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#381251 - 01/02/12 01:31 AM Re: Does God offer forgiveness to even our perps? [Re: SamV]
ALIVE 3n1 Offline


Registered: 12/24/11
Posts: 76
Loc: Throne Room of God
God Saves Sinners

God- the Triune Jehovah, Father, Son and Spirit; three Persons working together in sovereign wisdom, power and love to achieve the salvation of a chosen people, the Father electing, the Son fulfilling the Father's will by redeeming, the Spirit executing the purpose of Father and Son by renewing.

Saves- does everything, first to last, that is involved in bringing man from death in sin to life in glory: plans, achieves and communicates redemption, calls and keeps, justifies, sanctifies, glorifies.

Sinners- men as God finds them, guilty, vile, helpless, powerless, unable to lift a finger to do God's will or better their spiritual lot.

God saves sinners- and the force of this confession may not be weakened by disrupting the unity of the work of the Trinity, or by dividing the achievement of salvation between God and man and making the decisive part man's own, or by soft-pedalling the sinner's inability so as to allow him to share the praise of his salvation with his Saviour.

To sum it all up: sinners do not save themselves in any sense at all, but that salvation, first and last, whole and entire, past, present and future, is of the Lord, to whom be glory for ever. J.I. Packer

I thought this would articulate the position of Orthodox Christianity. I thought about writing something out and then remembered reading this essay.

I had a problem with the wording of this thread. The offer of forgiveness puts the authority in man's actions. What God purposes, happens. If the perpetrator is drawn to Godly repentance, it will happen, period. No ifs, and, or buts about it. Now as a Christian I get the unenviable task of recognizing my sin in the same light as my perps. Not from my perspective, but from God's. Here is a couple of verses from Romans that puts the whole picture in perspective.

Romans 5

1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom also we have obtained our introduction by faith into this grace in which we stand ; and we exult in hope of the glory of God. 3 And not only this, but we also exult in our tribulations, knowing that tribulation brings about perseverance ; 4 and perseverance, proven character ; and proven character, hope ; 5 and hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out within our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us. 6 For while we were still helpless, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. 7 For one will hardly die for a righteous man ; though perhaps for the good man someone would dare even to die. 8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him. 10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.


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#381807 - 01/08/12 02:46 PM Re: Does God offer forgiveness to even our perps? [Re: ALIVE 3n1]
Tyler845 Offline


Registered: 11/04/10
Posts: 276
Loc: U.S.A.
I hope my perps can find peace and happiness.

I saw this thread yesterday, and have given it alot of thought. I do believe god offers forgiveness to them, same as me. Have I not hurt people emotionally with my confusion before I came to understand my difficulties ? Yes. I feel confusion and sexual perversion in the way of lust is the root cause for every encounter of abuse I endured. In that vein, inhabiting a broken creation, in this stage of my recovery, I find hope in the fact that the perps in my past can be brought to the same salvation, love, and understanding as I have. I ofcourse understand anger, hatred, or any other pain-induced view of another's perp. I in no way feel that if I had'nt been given understanding and insight from my friends here with recovery, could I genuinely feel this way toward my perps. I know many don't feel this way, and I in no way feel superior or further along than any of my brothers here. I wish my perps the best, as I expect the best for myself in the present, and future.



Edited by Tyler845 (01/08/12 02:48 PM)
_________________________
Most Often, The Child Inside Has Better Access To Execute The Flawless Potential Of Self.

Over-Ride Emotional Conflict With Rational Truths

You Are Freer Than You Think - Paul Berteaux

Come unto Me, all ye that Labor, and are Heavy-ladened. I will give you Rest -Jesus Christ

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#381837 - 01/09/12 12:05 AM Re: Does God offer forgiveness to even our perps? [Re: Tyler845]
ALIVE 3n1 Offline


Registered: 12/24/11
Posts: 76
Loc: Throne Room of God
Tyler,

I agree with you. I do hope and pray that my/all perps are drawn into a relationship with Jesus.

What I recognize is that regardless of the light that is shown into the burned out consciences of these people, they will still love the darkness.

The recognition of sinful behavior comes after the grace that has been given to the believer. Without grace there is no recognition of the truth. You also cannot ask for grace, otherwise it would not be grace. Even if one was to come back from the dead they still would not believe. Not all have been given the faith to believe. Faith is not of ourselves but a gift of God.

The idea that anybody can have a relationship with God on their own terms is heretical. There has to be the removal of their heart of stone being replaced with a living heart. Man cannot do the heart transplant on themselves or anybody else.

The key question you have to ask yourself is "What caused you to believe?"

Religion is Man making himself right with God.
Christianity is God making man right for himself.
Christianity is not a religion.


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#382016 - 01/10/12 02:40 PM Re: Does God offer forgiveness to even our perps? [Re: ALIVE 3n1]
Tyler845 Offline


Registered: 11/04/10
Posts: 276
Loc: U.S.A.
Love. Feeling of love, and having no other way to describe it, or put it into context.

_________________________
Most Often, The Child Inside Has Better Access To Execute The Flawless Potential Of Self.

Over-Ride Emotional Conflict With Rational Truths

You Are Freer Than You Think - Paul Berteaux

Come unto Me, all ye that Labor, and are Heavy-ladened. I will give you Rest -Jesus Christ

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#382055 - 01/11/12 12:32 AM Re: Does God offer forgiveness to even our perps? [Re: Tyler845]
ALIVE 3n1 Offline


Registered: 12/24/11
Posts: 76
Loc: Throne Room of God
Yes, that unbelievable love. Washing over you, healing you, holding you. This love has nothing to do with what we know or who we are or what we did. Each of us, that has been born again, remembers that exact moment that the chains came off.

We all start off saying "I chose Christ." But then the longer we walk with the Lord the more we realize that He chose us. Now we have to deal with WHY? Why me? Are you sure? Really, I am unworthy. I have alot of issues. HA,HA understatement of the year.

What about the guy standing next to me? He heard the exact same message. Why didn't he respond the same way I did? Didn't he feel the same waves of love? Why am I the only one with tears running down my face?

The reason is that YOU are special. Our Lord Jesus Christ was specifically thinking of you. We are not going to be holding hands with everybody in our churches singing Kumbaya. I seriously think we have a major problem with the lukewarm Christians in the North American churches. Really, when I stumble let me fall into the hands of the drunkard, swindler, adulteress. They know how to minister to the fallen better than the self-righteous prigs in the church. Now, I am not saying that every church is like that. We just know they are out there, and the wrath of God is coming to them.

What I am trying to say is that whenever you read the Bible and you see the word Israel, put Christian in its place. You have to be discerning when you do this. And you can also replace it with your name in alot of different passages.

When did God write your name in the Book of Life?
This is when we really have to expand our personal definition of what omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, really means.

Our finite minds have a hard time comprehending infinity. Let's expand our minds. It is really where the assurance of our salvation begins.


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