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#382982 - 01/20/12 09:12 PM Should I bother trying to friend this guy?
supergirl1980 Offline


Registered: 01/20/12
Posts: 12
Loc: Texas
I've been getting to know a guy (I'll call him Mark) the past few months through mutual friends/coworkers. I was attracted to Mark right away. He's handsome, intelligent, hilarious and very flirtatious. Then I discovered he's extremely moody and on probation for felony DUI (multiple arrests). So I don't want to be in a relationships with him but I still really like him as a friend. He's so fun to be around and he's never asked me out so we're just friends. However his moodiness, constant sexual comments and what I can only describe as being very selfish all turn me off. And from what I hear his looks and initial charm attract women for lots of one-night stands but his behavior pushes them away for anything more.

The other day I was saying how this behavior was getting on my nerves and I didn't know why he was such a trainwreck when he had so much going for him. His close friend told me in confidence that Mark had been molested by a relative as a child. I'm still in shock, but now Mark's behavior makes more sense, especially this rage that seems to be under the surface. I don't know if he's ever gotten any therapy outside of court-ordered rehab for the DUIs.

I can't get this out of my mind and I feel so sick. Next time I see him I just want to hug him. How can I be a friend to Mark or let him know I'm there for him without him thinking I want to jump in bed with him? I've had plenty of friends in the past with substance abuse problems so I have no fantasies of fixing Mark, but I do genuinely like him. It makes me sad to see someone in so much pain.

I'd appreciate any advice.


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#382984 - 01/20/12 09:25 PM Re: Should I bother trying to friend this guy? [Re: supergirl1980]
mcl1982 Offline


Registered: 01/09/12
Posts: 44
Loc: IL
I'd say stay clear. I've done some of the same things and things haven't worked out for me. I just lost the love of my life over my anger, moodiness and selfishness. I finally realized I needed help with my abuse. At least until he gets help.


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#382985 - 01/20/12 09:30 PM Re: Should I bother trying to friend this guy? [Re: supergirl1980]
phoenix321 Offline


Registered: 09/26/11
Posts: 912
Loc: USA, FL
Supergirl,

Hey, love the name. I got all her comics.

My mum would say, are you crazy? Truthfully that's what she'd say.

I'd say no to this guy since his a felon but that's me. Most people want nothing to do with a criminal and that's okay. I really don't either. Something minor, sure. Ex-druggie/alkie? I would. He's obviously major though. Maybe all he's into is one-night stands? Guys that have a history like that my momma would say, run away from.

Don't let beauty fool ya. The worst guys come with charm and beauty and more baggage than a hotel at checkout. How do you know his friend ain't his wingman saying what you want to hear so you'll feel sorry, etc.?

Selfish equals narcissism in my experience with guys.

I'm sorry about it all. You have a tough decision to make. IMHO, NO is all I could advise without knowing either of ya.



Edited by phoenix321 (01/20/12 09:33 PM)
Edit Reason: add
_________________________
Phoenix

A guy opens the front door and sees a snail on his doorstep. He picks up the snail and throws it across the street in a neighbor's yard. A year later, the guy opens the front door and the same snail is on his doorstep. The snail says, "What the f*ck was that about?"

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#382986 - 01/20/12 09:32 PM Re: Should I bother trying to friend this guy? [Re: mcl1982]
phoenix321 Offline


Registered: 09/26/11
Posts: 912
Loc: USA, FL
Originally Posted By: mcl1982
I'd say stay clear. I've done some of the same things and things haven't worked out for me. I just lost the love of my life over my anger, moodiness and selfishness. I finally realized I needed help with my abuse. At least until he gets help.


I'm sorry. You are so right.

_________________________
Phoenix

A guy opens the front door and sees a snail on his doorstep. He picks up the snail and throws it across the street in a neighbor's yard. A year later, the guy opens the front door and the same snail is on his doorstep. The snail says, "What the f*ck was that about?"

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#382987 - 01/20/12 09:36 PM Re: Should I bother trying to friend this guy? [Re: phoenix321]
mcl1982 Offline


Registered: 01/09/12
Posts: 44
Loc: IL
Originally Posted By: phoenix321
Originally Posted By: mcl1982
I'd say stay clear. I've done some of the same things and things haven't worked out for me. I just lost the love of my life over my anger, moodiness and selfishness. I finally realized I needed help with my abuse. At least until he gets help.


I'm sorry. You are so right.


It's true. Just looking at my life and all I've done.


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#382988 - 01/20/12 09:52 PM Re: Should I bother trying to friend this guy? [Re: mcl1982]
supergirl1980 Offline


Registered: 01/20/12
Posts: 12
Loc: Texas
mcl1982, thanks. Did you have any friends that supported you and encouraged you to get help?


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#382991 - 01/20/12 10:36 PM Re: Should I bother trying to friend this guy? [Re: supergirl1980]
mcl1982 Offline


Registered: 01/09/12
Posts: 44
Loc: IL
I made the decision on my own. It took losing the woman I was going to ask to marry me to realize it. frown I just told her all the details Monday, her parents Tuesday and my dad today. It's been an emotional week for me. She was talking to me and I got my hopes up and we watched a movie and had dinner last night, but she's still not over my anger and she told me today we couldn't see each other anymore or talk right now.

No one knew what was wrong when all this happened. It took a few weeks to finally tell her. I knew if I didn't get help and tell someone I would never heal.



Edited by mcl1982 (01/20/12 10:38 PM)

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#382994 - 01/20/12 11:20 PM Re: Should I bother trying to friend this guy? [Re: mcl1982]
supergirl1980 Offline


Registered: 01/20/12
Posts: 12
Loc: Texas
Good for you for getting help. I'm so sorry she's back off, but I hope she is there for you when you're ready. You deserve a wonderful woman.


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#382996 - 01/20/12 11:43 PM Re: Should I bother trying to friend this guy? [Re: supergirl1980]
herowannabe Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/01/11
Posts: 386
Loc: USA
Oh my.

Okay, I don't want to appear crass and negative, but I'm going to relate to you as if you were my daughter.

What a lovely, compassionate soul you are! You see the good in Mark, and in your healthy mind can see the great life/relationships he could have if he could... change...?

The not-so-hot qualities you've detailed can be characteristics of the ignored/filed away trauma of CSA. However, they are also charcteristics of an alcoholic, a sex addict and a sufferer of mood disorders: border personality, depression, bipolar, to name but a few.

I would caution you strongly in your desire to "help" him. I'm only reading text, not YOU, but your words scream: I'm a "codependent".

Codependents' switches are flipped by their perception of being needed, of being one who can help. Their desire to save another is stronger than common sense and is so overpowering that the realities of a situation are invisible.

As you consider Mark, please make no serious overtures until you read Melody Beattie's "Codependent No More". You need to at least be aware of your own vulnerbilities before you can SAFELY attempt to help another. To not understand yourself first will not only hurt you, but the one you wish to help.

YOU, first. Then, Mark. Maybe! In the meantime, the one safe thing you can do for him is to pray for him and to ask God to show you how you can, IF you can, help him.

I send this with a big smile! You are a nice person!
herowannabe

_________________________


For I know the plans I have made for you. Plans to give you a future and a hope. Jeremiah 29:11


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#382998 - 01/20/12 11:47 PM Re: Should I bother trying to friend this guy? [Re: phoenix321]
herowannabe Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/01/11
Posts: 386
Loc: USA
P.S. I posted before reading the comments already made. I'm obviously a female, so you may blow off my advice. That's okay, but please do listen to these survivors! They know of what they speak and guys know guys better than we girls EVER will. I wish you well, Supergirl!

_________________________


For I know the plans I have made for you. Plans to give you a future and a hope. Jeremiah 29:11


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#383000 - 01/21/12 12:00 AM Re: Should I bother trying to friend this guy? [Re: herowannabe]
supergirl1980 Offline


Registered: 01/20/12
Posts: 12
Loc: Texas
Thank you, herowannabe. I will remember "me first" when I am around him and won't let him manipulate me.

However, I don't think I'm really all that codependent since I definitely prefer dating men who have their acts together. I'm not out looking for people to fix.


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#383011 - 01/21/12 05:59 AM Re: Should I bother trying to friend this guy? [Re: supergirl1980]
Gretta Offline


Registered: 09/17/11
Posts: 239
Hi Supergirl

Be careful and just don't fool yourself. You do sound incredibly compassionate but between the lines I read that you care very much for him. This path is not for the faint of heart. You will certainly need your super girl powers.

A year or so ago I found that my h had been hiring prostitutes for the last couple years, he had a porn addiction that would make your mouth drop and he was starting to work on a mistress. I have three Children I was devastated. The infidelity was easier to deal with than the unfolding of his CSA, that started so young it would make your stomach turn. He went on to being abused by his father, grandfather and too many neighborhood boys to mention. We have spent the year getting my h to solid ground and he is a much different man than he was. We have aged more in the last year than we have in the last 7 yrs.

Dealing with it all has been very difficult. I love him. He is dedicated to his healing and has made incredible strides. He has done everything I have asked and that is huge because control is a very big issue with survivors. I consider myself lucky, but in the back of my heart and mind I don't know if I will ever feel safe. I will always be on guard which stinks.

This is not a club I would want to join (if I had a choice) but I have met some of the most exceptional women and I have been fortunate enough to have them help me through the hell my husband and I have been in. Good luck.Gretta


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#383046 - 01/21/12 07:43 PM Re: Should I bother trying to friend this guy? [Re: Gretta]
GoodHope Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/05/11
Posts: 417
There are a couple of things amiss in your original post--the most important is that you don't know if he is getting help for the CSA. If he isn't, there is no other answer than to run--run like you are on fire, because get too close and you very soon will be.

My other thoughts are this isn't a direction you want to go in if you aren't in it for the long haul, not for your sake, but for his. Trust is usually a huge issue for rape victims (and CSA falls in that category). It doesn't seem that you know him well enough to discern whether or not you would be around long-term and it could be detrimental for his recovery to get close to someone who says s/he wants to help him, and then find out it isn't for you and to pull away.

Read around on this board. This is NOT a months long process and bang, you are well. Its a years/decades long process with advances and retreats, battles won, battles lost.

You may feel good reaching out, being a shoulder and a help, but ultimately, every good deed should be about the person for whom it is done, so make sure that is your motive.

What you see in this man is very likely a carefully crafted facade. This can be the coping mechanism for survivors. My husband is charming, funny, smart, kind, confident, successful etc--On the outside. What lies beneath is turmoil that he tries/tried? to quell with all kinds of sexual acting out--dark, dangerous stuff. And maintaining such a facade requires a fair amount of deceit--lying is not uncommon among survivors. Not all survivors behave that way, but what you have seen of the guy is an indication of at the very least--promiscuity.

If I were you, I'd keep doing what you are doing--not seeking out, not retreating (I don't think ostracizing people for things beyond their control is ok at all). Maybe a deeper level of friendship will develop on its own and you will be privy to the missing information I mentioned in this post. You'll be miles ahead of me because I had no clue until years into my marriage when the damage to him, me and our family was well underway. You will know immediately where to go to be of most assistance - here -. I wish you well.

_________________________
Wife of a survivor

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#383186 - 01/23/12 12:28 AM Re: Should I bother trying to friend this guy? [Re: Gretta]
supergirl1980 Offline


Registered: 01/20/12
Posts: 12
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: Gretta
Hi Supergirl

Be careful and just don't fool yourself. You do sound incredibly compassionate but between the lines I read that you care very much for him.


You're right, I really do. Obviously I must or else I wouldn't have bothered to find this forum and ask for advice. I'm glad I did. I saw him today and I had to keep reminding myself "me first." I also thought about how you said that image he projects is a facade.

Thank you for the advice. I know I can't help him with his drinking, CSA, rage, etc but maybe a real friendship will develop and in some way that can help him.



Edited by supergirl1980 (01/23/12 12:29 AM)

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#383202 - 01/23/12 05:29 AM Re: Should I bother trying to friend this guy? [Re: supergirl1980]
phoenix321 Offline


Registered: 09/26/11
Posts: 912
Loc: USA, FL
Originally Posted By: supergirl1980
Originally Posted By: Gretta
Hi Supergirl

Be careful and just don't fool yourself. You do sound incredibly compassionate but between the lines I read that you care very much for him.


You're right, I really do. Obviously I must or else I wouldn't have bothered to find this forum and ask for advice. I'm glad I did. I saw him today and I had to keep reminding myself "me first." I also thought about how you said that image he projects is a facade.

Thank you for the advice. I know I can't help him with his drinking, CSA, rage, etc but maybe a real friendship will develop and in some way that can help him.


This is telling: "...maybe a real friendship will develop and in some way that can help him." So, you gonna go fix him? Do you wanna be his mommy? That's rough BUT both of those are co-dependent issues before you get started. Sorry but that's what your compassion is leading you to. It's only leading you to be a caretaker. Because he's pretty? It's nice you have all this compassion. You're wanting to be a girlfriend possibly not a nurse. And, that sentence you wrote is exactly what my mom did with my sperm donor and he ruined her. You have to look at the inside of a person not the fascade and the beauty that blinds you to the truth. Come on, everyone in this thread is said No to your original question and you've said he's a criminal and messed up. So, what's the point? You want to fix him deep down inside. That's as unhealthy as it gets. Like I said, my mom went and actually did that and ruined her life (and mine) over it. Perhaps you have some issues yourself if your willing to dive into the deep end with someone who looks like an angel on the outside and the devil on the inside. Most would run from the felon alone. Not you. Let me see if a "real" friendship (which he has no clue about) can help him. Supergirl saved people but she didn't go set up house with 'em. Bad boys aren't called bad boys because they are nice. Sounds like you have a history with bad boys. Kind of insanity to keep doing the same thing hoping for different results.

People who are codependent often take on the role as a martyr; they constantly put other's needs before their own and in doing so forget to take care of themselves. This creates a sense that they are "needed"; they cannot stand the thought of being alone and no one needing them. Codependent people are constantly in search of acceptance. When it comes to arguments, codependent people also tend to set themselves up as the "victim". When they do stand up for themselves, they feel guilty.



Edited by phoenix321 (01/23/12 05:39 AM)
_________________________
Phoenix

A guy opens the front door and sees a snail on his doorstep. He picks up the snail and throws it across the street in a neighbor's yard. A year later, the guy opens the front door and the same snail is on his doorstep. The snail says, "What the f*ck was that about?"

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#383209 - 01/23/12 07:03 AM Re: Should I bother trying to friend this guy? [Re: supergirl1980]
whome Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/07/11
Posts: 1736
Loc: Johannesburg South Africa
HI supergirl1980

I would caution you about getting the supergirl complex. You might now be more attracted to this man, because he is damaged.

I know therapists that have cried trying to help survivors, they are extremely damaged people. The biggest problem here is that this "Mark" chap seems to not accept the effects that CSA has on life and carries on with his acting out, drinking etc.

The best that you could do for him is to chat to his friend and ask him to give him a survivor brochure .
I will post one on my blog page for you to give to him.

Don't play the hero and give it to him or slip it into his briefcase, it will ruin his world. It must come from his friend that he has confided in.

Remember that healed survivors are really great people, so long term there might be hope, really long term.

Matrix Men Blog


Good luck
Martin

_________________________
Matrix Men South Africa
Survivors Supporting Each other
Matrix Men Blog

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#383241 - 01/23/12 04:29 PM Re: Should I bother trying to friend this guy? [Re: whome]
supergirl1980 Offline


Registered: 01/20/12
Posts: 12
Loc: Texas
Geez. I do not have any notions that I can fix him or save him in any way. I do not want to date him. I don't know how I can be clearer about that. I have a more serious love interest who totally has it together - this is the kind of guy I want!

But I am a compassionate person. My friends have given me strength to help me with my own issues (not related to CSA) and get help for them. They could not fix me but without their unconditional friendship and support I don't know where I would be.

PS Supergirl has nothing to do with me saving anyone but a screenname I've used occasionally because I'm proud of my own achievements and progress I've made in my own life. I'm sorry for people who assume anyone trying to help someone else must be "codependent" and in need of self-help books.


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#383247 - 01/23/12 05:10 PM Re: Should I bother trying to friend this guy? [Re: supergirl1980]
phoenix321 Offline


Registered: 09/26/11
Posts: 912
Loc: USA, FL
Originally Posted By: supergirl1980
Geez. I do not have any notions that I can fix him or save him in any way. I do not want to date him. I don't know how I can be clearer about that. I have a more serious love interest who totally has it together - this is the kind of guy I want!

But I am a compassionate person. My friends have given me strength to help me with my own issues (not related to CSA) and get help for them. They could not fix me but without their unconditional friendship and support I don't know where I would be.

PS Supergirl has nothing to do with me saving anyone but a screenname I've used occasionally because I'm proud of my own achievements and progress I've made in my own life. I'm sorry for people who assume anyone trying to help someone else must be "codependent" and in need of self-help books.


Supergirl,

Sorry if I upset you. I wasn't trying to be overly harsh just forceful like I would have been with my mom way back when. Did that 20-25 years ago and she still wouldn't listen. Think we all thought you meant dating. CSA is bad enough. Throw alcohol and you got a bonfire. I really have no idea how spouses get through an alcoholics recovery.

They told people I sat in AA meetings with and said no romance for 2 years. And recovery was with same sex. Casual friendships were fine but the tough recovery work was reserved for the program with same sex. AA won't give a male newbie a female sponsor due to romance issues developing because lots of deep stuff goes on with a sponsor. Vice-versa for female alcoholics. They do the same in NA (sat in those too).

The most interesting thing recovered alcoholics told me where they were master liars and manipulators because of alcohol. The 12-steps have tons of honesty and integrity building because of it. The sponsors I saw in those groups were rough. They were blunt with their brothers and sisters. I said, "you guys are rough." One 20 year member told me, "we call anyone on their bullshit. You need a sledgehammer to get through to us. We are gentle outside meetings or to someone in a crisis but tough to those who have been here awhile."

You are real compassionate for sure and have a good heart. Again, we thought this was romantic. Be a friend by all means. Just be careful about getting involved. Talking about deep stuff should be done with a T and a sponsor and in an AA meeting (with the same sex on top of it). Those people know what they are up against. It works. Saw raging alcoholics change almost overnight (a year). Seeing what went on in AA certainly changed my mind to ever even considering drinking to excess. Peace.



Edited by phoenix321 (01/23/12 05:11 PM)
_________________________
Phoenix

A guy opens the front door and sees a snail on his doorstep. He picks up the snail and throws it across the street in a neighbor's yard. A year later, the guy opens the front door and the same snail is on his doorstep. The snail says, "What the f*ck was that about?"

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#407050 - 08/17/12 02:12 AM Re: Should I bother trying to friend this guy? [Re: supergirl1980]
supergirl1980 Offline


Registered: 01/20/12
Posts: 12
Loc: Texas
Update: We've never gotten together, but we've become pretty good friends.

Last week he got arrested for soliciting prostitution. I'm so shocked and saddened, but then I remembered this thread and the warnings about the prostitutes.

I'm not trying to save him but am very afraid for him. Since he's already on probation for DUI, it will be a miracle if he doesn't go to prison. He'll lose his job in finance and won't be able to get a new one as a felon. I am slightly worried about suicide, honestly.

He doesn't know I know about the arrest. The few friends I've told say he is a loser and to run like hell, but I can't do that. I want to talk to him and tell him he cannot do this on his own, and he desperately needs therapy. Should I tell him I know what happened? Back away from him?


Edited by supergirl1980 (08/17/12 02:13 AM)

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#407056 - 08/17/12 05:20 AM Re: Should I bother trying to friend this guy? [Re: supergirl1980]
Lancer Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/13/12
Posts: 901
Loc: Florida
One thing I've liked about the 12 Steps is rigorous self honesty. Well, often I haven't liked it at the time, but that's what's worked for me.

Okay, Mark's a hottie, great personality...and fucked up.

You're not gonna like this. But what do you hope to accomplish? A romp in the sack? Yee-haw! Hey, I understand. TX/AR guys can be hot. I dunno if STDs are an influence, but even with safer sex there's still things like herpes and hep, a good possibility if he's hanging with the prosties. Oh, the romp's a nice fantasy...but keep it at that.

If you're friends are saying run like hell, well, sounds like a good indication to me.

"I'm not trying to save him but...am slightly worried about suicide...." Sounds to me like you ARE trying to save him. SLIGHTLY worried about suicide? Oh, golly, I'd say suicide is more serious than that.

"...he cannot do this on his own"? Well, until now he's done it on his own. What are you going to accomplish? Perhaps you're gonna make sure he does it RIGHT? According to whose standards? Yours? On whose schedule? Yours?

He might lose his job in finance? On this track, I'd say that's more than a definite possibility. What are you going to do to prevent it? Be with him 24/7? Sometimes hitting bottom like that, including suicide attempts, is what it takes - you'll hear it all over this board - for someone to get himself into recovery.

Not trying to save him? Well, yeah, actually sounds like you are. Then again, I could have completely misunderstood your posts. I'm not perfekt y'know.


My dad, a recovering alcoholic for 13 years until his death had a terrific way of describing his pigeons (potential AA members). He liked to say that XYZ decided to go back and do some more research. And that was fine with him. Whatever it takes.

So, maybe you need to go back and do some more research....

And when/if you're ready, perhaps hit an Al-Anon meeting where I'll bet you'll hear a lot of stories like your own:
http://www.texas-al-anon.org/

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#407059 - 08/17/12 06:19 AM Re: Should I bother trying to friend this guy? [Re: supergirl1980]
Valkyrie Offline


Registered: 04/27/12
Posts: 167
Run. Fast. I am 12 years in my marriage with a survivor and if only I knew then...

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#407060 - 08/17/12 06:22 AM Re: Should I bother trying to friend this guy? [Re: supergirl1980]
Lancer Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/13/12
Posts: 901
Loc: Florida
Yoda: "To Obi-wan you listen!"

To Val you listen! ;-)

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#407070 - 08/17/12 10:39 AM Re: Should I bother trying to friend this guy? [Re: supergirl1980]
Valkyrie Offline


Registered: 04/27/12
Posts: 167
I wasn't going to get involved in this thread, but well, too late. Allow me to expound Supergirl...

My husband is good looking, charming, and has a lager than life personality. He genuinely enjoys and appreciates women. That said, in the 12 years we have been together, he has always surrounded himself with needy, damaged, co-dependent female friends.

ACT I: Handsome Boy Meets Awkward Girl who feels so "honored" to have the cool kid at school notice her.

ACT II: Handsome Boy's Secret Pain Is Revealed so Girl feels as though she is the only one who "really knows him" and mistakenly believes only she can "save him"

ACT III: The Charade Continues...until one day there is an emotional and/or sexual affair, or the Girl is stuck in an emotionally abusive friendship she cannot extricate herself from.

ACT IV: The Inevitable Implosion

None of these women are particularly "bad" people, they just have their own issues and were easily led astray. One told me how she was shocked to the core when her own mother told her she was never going to have a boyfriend/husband/marriage/family until she quit mooning over my husband. While she was "friends" with my husband, she ruined every relationship she had by pouring her resources into him. She wised up and got out. Immediately, she was happy and wonders how it all came to be in the first place.

The fact that you have a normal functioning boyfriend means nothing here. The fact that you are arguing with people in this forum who have not only been around this block a few dozen times, but are WARLORDS of this block, tells me you are solidly in ACT II but gearing up towards ACT III (ACT III being the amazing sneak-attack, you hardly know it happens until you are well into ACT IV).

However, it is not too late. His problems are that - HIS.

YOU, my dear girl, are a frog in a slowly boiling pot of water, and WE are the tongs trying to help you out before you become someone's entre.

You clearly know that you are in danger of something because you would not be here otherwise. You have asked for assistance and we are giving it. Accept it as you will or continue on until the play's ending. I can absolutely guarantee you it doesn't end well and it is no damn comedy.


Edited by Valkyrie (08/17/12 06:13 PM)

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#407098 - 08/17/12 01:20 PM Re: Should I bother trying to friend this guy? [Re: supergirl1980]
supergirl1980 Offline


Registered: 01/20/12
Posts: 12
Loc: Texas
When I meant he can't do it alone, I mean he needs intense therapy. A professional. Rehab. Something. NOT ME.

Valkyrie, I'm not arguing with you guys. I'm absorbing your input like a sponge.

I will run from this train wreck. If I were some amazing saint of a person I would try to stick around but I'm not. This is all too dangerous and destructive.

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#407102 - 08/17/12 01:43 PM Re: Should I bother trying to friend this guy? [Re: supergirl1980]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2503
Loc: Denver, CO
TRIGGERED RESPONSE - ADVANCE WARNING! I apologize in advance, but the responses I've read have hit me hard - wasn't going to respond, but then thought maybe someone on this side of the coin should say something......

ok ... this guy definitely has problems and with CSA in his past, probably some majorly unresolved ones. And if you think only an "amazing saint of a person" should be his friend" and you see friendship with him as "a train wreck", please, by all means, run.

Don't consider how that kind of departure may strike him ... another type of abuse ... rejection - but then - his problem, not yours.

Yes - run. My guess is he'll be better off in the long run without you.

...end of VERY TRIGGERED RESPONSE.

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#407105 - 08/17/12 02:18 PM Re: Should I bother trying to friend this guy? [Re: supergirl1980]
Valkyrie Offline


Registered: 04/27/12
Posts: 167
Originally Posted By: supergirl1980
I'm not trying to save him but am very afraid for him....I am slightly worried about suicide, honestly...The few friends I've told say he is a loser and to run like hell, but I can't do that. I want to talk to him and tell him he cannot do this on his own, and he desperately needs therapy. Should I tell him I know what happened? Back away from him?


You say you will run but everything you have written indicates exactly the opposite. The fact you are even here asking indicates exactly the opposite. You are already involved and are looking to be more so.

And I can't speak for all survivors, but if someone unexpectedly laid it on my H that they knew he was abused, it would send him over a cliff and cause him to act out in his usual self-destructive, self-mutilating way.

Feel compassion but stay DETACHED. You really have no idea what you are dealing with here. This guy has to come to his own realizations and then seek help on his own. It has to begin with him.

YOU CANNOT SAVE HIM.


Edited by Valkyrie (08/17/12 02:21 PM)

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#407106 - 08/17/12 02:21 PM Re: Should I bother trying to friend this guy? [Re: supergirl1980]
cant_remember Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 1046
*** CUSS WORD WARNING ***

What the fuck is going on here?

This woman comes here looking for support, and everyone tells her to run? What is wrong with you people?

How many survivors here would be dead or in prison if it hadn't been for a perceptive, empathetic friend helping steer him towards recovery?

How many of us are dead because everyone who could have helped ran away instead?

Supergirl, do your thing. If Mark can articulate to a judge that he has CSA issues and needs help, maybe he can avoid prison time. He's hit rock bottom and he needs help. If you don't help him, who will?

(I probably should have given an advance warning for excessive rhetorical questions, huh?)
_________________________
Recovery is possible. Hang in there, brothers.

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#407110 - 08/17/12 02:46 PM Re: Should I bother trying to friend this guy? [Re: supergirl1980]
Valkyrie Offline


Registered: 04/27/12
Posts: 167
If "Supergirl" goes in for a penny, she has to go in for a pound. It's a massive commitment with potentially good and bad consequences and she is being appropriately warned about the seriousness of it all.

Many of us partners have learned the hard way that we cannot force a survivor into recovery they aren't ready for, nor can we "fix" them. Many of us have lost ourselves to this nightmare and have struggled to regain ourselves.

What if she digs in to this and finds she cannot handle it? What happens to the survivor then? That point has already been brought up by a survivor here.

What if she surprises this guy with the knowledge of his abuse and he freaks the hell out like a lot of survivors do? I have witnessed that twice now and I don't wish that experience on anyone.

What if she like many of the capable, intelligent partners here on this forum, loses herself in this guy's problems? She already admits she is "sick" over this. There's a way to be compassionate, supportive, and detached until such time this guy decides for himself that he needs help.

There's all sorts of variables and ways this can play out. She may ignore everything said here, but she asked for opinions and she is receiving the cold hard truth in return as many of us have experienced it. Of course it is up to her to perform the cost/benefit analysis, but it's not fair to the survivor or anyone else around her if she goes about this half-committed, half-witted, and ill-informed.

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#407111 - 08/17/12 03:06 PM Re: Should I bother trying to friend this guy? [Re: supergirl1980]
cant_remember Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 1046

This guy needs help, and she could be the only one to help him.

Nowhere in the advice she received from spouses/friends did I see any caveats to the advice to run away.

This Mark guy, aside from the prostitution bust, doesn't sound all that bad. Isn't every Texan born with one DUI on their record?

Yes, you are right to be concerned about HOW she reveals her knowledge of her abuse to Mark. It could indeed blow up in a bad way. But we're not talking about a casual friend, we're talking about a guy in legal jeopardy at rock bottom.

Let's help this guy out and give Supergirl the support she deserves for at least TRYING to be a hero.
_________________________
Recovery is possible. Hang in there, brothers.

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#407115 - 08/17/12 03:55 PM Re: Should I bother trying to friend this guy? [Re: supergirl1980]
Valkyrie Offline


Registered: 04/27/12
Posts: 167
We are cautioning her to stay away, because as Herowanabe previously pointed out, absolutely everything Supergirl has written points to a really strong co-dependent nature. If this is true, in trying to be a "hero" to this guy, there will be two people suffering from his CSA instead of just one.

Supergirl - I would greatly encourage you to search this forum site for "co-dependency" and really read through other partners' experiences and how they fell into that trap.


Edited by Valkyrie (08/17/12 03:55 PM)

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#407116 - 08/17/12 04:04 PM Re: Should I bother trying to friend this guy? [Re: supergirl1980]
Haps Offline


Registered: 07/06/12
Posts: 89
Loc: Ohio
***TRYING TO STAY OUT BUT I COULDN'T WARNING***

(sorry, not poking fun at the very real need for trigger warnings here, but had to make fun of myself. hope that came across)

Cant_Remember - You make a wonderful point. Caring people are needed for ANYONE to recover from ANYTHING, and CSA is no different. I'm only making small strides to understand my role in the matter with my CSA partner and how I can best position myself to help him. It's a sticky, tricky dance. And I'm about to project a shit load of my own situation into this thread.

SuperGirl - I have to admit, I was warned early on in my relationship with my partner that he was "a mess" and I should steer clear. (Hindsight has this mutual 'friend' having issues of his own and deflecting!) I chose not to heed that advice. I'm not sure I would have run, honestly, but I wish I was prepared for what was in store for the past 6 years. I'm in my mid-30's. My partner is in his early 40s. He was abused from 8 - 18 by a family member.

Fast forward one year ago... my life feel apart. My own issues crept up as his reared their ugly head like I had never scene before. We're talking ugly fights (yes, a few fists), abandonment, emotional/verbal abuse, family and friends pulled in, yada yada...

Nine months ago I went to Al-Anon and started EMDR therapy. I grew up in an (dry) alcoholic family and have a background in mental health, so it didn't surprise me that I had some trauma-related issues to work through myself. I had no idea how the roots of my own codependency were so deep. I did have to save my partner to save my own self worth. I used HIM to feel good about myself. If he was happy, I was a success. If he was working, I was calm. MY life had spun out of control, and I was SO focused on him I didn't even see it happening DESPITE having lived this patter in prior relationships. This relationship just went further than any of the others.

So, what's my point here? Hang in...

First, YOU MUST TAKE CARE OF YOURSELF here. No ifs, ands, or butts. Eat, exercise, sleep, socialize with YOUR friends. If you find yourself thinking about him more than you should, PLEASE listen to us and take those steps back. Your posts really resonate with me and strike my codependent chords. Are you cd? I have no clue! wink I've written graduate papers longer than what you've provided here, so I can't really judge, but know that folks who are VERY in touch with themselves here are having a strong reaction.

Second, look at your past relationships and friendships. Do you do more than your share of the work in them? If you TRULY believe that your relationships and friendships are equal, balanced, and healthy, then I might support you in supporting him. If you have a TWINGE of anything in your gut as a result of that introspection, STEP THE HELL BACK! Yes, he might be a great guy, but YOU might not be ready for this.

Third, check out an open AA meeting or Al-Anon meeting in your area. They're REALLY great groups. I'm not telling you to work the program, I'm asking you to talk with people who are in recovery and people who have been a bit closer to these situations. Arm yourself with knowledge before you become too involved.

Fourth, make sure your emotional house is in order. Many of us supporters have found ourselves up past our eyeballs before we knew what hit us because the process happens so gradually and we had little/no baseline by which to compare what was going on. Do you have friends that you can get down and dirty emotionally with? Supporting this guy might just bring some of your own "emotional corks" to the top of your "psychological pool". Be ready for that. Have your system in place. If you start to find yourself getting pulled in too far, reach back out for help. Post here. Attend and Al-Anon meeting. *DO NOT* look to your new friend for help/support - he's not there to give it to you.

Finally, make sure you have your emotional boundaries in order. If this guy is where you say he is, you're going to be making some very large emotional deposits in a friendship bank. He will probably NOT be able to pay you back for a while, if ever. Are you okay with that? Do you have a system in place where you can borrow emotional money? Boundaries you put in place NOW will help you from going emotionally broke LATER. I'm not joking on this one. It happens slowly... I literally went emotionally and financially bankrupt before I knew the monster had TWO names - CSA (his) and codependency (mine).


So... all of that said, I hope it comes across okay for everyone here knowing that there's a LOT of my own personal crap in there. smile I just wish someone would have sat me down like a good little boy and said "Now, Haps. ::pat on the head:: It's nice and sweet what you're doing, but here's a tiiiiiny preview of coming attractions."


And, all of that out of the way, I do really admire your willingness and desire to reach out to someone who's genuinely suffering. I REALLY hope that he wants to get better. Everyone deserves health and happiness, and this board is FULL of such great people that it made my own personal work so much easier to find more health and happiness for myself. I welcome you to this fold, but PLEASE educate yourself and arm yourself with knowledge along the way.

All the best!

...oh, and don't give him money. Oh, wait... *I* shouldn't have given my P money. DAMN!!!!

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#407124 - 08/17/12 05:57 PM Re: Should I bother trying to friend this guy? [Re: supergirl1980]
GoodHope Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/05/11
Posts: 417
I am so sorry Canít remember. I donít even have to try very hard to figure out how awful it must be to be a survivor and read what we supporters are saying to this woman. It is probably especially vexing to survivors who haven't acted out. I wish you guys who are working on healing, and for many of whom, can attribute your success thus far, to having a loved one help you through it, didnít have to read this. Itís the part about MS I hate. I worry about setting you guys back. But then there are cold hard realities associated with loving and supporting a survivor.
Iíll only state my facts.
1. I wouldnít wish this last year and a half of my life on my worst enemy.
2. I believe in complete honesty and what I tell the strangers on this board is no different than what I would tell my own daughter, mother, sister or friend.
3. I only advocated bolting under any circumstances IF he wasnít getting help. Itís not her job to put her life on hold while (if?) he gets it together enough to go.
The other commenters talked about co-dependency. It is in Supergirls best interest to address this issue pronto if indeed it describes her. Weíll shoo her away from this gentleman only for her to turn around and get involved in an equally unhealthy relationship.
I frequently dissuade posters on here who are not married to their partner (who is not seeking help) to flee. You canít help someone who isnít helping himself. You cannot do it. One emotionally sick partner makes for a sick relationship. The math will never add up differently.
Years ago I worked with a girl who I suspected was being physically abused. I told her in a matter of fact voice, ďWhen you are ready to leave, call me. Iíll do whatever I can to help you.Ē
She called a few months later. The staff rallied around her securing household goods, contacting domestic violence centers etc.
She already knew her situation was messed up! There is nothing I could have done to help her until she was ready to walk. Itís the same situation with CSA survivors. Wives sometimes have some leverage (I told him I cannot stay in a marriage with a person who knows he has a problem and isnít working to fix it) but Supergirl doesnít have that. Sheís asking to potentially bang her head against a wall for a very, very long time! Who would advocate for someone to do that? You can be compassionate without entangling your life and emotions with someone broken.
It sounds awful. It is awful. But it would be reckless of me to advise anyone to jump into a similar hell hole like I am in.
_________________________
Wife of a survivor

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#407146 - 08/18/12 12:55 AM Re: Should I bother trying to friend this guy? [Re: supergirl1980]
cant_remember Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 1046
I know you ladies mean well, but someone needs to tell Supergirl some practical advice, as she seems to have her mind made up that she wants to help and stop pathologizing her attempt at altruism by calling it co-dependancy.

Goal #1 should be to keep Mark out of prison. It's not co-dependent of anyone to want to see someone get help without his life getting ruined.

I've had women run from me when I told them I was CSA, even when I was in therapy and trying my best. I'm 35 and single, and resigned to it. To read the advice from women here telling supergirl to run, it hurts -- because you would have supported the women who ran from me, too. Because I wasn't worth it, either.
_________________________
Recovery is possible. Hang in there, brothers.

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#407154 - 08/18/12 06:13 AM Re: Should I bother trying to friend this guy? [Re: supergirl1980]
Valkyrie Offline


Registered: 04/27/12
Posts: 167
cant remember - no one is saying this guy isn't worth it, we are questioning if she is the best person to help him, and it is utterly irresponsible given what we know, to recommend her down this course of action. This man is in terribly pain and clearly needs help, but it is not moral or ethical to advise her to be the one to take it one if she is not suited for the job.

And for the record, Supergirl has received the best damn practical advice she can get and from people in the trenches no less. She is not a survivor, she is looking to sign on as a partner, and we know of which we speak.

Here's a thought: Supergirl, you say you have a great boyfriend with his act together. Have you discussed this with him? What are his thoughts? Have you thought about how your involvement with Mark might affect that relationship? There's a great pull in feeling "needed", but if it tips into dangerous territory, it will affect your relationship.

My suggestion: discuss with your boyfriend the situation with Mark and how you are thinking of getting involved. Then bring him to this site, show him this thread, and have a conversation about it. Your boyfriend, or even a best girlfriend for that matter - someone who knows you best - might be able to help you think through this situation where you can then make an informed decision for yourself.

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#407158 - 08/18/12 09:26 AM Re: Should I bother trying to friend this guy? [Re: supergirl1980]
cant_remember Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 1046
Val,

You can't deny what you've already written. Typing in all caps, "YOU CAN'T SAVE HIM," and then turning around and saying, "no one is saying this guy isn't worth it," is pretty damn rich. If you're going to say it, own it. You don't think he's worth it.

And while you're arm-chair psychoanalyzing Supergirl as co-dependent, it might be worth pointing out that you're projecting your situation onto her's, which could be totally different.

I know you must really love your husband, or else you wouldn't be in here struggling to make it work -- but how come that's not the advice that comes out?

One thing you said, Val, that makes sense is this: if Supergirl tells Mark that she "knows," it could certainly cause a class-A freak out. Oh God, could it ever. But there's a way of handling this, I think, that dodges that bullet.

All Supergirl needs to say is something like, "So, the DUI is one thing, but combined with the prostitution thing? And these other things that I've noticed about you? Maybe they're all symptoms of the same problem. From what I've heard and read about, it seems like all these could be the same symptoms of men who was sexually abused when they were kids. Did something like that happen to you? If so, you're not alone. There's help for it."

Then, all he has to do is nod his head.

Of course, yes, he could still freak out. But it's addressing the issue without revealing direct knowledge of it, and I think that's the important thing.

What Mark needs is a good lawyer and a therapist to do some intake sessions and then to act as an expert witness before the judge to divert Mark away from prison and into 1) an in-patient recovery program, followed by 2) a 12-step group like SAA and 3) some serious talk therapy and maybe 4) meds.

Every survivor is worth it; and anybody can save anybody else.
_________________________
Recovery is possible. Hang in there, brothers.

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#407159 - 08/18/12 10:18 AM Re: Should I bother trying to friend this guy? [Re: supergirl1980]
Haps Offline


Registered: 07/06/12
Posts: 89
Loc: Ohio
Cant_Remember-
Where were ya when things started on my end? wink I like your slow and steady approach. I do admit to my own projection here. And, I do like your suggestion of an approach that's both supportive and safe without going all out like I have. I can be a slippery slope, and starting on that slope with good shoes with a good footing can make a huge difference, I'm sure.

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#407164 - 08/18/12 11:56 AM Re: Should I bother trying to friend this guy? [Re: supergirl1980]
Esposa Offline
F&F Greeter
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/19/11
Posts: 726
Loc: NJ
I disagree. No one can save someone else. We can only be supportive and encouraging and loving. Telling someone who has fixer tendencies that they can indeed save someone else, is like telling a crack addict that one more hit won't hurt. It's irresponsible.

Every supporter on this site CARES and WANTS TO HELP. Every outcome though is different - and this is ONLY because of the survivor's willingness to save themselves. It is the key.

Supergirl - stand firm, offer support but know that you are not a fixer for this problem and, if you don't maintain that boundary, you quickly become an enabler.

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#407169 - 08/18/12 01:37 PM Re: Should I bother trying to friend this guy? [Re: supergirl1980]
cant_remember Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 1046
Would you still disagree if it was you who needed saving?
_________________________
Recovery is possible. Hang in there, brothers.

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#407170 - 08/18/12 01:56 PM Re: Should I bother trying to friend this guy? [Re: cant_remember]
Valkyrie Offline


Registered: 04/27/12
Posts: 167
Originally Posted By: cant_remember
You can't deny what you've already written. Typing in all caps, "YOU CAN'T SAVE HIM," and then turning around and saying, "no one is saying this guy isn't worth it," is pretty damn rich. If you're going to say it, own it. You don't think he's worth it.

And while you're arm-chair psychoanalyzing Supergirl as co-dependent, it might be worth pointing out that you're projecting your situation onto her's, which could be totally different.


Cant_remember - We all project and you are doing no less here. You are coming at it from the survivor perspective and not considering the partner at all.

But understand that my saying Supergirl cannot save Mark while also saying he is worth saving ARE NOT mutually exclusive concepts. Mark is worth saving, but he has to save himself. She cannot go into it thinking she can do the work for him.

And my husband and I have been together 12 years trying to tackle this while Supergirl is in another relationship with someone else and needs to understand the commitment involved.

I whole heartedly agree with you that every survivor is worth saving. And I appreciate your advocacy for the survivor, I truly do. I utterly disagree though that every partner is up to the task.

Supergirl: the truth is somewhere in between. Do the research, be informed, and think very long and hard about this before you proceed.

And with that, I am done here.


Edited by Valkyrie (08/18/12 01:57 PM)

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#407174 - 08/18/12 02:50 PM Re: Should I bother trying to friend this guy? [Re: supergirl1980]
Esposa Offline
F&F Greeter
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/19/11
Posts: 726
Loc: NJ
It's a funny expression - to need saving.

It's an opinion, open to each person's moral criteria. My friend has a loser boyfriend, does she need saving? My uncle is an alcoholic, does he "need" saving? Saving could become a full time job if you look around.

I followed my husband around, trying to SAVE him, while he picked up STDs, jeopardized our finances, drank, drove, slept with my friends and hurt our children. He surely needed saving. Only it doesn't work that way does it? We can't provide the SAVING. We provide the support. That's why we are SUPPORTERS, not SAVERS.

If I "NEEDED" saving, then I should be the first person in the SAVE ME line. If a supporter is leading the charge rather than bringing up the rear, it's a lose lose situation.

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#407183 - 08/18/12 05:27 PM Re: Should I bother trying to friend this guy? [Re: supergirl1980]
cant_remember Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 1046
Val and Esposa,

You are both obviously strong women who love your survivor husbands very much, enough to stick with them and wade into these forums for support and to support others. So, first of all, thank you for doing what you do.

Val, yes I was taking the survivor's side of this argument because no one else was.

I have never posted in the friends/family forum before this thread because it wasn't my place and thought I should give y'all the space you needed... but when I saw the lopsidedness of this conversation, I just had to say something.

For the record, I have zero DUIs, no STDs and no spouse or children to hurt with my acting out.

But there's one woman in my life that I regret got away from me, and she left me because of the CSA. The feeling that my brokenness drove her away, that there was nothing I could do, to think about it makes me sad.

That's all.
_________________________
Recovery is possible. Hang in there, brothers.

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#407198 - 08/18/12 11:01 PM Re: Should I bother trying to friend this guy? [Re: supergirl1980]
GoodHope Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/05/11
Posts: 417
Cant_remember, we have been told by other survivors that have not acted out how painful F & F can be for them. I'm sorry your potential partner bailed. I have the advantage of having distance between the CSA disclosure and acting out discoveries. I know what I did when I found out. I loved him. I held him. I asked him what he needed from me. I encouraged him. I stuck w him. I didn't judge him.

CSA disclosures are not necrssarily a partner repellant. Acting out...different thing. Legal troubles? Whole nother level.

It frustrates my husband that I can accept the CSA but not the accompanying compulsions that came w it. But they don't HAVE to go together.

The person who bolted on you was not up to the job. This frees you up for the person who is. We are out there and you are getting yourself ready by getting healthy. I can't wait to read about it when it happens for you.
_________________________
Wife of a survivor

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#407801 - 08/24/12 01:08 PM Re: Should I bother trying to friend this guy? [Re: cant_remember]
supergirl1980 Offline


Registered: 01/20/12
Posts: 12
Loc: Texas
Thanks for all who responded. Let me update you.

I think I said he and I met through a friend but we actually work together - I was trying to change the details to make this much more anonymous (eg his name is not really Mark and I'm not really from Texas and I was not born in 1980) - sorry about that. So we have talked about this off and on through the last week.

First I let on to Mark that I knew what he was really arrested for. At first he denied it, saying "wrong place, wrong time" and that he would get out of it, but as we got to talking he basically admitted it, by saying things like "it's not like I was trying to sell myself." He said that his friends were teasing him about how ugly the prostitutes were (the mugshots of everyone caught in the sting were posted) and how he told them it wasn't one of them but his girl (undercover cop) was actually hot.

Later he came and sat by my desk and talked to me some more. As he should be, he is stressing over what is going to happen with his probation. He told me the molestation. He joked about it, but he brought it up, saying, "Maybe I should finally bring up how I was touched as a kid. 'Waaah waah I was molested'" and then said, "Hell, weren't we all touched as kids?" and I said, "I wasn't, but a lot of people were" and that he should talk to his attorney about it.

Unfortunately since then he is back to denying he did anything wrong, saying he's sure the case will be dropped since he never did anything. Unfortunately for him, the charge is "offering to engage in act of prostitution" - he didn't have to actually do it, just offer to do it. I brought this up and he said "never happened" so he's just in major denial or more likely just didn't want to talk about it.

I read more about codependency since everyone is screaming about it. I can see myself being totally codependent - I want to take care of everyone! I started seeing a therapist this summer (my own issues) and will bring up CD.

Again, with my own issues, I know that there is nothing I can do to help Mark at all. Nobody can help you. There was absolutely nothing anyone could have said or done or tried to make me want to get help - it all came from within. The only, only thing that helped me was when my friends who knew about my disorder just continued to love me anyway, despite all the crap I pulled. That made all the difference in my self-esteem and knowing I was lovable, worthy of getting treatment, that I wasn't an awful person despite the awful things I had done.

I actually don't have a boyfriend - I have a very strong love interest who has his act together. He is one of my close friends, but he's a whole other story.

Thanks for listening and for the incredible advice and input.

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#407806 - 08/24/12 02:51 PM Re: Should I bother trying to friend this guy? [Re: supergirl1980]
cant_remember Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 1046
Honestly,

If I was around someone who made sarcastic baby crying sounds in regard to his CSA issues, I would get angry to the point of confrontation. That is total bullshit.

I assume it was much more than just "being touched," and if he can't acknowledge his own feelings on this and continues to put up a wall of sarcasm and denial around it all -- then the strong spouses who have been telling you to run from this guy are probably right.
_________________________
Recovery is possible. Hang in there, brothers.

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#407824 - 08/24/12 06:24 PM Re: Should I bother trying to friend this guy? [Re: cant_remember]
supergirl1980 Offline


Registered: 01/20/12
Posts: 12
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: cant_remember
If I was around someone who made sarcastic baby crying sounds in regard to his CSA issues, I would get angry to the point of confrontation. That is total bullshit.


Actually he might have said "poor me" or something instead of "waah"! I don't quite remember. But still, I can see he was trying to tell me and this is the only way he could do it, by being self-deprecating. There were people walking all around us. The point is, he wanted me to know and didn't know how I would react. I think he was feeling closer to me as a friend after our previous talk (we had gone outside and sat for about 45 minutes) and wanted me to know.

He definitely hides his pain by humor - he's always this way. So I don't think the way he told me is surprising. When we talk again later, alone, I will bring it up again and say first, I already knew, and second, get yourself help for THIS because it's destroying your life. Again, that's all I can do.

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#407872 - 08/25/12 08:28 AM Re: Should I bother trying to friend this guy? [Re: supergirl1980]
Valkyrie Offline


Registered: 04/27/12
Posts: 167
Supergirl - I understand masking personal traits for the sake anonymity, but you pull the rug out from all of us when you lie about the most basic facts. This place, this forum, where we all come to support each other and heal, does not and cannot continue to work when people come here and do that.

This sets off even more red flags about you being involved in this situation. When you manipulate facts, you manipulate us all to give the advice you want to hear.

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#407875 - 08/25/12 08:56 AM Re: Should I bother trying to friend this guy? [Re: supergirl1980]
Esposa Offline
F&F Greeter
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/19/11
Posts: 726
Loc: NJ
I agree, change names and locations, totally get it. Lie about relationships and situations, then what's the point?

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#407888 - 08/25/12 02:07 PM Re: Should I bother trying to friend this guy? [Re: Esposa]
supergirl1980 Offline


Registered: 01/20/12
Posts: 12
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: Esposa
I agree, change names and locations, totally get it. Lie about relationships and situations, then what's the point?


I'm sorry, I can see how you would be alarmed by that. I was trying to protect him as much as possible by changing states. It is not my CSA.

However, he was a friend of a friend to start with - we work at a large company and did not work closely together until recently. I knew him first through the friend who told me about his CSA. Also I never said I had a boyfriend; I said I had a more serious love interest, which is absolutely true.

Every other detail is true.

Your guys' input has been invaluable. I get it - I really do. I hope in the future you will be less sarcastic and accusatory with people like me who post, not knowing much about CSA but wanting to help someone they know. All I ever wanted to do was be kind to another human being.

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#407891 - 08/25/12 02:32 PM Re: Should I bother trying to friend this guy? [Re: supergirl1980]
Valkyrie Offline


Registered: 04/27/12
Posts: 167
Nothing Esposa nor I wrote was sarcastic. And we have accused you of nothing, only acknowledged the mistruths you have written. You have some serious gall saying that we have.

I cannot be involved in a situation with a person I do not trust nor have any clue about their true agenda. I have enough of that with my own H, something ALL of us partners are dealing with.

Sorry, but I'm done here.

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#407903 - 08/25/12 05:09 PM Re: Should I bother trying to friend this guy? [Re: supergirl1980]
supergirl1980 Offline


Registered: 01/20/12
Posts: 12
Loc: Texas
I wasn't talking about you two, but others. Feel free to read the thread again, particularly whoever made the "yeehaw" comment about Texas men. You and Esposa especially were great and I really appreciate it.

I guess what I've been told is true in that F&F is full of people at the end of their rope, fed up with being lied to, etc. No clue about my "true agenda?" Huh?

I will encourage my friend to visit forums like this one, but fortunately he won't need to visit F&F. The hostility here is beyond belief.

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#407916 - 08/25/12 08:57 PM Re: Should I bother trying to friend this guy? [Re: supergirl1980]
Lancer Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/13/12
Posts: 901
Loc: Florida
As they say in the meetings, take what you like and leave the rest.

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#408072 - 08/27/12 06:51 AM Re: Should I bother trying to friend this guy? [Re: supergirl1980]
Claire Offline


Registered: 08/27/12
Posts: 3
Hello All!
I've newly registered into the website. I have decided to do so after reading your posting Supergirl. I'm now on my 4th year in a" relationship "with a "friend". I do believe he has been sexually molested even though we never really talk about it directly. I always thought since I met him, that things were not quite right: 54 year old, physically looking like 40 year-old, very charming, etc, but been single for 25 years, married for 9 years, have 2 children. His sexual behavior has always put me on guards. He dates several girls in the same time, about 10, yes, in the same time. I don't even know how humanly one can do that. We were friends first, for about 1 year and half. Actually he was pursuing me very hard, but I kept my distance, intuitively knowing something not right. So, during that time, we became friends and talk to each other a lot. I have to say at that stage, we became best friends to each other. we really do care very much for each other, a high level of friendship.

Problems began when we slept for the first time, more than a year ago now. His behavior became completely erratic, confusing, moody, and angry. I was very confused and emotionally lost. Luckily for me for some reason I came across a book, Commitment phobic by Steve Carter. I began to read a lot about commitment phobic and phobia in general. All the books I read pointed me to sexual abuse. Also some clues that he left for me, such as telling me to read some books, most of them written by women who have been sexually abused, I though it was strange. I came across this website through my readings an researches.

He has told me recently that he used to be in a Catholic church and that priests were "f.....". I was serene when he told me that because of all the many readings I have done before.

Sorry for the long writing, but bottom line, this is what I want to tell you, Supergirl. I have thought a lot about getting or not getting involved with him. We tried to break up 10 to 15 times last year. Him breaking up with me and me not disagreeing. We agreed to go separate ways many, many times. As of today, we are still together. I have made the decision, knowing what I'm getting into because of the many, many readings I have done, to stay with him, at least as a friend, at best as a boyfriend. We work mechanisms that work for us. For example, we will not move in together until all his problems are resolved. We communicate almost only through emails and textings, no phone calls. We see each other when he "feels" good. I stay away from him after sex, at least a week. He's a workaholics and I understand it's part of his copping needs. I don't act needy. He doesn't want to be around my kids, which I totally agree, etc.

Yes please informed yourself as much as you can and be ready to tackle issues with him, stay on the top of the game as I can say.

Good luck!

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#408079 - 08/27/12 09:05 AM Re: Should I bother trying to friend this guy? [Re: supergirl1980]
Lavinia Offline


Registered: 12/02/09
Posts: 61
Welcome, Claire. I just wanted to say what you wrote was very insightful, so thank you.

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#408083 - 08/27/12 09:32 AM Re: Should I bother trying to friend this guy? [Re: supergirl1980]
SamV Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/13/09
Posts: 5947
Loc: Talladega, Alabama, USA
Please be considerate of the challenges facing supporters of a survivor. Many of the supporters on MaleSurvivor have come from stable, loving homes and have tried to make a life with a survivor, only to find the erratic, chaotic infidelity, sexual acting out and realizations that the hurt and pain associated with his past may undue the marital peace and companionship. These very supporters who come here are in many different types of relationships and have different backgrounds and expectations from such. It is amazing that a group of supporters facing such overwhelming obstacles can communicate in a one dimensional environment such as MaleSurvivor, reaching out to support other supporters and survivors and creating a healing environment in their own homes. That this environment can be fostered here is evidence of the sheer will of a supporter to hope for a present and future of blissful union with a survivor.

When others cannot explain exactly the nature of the relationship or their understanding of it, and come back to further define it, there could be discrepancies. Should that arise, let us not be quick to assume the worst, even if we are defending ourselves from further harm. Too, when we are accused of a discrepancy, we need to understand that those we wish to get experience and help from have been overwhelmed with many different "sides" of the same survivor, and it makes us sensitive to such discrepancies. Only by continuing to put up with each other in empathy and compassion, along with mercy will we be able to foster a healing place so that all supporters can come to find safe haven.

I am encouraged when I come into Family and Friends. Supporters, you get a hearty round of applause, a sincere "thank you" for the effort and determination you undertake to heal yourselves, support others in similar situations and your relationships.

My best to you all as we determine what is best for us, our loved ones and the lifetime friends we make and keep in MaleSurvivor.

Sam

The Moderator Team
_________________________
MaleSurvivor Moderator Emeritus 2012 - 2014

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#408154 - 08/27/12 10:35 PM Re: Should I bother trying to friend this guy? [Re: supergirl1980]
Esposa Offline
F&F Greeter
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/19/11
Posts: 726
Loc: NJ
I have read and re-read Claire's post above - and I have considered over and over not responding and I have to say that I am actually disappointed that no one else has responded.

Claire - all I can say is that you deserve to have your needs met in a loving and supportive way.

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#408292 - 08/29/12 09:51 AM Re: Should I bother trying to friend this guy? [Re: supergirl1980]
Claire Offline


Registered: 08/27/12
Posts: 3
Esposa - we are not in a committed relationship. We won't until we resolved all these issues. But, he's my friend and I promised him I will be his friend for all my life. He has always been honest with me. He talked to me before we begin the relationship we have right now. He told me he will hurt me and he wanted to know if I will be able to handle it. I thought at the beginning, the guy is crazy. He didn't ask me once, but several time before we begin our relationship. And I did thought about what he told me. What make me change my mind was one night, he broke up with me with no apparent reason, he walked away and I saw tears in his eyes. That was almost a year ago. And I thought, something is not right.

I made the decision to take a risk in this relationship. By the way, is not all relationships a risk? Can we all find a super proof relationships without
any hurts? At least with him, I know in advance what is his problem. On the human side, he's extremely caring and understanding, always on my side. He's extremely sensitive and human. I truly enjoy him as a human being.

But, I will bail out if he physically become violent. So far, the only hurt he did to me is his sexual acting out. Chasing girls. I realize he does that when he's unsecured with me, when he's afraid I'm going to leave him. He has this very strange fear that one day I will leave him, based on no logical reasons. I did not do or say anything that can make him think I will leave him.

And yes, his sexual acting out bothers me and hurt me. If I see no change in that area, I will not stay with him.

I used to be in a emotional chaos with him. But not anymore. I have accepted the fact he has problems. The only issue for me is if I'm willing to deal with it. If not, I'll walk away and he will just be a friend. If I do, then, I have to support him in his efforts to try to get better. Yes, I said support, not fix. And I know, it's going to be a lot of work, but it will be something I want to do, and not because I feel I am obligated to do.

I think rejection is the worst thing you can do to a human being who is suffering.

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#408363 - 08/29/12 09:39 PM Re: Should I bother trying to friend this guy? [Re: supergirl1980]
Esposa Offline
F&F Greeter
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/19/11
Posts: 726
Loc: NJ
Hi Claire - I get you. Trust me, I do. But allow me....and I write the following with kindness in my heart:

Does this relationship and your commitment to it keep you from exploring things that truly meet your needs? I find it a little hard to believe that texting and not talking and having sex and needing a time out are truly fullfilling your emotional needs. But hey, what do I know. There is another post on here about lowering the bar and having low expectations. And there are many posts about people thinking they deserve less than they do. And even more posts about recognizing co-dependence.

I think we need to support, provide friendship and love - and compassion, but I also think it is unfair to both ourselves and our survivors when we sacrifice our own needs. And I think that we have a responsibility to our own children, to show them healthy relationships so that they, in turn, learn to build them for themselves.

You say he is afraid you will leave him but that there is no logic to that? Ummm, he is acting out sexually. Sounds like he is a little more realistic about the pain he creates for you than you are. And that, Claire, is what worries me about what you write. You are sending the message to me anyway, that you don't think you deserve more than what he offers. And that you think there is something noble about sacrificing what you need and deserve for his cause. There is nothing noble in that - only we supporters can't see that until we learn to detach.

I wrote another post about driving the getaway car. I feel a little like that's what you are doing. He's robbing banks and you're willing to drive the getaway car. Why? Sacrificing yourself is not a gesture of love - nor of self love.

It has taken me YEARS of pain to be able to say these things and mean them so I hope you are not offended.

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#408366 - 08/29/12 10:51 PM Re: Should I bother trying to friend this guy? [Re: supergirl1980]
Claire Offline


Registered: 08/27/12
Posts: 3
Esposa- No, I'm not offended, I am glad you are talking to me frankly and I know you just want my well being. I am listening and take all your advice into consideration. As I mentioned earlier, I'm not committed to him and I don't want any commitment until I know for sure what I am getting into. No, I do not want to save him and I'm not planning to save him. I just feel sorry I might have to leave someone I truly care for. We have great conversations and I will deeply miss him as he is truly a friend.

Do I lower myself or I'd rather say do I lower my needs? I did not think I lowered myself because he's a super great looking guy, good job, etc, the type of guy girls will chase for. But, you are right that I more than likely lower my needs. I certainly want more than he has to offer. I will talk to him seriously and see what he wants out of the relationship.

Do I sacrifice myself? I don't know because we are not in a committed relationship.

What worries me is that I do not want to be with someone who is sick and does not want to heal. I do not want to take that burden. I do not want to babysit an adult. As you said, I've got my kids to take care of.

I just feel sorry I might have to loose a great friend, someone I really care for.

I will meet him soon, so I'll talk to him, and I will let you know.

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#408372 - 08/29/12 11:45 PM Re: Should I bother trying to friend this guy? [Re: supergirl1980]
HD001 Offline


Registered: 07/30/12
Posts: 263
Loc: us
Supergirl here is my two cents for what it is worth. I think it all comes down to what you want to experience. If being friends with someone like him and possibly helping or getting hurt is something you would like to experience then go ahead. Maybe you will be able to help maybe you won't. All of us get to choose what roads we want to take and all of them hold different lessons. My first husband was a crazy drunk and I chose to leave him and not deal with his problems. Now I am married to another man with problems and am choosing to take a different raod maybe I will be able to help maybe I wont but I want the to try this time and see what happens see what I can learn. So in my mind it just depends on what set of lessons you want to learn pleasant or painful
_________________________
Everything comes from within

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