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#379176 - 12/12/11 08:49 PM Weird question about nightmares- may trigger
Logan Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/05/03
Posts: 1205
Loc: NY
It have been doing a lot of journaling lately to try and sort through my memories and let some stuff go.
Alot of the info comes from my Dreams/Nightmares and there are 3 types of them: The ones where it is like a flash back in the dream and I just relive something, The ones That are purely a conjured mental nightmare-but it is fictional and definitely not a memory, just a bad nightmare and then there are the ones where I am unsure if the content is a memory or not and when I write it out some of it seems to be alot like my worst memories, but I am unsure if it really happened.
I have discussed some one them, the details with my T and he is also unsure.
He tells not to focus on it too much but its really getting too me--I want to know if "so and so" happened or not and if not then why the hell is my mind conjuring up such horrible stuff???

Does this happen with anybody else, like you feel like some of your memories fall into a sorta grey area where you're unsure if it really happened that way or even happened at all.

Usually my worst ones involve me with other kids that were being abused in the pedo-rings that I was passed around in and brought to and forced to do kiddie Porn.
I don't wanna go into it more than that right now. I still feel extremely ashamed about those memories they are my worst cause it's not just me but other ppl are involved and its so easy to blame myself for it like I did for most of my life until I finally broke down and told my T about it and how that "proved" that I was guilty for the abuse because I "abused" other kids. Of Course it could not have been my fault all those years ago because I had no control over the situation and was just a kid myself for godsakes, but it felt like it was my fault my entire life until I let those one out.

Anyway, back to the main topic. Anybody else struggle with incomplete memories or not being able to desern if it is real or not?

-Logan

_________________________
"Terrible thing to live in Fear"-Shawshank Redemption
WOR Alumnus Hope Springs 2009
"Quite a thing to live in fear, this is what is means to be a slave"
-Blade Runner

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#379181 - 12/12/11 09:20 PM Re: Weird question about nightmares- may trigger [Re: Logan]
traveler Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/07/06
Posts: 3373
Loc: somewhere in Africa
Logan -
Sounds like you're working hard and making progress. Congrats on that.

Here's how I see it - Dreams and memories are 2 different things. Memories are what happened. Dreams are more about HOW we THINK and FEEL ABOUT what happened. Sometimes they overlap. In a dream there may be real and accurate details of an actual event mixed in with a bunch of more symbolic or imaginary stuff that didn't really happen. But those fantasy events or details may be a way of our minds and emotions communicating something to us that needs to be expressed in a different way because the factual memory is either too familiar or too painful or whatever for us to understand clearly. I try not to take my dreams too literally but to use them to interpret how my subconscious is dealing with the bona fide memories. I certainly don't want to add any unneccessary "new" events to my list of experiences unless I have to. But I do take the dreams as being "true" as far as they help me understand my real feelings.

Hope this isn't too obscure to make sense...

Regards,
Lee

_________________________
As my life goes on I believe somehow something's changed
Something deep inside...
I've been searchin so long to find an answer
Now I know my life has meaning
Now I see myself as I am, feeling very free...
When my tears have come to an end I will understand
What I left behind: a part of me. Chicago


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#379182 - 12/12/11 09:24 PM Re: Weird question about nightmares- may trigger [Re: Logan]
unhappycamper Offline


Registered: 10/21/11
Posts: 598
Loc: VA
Originally Posted By: Logan
Anybody else struggle with incomplete memories or not being able to desern if it is real or not?

-Logan


Yeah, my memories from the time of CSA (whether related or not) are few and fragmentary, and all the flashbacks have done is fill in a few gruesome details. The FBs also supplanted a "screen memory" I apparently had concocted (and told myself for 35 years) concerning what the perv did on that one particularly nasty occasion. But when the FBs hit, I had no doubt that they were true.

I haven't had many dreams or nightmares (that I recall) concerning the CSA--maybe just two or three. One was just kind of a frozen image of a room in a building at the summer camp where the CSA occurred. The most recent was a few weeks ago, a nightmare about being pinned down and circumcised--which after all was my first sexual experience, when I was about a day old. It differed from the second experience (rape and attempted murder at age 6) in that I was face-up the first time rather than face-down, the first perp used a knife rather than his penis, and the first episode left a visible scar.

So that's way more than you wanted to know, but that's the kind of fragmented CSA-related dreams and memories I've been trying to cope with. Peace for now!

John


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#379214 - 12/13/11 01:11 AM Re: Weird question about nightmares- may trigger [Re: Logan]
phoenix321 Offline


Registered: 09/26/11
Posts: 912
Loc: USA, FL
Yes, I did. I was three and half when it happened. Just have thoughts and feel physical things on it and not much else. What's worse is those close to you not believing it. That happened to me. frown

The nightmares are a validation of what happened. That makes sense to me. Your mind might fill in the blanks but that doesn't make it untrue.

_________________________
Phoenix

A guy opens the front door and sees a snail on his doorstep. He picks up the snail and throws it across the street in a neighbor's yard. A year later, the guy opens the front door and the same snail is on his doorstep. The snail says, "What the f*ck was that about?"

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#379266 - 12/13/11 11:56 AM Re: Weird question about nightmares- may trigger [Re: phoenix321]
Sailor John Offline


Registered: 10/04/11
Posts: 307
Loc: Newfoundland & Labrador
Hi Logan,

My first memory was caused by a TV documentary about the orphanage (RC) when they showed the swimming pool which is where the abuse started and almost immediatly moved to the church. I knew right then in my subconscious why I acted like I did (booze, hookers for sex, etc.)

I never knew it, but only after I disclosed to some of my siblings, I found out that at least 3 of us had been abused by the same perp (our sperm provider) and they were keeping an eye on me. They wanted me to recognize it on my own way when I was ready. My therapist also said it wouldn't come out and would stay in my unconscious mind until I was ready to disclose. Same with you I think: you are still fighting parts of the abuse that you suffered that are trying to get out now.

I hardly ever have dreams that I remember but I think that now I am having dreams I don't remember because there are days where I wake up at then have to take a nap 2 or 3 times during the day and the sheets are all over the bed by the tossing and turning. I also have a flashback where I'm not able process it. I have a feeling what it is and it's related to my abuse.

You are not alone in your feelings; shame, embarassment and blaming yourself, etc; we all go through them in one form or another. Remember that you are NOT TO BLAME in any way, shape or form: NOT in any way. We did what we had to in the circumstances we were in. These feelings are the garbage left by perps and unfortunatly we are left to get rid of it even though we did nothing to do with getting it.

Good luck with this; you will conquer this.

_________________________
I will mourn the teenager I never was and strive to make that dot of light way out in the far reaches of the end of the tunnel turn into a bright sun.

WE ARE NOT VICTIMS. WE ARE THE SURVIVORS!!!

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#379277 - 12/13/11 01:43 PM Re: Weird question about nightmares- may trigger [Re: Logan]
Chase Eric Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/25/10
Posts: 1307
Hi, Logan -

First of all, I don't think I have ever addressed you in this forum, but I have read some of your posts and am honored to know you and count you as a friend.

Since this forum is about shared experience, I hope you'll allow me to share my own experience with you - I think that is what you are asking - and perhaps it may offer you an insight. I think I walked a path similar to the one you are on now.

As far as dreams and memories, time tends to blur the boundaries. When I look back at my own memories, it is frustrating that so much seems elusive and lost in the fog. I used to have dreams that the adults I knew and even my friends would be standing in line behind my real perp, waiting a turn. What a nightmare - and I thank the heavens that I never confused THAT with reality. I am quite certain nothing like that ever happened. But I think I now understand why I dreamt it.

When my perp was caught molesting the little girls in the neighborhood, I felt incredible shame that I was also his "victim" (my general "intro/story" can be read by clicking "Eric" in my signature). My mom had me sit on a bar stool in our basement. My feet dangled as I kicked at the air, studying the fibers on the shag rug beneath us that held all my secrets. She told me that my big "friend" was just caught "touching" the girls in the neighborhood. I squirmed. She then asked, "Did you do anything with him?"

My answer mustered up all the maturity of my 13 years, then divided it in half. "Well... maybe just a little... just to see why he did it..." God, I thought - like she's really going to buy THAT!

But be careful what you wish for. She did. My mom looked at me and essentially said, "Fine." And that was that. Nothing else was discussed about it. It was never again mentioned. Ever again.

And so my perp was almost turned into the police, but instead released with a stern and powerful warning to stay away from the little girls. But no such warning was extended to include me - in fact I was encouraged to "help him through" his difficulties. I was 13, he was 15 or 16. And I felt like I was just sacrificed. Surely they KNEW - I flat told my mom! Maybe I was so tarnished and filthy that they just sent me back to being his dirty little outlet.

No wonder I had those dreams, Logan! They may not have been REALLY standing line waiting to take a turn on me like my perp did at a now renewed feverish frequency, but they might as well have been.

I share that because I think my dreams told me something I needed to listen to. Yours may be telling you that as well. In fact, when you say "He tells not to focus on it too much but its really getting too me," my thought is perhaps you should trust that instinct. That statement tells me much.

This is not a therapy-guided conclusion on my part. I figured it out on my own, and still can't say for certain if the conclusions are truly correct. But one thing I did learn in therapy is to trust myself. This whole post falls under that premise.

There is a motivational saying, "Go in the direction of your dreams." I wonder if that is true with recovery as well. Perhaps we should trust those deep limbic thoughts that visit us in our slumber. We don't need to figure it all out at once. But my hunch is to ponder it. Don't be afraid to venture towards the uncomfortable thoughts they may lead to. I'm NOT a therapist or counselor - only a co-survivor like you. My first instinct was to RUN from my dreams. Only when I stood my ground and faced those demons head on did I see those inescapable connections traced through the fog...

_________________________



Click my pic to see why I'm here

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#379360 - 12/13/11 10:27 PM Re: Weird question about nightmares- may trigger [Re: Chase Eric]
Logan Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/05/03
Posts: 1205
Loc: NY
Fuck me!!
I just wrote a HUGE reply to all of you and my internet disconected.
I am way way way to frustrated ted now to try to replace it so let me respone by just saying thanks to all of you for replying it means a great deal to me and I appeciated it all so very much!

_________________________
"Terrible thing to live in Fear"-Shawshank Redemption
WOR Alumnus Hope Springs 2009
"Quite a thing to live in fear, this is what is means to be a slave"
-Blade Runner

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#379384 - 12/14/11 12:44 AM Re: Weird question about nightmares- may trigger [Re: Logan]
1islandboy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 858
Loc: washington
Actually, I think one can also struggle with complete memories.

I believe the term is called derealization...

For sure it screws with your head...

The "Mad Hatter" was the sanest of them all...


Don't Drink the Water (Dave Mathews Band)

island

_________________________
Rise above the storm and you will find the sunshine ~ M.F. Fernandez

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#379508 - 12/14/11 10:26 PM Re: Weird question about nightmares- may trigger [Re: Logan]
pufferfish Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6852
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Logan
It have been doing a lot of journaling lately to try and sort through my memories and let some stuff go.
A lot of the info comes from my Dreams/Nightmares and there are 3 types of them: The ones where it is like a flash back in the dream and I just relive something, The ones That are purely a conjured mental nightmare-but it is fictional and definitely not a memory, just a bad nightmare and then there are the ones where I am unsure if the content is a memory or not and when I write it out some of it seems to be alot like my worst memories, but I am unsure if it really happened.
I have discussed some one them, the details with my T and he is also unsure.

I have remembered several repetitions dreams that I used to have. I think I had these dreams before I recalled the abuse I experienced. I was always alone in all of these dreams. I saw myself being always alone in life. I was always struggling with some insurmountable problem. I never resolved the problem. Those were always true in those dreams.

1) I was at a summer camp setting. There were lots of huts where the campers stayed. The huts were primitive in structure. They may have been log cabins. There was a huge green lawn with a few scattered trees. There were people but I couldn't find them and they couldn't see me. I'm not sure but the other people might have been other boys. I was looking, looking, looking for the people. I looked in the huts. Nothing. There was a main building. When I approached the main building then the whole scene would cease.

2) I was approaching a building through the forest. I was all alone. The building was a simple structure like the house that Little Red Riding Hood's grandmother lived in. Everything became magenta color. I sometimes tried to get in the building. I'm not sure I was ever successful.

3) I was stranded. The place was multi-story building like the hospital that Bob was taken to in the movie What About Bob. (this was long before the movie). There were loads of cars with people in them, driving away from the building. I was invisible to them. I was not able to escape.

4) I was trying to reach a destination. I was never sure what my destination was and I could never reach it. I was at the train station trying to catch the elevated train. (these trains were like the elevated commuter trains found in Philadelphia and New York). I had to have a transfer pass to go from one train to another at the next stop. Sometimes I would catch the next train and then I would be unable to change to the connecting train. There were criss-crossing trains going at high speed and I was unable to board any of them. Then the destination vanished.

Quote:

He tells not to focus on it too much but its really getting too me--I want to know if "so and so" happened or not and if not then why the hell is my mind conjuring up such horrible stuff???

Does this happen with anybody else, like you feel like some of your memories fall into a sorta grey area where you're unsure if it really happened that way or even happened at all.


I think all the 4 dreams were symbolic of how I felt as a boy and as a young man. They may be perfectionistic and schizoid.

Quote:

Usually my worst ones involve me with other kids that were being abused in the pedo-rings that I was passed around in and brought to and forced to do kiddie Porn.


I know of others who had this plight.
Quote:

I don't wanna go into it more than that right now. I still feel extremely ashamed about those memories they are my worst cause it's not just me but other ppl are involved and its so easy to blame myself for it like I did for most of my life until I finally broke down and told my T about it and how that "proved" that I was guilty for the abuse because I "abused" other kids. Of Course it could not have been my fault all those years ago because I had no control over the situation and was just a kid myself for godsakes, but it felt like it was my fault my entire life until I let those one out.

Anyway, back to the main topic. Anybody else struggle with incomplete memories or not being able to desern if it is real or not?

-Logan


I think the pedos- knew what they were doing in that they tried to make us feel responsible for what happened. They tried to make us believe it was our fault. They tried to make us feel as though what we were in was inescapable.

Puffer


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#379864 - 12/17/11 05:15 PM Re: Weird question about nightmares- may trigger [Re: pufferfish]
Chase Eric Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/25/10
Posts: 1307
Hi, Logan -

Just checking in with you. Any new insights on this topic? I find it fascinating, since I tend to respect my dreams as well.

_________________________



Click my pic to see why I'm here

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