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#380332 - 12/21/11 06:18 PM Help!!! Need your input re: SAB therapist comment
OurLastChance Offline


Registered: 05/02/11
Posts: 32
Loc: USA
Hello everyone, it's been quite some time since I've posted. Thought I was doing ok for my spouse but I'm actually not.

Previously I mentioned to all that my Spouse's SAB Therapist forbade him from including the wife in any of the therapy and Spouse could not disclose anything 'said' during the therapy either.

This has been really hard on me because the SAB surfaced as the result of Spouse hitting rock bottom when his Affair with another woman was reveaed. SAB therapist also forbade Spouse from entering Marriage counseling with me for his first 9 months of therapy.

After much pushing on my part, Spouse finally got the go ahead for MC in September and I made the appointment with Spouse's initial non-SAB therapist thinking he would feel more comfortable with a familiar face.

After first MC visit Spouse backed out, said he was not comfortable and told me he felt we both needed to heal ourselves before we committed to MC. I was devestated.

Last night we were in an argument on another issue and Spouse brought up a comment he says the SAB therapist made a few weeks ago. SAB indicated that if you don't wish to save your marriage, go to MC counseling.

During this whole process of the SAB therapy, the Therapist has made no effort to assist nor allow treatment for the infidelity issues or our marriage issues. This is 50% of the stress between the both of us right now.

What kind of a therapist would do that?


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#380336 - 12/21/11 07:34 PM Re: Help!!! Need your input re: SAB therapist comment [Re: OurLastChance]
George E. Offline


Registered: 11/12/11
Posts: 48
Loc: Kent, Washington
My personal experience is that Therapy and Marriage Counseling are not mutually exclusive.
I had a weekly session of Psychotherapy with a male doctor by myself, and a every other week session of Marriage Counseling with a lady doctor, with my wife, and that worked very well for both.
We had been married about 3 years when we started, and are now close to the 28th anniversary.
"SAB indicated that if you don't wish to save your marriage, go to MC counseling" is just crap, imho.


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#380341 - 12/21/11 08:05 PM Re: Help!!! Need your input re: SAB therapist comment [Re: OurLastChance]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6602
Loc: FEMA Region 1
Originally Posted By: OurLastChance
SAB indicated that if you don't wish to save your marriage, go to MC counseling.



Its true. And we went to "Christian Pastoral Marriage Counseling." The guy was a shmuck on wheels and drove a wedge between us that could never ever be removed. He has NO business being in his profession.

WHY? you ask? These shmucks can't handle CSA cases even if their life depended upon it. They have NO clue. CSA is an issolated illness that is unique to their worlds and perpectives. They typically believe the wife surely never needs to bother with the losers of life's lottery. Just move-on...he fooled you.

This guy was an arrogant arse-hole who was openly hostile to me for infecting a normal with marriage. I'm actually surprised I let the shmuck continue drawing breath.

Now, I agree. I had NO business marrying a normal. Normals can't handle it, and thats just reality, not a judgement. But this shlomoe never used one minute of our time together trying to help us. he was solely focused upon getting my ex out of "her situation" ASAP. And we were not even dealing with ANY (as in ANY) infidelity. My only offense was being sex-meat for seven years as a child.

_________________________
I'm "that guy."

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#380343 - 12/21/11 08:12 PM Re: Help!!! Need your input re: SAB therapist comment [Re: Still]
GoodHope Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/05/11
Posts: 417
I wanted to do marriage counseling immediately. We were also brought to this place by infidelity. My therapist who does work extensively with sexual abuse advised against it. She is not my husband's therapist (who also specializes in sex abuse). Her reasoning is that generally speaking, there is so much elementary work that needs to be done with the survivor that it is almost pointless (at least early on) to try to do extensive marital therapy. Depending on the age of the survivor when the abuse started, some pyschological processes are interrupted. I can't remember her exact words, but what I took away is that he would have to learn how to make his brain work how people who have not been abused works. So certain ways I have a relating, he can mimic, but can't relate to. It makes for a frustrating situation. What I was able to get all 4 parties to agree to is a joint session. I just want to know how we can progress in our marriage without doing further harm to each other. I want some trust building exercises that he is capable of participating in. I want some pointers on how to make him feel safe enough to tell me the truth. We are planning on doing this session in January. I don't know if it will help or work. But I do know from this site that therapy will be years-long endeavor. I'm in it for as long as he's working on it, but I want to be progressing too. Hope this helps.

In my opinion, I will never do therapy with anohter person who is not informed about CSA. CSA infects EVERYTHING. So things that might seem straight up and down to me, turn out to be wonky sideways for us. My therapist sees it instantly, the poor woman I saw first--clueless does not even begin to describe her. Her advice was so wrong that even in my broken, angry state, I could see it.

_________________________
Wife of a survivor

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#380344 - 12/21/11 08:13 PM Re: Help!!! Need your input re: SAB therapist comment [Re: GoodHope]
GoodHope Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/05/11
Posts: 417
Hey Robbie, the first therapist I just mentioned, also a Christian counselor. I love the Lord, but so far His "counselors" haven't shown me much, LOL!

_________________________
Wife of a survivor

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#380345 - 12/21/11 08:22 PM Re: Help!!! Need your input re: SAB therapist comment [Re: Still]
lucylives Offline


Registered: 04/07/11
Posts: 367
OLC,

I feel your frustration. I have been there. My husband's therapist as wel as my own said it was a waste until you each get to a certain point in both of your recoveries. It was probably 10 months of serious therapy before we started MC.

Recovery, as they say, is a 3 legged stool. My recovery, your recovery and our recovery. The "our" recovery isn't possible until the other 2 legs are in place.

That being said, I don't know of any therapists (and I know alot about them from my COSA group) who have told them to be so secretive. They are actually trying to get the CSA to take responsibility for what is their responsibility and only that and try rebuilding trust with themselves and their spouses.

If my husband came home and told me that, I wouldn't believe the therapist actually said that and i would think my husband was lying. That is just me though. Either that or the therapist is an idiot. I would have to ask my husbandto calll the therapist so I could hear the therapist say that shit.

Sorry to sound so judgmental about his therpist but it really pisses me off when people claim to know about this stuff and are full of shit and ignorant and then are f%^&ing with our lives.

UGH.


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#380382 - 12/22/11 01:21 AM Re: Help!!! Need your input re: SAB therapist comment [Re: lucylives]
OurLastChance Offline


Registered: 05/02/11
Posts: 32
Loc: USA
Thank you everyone for your input. I'm digesting the responses and so far I see that I need to remind myself to take a step back and look at the slideshow of events caused by the SAB, not just the pain I'm dealing with from the affair.

I can deal with the SAB, I cannot deal with the affair nor potential future affairs. These are killing me.


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#380405 - 12/22/11 09:41 AM Re: Help!!! Need your input re: SAB therapist comment [Re: OurLastChance]
GoodHope Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/05/11
Posts: 417
If you are a Christian, i just read a great book about moving beyond the betrayal. It's called Healing Your Marriage When Trust Is Broken: Finding Forgiveness and Restoration by Cindy Beall. She has a sex addict husband who is a pastor. Multiple affairs, we know the drill. Anyway, the best I've read so far. a non Christian book that is pretty good is Janis Spring, After the Affair. The cheating has been my biggest obstacle as well.

_________________________
Wife of a survivor

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#380414 - 12/22/11 11:26 AM Re: Help!!! Need your input re: SAB therapist comment [Re: GoodHope]
Castle Offline


Registered: 10/03/09
Posts: 734
Loc: NJ
I dont know how successful religious based counceling can be...it's my own bias, but it doesnt seem that human nature is really looked at for what it is, but how to reflect the written word and religious bias ...I cant understand anything where as a councelor might try to say somebody will goto hell for SSA thoughts, or for being gay...they hypocricy is stupifying to me.

I dont mind being flamed for my thoughts, but I can't say it enough to find a T that is experienced in CSA, and bases their advise for whats best for the person..not based on a religous belief system...A good compriise could be a councelor for CSA Family issues, and a spiritual counselor for that side of things.

and man the thing with the "Normals" is really bothersome to me, but it could be jsut me, it just gives such a bad message. IMHO

_________________________

My posts can self destruct at any time..read them while you can.

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#380419 - 12/22/11 12:01 PM Re: Help!!! Need your input re: SAB therapist comment [Re: Castle]
GoodHope Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/05/11
Posts: 417
I think the problem with religious counselors is a matter of emphasis more than anything. Parts of what I as a supporter is struggling with is spiritual, she could help Me there but a huge part of what I need as a supporter is technical. He or she COULD have the technical expertise in CSA but I suspect most don't because that is not what is emphasized in their training. I think you'd have the same problem if you picked a therapist at random in the phone book. CSA requires a specific knowledge and skill set. I will never again waste my time with a therapist without the background. Too much damage can be done in an already tenuous situation. I'd love for more pastoral counseling programs to address this issue in their curriculum though.

My therapist is respectful of my beliefs and seems to see how I incorporate them into the process but she offers no insight. I have to get that from elsewhere and that is not necessarily a bad thing either.

_________________________
Wife of a survivor

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#380421 - 12/22/11 12:39 PM Re: Help!!! Need your input re: SAB therapist comment [Re: GoodHope]
Castle Offline


Registered: 10/03/09
Posts: 734
Loc: NJ
exactly my point....the religious counselor has a different motive in mind...and I hope you get some help with your spirituaity concerns and the CSA related concerns.

If you have cancer or heart disease do you goto an MD, who focuses on encology or cardiovascular specialist or a spiritual healer, who thinks god and prayer will make you better? But you can also do both, goto a DR and use your faith to hel get you through the illness.

_________________________

My posts can self destruct at any time..read them while you can.

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#380488 - 12/23/11 09:45 AM Re: Help!!! Need your input re: SAB therapist comment [Re: Castle]
Ken Singer, LCSW Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/24/00
Posts: 5780
Loc: Lambertville, NJ USA
See "A Consumer's Guide to Therapist Shopping"

http://www.malesurvivor.org/consumers-guide.html


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#380636 - 12/25/11 05:50 AM Re: Help!!! Need your input re: SAB therapist comment [Re: OurLastChance]
Anniemy4sons Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/29/11
Posts: 98
Loc: NJ
A bad therapist. Its true that if its too soon to cover some issues in MC in hopes to save the marriage, its too soon. But the SAB is not an MC. They are concerned (it appears) with only your husband's needs and not those of the marriage OR yours. By not addressing them and leaving you in the cold. IS KILLING THE MARRIAGE. They both need a reality check and a wake up call. Marriage is two people.

You can only survive so long with this situation. Mark my words, if you don't get into therapy you marriage won't survive.

My husband and I did MC along with our own therapy. Let me tell you, if we didn't have a forum to discuss his infidelities and all the other stuff going on in our marriage. We would be completely finished by now. You need that communication. You need to be kept up to speed with what is going on with him. Keeping this from you is just damaging. I can't imagine what reason ANY therapist could have for saying "Great session today, don't tell your wife".

STUPID.

_________________________
God is my teacher, Jesus my comfort and the Holy Spirit my protector.
I AM Listening...

Thank you Mother Mary.
Pray the Rosary every day. http://www.comepraytherosary.org/

I BELIEVE IN HER PROMISE.

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#380644 - 12/25/11 03:29 PM Re: Help!!! Need your input re: SAB therapist comment [Re: OurLastChance]
OurLastChance Offline


Registered: 05/02/11
Posts: 32
Loc: USA
Thank you Ken. After seeing your post, I read the Consumers Guide and then discussed this with my IC. I also brought my IC up-to-date on some of my husband's odd disclosures which have surfaced lately.

My IC believes that either my husband is lying about the non-disclosure of SAB therapy or his therapist is actively going against the State's code of ethics. I believe it's the later.

My IC was also astounded to hear of his comment about the marriage counseling.

At this point my IC is also concerned about husband's suicidal threats when we argue and as so states husband should feel confortable enough to be discussing these thoughts with his therapist. Unfortunately I pointed out that husband is afraid to discuiss for fear of his therapist notifying the authorities. (I believe husband's IC advised him during his intake evaluation that this would occur if a situation of suicide thoughts should arise).


Certainly I will need to create a new list of requirements once the holidays are over. This has been taking it's toll on me for months and I need to begin dedicating time to myself and my future.


{The SAB specialist is no longer providing individual therapy to husband, instead he is currently in group therapy with a men's SAB group monitored by his SAB IC}.

I see I'm beginning to ramble, it's late and much to do tomorrow. Thanks for listening.


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#380870 - 12/27/11 10:00 PM Re: Help!!! Need your input re: SAB therapist comment [Re: OurLastChance]
OurLastChance Offline


Registered: 05/02/11
Posts: 32
Loc: USA
I took the opportunity today to Google my husband's therapist. I find it quite comical that he advertises the below services on his website:

Specialization-
- Childhood Trauma
- Post Traumatic Stress
- Marital & Relationship Problems

I really don't know which to believe, either my husband is lying or his therapist is playing mind games on him.


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#380935 - 12/28/11 09:23 PM Re: Help!!! Need your input re: SAB therapist comment [Re: OurLastChance]
OurLastChance Offline


Registered: 05/02/11
Posts: 32
Loc: USA
Today I went into my husband's old e-mail address to close it out since he no longer uses it (hasn't used it for the past 2 yrs). I came across an e-mail from his sister sent earlier this month on 12/5, which implied that he told her we were not doing very well. (None of his siblings know of his SAB or specialized therapy however, his therapist feels one brother and this sister were also sexually abused by their father).

The sister took his negative comments as our marriage was breaking up so she gave him some advice including a statement that indicated he should wait till the holidays were over to end it. I fell apart when I read this.

Why is it that he never has positive comments, why does he always have to tell people only the negative aspects. Is he looking for sympathy?

My husband was on the way to his evening group therapy with the quack when I called him tonight and asked when he was planning on telling me our marriage was over and he was leaving. After a bit of discussion, this came round back to the topic of his therapist and that indeed, our marriage will fail because of his exclusion of me in the therapy & his life. I stressed again that "we" need therapy together too and if we can just get a real SAB therapist that will see both of us, our stress levels can begin to come down.

Why is it that I, the survivor spouse has to fight twice as hard to keep their marriage together because the survivor doesn't see the warm, loving light at the end of the tunnel?

Robbie, sometimes the spouse has to walk away because they can no longer take the constant beatings of negativity from the survivor. When the survivor's spouse is finally down to the same emotional level as the survivor, who's there to pick them both up?






Edited by OurLastChance (12/28/11 09:35 PM)

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#380939 - 12/28/11 10:03 PM Re: Help!!! Need your input re: SAB therapist comment [Re: OurLastChance]
Ken Singer, LCSW Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/24/00
Posts: 5780
Loc: Lambertville, NJ USA
OLC:
I would tell my husband that I would want to meet with him and the therapist. If the therapist refuses, I would agree with your IC that something is not right and it sounds like the therapist is unethical or your husband is not giving you the straight poop.


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#381315 - 01/02/12 09:45 PM Re: Help!!! Need your input re: SAB therapist comment [Re: Ken Singer, LCSW]
OurLastChance Offline


Registered: 05/02/11
Posts: 32
Loc: USA
Husband offered to set-up a visit for me with his therapist and him, however, he advised the therapist would probably only go over the approach of the SAB therapy. He didn't feel his therapist would answer any of my questions or relate to me on feelings we should both be having and how to address them.

I turned down his offer, didn't feel it would address the true issues that have been hanging over our relationship. Feel like his IC has been doing more harm than good.


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#381317 - 01/02/12 09:56 PM Re: Help!!! Need your input re: SAB therapist comment [Re: OurLastChance]
George E. Offline


Registered: 11/12/11
Posts: 48
Loc: Kent, Washington
If I were you, and I am not, I would have made the appointment, regardless of the caveats that your husband was placing, and then, once in the session, I would have gone straight to get the answers to my issues. If the T refused to answer or address them properly, you knew then the ground you stood. Now, you can only guess ...



Edited by George E. (01/02/12 09:57 PM)
Edit Reason: to correct spelling mistake

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#381325 - 01/02/12 11:44 PM Re: Help!!! Need your input re: SAB therapist comment [Re: George E.]
OurLastChance Offline


Registered: 05/02/11
Posts: 32
Loc: USA
Thank you George for your honest opinion, I appreciate the input and agree, I may have bit my tongue.
It's not too late, I can still change my mind.


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#381413 - 01/04/12 09:41 AM Re: Help!!! Need your input re: SAB therapist comment [Re: OurLastChance]
Ken Singer, LCSW Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/24/00
Posts: 5780
Loc: Lambertville, NJ USA
I agree with George. Tell your husband's t that you've reconsidered the offer and when you get there, you can ask away. If your husband has set limits with the therapist, you can either challenge them or ask why they are there.

I like to meet the partners of my clients with their permission. Some will set limits on the conversation, such as acting out behaviors, and I will respect them. It might be a little uncomfortable, but I want the client to feel confident that I will not violate his boundaries.


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