Ohio
In reality, Paterno continues to be attacked because he continues to be defended. Paterno is as guilty of a culture of the blind eye as any Catholic Bishop. The list of those that knew something and really did nothing is long and pervades Pedophile State University from the janitor to the president and includes the local law enforcement, prosecutors and judges. Paterno's crime is becoming aware and allowing nothing to be done.

True story that I know about Paterno that was a good deed but shows how the picture of a bewildered, naive saint is just not so. I went to a high school of national football reputation. Joe Paterno among others frequently made recruiting visits. Paterno was in with the HS coach in his office which is across the high school from the entrance and down a long basement hallway. The coach got a call from the office that a small college coach had just arrived and was headed down. The HS coach asked Paterno for a favor, if he could put in a good word for this kid who was a good player and person but not a top notch recruit. Paterno said sure and they continued to talk. They heard the door open at the end of the hall and Paterno got up in mid-sentence and stormed out yelling about not being able to meet with this kid. The small college coach asked who the kid was and the kid ended up with a full ride and a solid small college career.

That shows the good side but it also belies the fact that Paterno was fully capable of making sure something happened had he been of a mind to do so.

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The Courage to change the things I can,
And the Wisdom to know the difference.

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#386187 - 02/17/12 04:57 PM Re: Freaking Flag at half mast in PA.... [Re: catfish86]
Canuck Offline


Registered: 05/26/10
Posts: 56
Loc: CA, United States
I'm not so very impressed with the generally unsophisticated understanding on this board of why a CSA victim would be so virulently angry with "people" who fail to stop child molesters.


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#386209 - 02/17/12 10:30 PM Re: Freaking Flag at half mast in PA.... [Re: Canuck]
Still Offline
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Registered: 02/16/07
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Loc: 2.5 NATO Nations
Originally Posted By: Canuck
I'm not so very impressed with the generally unsophisticated understanding on this board of why a CSA victim would be so virulently angry with "people" who fail to stop child molesters.


Its called a complete lack of character and spine at best....or, its coddling a baby-rape enabler. Its pretty darn binary. Can't be anything but one or the other.

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#388150 - 03/03/12 07:56 AM Re: Freaking Flag at half mast in PA.... [Re: Still]
catfish86 Offline
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Registered: 10/27/09
Posts: 820
Loc: Ohio
Saw an article on the New Orleans Saints facing disciplinary action for violating the bounty rule. The defensive coordinator orchestrated a pool of money that paid out for defensive hits that resulted in injury to players, sometimes even specific players.

This quote regarded the culpability of the head coach and illustrates what Paterno's sins are:

""Although head coach Sean Payton was not a direct participant in the funding or administration of the program, he was aware of the allegations, did not make any detailed inquiry or otherwise seek to learn the facts, and failed to stop the bounty program. He never instructed his assistant coaches or players that a bounty program was improper and could not continue," the NFL said."

For reference if you are curious:
Saints violated NFL bounty rule

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The Courage to change the things I can,
And the Wisdom to know the difference.

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