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#383000 - 01/21/12 12:00 AM Re: Should I bother trying to friend this guy? [Re: herowannabe]
supergirl1980 Offline


Registered: 01/20/12
Posts: 12
Loc: Texas
Thank you, herowannabe. I will remember "me first" when I am around him and won't let him manipulate me.

However, I don't think I'm really all that codependent since I definitely prefer dating men who have their acts together. I'm not out looking for people to fix.


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#383011 - 01/21/12 05:59 AM Re: Should I bother trying to friend this guy? [Re: supergirl1980]
Gretta Offline


Registered: 09/17/11
Posts: 239
Hi Supergirl

Be careful and just don't fool yourself. You do sound incredibly compassionate but between the lines I read that you care very much for him. This path is not for the faint of heart. You will certainly need your super girl powers.

A year or so ago I found that my h had been hiring prostitutes for the last couple years, he had a porn addiction that would make your mouth drop and he was starting to work on a mistress. I have three Children I was devastated. The infidelity was easier to deal with than the unfolding of his CSA, that started so young it would make your stomach turn. He went on to being abused by his father, grandfather and too many neighborhood boys to mention. We have spent the year getting my h to solid ground and he is a much different man than he was. We have aged more in the last year than we have in the last 7 yrs.

Dealing with it all has been very difficult. I love him. He is dedicated to his healing and has made incredible strides. He has done everything I have asked and that is huge because control is a very big issue with survivors. I consider myself lucky, but in the back of my heart and mind I don't know if I will ever feel safe. I will always be on guard which stinks.

This is not a club I would want to join (if I had a choice) but I have met some of the most exceptional women and I have been fortunate enough to have them help me through the hell my husband and I have been in. Good luck.Gretta


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#383046 - 01/21/12 07:43 PM Re: Should I bother trying to friend this guy? [Re: Gretta]
GoodHope Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/05/11
Posts: 413
There are a couple of things amiss in your original post--the most important is that you don't know if he is getting help for the CSA. If he isn't, there is no other answer than to run--run like you are on fire, because get too close and you very soon will be.

My other thoughts are this isn't a direction you want to go in if you aren't in it for the long haul, not for your sake, but for his. Trust is usually a huge issue for rape victims (and CSA falls in that category). It doesn't seem that you know him well enough to discern whether or not you would be around long-term and it could be detrimental for his recovery to get close to someone who says s/he wants to help him, and then find out it isn't for you and to pull away.

Read around on this board. This is NOT a months long process and bang, you are well. Its a years/decades long process with advances and retreats, battles won, battles lost.

You may feel good reaching out, being a shoulder and a help, but ultimately, every good deed should be about the person for whom it is done, so make sure that is your motive.

What you see in this man is very likely a carefully crafted facade. This can be the coping mechanism for survivors. My husband is charming, funny, smart, kind, confident, successful etc--On the outside. What lies beneath is turmoil that he tries/tried? to quell with all kinds of sexual acting out--dark, dangerous stuff. And maintaining such a facade requires a fair amount of deceit--lying is not uncommon among survivors. Not all survivors behave that way, but what you have seen of the guy is an indication of at the very least--promiscuity.

If I were you, I'd keep doing what you are doing--not seeking out, not retreating (I don't think ostracizing people for things beyond their control is ok at all). Maybe a deeper level of friendship will develop on its own and you will be privy to the missing information I mentioned in this post. You'll be miles ahead of me because I had no clue until years into my marriage when the damage to him, me and our family was well underway. You will know immediately where to go to be of most assistance - here -. I wish you well.

_________________________
Wife of a survivor

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#383186 - 01/23/12 12:28 AM Re: Should I bother trying to friend this guy? [Re: Gretta]
supergirl1980 Offline


Registered: 01/20/12
Posts: 12
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: Gretta
Hi Supergirl

Be careful and just don't fool yourself. You do sound incredibly compassionate but between the lines I read that you care very much for him.


You're right, I really do. Obviously I must or else I wouldn't have bothered to find this forum and ask for advice. I'm glad I did. I saw him today and I had to keep reminding myself "me first." I also thought about how you said that image he projects is a facade.

Thank you for the advice. I know I can't help him with his drinking, CSA, rage, etc but maybe a real friendship will develop and in some way that can help him.



Edited by supergirl1980 (01/23/12 12:29 AM)

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#383202 - 01/23/12 05:29 AM Re: Should I bother trying to friend this guy? [Re: supergirl1980]
phoenix321 Offline


Registered: 09/26/11
Posts: 912
Loc: USA, FL
Originally Posted By: supergirl1980
Originally Posted By: Gretta
Hi Supergirl

Be careful and just don't fool yourself. You do sound incredibly compassionate but between the lines I read that you care very much for him.


You're right, I really do. Obviously I must or else I wouldn't have bothered to find this forum and ask for advice. I'm glad I did. I saw him today and I had to keep reminding myself "me first." I also thought about how you said that image he projects is a facade.

Thank you for the advice. I know I can't help him with his drinking, CSA, rage, etc but maybe a real friendship will develop and in some way that can help him.


This is telling: "...maybe a real friendship will develop and in some way that can help him." So, you gonna go fix him? Do you wanna be his mommy? That's rough BUT both of those are co-dependent issues before you get started. Sorry but that's what your compassion is leading you to. It's only leading you to be a caretaker. Because he's pretty? It's nice you have all this compassion. You're wanting to be a girlfriend possibly not a nurse. And, that sentence you wrote is exactly what my mom did with my sperm donor and he ruined her. You have to look at the inside of a person not the fascade and the beauty that blinds you to the truth. Come on, everyone in this thread is said No to your original question and you've said he's a criminal and messed up. So, what's the point? You want to fix him deep down inside. That's as unhealthy as it gets. Like I said, my mom went and actually did that and ruined her life (and mine) over it. Perhaps you have some issues yourself if your willing to dive into the deep end with someone who looks like an angel on the outside and the devil on the inside. Most would run from the felon alone. Not you. Let me see if a "real" friendship (which he has no clue about) can help him. Supergirl saved people but she didn't go set up house with 'em. Bad boys aren't called bad boys because they are nice. Sounds like you have a history with bad boys. Kind of insanity to keep doing the same thing hoping for different results.

People who are codependent often take on the role as a martyr; they constantly put other's needs before their own and in doing so forget to take care of themselves. This creates a sense that they are "needed"; they cannot stand the thought of being alone and no one needing them. Codependent people are constantly in search of acceptance. When it comes to arguments, codependent people also tend to set themselves up as the "victim". When they do stand up for themselves, they feel guilty.



Edited by phoenix321 (01/23/12 05:39 AM)
_________________________
Phoenix

A guy opens the front door and sees a snail on his doorstep. He picks up the snail and throws it across the street in a neighbor's yard. A year later, the guy opens the front door and the same snail is on his doorstep. The snail says, "What the f*ck was that about?"

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#383209 - 01/23/12 07:03 AM Re: Should I bother trying to friend this guy? [Re: supergirl1980]
whome Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/07/11
Posts: 1734
Loc: Johannesburg South Africa
HI supergirl1980

I would caution you about getting the supergirl complex. You might now be more attracted to this man, because he is damaged.

I know therapists that have cried trying to help survivors, they are extremely damaged people. The biggest problem here is that this "Mark" chap seems to not accept the effects that CSA has on life and carries on with his acting out, drinking etc.

The best that you could do for him is to chat to his friend and ask him to give him a survivor brochure .
I will post one on my blog page for you to give to him.

Don't play the hero and give it to him or slip it into his briefcase, it will ruin his world. It must come from his friend that he has confided in.

Remember that healed survivors are really great people, so long term there might be hope, really long term.

Matrix Men Blog


Good luck
Martin

_________________________
Matrix Men South Africa
Survivors Supporting Each other
Matrix Men Blog

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#383241 - 01/23/12 04:29 PM Re: Should I bother trying to friend this guy? [Re: whome]
supergirl1980 Offline


Registered: 01/20/12
Posts: 12
Loc: Texas
Geez. I do not have any notions that I can fix him or save him in any way. I do not want to date him. I don't know how I can be clearer about that. I have a more serious love interest who totally has it together - this is the kind of guy I want!

But I am a compassionate person. My friends have given me strength to help me with my own issues (not related to CSA) and get help for them. They could not fix me but without their unconditional friendship and support I don't know where I would be.

PS Supergirl has nothing to do with me saving anyone but a screenname I've used occasionally because I'm proud of my own achievements and progress I've made in my own life. I'm sorry for people who assume anyone trying to help someone else must be "codependent" and in need of self-help books.


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#383247 - 01/23/12 05:10 PM Re: Should I bother trying to friend this guy? [Re: supergirl1980]
phoenix321 Offline


Registered: 09/26/11
Posts: 912
Loc: USA, FL
Originally Posted By: supergirl1980
Geez. I do not have any notions that I can fix him or save him in any way. I do not want to date him. I don't know how I can be clearer about that. I have a more serious love interest who totally has it together - this is the kind of guy I want!

But I am a compassionate person. My friends have given me strength to help me with my own issues (not related to CSA) and get help for them. They could not fix me but without their unconditional friendship and support I don't know where I would be.

PS Supergirl has nothing to do with me saving anyone but a screenname I've used occasionally because I'm proud of my own achievements and progress I've made in my own life. I'm sorry for people who assume anyone trying to help someone else must be "codependent" and in need of self-help books.


Supergirl,

Sorry if I upset you. I wasn't trying to be overly harsh just forceful like I would have been with my mom way back when. Did that 20-25 years ago and she still wouldn't listen. Think we all thought you meant dating. CSA is bad enough. Throw alcohol and you got a bonfire. I really have no idea how spouses get through an alcoholics recovery.

They told people I sat in AA meetings with and said no romance for 2 years. And recovery was with same sex. Casual friendships were fine but the tough recovery work was reserved for the program with same sex. AA won't give a male newbie a female sponsor due to romance issues developing because lots of deep stuff goes on with a sponsor. Vice-versa for female alcoholics. They do the same in NA (sat in those too).

The most interesting thing recovered alcoholics told me where they were master liars and manipulators because of alcohol. The 12-steps have tons of honesty and integrity building because of it. The sponsors I saw in those groups were rough. They were blunt with their brothers and sisters. I said, "you guys are rough." One 20 year member told me, "we call anyone on their bullshit. You need a sledgehammer to get through to us. We are gentle outside meetings or to someone in a crisis but tough to those who have been here awhile."

You are real compassionate for sure and have a good heart. Again, we thought this was romantic. Be a friend by all means. Just be careful about getting involved. Talking about deep stuff should be done with a T and a sponsor and in an AA meeting (with the same sex on top of it). Those people know what they are up against. It works. Saw raging alcoholics change almost overnight (a year). Seeing what went on in AA certainly changed my mind to ever even considering drinking to excess. Peace.



Edited by phoenix321 (01/23/12 05:11 PM)
_________________________
Phoenix

A guy opens the front door and sees a snail on his doorstep. He picks up the snail and throws it across the street in a neighbor's yard. A year later, the guy opens the front door and the same snail is on his doorstep. The snail says, "What the f*ck was that about?"

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#407050 - 08/17/12 02:12 AM Re: Should I bother trying to friend this guy? [Re: supergirl1980]
supergirl1980 Offline


Registered: 01/20/12
Posts: 12
Loc: Texas
Update: We've never gotten together, but we've become pretty good friends.

Last week he got arrested for soliciting prostitution. I'm so shocked and saddened, but then I remembered this thread and the warnings about the prostitutes.

I'm not trying to save him but am very afraid for him. Since he's already on probation for DUI, it will be a miracle if he doesn't go to prison. He'll lose his job in finance and won't be able to get a new one as a felon. I am slightly worried about suicide, honestly.

He doesn't know I know about the arrest. The few friends I've told say he is a loser and to run like hell, but I can't do that. I want to talk to him and tell him he cannot do this on his own, and he desperately needs therapy. Should I tell him I know what happened? Back away from him?


Edited by supergirl1980 (08/17/12 02:13 AM)

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#407056 - 08/17/12 05:20 AM Re: Should I bother trying to friend this guy? [Re: supergirl1980]
Lancer Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/13/12
Posts: 901
Loc: Florida
One thing I've liked about the 12 Steps is rigorous self honesty. Well, often I haven't liked it at the time, but that's what's worked for me.

Okay, Mark's a hottie, great personality...and fucked up.

You're not gonna like this. But what do you hope to accomplish? A romp in the sack? Yee-haw! Hey, I understand. TX/AR guys can be hot. I dunno if STDs are an influence, but even with safer sex there's still things like herpes and hep, a good possibility if he's hanging with the prosties. Oh, the romp's a nice fantasy...but keep it at that.

If you're friends are saying run like hell, well, sounds like a good indication to me.

"I'm not trying to save him but...am slightly worried about suicide...." Sounds to me like you ARE trying to save him. SLIGHTLY worried about suicide? Oh, golly, I'd say suicide is more serious than that.

"...he cannot do this on his own"? Well, until now he's done it on his own. What are you going to accomplish? Perhaps you're gonna make sure he does it RIGHT? According to whose standards? Yours? On whose schedule? Yours?

He might lose his job in finance? On this track, I'd say that's more than a definite possibility. What are you going to do to prevent it? Be with him 24/7? Sometimes hitting bottom like that, including suicide attempts, is what it takes - you'll hear it all over this board - for someone to get himself into recovery.

Not trying to save him? Well, yeah, actually sounds like you are. Then again, I could have completely misunderstood your posts. I'm not perfekt y'know.


My dad, a recovering alcoholic for 13 years until his death had a terrific way of describing his pigeons (potential AA members). He liked to say that XYZ decided to go back and do some more research. And that was fine with him. Whatever it takes.

So, maybe you need to go back and do some more research....

And when/if you're ready, perhaps hit an Al-Anon meeting where I'll bet you'll hear a lot of stories like your own:
http://www.texas-al-anon.org/

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