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#384865 - 02/08/12 08:05 AM Re: How men are assumed to be a danger to children... [Re: phoenix321]
JustScott Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 2582
Quote:
33% of male CSA survivors do offend.


Where did you get that statistic from? I've actually never heard such a high number and the reports and such that I've read in the past weren't that high either.


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#384875 - 02/08/12 09:46 AM Re: How men are assumed to be a danger to children... [Re: phoenix321]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6501
Loc: Terminus
OK,

I've read the Jim Hopper, PhD abstract and excerpt. Keep in mind, this is NOT the entire research project. I cannot seem to find the entire article and I cannot verify if this is even a peer-reviewed work, submitted to a peer-reviewed publication and then duly published.

I CAN however make very solid and scientifically-sound assertions based upon what we read in the link. That is, baring necessary and requisite information, we can actually dismiss the contents of the entire "excerpt and abstract."

1) No stated de>
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#384880 - 02/08/12 10:16 AM Re: How men are assumed to be a danger to children... [Re: JustScott]
phoenix321 Offline


Registered: 09/26/11
Posts: 912
Loc: USA, FL
Originally Posted By: JustScott
Quote:
33% of male CSA survivors do offend.


Where did you get that statistic from? I've actually never heard such a high number and the reports and such that I've read in the past weren't that high either.


Several places over the years. It could be wrong. What have you read?

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Phoenix

A guy opens the front door and sees a snail on his doorstep. He picks up the snail and throws it across the street in a neighbor's yard. A year later, the guy opens the front door and the same snail is on his doorstep. The snail says, "What the f*ck was that about?"

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#384882 - 02/08/12 10:23 AM Re: How men are assumed to be a danger to children... [Re: phoenix321]
Still Offline
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Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6501
Loc: Terminus
That 33% is the number thrown-about by the popular media (e.g.: Law and Order SVU, NYTimes...). Its a popular figure that seems to go hand-in-hand with the street-myths. We need some scholarly professional to tell us some sound truths, cuz this is some serious *bleep* we are dealing with here.

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When the phone don't ring, I'll know its you.

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#384887 - 02/08/12 10:45 AM Re: How men are assumed to be a danger to children... [Re: Still]
traveler Offline
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Registered: 02/07/06
Posts: 3449
Loc: somewhere in Africa
AMEN, brother! Preach it!!!!!

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Something deep inside...
I've been searchin so long to find an answer
Now I know my life has meaning
Now I see myself as I am, feeling very free...
When my tears have come to an end I will understand
What I left behind: a part of me. Chicago


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#384921 - 02/08/12 01:52 PM Re: How men are assumed to be a danger to children... [Re: phoenix321]
Shawushka Offline


Registered: 01/05/11
Posts: 128
Loc: VA
Originally Posted By: phoenix321
Let me play Devil's Advocate:

So, what if 6000 times more likely is true?
33% of male CSA survivors do offend. That's a lot of offending.


{phoenix, forgive me the 'cherry picking' when I quote this excerpts from your post}

Let's say these number would be true, shouldn't that alarm everyone that survivors need more help, better access to therapy, more support?

What if we offer help to sex offenders instead of listing them in sex offender registry that can be accessed by the public, that ostracizes them, keeps them from getting a job, etc.?
What if every convicted sex offender in prison would have access to qualified therapists/therapy?

It'd be interested to find out how many victims become perpetrators BECAUSE they never had access to therapy.


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#384930 - 02/08/12 02:42 PM Re: How men are assumed to be a danger to children... [Re: Shawushka]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6501
Loc: Terminus
Originally Posted By: Shawushka

It'd be interested to find out how many victims become perpetrators BECAUSE they never had access to therapy.


Yeah...let's find out for that reason and:

-Divorce
-Spousal Relations
-Judges misunderstanding
-Therapists mis-informing us
-Child safety
-Societal regard for us
-Our own self-perceptions

THIS is a rather mega-issue for non-offending survivors. I would normally say "I don't give a rat's ass about imprisoned perps." But if 33% is true...Now i DO have to give a rat's ass.

Everything I've been telling people, living and relying-upon is in doubt till someone clears-up that number!

_________________________
When the phone don't ring, I'll know its you.

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#384931 - 02/08/12 03:00 PM Re: How men are assumed to be a danger to children... [Re: Still]
JustScott Offline
Greeter Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 2582
I'll do what I can to find the various articles etc that I read quite some time back that had a much lower number.

I've seen a misconception many times that says since X% offenders abuse then X% of abused will abuse as well... it's not the same thing and not the same number.

When I get some time I'll do some digging, hope I can find them.


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#384958 - 02/08/12 07:09 PM Re: How men are assumed to be a danger to children... [Re: JustScott]
LandOfShadow Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 684
Loc: Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
Ok, I requested a copy of "Factors in the cycle of violence: Gender rigidity and emotional constriction." from my library which I'll have in a few days probably.

Phoenix, I think we all want to protect children and create a safer environment and world for all of us. It's just,... do you think this is the best way to do that? If you believe the 1 in 6 figure, ... stigmatize 16% of men? And, you said women, so include them? About 25% of women? Bar them all from being teachers, involvement in youth organizations, day care work, etc. ? Of course, I agree, if you're saying, it's not best, but our professional community isn't saying anything about it. Or parents just do their best with little or no guidance. I actually think this fearful environment that creates leaves children LESS safe because everyone's afraid of some punitive authoritative action. Look at the complete firing of all the staff at that Los Angeles Elementary school...

I have to think CSA survivors who've had therapy and recovery work would be a very different risk factor as well. So, yes, I think it speaks to how the tremendous lack of resources isn't making the world safer for kids.

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#384971 - 02/08/12 08:28 PM Re: How men are assumed to be a danger to children... [Re: JustScott]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6501
Loc: Terminus
Originally Posted By: JustScott

I've seen a misconception many times that says since X% offenders abuse then X% of abused will abuse as well... it's not the same thing and not the same number.


Sort of like: 100% of all cancer victims consumed milk throughout their childhood. Thus, 100% of all milk drinkers will get cancer.

Some researchers, (especially in politics) will pull such a sht-head move. Many many people are just stupid enough to fal for it and sometimes the stats-abusers believe the crap too.

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