Newest Members
journey4two, VASurvivor, jayceemac, rwolf, FindingNemo
12328 Registered Users
Today's Birthdays
cja (49), crackerjack (55), nursemanda25 (33)
Who's Online
6 registered (traveler, bluesky, Doubter, 3 invisible), 15 Guests and 4 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
12328 Members
74 Forums
63403 Topics
443287 Posts

Max Online: 418 @ 07/02/12 07:29 AM
Twitter
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >
Topic Options
#381482 - 01/05/12 06:14 AM Am I a perp too?
Staying Sane Offline


Registered: 11/29/11
Posts: 28
Loc: Iowa
Man, I just had the craziest memory today. I feel so terrible about it. Just wondering what some of the others here feel about this....

We had moved away from the place where my CSA happened to another state. I remember that my sister and I, and two other girls (who were younger than us both) used to all stay at our house together after school until all the parents got home.

I think I must have been about 11-12 at this time but I am not entirely sure. Either way, the memory that came flooding back with feelings of wanting to cut off every appendage on my body goes like this:

We were just playing around, doing normal kids stuff. The youngest girl (maybe 5 or 6 at the time) was standing on my feet and I was bouncing her. As she was bouncing up, her upper body was bending forward and her shirt sagged down revealing bare skin. I can't really tell you why, but I looked. And she saw that I looked. And she said "You're trying to look down my shirt!" and ran away from me.

I remember feeling so scared that she was going to tell and I was going to be accused of being a pedophile. I wanted to die at the time. I wasn't a creeper of a kid or anything. This is the only memory that I have of doing anything remotely like that. I guess it really explains my severe discomfort to be around children to this day. I am so scared that something I will do gets taken the wrong way. I would never want to hurt a fly, let alone a poor innocent child.

Yet to think that in some way I may have caused this young girl anywhere close to the feelings that I have experienced is tearing me up inside right now. Yet another example of feeling ugly, and a bad person.

So am I a perp to her too? Ugh, disgusting!!

_________________________
My Story

Top
#381483 - 01/05/12 07:46 AM Re: Am I a perp too? [Re: Staying Sane]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6401
Loc: 2.5 NATO Nations
Originally Posted By: Staying Sane

So am I a perp to her too? Ugh, disgusting!!


NO..you are not!

It sounds like it was an accidental view where you had to "see what you thought you were seeing." Its interesting though...she reacted with proper and very healthy boundaries...didn't she.

Why? Because you did not coerce her. You did not groom her with segments of a novel (as was done to you). You did not initiate game-play as a boundary-breaker.

You were not a boundary-breaker because you were and very very likely ARE not a pedo for those very reasons. A chance encounter like that was policed by her in the proper manner. She kept herself safe from what/whom she thought was a present threat. I applaud her for that and I applaud YOU for your reaction given that your boundaries were so readily broken and abused.

If you need to look-up the pedo definitions, go ahead, but you'll see that there are qualifiers to wearing that scarlet label. 1) You need to be sexually aroused and/OR attracted by/to children (it does not necessarily require that you act upon the attraction with children).

2) You get the "perp" tattoo if you act on it with anyone you ought not.

So from what you are describing...NO...you are not a perp.

Isn't it too bad we don't deal with these things when they are fresh?

It sounds to me like you are not only a good guy Sane, but you also recognize boundaries even though yours were pulled-away.

_________________________
Wishing You Were Here!

The Aftermath Video

The Water Buffalo Song

Top
#381487 - 01/05/12 08:07 AM Re: Am I a perp too? [Re: Staying Sane]
Dar Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/15/11
Posts: 170
Loc: Missouri
Staying Sane,
I am sorry that you feel this way. You shouldn't.
You were 12 years old and you looked at her bare skin, just like every other pre teen and teenager would have done.
She was a child just like you were. You didnt run after her and try to do something to her. You felt remorse because of what happened to you. Nothing more nothing less.
For that little girl to even say something like that was beyond her age of thinking. Her parents or someone told her that that was bad and she reacted to that. NOT YOUR FAULT.
I feel sorry for the girl that she brought up that way, being scared of boys. I wonder how she feels now a days since she grew up. I mean, men stare a boobs and bare skin on people all the time. that doesnt make them perps and you arent either.
Hell, at 12 to 13 years old, I was excided when the wind blew. It is what teens do,they look and get feelings of excitment. Hormones my friend, it happens to us all at that age.
Heck at 52 years old if I see a nip slip on a woman I am going to look and I just bet that most men would do the same.

So are you a perp? NO NO NO

_________________________
All I ever wanted was a hug.

Top
#381488 - 01/05/12 08:13 AM Re: Am I a perp too? [Re: Staying Sane]
phoenix321 Offline


Registered: 09/26/11
Posts: 912
Loc: USA, FL
No. You looked at a girl's ass. You didn't touch! Everybody I knew did that in school. If I see a nice ass today, I look at it. Not girls under 18 on purpose for sure, but everyone else. I'm more a boob man, Say I saw a nice ass in the mall and the girl was 16. I wouldn't feel bad. It's a look. Heck, it's an unconscious thing for men to look at a nice ass, or boobs, etc. As long as you don't linger (especially if she's under 18), you're cool. Girls do wear clothes so you'll look on purpose you know. Never knew a girl that wore skin tight jeans or a thong then was upset someone looked. Looking is one thing, ogling is another. Dude, you got some conscience there. That's a good thing.

_________________________
Phoenix

A guy opens the front door and sees a snail on his doorstep. He picks up the snail and throws it across the street in a neighbor's yard. A year later, the guy opens the front door and the same snail is on his doorstep. The snail says, "What the f*ck was that about?"

Top
#381489 - 01/05/12 08:17 AM Re: Am I a perp too? [Re: phoenix321]
phoenix321 Offline


Registered: 09/26/11
Posts: 912
Loc: USA, FL
When guys discover girls (and Mr. Happy) at 10/11/12, they look at any girl. I did. If a guy says he didn't, he's lying.

_________________________
Phoenix

A guy opens the front door and sees a snail on his doorstep. He picks up the snail and throws it across the street in a neighbor's yard. A year later, the guy opens the front door and the same snail is on his doorstep. The snail says, "What the f*ck was that about?"

Top
#381500 - 01/05/12 10:40 AM Re: Am I a perp too? [Re: phoenix321]
ralphyk Offline


Registered: 01/04/12
Posts: 9
Loc: United States
I'm new to this board and hadn't really thought I'd be posting so soon, but I hate to see you torturing yourself over this.

What happened was perfectly natural and normal. We're wired this way. Someone cuts me off while driving in my car, my immediate response may be to want to ram that other driver off the road. But as a healthy adult, I know that primitive response comes from my selfish, animalistic soul. Hopefully, we're also in touch with the part of us that tells us this behavior is wrong -- the part of us that connects with a higher value, with what is healthy, moral and right.

Clearly, that part of you was and is functioning extremely well. In fact, I'd guess that it is hyper-aware of these types of situations because of your history of being abused. I know it is with me. You looked at the girl because you're a normal person. What isn't normal is the inability of abusers to recognize their behavior as inappropriate or destructive -- or to simply not care about anyone else but themselves.


Top
#381504 - 01/05/12 10:47 AM Re: Am I a perp too? [Re: ralphyk]
Staying Sane Offline


Registered: 11/29/11
Posts: 28
Loc: Iowa
Well, that isn't the responses that I thought I was going to get. I have been torturing myself. I can't bear the idea of being hurtful to another kid that way.

In fact, since I have started this whole process of "dealing with it," I have barely been able to look at a young boy without feeling like I just want to give them a hug and tell them that they are great!

Weirdly enough, writing that and seeing it even seems a little weird to me. Almost a little creepy/pedo even. Man that is just such a warped sense of boundaries on my part. Because you know what!?!?

It's not creepy! It is exactly what we wanted someone to do to us. To love us, and tell us we were great without some kind of ulterior motive (sex). I just want to do that for every little boy that I meet. Hug him, tell him he's great and to never, ever forget that no matter what else happens.

Thanks to all for talking me off the ledge. I feel a little better about the bad memory.

_________________________
My Story

Top
#381516 - 01/05/12 11:53 AM Re: Am I a perp too? [Re: Staying Sane]
Jim1104 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/16/11
Posts: 407
Loc: Louisiana, USA
Glad you listened to the other guys. For what it's worth, I agree totally with them.

_________________________
Jim
Male/USA

Top
#381525 - 01/05/12 01:44 PM Re: Am I a perp too? [Re: Jim1104]
Sailor John Offline


Registered: 10/04/11
Posts: 307
Loc: Newfoundland & Labrador
Hi Staying Sane,

I also agree completely with the other posts. Once we reach 11, 12 years old, puberty usually sets in as we all know; some people maybe a little later. We all "hated" girls before that, remember!!!, then the hormones kicked in and we couldn't stop looking especially a good looking one. What you did is 100% natural and besides you didn't do anything else. You acted like any normal "boy-man" would. The girl is probably laughing at that now-a-days. DON'T WORRY ABOUT IT

_________________________
I will mourn the teenager I never was and strive to make that dot of light way out in the far reaches of the end of the tunnel turn into a bright sun.

WE ARE NOT VICTIMS. WE ARE THE SURVIVORS!!!

Top
#381526 - 01/05/12 01:53 PM Re: Am I a perp too? [Re: Jim1104]
Castle Offline


Registered: 10/03/09
Posts: 727
Loc: NJ
I think not.

More importantly I spoke to a friend and asked his permission to tell this little tidbit...I think it sorta fits in and is very important for people to hear and discuss and if not, sorry to post it on your thread.

A friend whom was in a very abusive home, sexually, physically all that stuff...some really horrible shit (not minimizing anybody elses shit), who incidentally grew up in Iowa, was talking about his brother who passed. His brother left his family and chldren without a word to them why and such...Lots of regrets to that Im sure...so hes dying and this friend is in the hospital with his brother and finally talks to him abuot the abuse in the home, discloses his own abuse, and unfortunatly didnt want T or deal at all until it was too late....anywho....they are talking and it comes to why did he leave his family and his response hits me like a ton of bricks about how aweful this shit effects us...his answer "I didn't know when I would start to hurt my chidren, so I rather not be there and left" Hiding the awefullness of his truth effected his family and his children because of his perp father.

I think this mentality and the myths have hurt so many men , and I hope for the future we can work though this stuff and see thats sometimes we have to take a step back and see things for what they really are.

Bad shit happened to us, were very afraid, and rightfully so about how the myths effect us.

Breath a little easier today, and go gentle on yourself.

_________________________

My posts can self destruct at any time..read them while you can.

Top
#381527 - 01/05/12 02:15 PM Re: Am I a perp too? [Re: Castle]
ralphyk Offline


Registered: 01/04/12
Posts: 9
Loc: United States
I have kids. But before I did, I was in a panic about having a son. I was terrified of being a father to a boy. I had absolutely no idea why. It just felt incredibly unsafe to me.

Now, looking back, it comes as no surprise given my own relationship with my father. Though my relationship with my son has been one of the greatest gifts in my life, I catch myself withdrawing from his innocent physical closeness -- because of how dangerous and threatening it still feels to have someone close to me. When I catch myself, I try to breathe and allow myself to be there with him. What happened to me was long ago. I don't want it to rob my son of a father who can hold his child.


Top
#381529 - 01/05/12 02:39 PM Re: Am I a perp too? [Re: ralphyk]
Castle Offline


Registered: 10/03/09
Posts: 727
Loc: NJ
Ralph,

I hope you can work through some of that stuff, it can be very healing for you, and your love is he greatest gift you can give...most survivors never perpetrate...please talk to T about this, its super important to both of you.

Best,
H

_________________________

My posts can self destruct at any time..read them while you can.

Top
#381534 - 01/05/12 03:11 PM Re: Am I a perp too? [Re: Castle]
ralphyk Offline


Registered: 01/04/12
Posts: 9
Loc: United States
Thanks, Castle. I'm in therapy now with a therapist I very much trust. I went in with a very specific non-abuse issue. I'd been in therapy before and I attended SIA meetings in NY, but that was over ten years ago. I thought I'd put the abuse stuff behind. My T has allowed me to see how much of my life is still affected by the abuse. Which led me here.

The hard part for me has not been a conscious fear of perpetrating. It's been the recognition of how uncomfortable and unsafe I feel with physical closeness -- my son will jump into my lap and I feel like I've been attacked! -- and how it's led me to push him away.

I do know that a lot of normal situations become sexualized and threatening to me. A woman is friendly to me and I'm panicking it's going lead to something sexual so I withdraw. Until recently, I just thought I was the kind of person who enjoyed being by himself. I had absolutely no idea of the dynamic at play or how much the abuse has left me isolated.


Top
#381572 - 01/05/12 07:20 PM Re: Am I a perp too? [Re: ralphyk]
Castle Offline


Registered: 10/03/09
Posts: 727
Loc: NJ
Your taking steps to make a change in a safe enviorment...Good for you, I wish you success...It certainly is hurtful, confusing and brings on anger when the reminants of abuse effect the act of recieving and giving love to our children.

I wish you luck on your journey.

_________________________

My posts can self destruct at any time..read them while you can.

Top
#381626 - 01/06/12 01:55 AM Re: Am I a perp too? [Re: Staying Sane]
WriterKeith Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/30/10
Posts: 945
Loc: southern California
SS, "no, you're not," for the 100th time if it helps!

A professional may state it better, but I believe there is a distinct difference between normal pre-adolescent curiosity and forced violation. Likewise, there is a difference in flirtation and unwelcome advances between adults.

_________________________
"A burned bridge can be a gift; it prevents us from returning to a place we should have never been."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JfvAPZGjds

Top
#381627 - 01/06/12 02:03 AM Re: Am I a perp too? [Re: WriterKeith]
Staying Sane Offline


Registered: 11/29/11
Posts: 28
Loc: Iowa
It does help. Thanks! smile

I agree there is a difference. My particular problem is that my perp was approximately 12-13 while I was 6-7. Very close to the ages that this experience happened to me, except I was the older one with the "power."

I shouldn't have done it. And as a response to some of the other comments, yeah, it's not weird to check out a 16 year old. But a 5 year old....that's creeper territory.

But, I like the point Robbie made earlier. She showed healthy boundaries in the situation. I was hypersensitive to the possibility that something I did was super wrong. Bad combination and something I suppose she has forgotten long ago. (At least that is my hope and prayer)

_________________________
My Story

Top
#381645 - 01/06/12 09:37 AM Re: Am I a perp too? [Re: Staying Sane]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6401
Loc: 2.5 NATO Nations
SS,

If I did not make it clear before, I commend you for your "reaction of character." That abused boy could have done otherwise...could have reacted with indifference. You didn't though. You showed concern for her and the situation.

I don't think this incident treads anywhere near a pre-adolescent's curiosity. Not at all. It was a chance-event that ended exactly the way it should have and nothing more.

Be aware, I'm speaking from the perspective of having been used by older boys. I was 7 and they were 12. What THEY were doing was or would have been considered sexual curiosity and "things that happen among children," except it went on for 7 years and was nothing but pure rape and no euphemistic bull-shit, excuse-qualified, psycho-babble. So, I feel as if I have license to condemn the adolescent offender. You are in no way at fault.

I'm more than a little freaked by many/most of the replies here. I'm truly hoping that those who basically said "get some," did not notice she was only 5yo?????

_________________________
Wishing You Were Here!

The Aftermath Video

The Water Buffalo Song

Top
#381708 - 01/06/12 08:32 PM Re: Am I a perp too? [Re: Staying Sane]
Bert DMA Offline
Greeter
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 12/09/11
Posts: 11
Loc: New York and Japan
No.

_________________________
Bert DMA: Doctor of Musical Arts

Top
#381733 - 01/07/12 02:28 AM Re: Am I a perp too? [Re: Still]
Staying Sane Offline


Registered: 11/29/11
Posts: 28
Loc: Iowa
Originally Posted By: Robbie Brown


I'm more than a little freaked by many/most of the replies here. I'm truly hoping that those who basically said "get some," did not notice she was only 5yo?????


Umm....yeah. I kinda felt the same way. I was hoping they just read the post wrong or something. Anything sexual at 5 years old is NEVER ok IMO.

And thanks again Rob. I'm a new guy here and I really admire your taking a leader type role to others on the site. Thanks for all you do.



Edited by Staying Sane (01/07/12 02:28 AM)
_________________________
My Story

Top
#381736 - 01/07/12 02:56 AM Re: Am I a perp too? [Re: Staying Sane]
kinghenri Offline


Registered: 05/06/09
Posts: 214
Loc: Tucson Arizona
You're not a perp man. I understand the fear of being close to children though.
Every guy here does.

_________________________
"In my life, I have seen,
People walk into the sea,
Just to find memories,
Plagued by constant misery,
Their eyes cast down,
Fixed upon the ground,
Their eyes cast down

I'll keep my eyes fixed on the sun"

Top
#381754 - 01/07/12 01:26 PM Re: Am I a perp too? [Re: kinghenri]
Mark1981 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/22/11
Posts: 17
Originally Posted By: kinghenri
You're not a perp man. I understand the fear of being close to children though.
Every guy here does.


Wow. I don't see it talked about... but... yeah I guess that's true. Wow.


Top
#381755 - 01/07/12 01:36 PM Re: Am I a perp too? [Re: kinghenri]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6401
Loc: 2.5 NATO Nations
Originally Posted By: kinghenri
You're not a perp man. I understand the fear of being close to children though.
Every guy here does.


Any of ya'll hate it when a kid talks to you? I do...even the ones I've known for many years. The only exception is my own kids.

_________________________
Wishing You Were Here!

The Aftermath Video

The Water Buffalo Song

Top
#381772 - 01/07/12 09:38 PM Re: Am I a perp too? [Re: Still]
RollerCoaster Offline


Registered: 10/23/11
Posts: 47
Loc: PA, USA
** Trigger Warning**

SS,

I can relate very closely to your situation. I have a similar guilt till date and maybe it has started to fade away when I discussed this with my T. But I dont know. Here is my story:

I was 10 at that time(before my CSA ) and one night I was sleeping beside my sister(she was 12 at that time). I randomly woke up during the night and out of curiosity slipped my hands in her pants and felt her vagina. I did that 2-3 times. I remember that I was just curious. After that I did something very horrible, which I have no explanation for - i took some spit out of my mouth and put into hers. This sounds very weird and am very ashamed to why I did it. I have no reason why I did it. After that I just kept laying and couldn't sleep. After an hour, my sister woke up and she asked me to lay on top of her. I did that. I asked her back to lay on top of me. All clothed. We did that a couple of times. That was it. Next day we briefly talked about it and never discussed it again.

This incident changed my whole life. I felt an enormous shame and guilt inside me from the next day on. I have been super nice to my sister and all other girls I have ever met. I discussed this with my T, and she said it was due to curiosity. I understand this in my head, but my heart still doesn't understand. Another thing that I am worried is whether I affected her life as someone else affected mine. This almost breaks my heart. I don't know what to do, only thing I do is being nice to her and to other people, so I don't break any more hearts.


Top
#381777 - 01/07/12 11:03 PM Re: Am I a perp too? [Re: Staying Sane]
phoenix321 Offline


Registered: 09/26/11
Posts: 912
Loc: USA, FL
Originally Posted By: Staying Sane
Originally Posted By: Robbie Brown


I'm more than a little freaked by many/most of the replies here. I'm truly hoping that those who basically said "get some," did not notice she was only 5yo?????


Umm....yeah. I kinda felt the same way. I was hoping they just read the post wrong or something. Anything sexual at 5 years old is NEVER ok IMO.

And thanks again Rob. I'm a new guy here and I really admire your taking a leader type role to others on the site. Thanks for all you do.


I didn't say, "get some." Just to make that clear. Boys and men are visual creatures. Looking is unconscious a lot of times. It's the lingering part that's wrong. Hope that clears that up. I don't go looking on purpose even at adults. Sheesh! People take too much shit the wrong f--ing way.

_________________________
Phoenix

A guy opens the front door and sees a snail on his doorstep. He picks up the snail and throws it across the street in a neighbor's yard. A year later, the guy opens the front door and the same snail is on his doorstep. The snail says, "What the f*ck was that about?"

Top
#381778 - 01/08/12 12:56 AM Re: Am I a perp too? [Re: Staying Sane]
jls Offline


Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 1142
Perpetrators avoid responsibility for their actions and do nothing but make excuses so the very fact that you feel the need to analyze your sexual behaviour, even from a time when you were still a child yourself and did nothing harmful to that little girl, proves you are the farthest thing from being a perpetrator.

_________________________
Love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world.


Top
#381789 - 01/08/12 10:30 AM Re: Am I a perp too? [Re: Still]
lapchinj Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/07/11
Posts: 1181
Loc: New York
Peace,Rainbows & Healing


Edited by lapchinj (03/17/13 11:46 PM)
_________________________
Stick around, It will get better....

Top
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >


Moderator:  ModTeam, TJ jeff 

I agree that my access and use of the MaleSurvivor discussion forums and chat room is subject to the terms of this Agreement. AND the sole discretion of MaleSurvivor.
I agree that my use of MaleSurvivor resources are AT-WILL, and that my posting privileges may be terminated at any time, and for any reason by MaleSurvivor.