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#380554 - 12/24/11 01:12 AM Societal Question - Pros plz take notice
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6515
Loc: Terminus
OK. We pretty much all know that kiddie-porn 8mm movies and magazines were readily available in the adult bookstores back in time. I recall 60-Minutes doing an expose on it when I was about 11-12ish so that's about 1972 maybe?

So kiddie porn was legal. Bookstores were frequented by ADULT MEN.

Here's the rub:

1) Why was there no outrage? Where was the societal objection?
2) Why did "men" allow it to go on? Why did no one grab the clerk by the neck and dispatch him?
3) Why was this provision of pedophilia so accepted?

I really, truly hope some folks can shed some light on this.

One of the perps father's had a 1-foot thick collection of kiddie porn (boy/boy, men/boy and all of it was mega hard-core) along with his cases of straight male/female porn (wicked hard-core).

Laws changed. His collection would put him in club-fed for life now. But I tend to question if society gives a flip.

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#380580 - 12/24/11 09:42 AM Re: Societal Question - Pros plz take notice [Re: Still]
phoenix321 Offline


Registered: 09/26/11
Posts: 912
Loc: USA, FL
The only time society gives a damn as a whole is when it gets so bad, they have no choice to ignore it with lip service by sacrifice the worst offenders calling it "justice." Then they congratulate themselves on how fucking brave they were in "facing" the problem by giving the victims something that costs them more than the crimes--extradition from view. Out of sight, out of mind.

_________________________
Phoenix

A guy opens the front door and sees a snail on his doorstep. He picks up the snail and throws it across the street in a neighbor's yard. A year later, the guy opens the front door and the same snail is on his doorstep. The snail says, "What the f*ck was that about?"

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#380586 - 12/24/11 10:28 AM Re: Societal Question - Pros plz take notice [Re: phoenix321]
Still Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6515
Loc: Terminus
Thank you phoenix. I agree with this view, and I know there are many many more.

Does no one else have anything to add? I spent all night looking for a scholarly article on the topic and there appears to none. There's focus on pedos and their use of child porn, but there's no examination of societal condition that allowed and then disallowed child porn.


Anyone? This thing on? <<<check check>>>

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#380587 - 12/24/11 10:37 AM Re: Societal Question - Pros plz take notice [Re: Still]
Obi Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 1342
Loc: kansas
robbie,

not sure if this is correct or not. it was just my first thought(s) on it without actually thinking this entirely through...

buuuuuuuuuut,

perhaps it's like how we have to deal with issues. one step at a time... one time society may have accepted it. however, they aren't accepting now and the laws have changed. took a while to change the laws. one step at a time to get through that process...

now it's continuining the pattern of one step at a time. change doesn't happen overnight. well, most often it doesn't. there's always steps, that take a while, to go through..

like the rights for women and african americans in this country took years to even get to where they are today.

you can see it in the homosexual community now fighting for their causes in equality

it's the same with this... it takes time for society to make the necessary changes... right now it's going through the necessary changes.

i would even say that because of all the recent news coming out that society is going to go through a major growth spurt....

now, i could be totally wrong and offbase on this but i do think that we're at the beginning of some major changing that's going to happen.

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#380588 - 12/24/11 10:42 AM Re: Societal Question - Pros plz take notice [Re: Obi]
InsideTheWall Offline


Registered: 01/10/09
Posts: 284
I don't think the harm was understood until recent times.


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#380590 - 12/24/11 10:48 AM Re: Societal Question - Pros plz take notice [Re: Obi]
Still Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6515
Loc: Terminus
Obi,

That is certainly plausible and possible. If THIS is the case, I find it really disturbing that in my father's lifetime (and within my own), magazines and super 8s of child sexual abuse was acceptable.

I also realize that covert child-rape was ultra common throughout many eras of human existence, but it was never, ever reported. It was just not a reportable thing...cuz...who would you tell and "what's the big deal."

But to think that we are standing THIS close days of that view??? Holy crud! What does that say about a boy raped in 1968 (me)?

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We don't need another hero! [Aunty Entity 1985]

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#380591 - 12/24/11 10:52 AM Re: Societal Question - Pros plz take notice [Re: InsideTheWall]
Still Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6515
Loc: Terminus
Originally Posted By: InsideTheWall
I don't think the harm was understood until recent times.


OK...again....very plausible and possible. It might explain a lot of bad behaviour like clock-tower shooters, alcoholics and mass-murderers.

But humans have been around for HOW long? Freud never postulated "gee...I wonder if he's screwed-up because his uncle f'd him every day?"

Wow!

_________________________
We don't need another hero! [Aunty Entity 1985]

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#380595 - 12/24/11 12:21 PM Re: Societal Question - Pros plz take notice [Re: Still]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6515
Loc: Terminus
Found this from someones dissertation. Its the most I've found of discussion of child porn through time, but no discussion of the humanity and sociology involved.


C h i l d P o r n o g r a p h y
o n t h e I n t e r n e t
by
Richard Wortley
Stephen Smallbon

...
The treatment of children as sexual objects has existed
through the ages, and so too has the production of erotic
literature and drawings involving children. However,
pornography in the modern sense began with the
invention of the camera in the early nineteenth century.
Almost immediately, sexualized images involving children
were produced, traded, and collected.
1
Even so, child
pornography remained a restricted activity through most
of the twentieth century. Images were usually locally
produced, of poor quality, expensive, and difficult to
obtain. The relaxation of censorship standards in the
1960s led to an increase in the availability of child
pornography, and, by 1977, some 250 child pornography
magazines were circulating in the United States, many
imported from Europe.
2
Despite concern about the
extent of child pornography, law enforcement agencies
had considerable success in stemming the trafficking of
these traditional hard-copy forms. However, the advent of
the Internet in the 1980s dramatically changed the scale
and nature of the child pornography problem, and has
required new approaches to investigation and control.
...

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We don't need another hero! [Aunty Entity 1985]

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#380598 - 12/24/11 12:36 PM Re: Societal Question - Pros plz take notice [Re: Still]
pufferfish Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6875
Loc: USA
This is how it stacks up to me:

1) All kinds of abuse are getting worse today. Society used to have huge restraints on promiscuous behavior. The bad is that there is lots of stuff going on. The good is that there is more freedom of expression.

2) Kiddie porn thrives with technological innovation. The arrival of internet and dvd's and fast computers with large hard drives makes storage and interchange of kiddie porn and other porn easy. When my abuser was taking pictures of us (boys) he had to use a large professional 16mm camera. He had access to a professional developing system.

3) Hundreds of years ago, in Shakespeare's time and long before, girls became wives (legally) in early teens. They had a different set of somewhat cryptic words for sexual behavior, like cuckold. I can't come up with an example, but incest was regarded very differently. Ophelia in Hamlet was probably a teen girl. Women weren't allowed to be actresses. Boys had to play the girl roles. Mary (Jesus' Mother and Joseph's wife) was probably a young teenage girl.

4) Now, and because of reason 3 and cultural changes, we have long periods of teenage years where the teens are fully functional sexually but they have not acquired: Ability to restrain their emotions and sexuality, ability to earn a living, ability to support a family emotionally and financially. The media and advertising spurs their inner sexual drives without encouraging responsible behavior.

5) The school system we have (in the western world) puts kids in exposure to other kids in large numbers and there is little supervision.

6) Working mothers (and/or fathers) leave kids without adequate supervision. Family values and the family structure in general have broken down. In the media, the degenerate role is often portrayed as the norm.

7) The underlying belief systems have greatly changed. It used to be that (in western society) biblical standards were accepted and promulgated everywhere in the western world. Standards of moral conduct were accepted even if the centrality of the Bible was not accepted. Now the religion of the day has become secular humanism. In this society the top value system is freedom of the individual and freedom of expression. Responsibility for conduct has been severely downgraded.

8) Society as a whole generally believes in a relative value system. That is, whether a thing is bad or good is not evaluated in terms of an absolute standard of laws. The idea of absolutes is rejected. Evaluation of behavior is only regarded as a relative matter. You hear the expression: 'It's all relative'. In other words, we have no one outside of our perceptions to whom we are responsible for our behavior.

9) Evolutionary mechanisms have become a dominating dogma of western society. This allows society to reject objective standards of behavior because it seems to teach that God is irrelevant to the physical reality we see around us. The whole 'God thing' becomes irrelevant. Now things are interpreted as having arisen without any divine intervention and guidance. Because of this it seems to reinforce the relativism and dominance of natural philosophy. The belief is that: 'Nothing matters unless we can see it, feel it or touch or measure it.'

Reference:

How Should we Then Live, by Fancis Shaffer.

http://www.amazon.com/Should-Then-Live-LAbri-Anniversary/dp/1581345364/

Allen (Puffer)


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#380599 - 12/24/11 12:51 PM Re: Societal Question - Pros plz take notice [Re: pufferfish]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6515
Loc: Terminus
So society and humanity is greatly DEvolving, yet the child porn was not frowned upon during the very years we were hurt. CP was elemental in my abuse. It was a clear guide and permit to abhorrent, animalistic behavior...satisfaction of the perp's flesh.

But we are devolving (shifting) and CP is dramatically taboo and will lead to vast prison sentences.

Why am I chewing-over and seeking all this stuff? Because I think it contributes to predicting what disclosure would have resulted in back in the 70s...rescue or destruction. Examining it is fully necessary for me right now, but its not making me feel any better.

_________________________
We don't need another hero! [Aunty Entity 1985]

The Aftermath Video

My Absolute Hero!

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