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#378271 - 12/05/11 01:39 PM why
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denver, CO
I'm so tired of kicking myself, but I did it again. Trusted a therapist & got burned. After four flippin' years no less. SIGH. And here I am, right back where I was. Or less. feels like less.
Seriously starting to doubt my ability to keep myself in the recovery zone. Was being a victim that much different than where I am now? Or maybe that's it. I'm still a victim.

WHY do I do this? Will I EVER learn???


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#378274 - 12/05/11 02:23 PM Re: why [Re: MarkK]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6376
Loc: 2.5 NATO Nations
Mark. This sound really really bad. Im not sure what happened, but it sounds like the money line here is:

Trusted a T and got burned. THAT is ultra discouraging.

A lot of us trust and forgive and trust and get burned and trust...
I know I do.

Lemme ask you this...was this a BETRAYAL on the part of the T?

_________________________
Jesus Loves The Hell Outta Me!

Still's Globs

New Video

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#378279 - 12/05/11 02:56 PM Re: why [Re: Still]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denver, CO
"betrayal" ... in the purely technical/legal realm, no - I can't say so. Does it feel like betrayal? Absolutely. Let's see if I can make this any less muddy........

I was in session with him, worse day than normal - maybe the time of year, dunno-but anyhoo, I made a statement about sometimes feeling I was going crazy and wanted to just go screaming at people (family mostly) that I'm who I am and if they don't like it, tough and if I say I was abused it's cuz I WAS ABUSED, yadda yadda yadda .. anyhoo - he started to say "I dare you..." I dunno if he was going to say more or not because at that point I lost it. Stood up, threw the money in his face, and left. Bout an hour later he called my cell phone to "see if I was alright". I told him to go pound sand. He said if he didn't think I was "ok" he would have to call the authorities. Then I really lost it. I had promised never to do anything stupid without calling him. Not good enough - he had to know I was ok. I hung up on him.
The rest of the night went without too much trouble (other than I couldn't sleep - duh). BUT - at my next session he told me he HAD called the cops on me. Guess he forgot I had recently moved so they didn't get the right address for me - or they didn't believe him - but it was the fact that he tried to have me locked up.. So did he "betray" me? I feel he did. But ... I dunno. I'm so stupid anymore I wouldn't bet that I understand any of it right.
frown


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#378282 - 12/05/11 03:28 PM Re: why [Re: MarkK]
petercorbett Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/27/08
Posts: 2433
Loc: TEXAS
My, fraternal brother, MarkK.

A hard call to make if your T had betrayed you or not.

He called you to see if you were all right, and if he felt that you were not in a "proper" frame of mind then he did call the cops on you.

In MY OPINION, I think that he was really worried that you were very capable (in your frame of mind) of wanting to harm yourself. As such to have you "locked up."
I think that we all sort of promise our T that we wouldn't do anything stupid (harm ourselves) without calling them for help first.

But, it is your decision as to his motives. I just think that he was truly worried about you.

You are far from being stupid. You are in healing with all the pain & confusion associated with it.

My OPINION, I do not think that he had betrayed you. If he did nothing in trying to "save" you, then I would call that betrayal.

Wishing you well in healing, my fraternal brother, MarkK.

"I will take that lost boys hand, and I will lead him from the depths of darkness, into the sunshine, forever into eternity." As he is me.

Pete..Irishmoose.

_________________________
Working Boys' Home 10-14 yrs old, grades 5-8. 1949-1953
____________________________________________________________
A very humble alumni of the WOR Dahlonega, GA.
May 15-17 2009, Alta, Sep. 2009. Sequoia, 2010.
Hope Springs, 2010.


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#378286 - 12/05/11 03:35 PM Re: why [Re: petercorbett]
Magellan Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/31/10
Posts: 1392
Loc: California
Wow what a hard situation to go through!

Something that is helping me immensely when I am concerned over someone elses' behavior with me, is I'm learning to take a second to ask myself the question "Did they mean well when they did this? Or did they mean to hurt me?"

If they meant well, then a lot of room is opened up for how I choose to respond. Did they make a mistake or misunderstand? Did I make a mistake or misunderstand their action? Lots and lots of room for thought, as opposed to reacting and just assuming they betrayed me.

I hope you work your way through this. I'm inclined to believe that your therapist was doing what he thought was the best thing to do with the information he thought he had.

D

_________________________
It's a heroes journey, and you are the hero.

Loving Kindness Meditation will dramatically improve your spirits; give it a try for just 3 days: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sz7cpV7ERsM

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#378291 - 12/05/11 03:52 PM Re: why [Re: Magellan]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denver, CO
So I email him and let him know I need time off. Just chill on the whole "recovery" bit for a while. He writes me back - including a form letter terminating our therapist/client relationship.

I ask for time off, he pulls the plug.

Somehow I don't see him all that interested in if I'm "ok" or in doing what's the "best thing".

And if after four years he can't trust me when I say I'll call before I do something stupid - then I've wasted my time.


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#378294 - 12/05/11 04:05 PM Re: why [Re: MarkK]
BDD Offline


Registered: 01/27/11
Posts: 55
Loc: PA, USA
Mark,
Just as I started my response you posted, but I'm still going to write it.

I've fired my T at least 3 times. Each time it was because of how I interrupted what he was saying. If he had said to me "I dare you" I'm sure I would have finished his sentence in my head "I dare you because you won't because you are so___________" fill in the blank.

There is no way for me to know what your T meant. Yes, he may have been being a real jerk, or he may have been trying to nudge you in to an un-characteristic action.

But really all that matters now is that you take care of yourself. Can you stay connected here while you work this through?


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#378298 - 12/05/11 04:45 PM Re: why [Re: BDD]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denver, CO
well, as I see it - I didn't fire him, he quit me. He did nothing until I emailed and asked for time off - then he sent his goodbye form letter.
Though maybe I should have just fired him from the point where he came up with "I dare you". That alone proves he didn't know me at all, even after four years frown
As for staying connected here while I work this out... I don't see I have much choice. If I'm not connected somewhere, I have no chance.


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#378411 - 12/06/11 09:15 AM Re: why [Re: MarkK]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denver, CO
so I get an email from him. Is it 'ok' for my ex-therapist to contact me after sending me the quit form letter??? Anyhoo - I told him to go away ... I just didn't say it so nicely.
should I regret that action too?


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#378434 - 12/06/11 11:57 AM Re: why [Re: MarkK]
JaapVisser Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 57
Loc: The Netherlands
Ouch...nasty situation. Sounds maybe obvious, but maybe try to make an appointment to visit him. Often things are not well disclosed on the phone or via mail (I am quite horrible at that), but maybe it helps to talk face to face. Often that makes a conversation easier since it are not just words, but the whole package that comes with a conversation. Maybe even if it was just to disclose everything and if the therapy ends with him then at least you tried to make the ending somehow acceptable?

Just a thought.

Good luck!




Edited by JaapVisser (12/06/11 11:58 AM)
_________________________
Music expresses that which cannot be said and on which it is impossible to be silent.

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#378564 - 12/07/11 12:12 PM Re: why [Re: JaapVisser]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denver, CO
Point being he stopped our relationship - what right does he have to email me?

_________________________
the story
    https://1in6.org/men/bristlecone/mark-krueger/

Kirkridge - October 2008
Alta - September 2012
Alta - September 2013

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#378566 - 12/07/11 12:44 PM Re: why [Re: JaapVisser]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6376
Loc: 2.5 NATO Nations
Oh Man...

This truly sucks. Regardless of what label we put on any of it...I think he WAY over-stepped boundaries and abandoned "good practice" by the off-the-cuff challenge of "I dare you." THAT was heinous!

One place I get pissed-off if people "go there," is when I'm blaming myself for certain things and they ask "what if it were your son...would you be blaming him right now?" I think that's a cheap stab with a cheap knife in an area of my heart that NO PERSON has any right to touch!

And Mark...I feel like you got stabbed similarly!

_________________________
Jesus Loves The Hell Outta Me!

Still's Globs

New Video

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#378567 - 12/07/11 12:49 PM Re: why [Re: Still]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denver, CO
Robbie - I agree. If my T had EVER asked the "what if it were your son" question I would have had to sit on my hands. Wow. Just thinking about it raises my blood pressure!

Stabbed is a good word. Though in my response to his email I said I felt mentally raped.


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#378574 - 12/07/11 02:02 PM Re: why [Re: MarkK]
unhappycamper Offline


Registered: 10/21/11
Posts: 592
Loc: VA
And ain't it a pisser when a T demands that you "promise" you will or won't do something? When does the client get HIS guarantee?

John


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#378596 - 12/07/11 04:49 PM Re: why [Re: unhappycamper]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denver, CO
When a T says upfront "You will hate me before we're done"
............


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#378597 - 12/07/11 04:51 PM Re: why [Re: MarkK]
Magellan Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/31/10
Posts: 1392
Loc: California
If a therapist ever said that to me, I'd fire him on the spot.

That's no way to build trust with a client. Guy should lose his license.

D

Originally Posted By: MarkK
When a T says upfront "You will hate me before we're done"
............


_________________________
It's a heroes journey, and you are the hero.

Loving Kindness Meditation will dramatically improve your spirits; give it a try for just 3 days: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sz7cpV7ERsM

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#378718 - 12/08/11 03:15 PM Re: why [Re: Magellan]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denver, CO
I appreciate all the support - it's nice to know I'm not totally crazy with how I responded!

_________________________
the story
    https://1in6.org/men/bristlecone/mark-krueger/

Kirkridge - October 2008
Alta - September 2012
Alta - September 2013

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#379147 - 12/12/11 03:35 PM Re: why [Re: JaapVisser]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denver, CO
absolutely flippin amazing.
he wrote back
AGAIN

i'm trying to figure out how i can be so dense that i can't get someone to understand that STOP means STOP.

absolutely flippin amazing

frown


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#379185 - 12/12/11 09:50 PM Re: why [Re: MarkK]
FormerTexan Offline
Site Administrator
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 09/12/04
Posts: 11028
Loc: Denver, CO
An amazing lack of boundaries on his part.

_________________________
List of things ain't nobody got time for:

1. That


If I could meet myself as a boy...

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#379248 - 12/13/11 10:49 AM Re: why [Re: FormerTexan]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denver, CO
lack of boundaries ....
yesah - I guess that's one way to look at it. Maybe even the "best" way. I mean - he's a T, right? No way he could have been out to cause hurt or harm. He just overstepped his boundaries. But I'm sure I drove him to it... it was surely my fault in the first place.


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#379257 - 12/13/11 11:23 AM Re: why [Re: MarkK]
Castle Offline


Registered: 10/03/09
Posts: 727
Loc: NJ
Without discussing this particular situation....I know a well known T who will tell you he is happy if your uncomfortable as long as your safe...cause when were a bit uncomfortable some real work can be done....but SAFETY is paramount.

_________________________

My posts can self destruct at any time..read them while you can.

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#379261 - 12/13/11 11:32 AM Re: why [Re: Castle]
KMCINVA Offline
Greeter
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 1570
My T says the same--feeling safe is the most important aspect for opening up and healing. It was not until I felt safe that I could talk of what happened to me. When feeling unsafe, I guess it is like the child who was feeling unsafe with the perpetrator.


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#379267 - 12/13/11 12:00 PM Re: why [Re: KMCINVA]
Magellan Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/31/10
Posts: 1392
Loc: California
Mark,

I think your last note touches on something significant in all of us as survivors. It's about boundaries, and how ours have been perverted.

"He just overstepped his boundaries. But I'm sure I drove him to it... it was surely my fault in the first place."

I don't think this is a fair conclusion to make. It is often the conclusion most of us make when other people do things that are disappointing. I certainly take responsibilty for other people's behavior.

This, to me, is a symptom of bad boundaries (which we have). I'm not saying the therapist did NOT exhibit bad boundaries. They certainly DID by emailing you again. However, you blaming yourself for THEIR behavior is also a signature of a bad boundary.

A healthy boundary, I'm beginning to see, consists of allowing people to be who they are, without my feeling responsible for ANY of it. It's difficult to imagine, but once the threads of this reality started creeping into my consciousness, it's amazing how big the world starts to become, as well as realizing the freedom in how I can choose to respond to what happens around me.

Sorry if this comes off a little too abstract. I just woke up, it's my 40th birthday, and I'm looking forward to exploring this big new world, where I am not to blame for anything.

D

_________________________
It's a heroes journey, and you are the hero.

Loving Kindness Meditation will dramatically improve your spirits; give it a try for just 3 days: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sz7cpV7ERsM

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#379437 - 12/14/11 01:46 PM Re: why [Re: Magellan]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denver, CO
well, happy birthday
not too abstract - though I don't completely agree - you make good points.
I guess my biggest hurdle now is feeling safe again


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#379444 - 12/14/11 03:39 PM Re: why [Re: MarkK]
Magellan Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/31/10
Posts: 1392
Loc: California
Mark,

I think that you are right - feeling safe is tantamount to recovery. I do hope you find a therapist who is qualified to work with CSA issues in men.

You deserve a spectacular recovery.

D

_________________________
It's a heroes journey, and you are the hero.

Loving Kindness Meditation will dramatically improve your spirits; give it a try for just 3 days: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sz7cpV7ERsM

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#379496 - 12/14/11 09:13 PM Re: why [Re: MarkK]
Survivinguy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/22/09
Posts: 310
Loc: Colorado
MarkK - having just read this thread, it really bothered me to see the last line in the thread read "surely my fault in the first place." I hope you were being sarcastic and don't in anyway think it was your fault.

You are the one doing the recovery work - having an emotional crisis or 'outburst' during recovery is guaranteed if you're really working hard and beginning to really explore your internal pain. If you're therapist goes from calling the cops, to sending you a termination letter, to stalking you via email long after you've said stop - there is NOTHING that's your fault.

It's not your fault the therapist didn't handle himself more appropriately. It's not your fault the therapist lacks any sense of boundaries after lines are so distinctly drawn. It's not your fault that because of his ineptitude, you need to find yourself a new therapist. You're not responsible for his actions. There is no shame here for you. The therapist should be ashamed of himself but just like your abusers, you don't deserve any shame or blame for the therapist's failures.

I'm sorry you're struggling with this - I had to terminate my very first therapist because during our first sessions she said she didn't believe in 'recovered' memories - I felt ashamed of myself for a while - thinking maybe my recovered memories were somehow false! Thankfully I had a couple survivor books and I kept on track with my recovery - deciding her skewed and limited perspective wasn't going to stop me from getting better.

Stay at it MarkK - it's your recovery that's most important.

_________________________
Survivinguy

============================================
I have to survive and I hope to thrive.

Alumni Dahlonega WoR May 2010
Alumni Sequoia WoR March 2012

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#379608 - 12/15/11 05:09 PM Re: why [Re: Survivinguy]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denver, CO
Originally Posted By: Survivinguy
It's not your fault that because of his ineptitude, you need to find yourself a new therapist.


...well, whether or not it's my fault - I don't think I need a new therapist. I think it's time I accepted my losses there and stayed FAR away from any new ones.

_________________________
the story
    https://1in6.org/men/bristlecone/mark-krueger/

Kirkridge - October 2008
Alta - September 2012
Alta - September 2013

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#379622 - 12/15/11 06:39 PM Re: why [Re: MarkK]
1lifenow Offline


Registered: 03/07/11
Posts: 393
Loc: west coast
Mark

you are entitled to do anything you feel is right for you. The best you can do is listen and trust that inner voice of inuition , there is no wrong or right answer.

My friend is a T, she said if there is "push back" from the patient, that's a healthy sign.

I have been through enuf T's to know that they are not all as capable, so dont feel like you have to stay where you are. at the same time don't let change scare you.

cognitive, psychodynamic, somatic experiencing, they are all different types. do your research, see which one fits best then call 3 diff T's. some will even let you meet no charge, they you can decide. Maybe you'll decide its all ok for now.

whatever the decision , second guessing yourself is just part of the same pattern you dont want to re-live. KNOW that you're doing the right thing.

good luck, keep us posted

cheers

grant

_________________________
The need for love lies at the very foundation of human existence. Dalai Lama

WoR Barrie 2011

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#379625 - 12/15/11 06:52 PM Re: why [Re: 1lifenow]
KMCINVA Offline
Greeter
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 1570
Mark

We all have doubts. I have gone to sleep hoping I would not wake but know I deserve better than what has happened. I could not control the abuse, but I can control what happens once I try to understand what happened. You have the ability to accept what happened to you and to understand why you acted the way you did, now you must accept and not let those around you set you back. Keep going and do not let anyone push you back. I fight it everyday--sometimes better than other days, but there are those who do not want you to succeed because they will have to admit their own culpability. Stay strong, fight you deserve it


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#380063 - 12/19/11 02:28 PM Re: why [Re: KMCINVA]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denver, CO
Good words - VERY hard to accept. "KNOW that you're doing the right thing" (1lifenow) and "...you deserve it" (KMCINVA) - they're about as hard for me to hear as it would be for me to say. How do you get to where you believe, really believe, you're worth it?

Better yet, how do i get to the ;point where i no longer believe the abuse was all my fault?


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