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#383051 - 01/21/12 09:11 PM Joe Paterno dead--CBS sports says
GoodHope Offline
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Registered: 07/05/11
Posts: 413
_________________________
Wife of a survivor

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#383065 - 01/21/12 11:29 PM Re: Joe Paterno dead--CBS sports says [Re: GoodHope]
MrEdd Offline
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Registered: 01/24/03
Posts: 317
Loc: Texas
RIH

_________________________
Some Things are not problems to be solved, rather, they are facts which must be coped with over time.

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#383069 - 01/22/12 12:09 AM Re: Joe Paterno dead--CBS sports says [Re: MrEdd]
GoodHope Offline
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Registered: 07/05/11
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not dead yet either...AP and other sources are reporting that he has not passed away yet.

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#383074 - 01/22/12 12:31 AM Re: Joe Paterno dead--CBS sports says [Re: GoodHope]
phoenix321 Offline


Registered: 09/26/11
Posts: 912
Loc: USA, FL
RIH

_________________________
Phoenix

A guy opens the front door and sees a snail on his doorstep. He picks up the snail and throws it across the street in a neighbor's yard. A year later, the guy opens the front door and the same snail is on his doorstep. The snail says, "What the f*ck was that about?"

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#383090 - 01/22/12 11:04 AM Re: Joe Paterno dead--CBS sports says [Re: phoenix321]
LN3(SS) Offline
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Registered: 06/20/08
Posts: 486
Loc: MD
It is official apparently:

http://www.cnn.com/2012/01/22/us/pennsylvania-obit-paterno/?hpt=hp_t1

It is the end of an era. I firmly believe this man died of a broken heart regardless of the "official" cause.

JoePa did exactly what the law required of him and Penn State canned him. I hope the family takes PSU to the cleaners.

RIP JoePa.

Brian

_________________________
"When we go into battle, I will be the first to set foot on the field, and I will be the last to step off, and I will leave no one behind. Dead, or alive, we will all come home together." LTG Hal Moore, Jr., USA (Ret.)

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#383091 - 01/22/12 11:23 AM Re: Joe Paterno dead--CBS sports says [Re: LN3(SS)]
KMCINVA Offline
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I am sorry when anyone dies but I am glad he at least had to feel the pain and shame of his failure to do his moral duty to protect the children. Just think of the pain those children have suffered all their lives--even if saved one child with following through that would be once less wounded and harmed child in this world.


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#383096 - 01/22/12 11:50 AM Re: Joe Paterno dead--CBS sports says [Re: KMCINVA]
LN3(SS) Offline
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Registered: 06/20/08
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The point is not "moral duty". "Moral duty" can be argued until we're blue in the face. What matters to me as a survivor is that he executed his legal duty to those children. If we want to be enraged at anyone let's be enraged at the PA state legislators that put such a ridiculous standard in the law. I am truly sorry his death was as painful as it was. He did not deserve it.

In this moment I choose to remember the legacy he built. For himself, the Nittany Lions, and Happy Valley in general.

Brian

_________________________
"When we go into battle, I will be the first to set foot on the field, and I will be the last to step off, and I will leave no one behind. Dead, or alive, we will all come home together." LTG Hal Moore, Jr., USA (Ret.)

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#383097 - 01/22/12 12:02 PM Re: Joe Paterno dead--CBS sports says [Re: LN3(SS)]
KMCINVA Offline
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I think we will have to agree to disagree--as a survivor I believe moral duty trumps legal duty when we are talking a human life. This is my opinion.


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#383105 - 01/22/12 01:22 PM Re: Joe Paterno dead--CBS sports says [Re: KMCINVA]
catfish86 Offline
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Registered: 10/27/09
Posts: 820
Loc: Ohio
I am with KMCINVA. I am saddened to see him pass. His firing was deserved however. He had an earned reputation as a diligent, relentless micromanager. Nothing involved in the program escaped his attention. If he died from a broken heart it was that his inaction when a child needed help tainted 60 some years of otherwise diligent work. His 409 wins will always have an asterisk.

_________________________
God grant me
The Serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The Courage to change the things I can,
And the Wisdom to know the difference.

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#383107 - 01/22/12 01:46 PM Re: Joe Paterno dead--CBS sports says [Re: catfish86]
Rusty563 Offline
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Registered: 02/26/11
Posts: 200
Loc: Anywhere, USA
He's dead. I'm glad. I hope he rots in hell. My only regret is that he'll never face a judge or jury or pay any price for his sins here on this earth before he left for eternity.

For me, he's one less trigger.

Rusty

_________________________
There is no greater agony than bearing an untold story inside you - Maya Angelous
Freedom is never voluntarily given by the oppressor; it must be demanded by the oppressed - Martin Luther King
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qF_qbaWt3Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDOkMSf-F14

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#383133 - 01/22/12 06:02 PM Re: Joe Paterno dead--CBS sports says [Re: Rusty563]
GoodHope Offline
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I try to ask myself in every questionable situation--what would I want for myself of for my loved one. That is the standard. And I'd want someone to follow up if they heard about my child being raped. So yeah, lots of things are legal, but they aren't ethical or moral, and that is the standard I want to be judged by.

_________________________
Wife of a survivor

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#383134 - 01/22/12 06:03 PM Re: Joe Paterno dead--CBS sports says [Re: GoodHope]
GoodHope Offline
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I'm not "glad" he's dead and I don't want him to rot in hell either. I hope I never forget this and I hope other people remember this when they are are in an uncomfortable spot--think of the person in the equation with the least amount of power--and children never have power. That's the side you want to look out for, even if your friend is the powerful one.

_________________________
Wife of a survivor

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#383138 - 01/22/12 06:22 PM Re: Joe Paterno dead--CBS sports says [Re: GoodHope]
Still Offline
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I can't wait to see the little self-entitled shits at Penn Snake take to the streets this time. RIH

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#383152 - 01/22/12 07:37 PM Re: Joe Paterno dead--CBS sports says [Re: Still]
KMCINVA Offline
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Registered: 08/31/11
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I hope Paterno made some provisions in his will to help those that suffered from his silence. And we know he was not a silent man on the field or on the media.


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#383164 - 01/22/12 08:58 PM Re: Joe Paterno dead--CBS sports says [Re: KMCINVA]
catfish86 Offline
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Registered: 10/27/09
Posts: 820
Loc: Ohio
His legacy will be tainted. That may well be why such a strong man succumbed to a lung cancer that was initially characterized as "very treatable". Recruits were backing out of commitments like rats jumping from a burning ship. NCAA investigation is likely to result in severe penalties. Look at what happened to Ohio State over tatoos and cell phones. It all falls under "institutional control" and I can't fathom a more severe example of failure in this area in 1998, 2002 and whenever the janitors witnessed abuse to mention just what comes to mind. His lack of action may have put PSU back in league with Northwestern or lower which is where it was before JoePa came on board.

_________________________
God grant me
The Serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The Courage to change the things I can,
And the Wisdom to know the difference.

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#383167 - 01/22/12 09:33 PM Re: Joe Paterno dead--CBS sports says [Re: LN3(SS)]
phoenix321 Offline


Registered: 09/26/11
Posts: 912
Loc: USA, FL


It's what people do for the least of society that makes a person great not what they do for some fucking football program. I am literally sick of all these sports losers getting a pass on everything that goes on under their noses because it might affect the "game."

Paterno waited till after the weekend to report it because he didn't want to "mess up anyone's weekend."

Paterno himself claimed he was so f--king morally superior then didn't do what was right. Sounds so like the Catholic church Bishops who looked the other way and couldn't find the moral courage to call the cops.

The pic where a 70s grad of PSU burned his sheepskin in front of the PSU campus was exactly the right thing to do.

McQweary didn't do anything cause he was probably scared too. That says a helluva lot about how powerful the PSU bunch was. They played God. Now, they should face the righteous indignation of prosecution.

RIH Joe Paterno. And, tear down that damn statue of his!

I'll shed not one damn tear!

Now, I wish Sandusky lots of gangrapes in prison. I hope he lives to 84 so he gets to suffer as much as those kids.

_________________________
Phoenix

A guy opens the front door and sees a snail on his doorstep. He picks up the snail and throws it across the street in a neighbor's yard. A year later, the guy opens the front door and the same snail is on his doorstep. The snail says, "What the f*ck was that about?"

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#383179 - 01/22/12 11:11 PM Re: Joe Paterno dead--CBS sports says [Re: phoenix321]
LN3(SS) Offline
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Registered: 06/20/08
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Loc: MD
I think that until we get the country focused on simply following the law regarding reporting abuse we should forget about trying to hold people to some kind of higher "moral duty".

Joe Paterno didn't get a pass because of how it might affect the game. He got the pass because what he did was legally right. He reported the crime to the chief law-enforcement officer of PSU.

After his memorial service I hope the students take to the streets and protest what happened. I hope the PSU Board of Trustees are voted out for throwing a great man under the bus for doing the things they failed to do.

More imporantly I hope there is a good turnout at his memorial service. I hope that memorial service is filled with people that respect the man for all the things he did. I hope that when he reports to his Creator he hears "well done, good and faithful servant". A man of his moral character will be missed.

Brian

_________________________
"When we go into battle, I will be the first to set foot on the field, and I will be the last to step off, and I will leave no one behind. Dead, or alive, we will all come home together." LTG Hal Moore, Jr., USA (Ret.)

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#383182 - 01/22/12 11:29 PM Re: Joe Paterno dead--CBS sports says [Re: LN3(SS)]
Still Offline
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Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6356
Loc: 2 NATO Nations
Originally Posted By: LN3(SS)

After his memorial service I hope the students take to the streets and protest what happened. I hope the PSU Board of Trustees are voted out for throwing a great man under the bus for doing the things they failed to do.

More imporantly I hope there is a good turnout at his memorial service. I hope that memorial service is filled with people that respect the man for all the things he did. I hope that when he reports to his Creator he hears "well done, good and faithful servant". A man of his moral character will be missed.

Brian


Huh? There's one element of CSA that you may wish to learn about; Its called "enablers." Enablers are individuals and parts or all of institutions that cover-up, ignore or otherwise allow CSa to begin and continue. In law, its called "conspiracy" or "dereliction of duty."

Don't know where you got yer info Brian, but paterno and many others knew this was a dangerous environment for a very long time and did nothing. The board of directors, the "Capain of the vessel" is responsible for everything that goes on under his command. its a very pure, old and simple concept of right and wrong. The locus of responsibility relates fully to the command and authority that creates an entity's culture of corruption or soundness. Paterno, IMO, was given an exit worthy of his ever-lasting heritage and deeds.

BTW: Maybe you missed my Mentor's inside view of Penn Snake, as he was a Grad Asst Coach there:

Dear Fellow Survivors:

The attached is written for you, to encourage and to support you as you heal and become whole. Life does get better. Coping mechanisms established when we're kids are often ineffective, yet can be relearned when we're adults, leading us survivors to choose happy and fulfilling lives; to gain control of our destinies.

http://mattpaknis.blogspot.com/2011/11/absolute-power-corrupts-absolutely.html

The Penn State scandal collided two of my worlds. I was a graduate assistant offensive line football coach at Penn State following their 1986 National Championship when Joe Paterno was Sport Illustrated's reigning Sportsman of the Year.

I am also a survivor of early childhood sexual abuse.

Sexual abuse survivors do have a high rate of recovery from trauma when we get the proper treatment.

Patience and persistence equals progress!

I hope you find the blog helpful and encourage you to stay the course.

Your comments and insights are welcomed.

If you need direction, please let me know.

You can do it!

Peace,
Matt
Matt Paknis Leadership Development

visit my website at: www.mattpaknis.com
blog me at: http://mattpaknis.blogspot.com/


_________________________
Jesus Loves The Hell Outta Me!

Still's Globs

New Video

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#383196 - 01/23/12 02:05 AM Re: Joe Paterno dead--CBS sports says [Re: Still]
onlyakid Offline
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Registered: 03/31/04
Posts: 1552
Loc: New Jersey
"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing." Edmund Burke (18th century philosopher)

While yes JoePa did what was legally required of him and the Pennsylvania legislators are to blame for the lax requirements of the law, I'm sure that if this happened to his grandson he would have contacted the police but instead he decided that the legacy of the football program was more important. Actually, covering up the incident did more damage to the program than probably would have if the Sundusky scandal had come out then. Just like the Catholic Church, having molestors as priests wouldnt have tarnished the reputation of the church had they just dealt with it appropriately. But they decieded to cover it up which allowed it to continue and thats why alot of people have bad feelings towards them.

Also if we are talking about what is legally required, his contract likely had a morals clause and Penn State was legally allowed to fire him.

_________________________
"Being with people that understand you...Priceless"

"and i don't want the world to see me, cause i don't think that they'd understand"

"You don't know what love is...you just do as your told"

"My life has changed. What you take as a simple thing, is not so simple for me anymore"


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#383213 - 01/23/12 08:31 AM Re: Joe Paterno dead--CBS sports says [Re: onlyakid]
KMCINVA Offline
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Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 1540
I heard the news this morning and I was disgusted--people saying the Board of Trustees killed him by firing him and they did not let him die in peace. Well how about the victims who came after he was aware of the rape in the shower and have never known peace in their lives? Sadly, he died but at least he had to face his lack of moral judgment as to his knowledge of the attack.


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#383222 - 01/23/12 09:56 AM Re: Joe Paterno dead--CBS sports says [Re: KMCINVA]
ren42 Offline


Registered: 03/26/11
Posts: 54
.


Edited by ren42 (12/29/12 06:39 AM)

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#383223 - 01/23/12 09:58 AM Re: Joe Paterno dead--CBS sports says [Re: KMCINVA]
Castle Offline


Registered: 10/03/09
Posts: 723
Loc: NJ
"Joe Patererno Dies in Hospital; Doctors Promise To Tell Their Superiors First Thing, Tomorrow"

_________________________

My posts can self destruct at any time..read them while you can.

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#383224 - 01/23/12 10:00 AM Re: Joe Paterno dead--CBS sports says [Re: Castle]
pluckmemory Offline


Registered: 03/27/08
Posts: 554
The William Ayres blog has a post up reacting to Paterno's death.

www.williamayreswatch.blogspot.com


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#383226 - 01/23/12 10:17 AM Re: Joe Paterno dead--CBS sports says [Re: pluckmemory]
AndyJB2005 Offline
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Registered: 11/14/06
Posts: 1242
Loc: Saint Paul, Minnesota
It's so odd to me that ever since this whole thing went down, I've heard more anger towards Paterno than towards Sandusky. I think we get so wrapped up in emotions that we forget who actually did the molesting and raping. I mean maybe Paterno could've done more to report, yes, but shouldn't we be more upset at who actually did the crime? Yet I hear nothing of him -- or very little.

To me, it's all one giant band wagon. This is why I stopped following the story on sites after a few days. I've even seen people allude to others not being "real survivors" if they don't feel the same rage at Paterno as everyone else. I mean, really? Drives me crazy.

_________________________
Life's disappointments are harder to take when you don't know any swear words. -- Calvin (Calvin and Hobbes)

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#383229 - 01/23/12 11:35 AM Re: Joe Paterno dead--CBS sports says [Re: AndyJB2005]
Canuck Offline


Registered: 05/26/10
Posts: 56
Loc: CA, United States
Go read this article too, it's VERY well written:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/01/22/1057341/-F**k-Joe-Paterno-(Updated)


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#383230 - 01/23/12 11:49 AM Re: Joe Paterno dead--CBS sports says [Re: Canuck]
Still Offline
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Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6356
Loc: 2 NATO Nations
Well, there are courts throughout the country have and are weighing the criminal culpability and responsibility of catholic leadership for institutional cover-up and enabling.

Everything that goes on under someones command lands on the commanders lap. Just like everyone blamed Ronald Reagan for CIA arms dealing that he knew nothing about.

If you look at naval law and tradition throughout time, the commander is always responsible and accountable. Nothing went on in the house of Penn with Joe knowing it and commanding the outcome.

Sandusky will get his days in court. Paterno never will see an earth-bound court. Its only natural for survivors to waive bu-bye to an enabler and conspirator on his way to the big BBQ in the ground.

_________________________
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#383235 - 01/23/12 01:38 PM Re: Joe Paterno dead--CBS sports says [Re: KMCINVA]
Rusty563 Offline
Member
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Registered: 02/26/11
Posts: 200
Loc: Anywhere, USA
"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing." Edmund Burke (18th century philosopher)(Hear, hear!)

Paterno did nothing. He looked the other way. Guilt killed him. Glad he's gone. Rot in hell. One down, more to go.

Don't judge me for my feelings and perspective of his life and death. The mere mention of his name and the broadcast of his face on TV has triggered me endlessly. So do "the others" especially the monster himself, so there's not a drop of compassion or sympathy running through my veins only contempt and hatred, I've saved my compassion and sympathy for the victims who've come forward or hide in the dark.
I save my heart for them.

Rusty

_________________________
There is no greater agony than bearing an untold story inside you - Maya Angelous
Freedom is never voluntarily given by the oppressor; it must be demanded by the oppressed - Martin Luther King
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qF_qbaWt3Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDOkMSf-F14

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#383238 - 01/23/12 03:39 PM Legal Duty v. Moral Duty [Re: LN3(SS)]
Disappointed Offline


Registered: 08/11/09
Posts: 540
Loc: U.S.A.
"If we want to be enraged at anyone let's be enraged at the Pennsylvania state legislators that put such a ridiculous standard in the law."

--LN3

We only have legislatures to protect our liberties. If each of us would do the right thing,there would be no need for legislatures. I don't rely upon a legislature to tell me to do the right thing. If you need a legislature to tell you not to drive your own car into your own tree, then the legislature will never be able to draft enough laws to suit you.



Edited by Disappointed (01/23/12 03:40 PM)
_________________________
Female.

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#383245 - 01/23/12 05:04 PM Re: Joe Paterno dead--CBS sports says [Re: Castle]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6356
Loc: 2 NATO Nations
Originally Posted By: Castle
"Joe Patererno Dies in Hospital; Doctors Promise To Tell Their Superiors First Thing, Tomorrow"



That is so nice of them!

_________________________
Jesus Loves The Hell Outta Me!

Still's Globs

New Video

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#383246 - 01/23/12 05:08 PM Re: Joe Paterno dead--CBS sports says [Re: pluckmemory]
Still Offline
Member
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Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6356
Loc: 2 NATO Nations
Originally Posted By: pluckmemory
The William Ayres blog has a post up reacting to Paterno's death.

www.williamayreswatch.blogspot.com


Ho Lee Crud!!!!!!

_________________________
Jesus Loves The Hell Outta Me!

Still's Globs

New Video

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#383253 - 01/23/12 05:38 PM Re: Joe Paterno dead--CBS sports says [Re: Castle]
phoenix321 Offline


Registered: 09/26/11
Posts: 912
Loc: USA, FL
Originally Posted By: Castle
"Joe Patererno Dies in Hospital; Doctors Promise To Tell Their Superiors First Thing, Tomorrow"


LMAO!!

When I saw "moral" Joe Paterno got cancer I said, "Ask me in 8 years if I give a shit." haha!

_________________________
Phoenix

A guy opens the front door and sees a snail on his doorstep. He picks up the snail and throws it across the street in a neighbor's yard. A year later, the guy opens the front door and the same snail is on his doorstep. The snail says, "What the f*ck was that about?"

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#383256 - 01/23/12 05:57 PM Re: Joe Paterno dead--CBS sports says [Re: AndyJB2005]
LandOfShadow Offline
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Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 684
Loc: Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
I've thought that frequently, and yet, it's because he's a symbol of institutional trust, that failed. I suppose perhaps people accept the Sandusky's in our midst somehow more easily than the failure of society to remotely function.


Originally Posted By: AndyJB2005
It's so odd to me that ever since this whole thing went down, I've heard more anger towards Paterno than towards Sandusky. I think we get so wrapped up in emotions that we forget who actually did the molesting and raping. I mean maybe Paterno could've done more to report, yes, but shouldn't we be more upset at who actually did the crime? Yet I hear nothing of him -- or very little.

To me, it's all one giant band wagon. This is why I stopped following the story on sites after a few days. I've even seen people allude to others not being "real survivors" if they don't feel the same rage at Paterno as everyone else. I mean, really? Drives me crazy.


_________________________
Et par le pouvoir d’un mot Je recommence ma vie, Je suis né pour te connaître, Pour te nommer
Liberté

And by the power of a single word I can begin my life again, I was born to know you, to name you
Freedom

Paul Eluard

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#383258 - 01/23/12 06:11 PM Re: Joe Paterno dead--CBS sports says [Re: LandOfShadow]
JustScott Offline
Greeter Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 2572
Sports Brings out so much emotion.

Truth is, in America (and many other places in this world) sports are worshiped and their heros are their chosen gods. Nothing, and I mean nothing, not even horribly victimized and abused innocent children are more important than sports and sports gods to the followers of said religion.


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#383260 - 01/23/12 06:14 PM Re: Joe Paterno dead--CBS sports says [Re: LandOfShadow]
Disappointed Offline


Registered: 08/11/09
Posts: 540
Loc: U.S.A.
I disagree. We know evil men do evil, but Paterno's claim to fame was being a good coach and emphasizing his players were good students as well as players. We find out that his assistant coach apparently didn't learn how to be a good citizen from coach Paterno, because when he saw this activity, he didn't intervene to take the child away from the abuser. We still don't know who the child is.

Then, Paterno showed no curiosity as to what had happened about the charges which at the very least, included Sandusky doing something inappropriate with a CHILD in the locker room. Any towering figure over a college such as Paterno would know if an investigation or prosecution of Sandusky was or was not happening. Yet, Paterno had no curiosity as to why nothing was happening to Sandusky. Years later, Sandusky is still walking around on campus. I mean gosh, talk about being blind.

So, yeah, we expect a monster to be a monster, and we expect a man who claims he teaches his players to be good men and members of the community, to be a good man and member of his community in things more important than a game. Plus, we expect Paterno, McCurley and the rest, to do something to prevent even MORE boys from being abused by Sandusky. They didn't.

Fortunately, the more this is out there, the more quickly the next man who becomes aware of abuse will report it. Otherwise, he might find himself out of a job.

_________________________
Female.

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#383278 - 01/23/12 08:55 PM Re: Joe Paterno dead--CBS sports says [Re: Still]
Canuck Offline


Registered: 05/26/10
Posts: 56
Loc: CA, United States
Originally Posted By: Robbie Brown
Originally Posted By: pluckmemory
The William Ayres blog has a post up reacting to Paterno's death.

www.williamayreswatch.blogspot.com


Ho Lee Crud!!!!!!


Lol. What did I do?


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#383643 - 01/27/12 02:44 PM Re: Joe Paterno dead--CBS sports says [Re: Canuck]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6356
Loc: 2 NATO Nations
Originally Posted By: Canuck
Originally Posted By: Robbie Brown
Originally Posted By: pluckmemory
The William Ayres blog has a post up reacting to Paterno's death.

www.williamayreswatch.blogspot.com


Ho Lee Crud!!!!!!


Lol. What did I do?


You did nothing wrong.
There's just SO much pain wrapped-up on that site, I can't believe it.

_________________________
Jesus Loves The Hell Outta Me!

Still's Globs

New Video

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#383657 - 01/27/12 04:53 PM Re: Joe Paterno dead--CBS sports says [Re: Still]
Canuck Offline


Registered: 05/26/10
Posts: 56
Loc: CA, United States
Quote:

You did nothing wrong.
There's just SO much pain wrapped-up on that site, I can't believe it.


Yeah. Well, we got screwed by the shrink.
We got screwed by all the local shrinks who support him.
We got screwed by all the other local shrinks who did nothing even though they knew.
We got screwed by the judges.
We got screwed by the press.
We got screwed by the County.
We got screwed by the Prosecution.

We had people whining about our criticism of the shrinks who did nothing, just like people are whining about Paterno being criticized. I'm not impressed.

Meh.



Edited by Canuck (01/27/12 08:16 PM)

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