why?


there is a movie i have called big eden. the director's cut is interesting to hear because he claimed to purposely removed "hate" from the town this takes place. not to say he removed anger, disappointment, struggle, self-questioning, but he just wanted to see what happens with characters when their fundamental identity is no longer a ''societal flaw'' or a cultural ''rally for condemnation and judgement.'' what i found most interesting from the film is that the conflicted/hurt guys are the two gay men....not anyone else.

when i think about it off-film, isn't it by in large the same in real life? now, true there are exceptions and my employer is one of them, but isn't the case more often then not with people we know and those we meet "who cares if you are gay?"


as for your question "Could the male-on-male rape of a GAY victim hold dynamics of trauma fundamentally different than those of a HETEROSEXUAL victim?"

well, why not? or, why wouldn't it be more akin to male-to-female rape? meaning, if we are inherently attracted to men that concept is predetermined just as the so-called straight women are aligned to engage with a male. i would assume that gay men and women both --if they want a relationship with a man, the same gender responsible for raping them-- they have to revisit not just general relationship skills and trust with other men but also intimacy, discovery, trust as in love, and the emotional bonding that love can bring, no?

i could easily say.... i'd be so much better off with a woman, because in general no woman has ever hurt me and certainly no woman has ever destroyed my trust. doubt a woman would be happy with me though, because my attraction is towards men.

eric, thought about your question all weekend and so i offer this post>

(((((jeff)))))

I totally get what you say about the faceless men attached to those experiences. I get it about how the CSA did make it a different path from what could have been a innocent and beautiful path to something meaningful. In that sense you hit the nail on the head. BUT single/ damaged for life?!? Not on your life.

Yes we have be altered, and changed but it's injured not damaged. Eric asked how you can uncook an egg? That would be true if we were eggs. We can alter the course, we have that abililty - we are not cooked. The protein has been changed but not de-natured. New neuropathways are just begging to be formed as long as we live and breath.

I can understand how you can come to that sense of futility, but I have a friend who feels the same and he was not abused. He struggles with the superficiality of gay life. He tends to put himself in the same situation by going after and giving his heart to guys that are not on the same page. He wants a relationship but I have seen how he doesnt really give off the right vibe. Sort of like when a hot chick wears spiked boots. They are not screaming "looking for domestic bliss" .

We continue to do what we can to just be us, as authentically as possible. We are who we are today as the sum of all our experiences. For sure the CSA is part of the story, but its not the whole story and it doesn't have to bleed into every story. Injured and wounded yes. But not so damaged that the bleeding can't stop.

cheers

grant

i don't disagree with the premise of your post grant. i'm adding --what i think-- is another dimension to the larger problem.

an issue, perhaps, society in general doesn't like to talk about or think about or dare i say ever experience: ''life alone.'' we favor and even encourage partnering up, correct? if you aren't dating, good grief even just bagging someone in some circles, on a regular basis you just don't cut it in today's world.... i'm generalizing, but it is what i've come to understand. if we can't even attract a simple date, what does that say about everything else in our personality? what other flaws lurk?

and this isn't about "having to have someone to be whole" or being unhappy alone - i think we all understand the difference for being happy alone is a key to being happy with someone else too.

so, how did someone who does have his act together get to a stage of "life alone"? well, there is the larger problem to solve. i'm saying that sexual abuse may have played a MUCH larger role in this, for me, than i previously thought.

and there are multiple caveats. right? its not just one time rape: its the rape, which led to a personal dilemma which festered and caused more trauma in my teens; which in turn cause bad decisions, which in turn created a life of chaos in my 20s -- at the height, i think, of when we acculturate with others in the gay community. 30s? well, when i was at that point people in the world around me were partnered. 40s? sadder state of affairs. lol.

but all fingers point to the rape -- not what the church, parents/family said about gays. its not even society's view on gays that makes me type what i have.

now, not possible for me to understand your friend's example without knowing him. but i can ask you this: what support have you given him in terms of creating a "vibe" -- or a more attractive vibe, which in turn helps him to be more attractive to a mate? if not you, what has the "gay culture" done to help him...?

harder question: what has the gay culture done to help...anyone with important issues? me? my answer is simple: "nothing," nothing at time of rape, nothing at time of recovery, nothing in the present when i need gay networking to help me with a job search before i lose the present one ''for being gay.'' lights are out in the gay department on helping others with real, genuine, life-surviving needs..... in my experience.

i do not view these issues as bleeding to death from a wound that healed decades ago. it is something else. i don't know the appropriate word/phrase that captures the mood.

a sum of experiences - yes, perhaps, in part. and i think that sum has to be an exact figure - a matching figure - if you will with the acceptable norms, whatever they are! vary from the "norm" - and ye shall live life alone.

I think it is like gaydar.

Its funny, I sort of like that de>