Newest Members
TheGreatWhat, MyNameIsPaul, serenity38, vivo, Laurie
12485 Registered Users
Today's Birthdays
era1 (31), GregoryP (50), GregoryParcell (50), junior (54), KDW78 (36), nansogre (48)
Who's Online
4 registered (OCN, Scott1962, 2 invisible), 27 Guests and 4 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
12485 Members
74 Forums
64148 Topics
447575 Posts

Max Online: 418 @ 07/02/12 07:29 AM
Twitter
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >
Topic Options
#381031 - 12/30/11 10:42 AM First time acting on SSA
Doubter Offline


Registered: 12/26/11
Posts: 15
Loc: Alabama USA
Though I know I am not gay I have always had some level of ssa but have never acted on it. I'm nearly 50 now and thinking I might be cheating myself out something I might enjoy if i don't try it at some point. Conversely, I'm afraid if I try it and it doesn't go well I will feel like shit. Now I'm reading that my ssa may be caused by my csa, but I do remember some ssa before all that happened. I guess I'm confused.
I guess what I'm curious about is for those that have gone "all the way" so to speak, what was it like for you?
Good, Bad, Meh...

_________________________
I can't explain you would not understand
This is not how I am.
I have become comfortably numb.

Top
#381032 - 12/30/11 11:23 AM Re: First time acting on SSA [Re: Doubter]
Mountainous Buck Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/15/09
Posts: 1626
Loc: Minnesota
Hey Doubter,

I don't recommend it until you have some healing and recovery around your basic brokenness.

You shared when you got here that "I have never been able to maintain an intimate relationship with anyone and I am only really comfortable when I'm alone."

In the absence of safe, supportive, nurturing relationships, in my experience, sex will not resolve the intimacy or basic discomfort you have around others.

My SSA is related to my CSA, and the SAA was also fed by some deep father wounds from the family environment I grew up in. My mother's attitudes about heterosexuality also influenced my sexuality in negative ways-in a twisted way, my acting on SSA resolved the issues I had with shame about wanting to be sexual with women to begin with.

I didn't have good ways to connect with other males, and my abuse at the hands of some teen boys when I was 9 certainly introduced a number of things into my psyche which I isolated and spent years wrestling unsuccessfully on my own.

Only in the past several years have I faced these issues head-on and questioned my behavior, owned my struggles, and asked lots of questions of people who are qualified thru experience or training to share their insights.

What was it like for me? There is adrenaline which made me feel alive, then repulsion which made me feel shameful (again, tied to the abuse), then a compulsion to act out again sexually. Sex wasn't really joyful or affirming when I acted out with other males-but that is my personal experience.

Porn, too, distorted my view of sexuality and tainted my sexual interactions until I walked away from it 9 1/2 years ago. I have to avoid unhealthy, isolative demonstrations of sexuality and embrace connection with my self and my partner as part of healthy expression.

We all have our own unique, individual sexuality. As survivors, this was shut down, robbed, dislocated, and damaged.

Our job in recovery is to walk thru the fear and shame and build connection and support to become who we were truly meant to be in this world. I spent decades lost and not knowing myself, and have the joy of getting off that crazy track and going deep into myself and my pain to let that out and then, under it all, discover healthy, affirming sexuality that expresses love and builds me up.

Keep reading about healing from sexual abuse and reaching out, asking questions, journaling, and walking thru this. If you haven't gotten some of the books listed here on MS, the Resources pages area GREAT place to start.

PS: I love the Pink Floyd reference in your tag line: that is one of the songs on my workout list. It touches a very lonely and despairing chord inside me.



Edited by Mountainous Buck (12/30/11 11:28 AM)
_________________________
We have to take responsibility for what we're not responsible for.

“It doesn't matter where you've come from,
It matters where you go" Frank Turner

Top
#381037 - 12/30/11 11:59 AM Re: First time acting on SSA [Re: Mountainous Buck]
KMCINVA Offline
Greeter
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 1778
My T and psychiatrist says SSA can occur as a way to recreate or re enact the abuse for which the child had no control over and through recreating the act they believe they can control the outcome. The child has felt he was not in control over the abuse or how his body reacted-it is a fantasy if you control you won't be hurt. But in the end it does not work because as a child the male body may have had sexual feelings or arousal that confused the young child's mind-the experience has been sexualized. The SSA does not define your sexual identity but rather is a way for the mind to try to rationalize and accept the pain and control the abuse.


Top
#381054 - 12/30/11 06:20 PM Re: First time acting on SSA [Re: Doubter]
1lifenow Offline


Registered: 03/07/11
Posts: 412
Loc: west coast
D

There are a lot of things going for you. Its never easy to figure things out when csa is part of the equation.

There is compelling evidence that orientation is hard wired or at least one is predisposed to it, a str8 person rarely questions why they are str8. But there is more than just simple genetics at play, there can be epigenetics( way too complicated for a simple explanation), imprinting and even hormonal effects when your mother was pregnant. There are some physical characteristics that are more common in gay men, such as the hair swirl, ave penis size , finger length and the connections between the brain hemispheres( I think its what give gay men that eye for detail most str8 guys havent a clue about)

There is also compelling scientific evedence that pheromome or smell arousal response is wired into the brain as is arousal to visual stimulation( usually gay porn will arouse mostly gay or bi men and do little for str8 ment). But when these brain changes occur is not possible to say. So the best evidence is sexual orientation is likely hard wired with some influences of nuturing even pre-birth( the more older brothers you have the more likely your gay). Having said that , there are always exceptions, one of my best friends oldest brother is gay so there is really no one specific conclussion. Humans are way too complicated for a simple thing like sexual orientation to be left to the basis of one thing.

However when you stated that there was some SSA b4 the abuse suggests you were already at least bi. Again recent evidence shows that some can be attracted to both, with many studies that suggest the intensity of the arousal is usually more geared to one sex over the other- there is usually and answer to the question, who would you rather?. But in a pinch any harbor in a storm will do,lol.

The question then becomes what are you looking for. Is it just a bucket list thing, well rock on bro. If its to find out if that attraction is more than just a whim , well i guess there is only one way to find out. I would encourage you that if you take that route, try to find a situation that is about intimacy not just robotic sex, that is rarely satisfying whether ur str8, bi or gay.

For me, I thot i was bi, i had some experiences when i was younger but they were aweful. That convinced me i was not gay. But the SSA did not lessen, it was the opposite. It was not until a really nice guy truly made love to me that i knew. It was the kiss to be honest. Passionate , intense, real - like freakin fireworks. You say that you are just curious , but are you prepared for that. I was not. It messed me up bad.

I would encourage you to talk to your T about this and the possible outcomes and their meaning b4 you enbark on this quest. You don't want to feel like shit whatever the outcome.

There are no simple answers, everyones experience( biases, cultural and religious factors, your relationship status now). All these are huge and will affect your perception and expectations. At the same time, if I would have never known, i would never finally have been able to find the peace of mind I now experience. I love being able to breath, smile, laugh with no subtext or pre-tense. And it turns out purple is my favourite colour. Go figure.

I wish you well

grant

ps I saw the original WALL concert in england so so long ago. Mind blowing. But having gone thru this whole process I am no longer numb.

_________________________
The need for love lies at the very foundation of human existence. Dalai Lama

WoR Barrie 2011

Top
#381103 - 12/31/11 08:09 AM Re: First time acting on SSA [Re: 1lifenow]
EdfromNYC Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/18/10
Posts: 233
Loc: New York City
I want to reply to the "scientific" citations in your post. All of those findings may or may not be replicated in another study so they are just some studies. I've read them, too. I would suggest counter studies to give some context.

Here's my take on SSA and predisposition. Its like autism. There are many factors that can lead one further into an autistic life and there are many factors which can lead one into a more interactive/less autistic life. Obviously, one has physical/physiological things going on if one is autistic - like the study above that speaks of hormones within the mother that may or may not be true. So lets say there is some physiological factors at play.

Just like an autistic child can be supported and aided to live a more fulfilling life that is outwardly directed and interactive with others, so can an-SSA leaning child be supported and aided to live a more fulfilling life that is directed to being secure in his boyhood and not sexualizing other men and constantly searching for self in other men.

I agree that there are probably physical/emotional characteristics that many SSA men share but in my experience acting on it didn't ever truly and deeply satisfy me or my psyche. I would say that I have many of the characteristics of a typical SSA but I understand what is at its core and I treat it as disordered thinking and know that, like autism or other disordered thinking, it doesn't run my life anymore - its like an echo that I hear sometimes and other times its really far awqy.

My comparison with autism may seem trite or not a perfect comparison but its less offensive than other comparisons. I also have to be careful to say that my experience isn't necessarily the right way to do things and that other men may find different paths for themselves and it is not for me to say that they are wrong. Its about finding my own path.

I don't agree with the idea that since there was SSA prior to the abuse suggests that you are/were bi. I had SSA prior to the abuse and that SSA is what led me to be in a position to be abused. My SSA was a definite factor in my being abused. It had nothing to do with being bi or even sexual for that matter. My SSA had to do with seeing men as "other" than me due to a lot of factors, both external and internal, and it led to a man abusing me sexually. I was exactly the right kind of kid to be abused due to my longing for a man to pay attention to me. I held men in awe and I was incredibly attracted to them but it was because I was so diminished in my sense of self as a boy that I was so warped and out of balance that I was ripe for abuse (unless I had found the right men to help me see myself as a boy and then a man).

Doubter, good for you to post about it and think about it. The fact you are thinking about it and writing about it seems good. I don't advocate either way. Its for you to knowingly decide what to do and to see what you feel, either way. Maybe it wouldn't be an either/or situation as in either it will be fulfilling or you will feel like shit: maybe it would simply be a learning experience.

Like MountainousBuck said above, its about "building connection and support". I would ask myself is this action going to help me build connections and support.



Edited by EdfromNYC (12/31/11 08:15 AM)
_________________________
And more, much more, the heart may feel,
Than the pen may write or the lip reveal.
Winthrop Mackworth Praed

Top
#381136 - 12/31/11 05:39 PM Re: First time acting on SSA [Re: EdfromNYC]
Doubter Offline


Registered: 12/26/11
Posts: 15
Loc: Alabama USA
You guys have given me some great replies and plenty of food for thought. I definitely won't rush in to anything, and if I do decide to go ahead with anything, it will be on my own terms. I'm hoping there will be some more discussion on this thread.

_________________________
I can't explain you would not understand
This is not how I am.
I have become comfortably numb.

Top
#381168 - 01/01/12 08:57 AM Re: First time acting on SSA [Re: Doubter]
westchesterguy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/13/09
Posts: 421
Loc: Westchester County NY
Originally Posted By: Doubter
... I'm curious about is for those that have gone "all the way" so to speak, what was it like for you?
Good, Bad, Meh...


interesting topic.

what exactly do you mean by going "all the way"?

what exactly does same sex attraction mean for you?

is this about (to use a very simple example) going to a gay bar and getting off with some guy in a dark corner? or is it about sharing some deep, emotional feeling that you have for a very close and life-long male friend? or something else entirely?

while i haven't mentioned this in any recent post, i'll reiterate my view on male sexuality for clarity here and that i do not believe in "identity confusion" or gay or straight or any other label to describe "me" or "men" other than to just say we are very sexual beings by nature. society demands we declare our specific identity and stick with it, and in my view that is extremely unhealthy.

now since you asked about the experiences of others, i can say that i recognize what i think is a sexy guy... probably 70% of that attraction is his spirit/confidence and where he is at (i.e. being in touch with his feelings but not pretending perfection), and his level of vulnerability. the remainder is probably just physical (hey, brad pitt is hot lol). however, none of these factors alone necessarily mean i desire to set up house with him -- needs more, needs a spark, needs fire and passion.

i have been deeply in love with other guys - some of that was purely paternal, some definitely in the form of friendship, and two in my life of almost 50 years took the form of desire, passion and oneness that was sexual and should have or could have led to a lifelong relationship.

there have been anon encounters in the past. some of which were very hot - but all of which were empty. and while i am going on 10 years without being touched, i recognize plenty of opportunity today to get touched and want to be touched again with a guy before i turn 50. however, i haven't acted, because sex isn't all that i want anymore. to me the act is purely meaningless without the emotional connection and (hopefully) the opportunity to establish a committed relationship.

in my humble view, single guys (and the married ones posting on CL) my age today only want the momentary pleasure; view commitment as messy and any intensity becomes a distraction to their comfortable lives.

so...what was it like for me? with each passing year, and one less this year than last, i'm beginning to think that all of this..... is pretty lousy.

we have seven billion people on this planet, 50% of which are men, and i have been most unable to find even one to set up house.... so, i have to be honest and conclude it is not "them" but me - i'm the loser. perhaps i am just too intense for most people. quite possibly too i may be just a little bit happier in my life today having never been with a guy after the rape. not knowing what is possible; never feeling the passion; never experiencing the heat with another guy after we two have connected on all levels of our existence and are compelled to share our love through the most intense experience that only humans can share ... what do they say?
ignorance may indeed be bliss. :-)

_________________________
Jeff

Top
#381208 - 01/01/12 03:06 PM Re: First time acting on SSA [Re: westchesterguy]
EdfromNYC Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/18/10
Posts: 233
Loc: New York City
I got really uncomfortable reading your post because it brought back memories of my acting out with men days and all of the illusions that I bought into for a while. That's my take on acting on my SSA - that it was full of illusions and intensity and an incredible pull to act upon but it was like an addiction and there was nothing healthy in it for me.

I looked at the world in many of the same ways that you posted but not anymore. I can't imagine romantic love between men like I can between a man and a woman but even that is difficult for me.

My entire attraction to other men was simply because what I imagined that I saw in other men, well, I believed the only way that I could attain it or sort of get approval by it was to engage in sex with the holder of that attribute. Basically, I got into a pattern of believing that if I had sex with men, I was approved by him and that meant that I got some weird sense of okayness. I no longer idolize other men in that way - now I look for ways for me to dig deep and find the attributes in me that I was seeking in other men through sexual acting out due to my abuse. I still would like to find ways of getting affirmation outside of myself, too.

I guess other men aren't doing that like I was. I feel like I was blind and now I can see what was really going on. The more I understand, the less shame I feel about my acting out after my abuse.

_________________________
And more, much more, the heart may feel,
Than the pen may write or the lip reveal.
Winthrop Mackworth Praed

Top
#381339 - 01/03/12 10:16 AM Re: First time acting on SSA [Re: Doubter]
Avery46 Offline


Registered: 09/23/10
Posts: 1243
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Doubter
... it doesn't go well I will feel like shit....


Hi, Doubter.

There might be a reason you know the above. I have been "out" 21 years. I was once married. I struggled with acting on the SSA. I had not dealt with the CSA.

I understand the need to know for yourself if your missing out.

Peace,
Avery

_________________________
aka DJsport

Top
#381370 - 01/03/12 09:22 PM Re: First time acting on SSA [Re: Avery46]
1lifenow Offline


Registered: 03/07/11
Posts: 412
Loc: west coast
Doubter, you truly gave me food for thought so I thought would try to come up with some of the possible outcomes of your impending adventure/dilemma. I am sure there are others, but this was all I could think of, so to use your parameters:

MEH:

1. confused cuz part of me liked it and yet I feel worse and more guilt/shame
2. confused cuz I wasn’t really that into him as a person but it was sort of good
3. confused cuz I liked just the sex part but not the touching, holding, kissing whatever
4. confused cuz I liked the holding , touching , kissing but not really the sex part, ewe
5. confused cuz I was sort of into him but he wasn’t considerate about me, was it just me? am I not loveable? He did not ask for my number, did I do something wrong?
6. confused cuz I liked it , so is that the real me, or am I just repeating an abuse pattern, and how would I know the difference?
7. confused cuz i didnt really like it yet, I feel sort of like I want to do it again.
8. confused cuz I was not really that into him, maybe its just that, maybe it would be different with a different guy, so I never really resolved anything.

BAD:

1. glad cuz now I know that’s not my thing, I was missing nothing
2. glad cuz its goes against what’s “right “ and its not going against my values and sense of self
3. glad cuz now my life will be way less complicated and simple
4. glad cuz I don’t have to worry about the effects of the csa, doesn’t matter with respect to my sexuality, can now focus on just connecting with people and not isolating

or;
1. feel like shit cuz now I feel ashamed. Why did I even try, what was I thinking?
2. feel like shit cuz I let myself be so vulnerable, it felt like abuse all over
3. feel like shit cuz I was sort of hoping I was going to like it, why did my fantasizing bullshit me? I don’t understand
4. feel like shit cuz he pushed me farther than I wanted to go
5. feel like shit cuz I never expressed what my needs were.

GOOD:
1. feel like shit cuz its not “right’, its goes against my values
2. feel like shit cuz its just a repeat of the abuse
3. feel like shit cuz its not who I thought I was my whole life, wtf? Have I wasted my whole life?
4. feel like shit cuz I will never be accepted by friends, family, community etc. I am f'd.
5. feel like shit cuz I now have to hide those feelings even more. Great , even more feelings of isolation.
6. feel like shit cuz I will never want to really ‘be’ with a guy cuz “I know I am not gay” so what now, doomed to meaningless repeats of the same go nowhere experience.
7. feel like shit cuz that’s not my idea of ‘romantic love’ as I know it to be.
8. feels like shit cuz my negative self talk will say now that’s potentially twice as many people I could be with that I isolate myself from. omg

or;
1. glad cuz its something that I can say been there done that, cross it off my bucket list like a trip to Vegas - not something I have to do again no big deal.
2. glad now cuz I know if that I could be with both a man and a woman, doesn’t matter just don’t want to be lonely
3. glad cuz maybe an old dog can learn new tricks ( really no pun intended honest)
4. glad cuz maybe if i met the right guy I would love that to happen again. Friends with benefits I could live with that.
5. glad cuz now I know its more congruent with how I feel inside. It just felt right - I just 'know'
6. glad cuz I no longer have to feel guilt and shame cuz that’s part of who I am. No big deal.
7. glad cuz now I realize I a being capable of acceptance of myself whoever i am without reservation.

This is truly a mindfield ( pun intended) so tread carefully. I think this is why a T may help b4 and or after if you decide to 'go all the way'.

As always, as best you can , try to truly listen to that inner voice without prejudice. Try to be as honest with yourself in the moment as you are capable of being. No one, especially yourself, could ever ask more of you than that. So whatever the outcome, it will be real.


Cheers for a great new year.

g

_________________________
The need for love lies at the very foundation of human existence. Dalai Lama

WoR Barrie 2011

Top
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >


Moderator:  ModTeam, peroperic2009 

I agree that my access and use of the MaleSurvivor discussion forums and chat room is subject to the terms of this Agreement. AND the sole discretion of MaleSurvivor.
I agree that my use of MaleSurvivor resources are AT-WILL, and that my posting privileges may be terminated at any time, and for any reason by MaleSurvivor.