It has been a full week(last Weds) since I first opened up to someone about my CSA. It has been a week and a half since I found the MS site and registered.
I have been involved in many church activities and one of them is becoming friends with men in the church. This is a big step for me. I get along with females, but men are another issue. I guess because of my CSA. I am still battling in my head why that would be. My whole childhood I was shy with guys. So I was never part of any click or group of guys to hang out with. I have yet to finish writing MY STORY so you understand where I am coming from.
Earlier this year I talked to my pastor about wanting some male companionship. He and some other leaders got me in touch with some guys who were needing some mentoring and also who felt alone. I knew the guys he was talking about, but didn't realize they had some lonely issues. One in particular I have been mentoring(if you can say that. He is half my age and I feel he is more of a brother to me) and we just started out by running in the mornings(ran alone before and was looking for a running partner anyways) and started talking while running. We really got to know each other. We even talked about deep issues that both of us were going through. I have never had a male relationship like this before. New territory!!! He really opened up to me and I felt that our trust was strong enough that I owed him for me to be open and honest with him. SO I met him for a serious conversation(and he knew that it was serious). I wasn't nervous and he was very open to the topic of MY STORY. It really felt good that I had the courage to finally tell someone my story. We are good about encouraging each other in our issues. There are a couple more people that I plan on telling. I may get nervous because it is a different situation and I am not as deep in our relationship. But I know that it must be done. One of the people that I need to tell and that I have a personal relationship is my wife. THAT SCARES ME! I don't know how she will react. Maybe she will see some insight on why I am the way I am. But my next person I am telling MY STORY to will be my pastor. More for guidance and counselling.

One step at a time!

Monkey

Well done bro,

the cracks just let in more light and lightness. I have found that the more I am able to let people know about what happened feels like myself and my real face get to come to the surface. I dreaded looking in the mirror let alone pictures. Now I can actually smile from the inside its not just another mask.

You have courage you have just begun to tap, keep going!

Monkey

Welcome--great job. Opening up helps, it allows you to see you past for what it was--and gives a new hope for the future. Keep well and this board has helped me in some many ways in facing what has happened to me. Like most of us, you may be on an emotional roller coaster, but writing about it let's it out. We are here and you are on the right path.

I relate a lot. I've actually had that thought on my brain a lot today. I too never connected with other guys or fit in with them. Still today I don't. I find I have utterly nothing in common with the "typical" male out there. It is indeed very lonely.

I have a couple guys I meet with now, but other than a shared faith, I still have little in common. When I was part of a regular Bible study group along with my wife, I'd end up sitting with my wife and the women during the "social and refreshment" time afterwards, because I just don't fit.

My wife was the first person I told. She's been good support. Not perfect, as it's totally outside her understanding, but still supportive. I did also tell my pastor and quickly realized it was completely outside anything he'd ever dealt with or had any kind of training or teaching on, so while he knows (actually the majority of my church knows the general stuff) it just doesn't come up.

Looks like you're doing some good work through, keep it up! Bit by bit day by day.


Oh, and I love the Screen Name! Monkey is my nickname for my son! Seems I come up with a nickname for all my kids. :-)

Hey monkey!

Welcome and thanks for fhe awesome sharing!

I liked your putting it out there and slowly developing a trusting relationship that you are growing in- breaking down that isolation barrier builds confidence and helps to drain away the shame and fear.

I also like the fact that u continue to take Calculated risks to share more of you with men in your life. If u have not yet read the resources page for survivors here at MS -especially about disclosure or any of the books mentioned, please do- ok?

Not sure if it is a good idea, but u might think about preparing your pastor about your talk in advance-at least so he knows the general topic of your upcoming session. He may be more helpful than hearing this without warning.

I can't wait to hear more out your work and your journey-ur post was Inspiring.

I AM on an emotional roller coaster. I have always been a volitale, emotional person. But now that I have told my story to that one person, I feel anxious and want to share again and more. Soon I will be telling my pastor. I will let you know how it goes and how we will go about things. And God willing I will get the courage to open up to the most important people in my life.....my wife and a few other family members. For now it seems that I privy to opening up to recent friends. Not sure what is up with that.

THanks for the encouragement,

Monkey

WOW...we are so much alike! I figured there are many men on MS that have these same "fitting in" issues. But it is nice to know and read about others. I never was a boy/kid/man to pal around with the guys. I might have felt deep down that I was below that and embarrassed because of my underlining problems from the past. It has scarred my thinking for so long that I got accustomed to it.

My screen name has some sentimentality to it. As a kid(during my CSA year) I was called monkey because I had the natural ability to swing on the monkey bars, go upside down, jump all over. I even equalled my teacher the ability to reach from one end to another set of bars on the horizontal monkey bars. Not that I am a "knuckle dragger" HAHA. But yes I do have long arms. But "monkey" is fitting because I also had the natural ability for gymnastics. That was the sport I concentrated on as a kid into adulthood. Didn't help me "fit in" with the guys who did football, etc. and a community where they thought gymnastics was for girls :-\

Monkey (even at 46yo, still can do flips)

Good point Buck about letting my pastor know. I am supposed to have a short meeting with him(today I hope) and I will let him know more of what is going on. I have had some talks with him a month or two ago and I have hinted that there is some deep problems with me that I want to talk about. I don't think I will fully surprise him.
I am not a "manly, man" and I think I come across to people as someone who is in touch with his "female" side too often.
He has dealt with councelling homesexuality and perversion and other issues along that line in our congregation. He even has been the brunt of a scandal in the past that he is open about. So I feel he would be a person I can console with.

Monkey

What does this mean?

Monkey,

I would not try to label sexual abuse or damaged sexuality as perversion or homosexuality.

In my experience, those labels don't lead to a deeper understanding of the issues that we sexual abuse survivors struggle with, nor do they lead to foundational healing.

Be able to opening discuss what happened to us, and what the consequences have been, in a supportive, non-judgemental environment is much more clarifying and freeing, IMHO.

I realize different groups have an understanding of human sexuality that stems from their own agenda - all over the map. My hope is that freely discussing our problems and what happened and our reactions lead to an awakening/understanding rather than labeling or simplified diagnosis.

I once had an expensive psychotherapist who gave me all kinds of labels which only distracted me from the real underlying truths about my abuse, damaged sense of self, broken sexuality, and fear of intimacy. It was a waste of my money and time and only dug me deeper into a corner.

Regardless, step ahead and practice and let us know how things go. Your recovery and experience are welcome here.

Blessings on your journey,

Report back!

Jamie

Hi monkey,

When I disclosed to some of my siblings, I could only get the courage to do it by E-mail. Even though I knew they would support me, there is always the tiny piece of doubt. Since then, I've told 2 more of my siblings and a couple of close family members, all supported me completely.

By telling those I know will support me first, I hope it will help me get through the inevitable "What the hell are you saying? Get a life." When it happens, I'll have already have told several and they all offered to support me fully so Ill know (s)he is nothing but an asshole. Hopefully anyway!!!

Dear Monkey,

Many details you mention that I can identify with - always a loner, needing but scared of male friends, mixed feelings about revealing past to wife and pastor.

My experience has been mixed. I had to tell my wife and it was hard - but the right thing to do. She felt compassion and a degree of understanding - but has some trust issues with me now - because I kept things from her in the past. I think that in the long run our relationship will be better.

I advise you to go slow. Take it one person at a time with the self-revelations. Every relationship will be affected in a different way and it will take a lot of your energy to make those adjustments - and the other individuals will each also have to work to make adjustments. this changes EVERYTHING! My experience is that it is better to have only one person "rocking the boat" at a time rather than mass confusion with numerous relationships in a state of flux and instablility.

Your mention of talking to your pastor was a real trigger for me. I did that at one time and the pastor who I thought of as a friend and counselor betrayed me. I thought he's understand because he had been abused as a child. But he reacted to his past trauma by becoming a predator and attempted to undermine my most important relationship by using what he knew about me against me.

Sorry if this is discouraging - but be careful who you trust. I don't want to sabotage your recovery by telling you not to do what you feel you need to do. Just proceed with caution and take care of yourself!

Regards,
Lee

Castle,
I guess I could rewrite it to say......he has councelled many in those areas within our congregation. Sometimes my line of thinking and writing don't match. Sorry.

Monkey

I did go see my pastor yesterday as planned. It was a short session because his calendar is really full. I was nervous, not at all like when I told my dear friend/confidant who was the first to know about my past. I was nervous I guess because he is an authority figure in the church, which was similar to the two perps from my past. But I would say that our talk did go well(despite me breaking down a couple times when I was telling it. The waterworks easily flow with me). He listened mostly as I told him my abridged version of MY STORY only because of time constraints. But I didn't feel rushed. I don't think he was overwhelmed at all. I knew there was more to his story that he revealed to the congregation several times. And in our talk next week he plans on opening up to me some more of what has happened to him. Could possibly be that by me coming forward with MY STORY and him opening up, that we can understand more about each other and ourselves.
That is one thing he made clear that we will take it one step at a time. He knows there are more issues with me than just my past. He wants to address my spiritual and emotional issues as well.
Thank you all for your support and understanding.

Monkey

Monkey,

I am glad things went well with your pastor. However, I agree with Lee. Take it slow. In my zeal to recover I confided in two of the closest people in my life, my partner and my best friend from back home, a man I've confided in for over 30 years. Both experiences were disastrous. Knocked the wind right out of me. As a result I have cut off all my friends and put my partner low on the ladder in my basically non-existent support network.

I am delighted your experiences have been so supportive. I envy you. Keep them close because if ever a bad experience comes along from sharing, you will need them.

Take it slow.

T

Disclosure and confrontation are alot of action, and you want them to go best they can and require lots of thought and planning. Can't put the cat back in, so plan.

Typically we ref this article here:

http://www.malesurvivor.org/ArchivedPages/singer3.html
I have some other thoughts ill get back to later.

I'm pretty open about the fact Im not into religion or the organization of religion...So I'm naturally biased, thats ok.

Its important to understand what abuse does and how it re-wires the brain...some of the acting out issues, and SSA is a difficult challenge for a lot of survivors. Some religious orginizations/secs who demonize homosexuality and or any type of same sex interaction, and believe through following the word ect can help you alliviate these "sins" are very challenging. these challenges need professional help besides the spiritual side.

Please be catious and I say this for everybody, to allow somebody to tell you that the effects of abuse can be prayed away or it was just the devil that took hold of you and or making you feel something like SSA.

I dont say these things lightly and to encite or cause problems, but the use of some of these tactics can have a terrrible effect on survivors looking for answers and turning to their faith. I have several very good friends whom are believers and we have respect for opposite views on things, so I hope this doesnt seem like an attack, as its not. This is not an attack on faith, I'm for your choice to choose what's best for you.

Castle,
Thanks for your frankness and being open on the issue. Yes I realize that because I am disclosing my past to my pastor that from his standpoint he will look at it from a religious aspect. I realize that only I am in control of what I feel will best help me. I can take or not take advice. Of course that becomes a trust issue. If I don't take his advice and he knows that, then I would jeopardize his councel. Actually now that I have written that sentence, I realize that through out my past I have learned to not trust what everyone tells me and to go with my gut instinct. Could be because of my CSA and reprocussions......dunno.
Rarely will I feel that anyone on MS will attack me for my views(religious or not). I take advise for what it is worth. And from what I have experienced on this site so far has been very supportive and constructive. Even criticism I take.

Monkey, the Flower Unfolding

Monkey,

I am just a little older than you and I also have a young man that I am mentoring. He too is just a little less than 1/2 my age. He considers me his dad and I consider him my son. This is VERY healing to me, because I have never been married and of course have no children. I am at the age where the God-given desire to be a dad starts causing a hunger to be a father.

I would just encourage you to keep mentoring this young man, be a buddy and friend too. I think you'll find that both of you are blessed by the relationship and will encourage and edify one another.

I had a pastor that did a lot of teaching on how the church fails to connect older men with younger men, for discipling, fellowship and just being buddies. As he points out, we see Paul and Timothy and other older/younger men in the Bible that were very close. It's a definite need in the church today.

I agree with Castle here. For example, you don't get the guy who fixed your car's transmission to re-tile your bathroom.

Castle,

I have a view that is somewhere between yours and that of a hyper religious person. I believe there is a great deal of benefit to a therapist/counselor who uses Biblical counseling; However, anyone that deals with CSA and SSA as an entirely spiritual problem will be completely unsuccessful. Humans are comprised of body, soul and spirit. All three parts of the human must be dealt with, not just a spiritual thing. Biblical teaching on forgiveness and restitution have been a big help to me.

I would add to be equally skeptical of lay therapists. I went to one who told me that based on my having had sex with grown men when I was 13 to 16, after being abused by a man, that I was gay since I sought the sex. I am now 46 and recently was interviewed to enter a men's survivor group and the therapist also suggested based on my behavior that I am gay. He admitted he made a mistake, apologized and I told him that many men deal with SSA who were abused. I did not join that group.

Ed,

Good points about the lay therapist. I would agree that there is a definite bias with the secular therapist, as with many Christian therapist as well.

I think there is a difference between having SSA, and someone that is completely involved in the gay lifestyle. It seems that nearly every man with SSA has some deprivation of love, affection, attention and affirmation (plus in some cases abuse) from their fathers, and then it evolves into SSA because the grown man still has a legitimate need and hunger for those things from another man. In my case, there was a complete lack of those things from my father, plus he abused me too. This "father wound" set me (and most CSA victims) up to be a target for the perps. Perps look for wounded little boys, then "groom" them with the things they never got from their fathers.

Bottom line I guess, would to be skeptical of any therapist/counselor and ask questions before deciding if they can really deal with your specific issues and help. A good counselor is one that doesn't push you to compromise or ignore your religious beliefs and morals.

I'm totally on the same page with you and feel the same lack of male bonding created my SSA drive. I also have the experience that as that wound is healed, my SSA drive equally decreases and I can have my natural attraction to the opposite sex, for lack of a better word, arise.

For me, the sexual abuse by a man was partially due to my SSA which was due to the hurt caused by my humiliating, rejecting father. I was out of whack in my attraction to men and seeking to be seen and instead I was sexually abused in a way that felt pleasure which was incredibly confusing. I am untangling it all now and to read a post like your post, by a fellow victim, on the root causes of SSA, it gives me comfort.

EdfromNYC,

I am glad you found my previous post helpful. My father was humiliating and rejecting too. We needed to have our developing manhood affirmed by our fathers, and instead of that, they tore us down. No wonder we were left starved for these things from men.

I'm not sure about your religious persuasion, but there is a message here in video and audio format. It is given by a Christian who has a ministry to men with SSA; However, there is much here that any man with SSA can benefit from. It's a bit long, but well worth your time:
Elephant in the Pew: Same Sex Attraction

I will look at it but I am not religious and I make that statement after attending different churches. I am not anti-religious and can find helpful things in many different places so thank you.

I know much of the SSA movement is religiously based. Unfortunately, as much as it helps to have places to face and deal with SSA, I think it also hurts the potential helpfulness since many people can then simply disregard the underlying helpfulness of seeing SSA as a developmental disorder by allowing many to view it as intolerance as opposed to help. I tend toward the secular message that SSA is disordered thinking and can be helped in many ways but I understand that many believe and have the experience that religion can provide the solution.

Undefeated,
My wife and I have been married for 24 years and haven't been able to have kids. This breaks my heart every time I think about it. The lack of that male bonding or showing a good life for a child, because I felt my childhood was taken away. But I have always wanted to be a father. I had a good upbringing and relationship with my father. So I enjoy my time with younger ones. But I am not going to lie and say that the SSA isn't there. I kind of blame it on the CSA. But I know in my heart I would never want any of this CSA life to happen to a child. So I keep my feelings/urges to myself and try to think on the good side.
Thank you for the encouragements!

Monkey(Mark)
The Flower Unfolding

Ed,

Thank you for your honesty about this. I tend to dislike religion, because I view religion as being man-made. Humans think it's "all about us" and what nicey-nice things we can do to earn "brownie points" with God. I am not anti-God. I see that in the Bible, the message is that we need to humble ourselves, and come to God for forgiveness and justification. I suppose my CSA has a lot to do with this, because I hate arrogance. I was molested by arrogant men, including my father who was an arrogant jerk. My CSA also had a lot to do with what drove me away from man-made religion, to see what God really said in the Bible.

As for that message link I posted earlier, the part I think is very significant, would be the same rather someone is "religious" or not. The part about personality types of "sensitive boys" and "rough and tumble" boys and how they are affected by father neglect and father wounds is very significant. It has been extremely helpful for me to see that I can be sensitive and masculine. My perception of masculinity was messed up by my father and my perps. I used to believe that to be a man, a guy had to be a jerk, and I didn't want to be a jerk.

Ed, I am glad you are not anti-religious, or more specific not anti-God. It's so easy to be turned off by humans and their flaws. I try to remember that we all are deeply flawed and God stands on His own merit, not as viewed through the fog of human faults.

I am feeling a little guilty for hijacking Monkey's thread with an off-topic posting. I hope he will forgive me. No excuse, but I do have ADD and it's nearly impossible for me not to go off on a rabbit trail.

Monkey,

I owe you and apology for hijacking your thread with an off topic posting. I do hope you will forgive me.

I am so sorry about you being heartbroken about not having children. I understand this fully. I have never married and I am constantly heartbroken, because I never had children. In church, I see a man being affectionate with his children and I see how they look at him with love and respect and it nearly drives me to tears. I feel a huge hole in my soul.

I mentioned this earlier in this thread, but there is something that is helping me immensely. A few years ago, I started an online friendship with a kind young man, that is the right age to be my son. We've grown closer and closer and we have based most of our friendship on mutual faith. We've developed a father-son/mentoring relationship. This has been VERY healing for me and being a dad helps my masculinity. Mentoring a young man is very healing for both the younger and older man. I'd encourage you to continue developing the relationship with the young man you are mentoring, but be sure to keep it "above board."

I think there is a definite need for more Paul-Timothy relationships. It's vital for a younger man to relate to someone that has been a Christian and worked through life's struggles and for the older man it's healing to pass on his faith and things he values most in life.

I appreciate your apology to Monkey for going off-thread but I benefited from your so doing. I listened to that mp3 and it was amazing. It described me to a "T". I was that sensitive boy and all that he said is what I experienced and my CSA was the harmful touch that he talked about.

I am going to investigate this preacher further and contact him and his church about following up. Thank you so much for linking to that sermon.

Undefeated,
appology accepted....but I wasn't taken aback by any comment. Your experiences sound so much like mine. For a minute there I thought you were repeating my life. I am quick to tears as well when I see a father and son bonding.
The relationship my mentee and I have is a gift from God and one I cherish. Much like yours. But I have told him that I don't feel like a father to him. More of a big brother. Yet my mind feels like I am more his age and development in our faith and understanding of life issues.

Undefeafted,
I enjoy the off topic posts and links that are presented. I get off topic all the time. Sometimes I wonder if I have ADD because of my thought patterns. Jumping from topic to topic and not going back to the original subject. This happens to me as I communicate face to face with others.
My mentee and I are bad about doing this off topic thing. We could talk for hours and cover many subjects, even though that isn't why we met for coffee to talk about a certain subject.

Feel no guilt. I accept any communication. LOVING IT!