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#38185 - 01/29/03 09:46 PM my life
one_day_at_a_time Offline
Member

Registered: 01/03/03
Posts: 42
Loc: North Carolina
Often times when I think about what has happened to me I lose track of the many things. there was the abuse at 6 then my abuse to others at about 10. Then I remember finding the tape of my dad and my stepmom and this guy as well as a gay porn tape. I watched as my father kissed another man when I was 10 and I didnt really know what to think. I watched gay porn when I was 10 and I didnt know what was going through my mind, what was quite happening. Then all these feelings know about what exactly the hell I am gay straight bi whatever. And know I feel this I dont know what. I dont beleive im gay, I love women, and I think that what my relationship with guys has been messed up because I never feel quite guy enough. Like simply being a guy is exciting for me because im always looking at other guys like they are really guys and Im just imitating. im just getting into therapy now, but I just feel that its never going to be ok. God help me . Or at least someone.

_________________________
I found God

now I just need to find myself

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#38186 - 01/29/03 10:06 PM Re: my life
Mike Church Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 01/23/03
Posts: 3439
Loc: Toronto, Canada
HI Mike Church here. I have had a totally screwed up life too. I was abused at 16 by three guys at military college and because of some innappropriate counselling I spent 4 years on the street as a male prostitute. I was into heavy duty pain and humiliation and believe me there were plenty of customers. I was also a heroin user big time. I am 62 now and have been married for some 36 years. With the help of some of my T's I recognize that it was my own self loathing that caused me to be the way I was on the street. The self loathing was a direct result of my abuse and the fact that my body reacted in a way that made me believe that I enjoyed it. And that is what the three guys told me. I was like a trained rat. Electric shock can over time be a reward. I still have difficulty with my past and have bad times but I know now that I was not responsible and that the shame and loathing I felt for myself was given to me and I perpetuated the lie.
Try and be a little easier on yourself. If the truth were known I believe that most men play at being manly and a guy. Really it is someone who is comfortable with themeselves and is an all round nice person to everyone. That means a whole lot of so called men do not qualify.
You used the expression one day at a time. I am a card carrying member of AA and that is how it is done. Dont worry about yesterday or tomorrow just deal with today. Dont dwell on what if, if only, why me, etc. etc.
I hope this has helped a bit.
Keep in touch. You are at the right place.

_________________________
Mikey

IT REALLY IS OK TO STUMBLE. NONE OF US ARE PERFECT.

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#38187 - 01/29/03 11:40 PM Re: my life
The Dean Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 2080
Loc: Milwaukee, WI
Hi One Day at a Time,

The feeling that I am not a real man and that others are has been a stupid worry of mine for so many years. When I was in an intense program I wrote some thoughts on that as a tribute to my therapist who helping me deal with that question. I don't know if it would help you or not. I will try to put a link to it here.

I really believe we have a lot of mixed up ideas about manhood and manliness. It drains us at times. But after going through the things we went through and not dropping out of life completely--I tend to think that survivors are very much real men.

You have survived a lot of wretched stuff. You surely are a srong man. And it takes a lot of courage to come here and open up like you did. Do you know how many men in our world could NEVER do what you just did? Millions!

You are a good guy.

Bob

_________________________
If we do not live what we believe, then we will begin to believe what we live.

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#38188 - 01/29/03 11:46 PM Re: my life
The Dean Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 2080
Loc: Milwaukee, WI
Sorry, I forgot the link

All it might do is let you know that others of us have felt the same way.

Bob

http://www.malesurvivor.org/cgii-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=000072

_________________________
If we do not live what we believe, then we will begin to believe what we live.

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#38189 - 01/30/03 01:40 AM Re: my life
Don-NY Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/06/02
Posts: 546
Loc: Long Island, NY
Bob (and all),

You made a typo in your link (cgii-local). We're going to have to have a class on "Cut and Paste" - it's much easier than typing a URL like this. \:D

Anyway, I'm pretty sure this link is what you wanted:

http://www.malesurvivor.org/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=000072


Donald

_________________________
If you understand everything, some things are just as they are. If you understand nothing, things are still just as they are.

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#38190 - 01/30/03 08:33 AM Re: my life
guy43 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/17/02
Posts: 450
Loc: Minnesota
One-Day and all:

I didn't have any good role models growing up to show me what being a man means. I wonder how much my not-so-healthy view of manliness has been formed by Madison Ave. and the media/entertainment industry. I've often felt a keen need, even now at 43, for a ritual rite of passage from boyhood into manhood. However, that would imply a community of men defining what it does mean to be "a man". I suspect that many of those powerful, self-assured, know where they're going type of men are secretly tortured by their own insecurities and the need to maintain their outer image of the he-man.

It begs the question of what is a man in today's society, especially in our western culture. Then, add in the confusion of sexual orientation questions due to SA... some answers can be found here in this discusion board. Some answers lie within us as we define being a man.

Bob, your tribute is inspiring to me. Thanks for posting it.

A quick lesson for cut n pasting for Windoze users \:\)

- highlight the text or url
- right click and select copy or press ctrl-c to copy the highlighted item. this copies it into the windows clipboard.
- right click and select paste or press ctrl-v to paste the copied item into the desired location.


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#38191 - 01/30/03 12:55 PM Re: my life
MrEdd Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/24/03
Posts: 317
Loc: Texas
I feel the same way. Even beating the crap out of jerks in Okinawan back alleys until the batallion Sergeant Major reigned me in didn't make me feel like I was really a man.

_________________________
Some Things are not problems to be solved, rather, they are facts which must be coped with over time.

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#38192 - 01/30/03 01:01 PM Re: my life
Sleepy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 288
Loc: Arizona, USA
Jer,
I've been reading your posts for the past couple of months and, boy, can I relate to a lot of what you write. Your comments about the media/entertainment industry reminds me of a conversation I recently had with my old college roommate. What we talked about was how our generation (gen-X, but I hate labels like that) was perhaps the first generation to be raised in a surrogate world of 24-hour cable TV, the Nintendo, and blockbuster big-screen movies. My parents never provided me any strong developmental guidance and so they certainly didn't discourage me from indulging in this. As a result I kind of grew up in this make believe, digitally-enhanced world. What struck me during the conversation was that my roommate has some friends that suffer from many of my issues, though they never experienced any SA that we know of. Emotionally we never developed a healthy sense of who we really are. In a strange way we all had a severly delayed adolesence, though with me the SA really compounds the problems. I've been left with a perverted sense of attraction towards my sister, a lot of confusion about my sexual orientation, and a longing to be accepted by this archetypal sense of manliness and male brotherhood. Anyway, there is more I could write about this but I will end it here.
mike

_________________________
"It is good to have an end to journey toward; but it is the journey that matters, in the end."
--Ursula K. Le Guin

"Mental health is a commitment to reality at all times."
--M. Scott Peck

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#38193 - 01/30/03 02:17 PM Re: my life
RJD Offline
Member

Registered: 02/18/01
Posts: 326
Loc: jefferson City, Mo,usa
Hello all,
The discussion here resonates with my experience too. Never feeling man enough, and how that applies to everyday living, is a part of every breath I take. I often wonder how some men can can just go about life with the basic sense of themselves as a man, and not have reason to doubt their measure.

I also know intellectually that I was born with the biological equipment that defines my gender.

Somehow being a man in our culture is given an illusive quality that only a few of us are allowed to wear. I think corporate/superficial machismo only trades on this entitlement and fosters a sense of scarcity, making it a rare pelt to don. I think the so called "Men's Movement" was severely ridiculed because it challanged the limited definition that prevails. Wall Street would stand to lose a whole marketing strategy, so it resists. It was also rideculed by some feminists, both men and women. There was resistance to even the notion of male victimization, though not at its beginnings.

I agree with Bob, we are a new definition of warriors challanging our own inner male psyche to change the inhuman restrictions that have been imposed on us. We travel a path that few men have dared, for fear of losing what remnants of shreded masculinity remains. What man would dare to challange the "boy code," if he could at all costs avoid it. The expression "chosen" path here is a misnomer. The path we take, is a path taken out of necessity, and it takes an incredable feat of almost superhuman courage to plod through. By taking this new path we reweave the fabric grid of what is called masculinity.


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#38194 - 01/30/03 08:36 PM Re: my life
The Dean Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 2080
Loc: Milwaukee, WI
Some books by Michael Gurian are inspiring to read about boys--and thus men.
A FINE YOUNG MAN
THE GOOD SON

There is a companion book about girls but I forget the name. I bouight all of these through our MS bookstore. Type in his name and all his books come up on the MS Amazon site.

Bob

_________________________
If we do not live what we believe, then we will begin to believe what we live.

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